Males and Females

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Adahn]
Sandy, what are the odds that a woman will be raped in her lifetime? 1 in 4, according to statistics. [/QUOTE]

Seriously, where do you get those numbers?! Are you saying that one out of every four women gets raped or what?

Nevertheless, female sex seems to be quite an unfamiliar thing to you, if your concept of womanhood includes dresses and soap operas and low self-esteem and fragile bodies. Trust me, most of the women at least in the western cultures fall far from those characteristics.

It's kind of sweet that you cling onto the traditional, chivalrous attitude that women are something that need physical (and economical?) protection from men, but honestly, they can manage to live quite well without men, as well. ;)

You said yourself that you think both sexes are equal, but in many things you've said, you've shown the exact opposite.

And [I]please[/I], I ask you again, stop making comparisons of who would beat up who! In modern society it's just as illegal to hit a man as it is to hit a woman, for whatever reason - if it were otherwise, we couldn't talk about equality.

[Derald]

[FONT=Lucida Console][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkRed]...well, who couldn't see these arguments coming?

To the point. It is indeed fightening, to say the least, that in nature there are organisms in which one gender has comepletely made the other obsolete. Example: There is a species of praying mantis in which the female has made the male completely non-existent, and they reproduce by laying unfertilized eggs which hatch into more females. Now, due to the current conditions in the world, it worries me that such a situation will arise in the future. Because of these sociological ideals presented everywhere there will not really be much balance in the near future, instead I see constant power struggles that might end up like the mentioned praying mantis' situation.

Compassion for another is all it really takes. Forget about the standards set out by society. If you can find someone who cares for you then that's all that really matters.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

The overall differences between a man and a woman lie in the reproductive organs and the chromosomes, I think there's one other one I'm forgetting that also truly draws the line but for the life of me I just can't recall it. By reproductive organs I'm talking about the testes and the ovaries as well as the womb in the case of a woman, the most advanced surgeons in the field of gender change can create the appearance of the more obvious differences between a man and a woman, but cannot create these organs or change the chromosomes and that is what really separates a woman from a man who's had a gender change. That's the scientific definition of the differences, but we were asked what we considered the definition of our own gender to be.

In my own case I think that to be a true man, you must be a gentleman in all aspects of your life, and all your dealings with other people. You must strive to be the pinnacle of virtue and honour, even if some others would find such principles in modern times to be old fashioned. By nature I'm an old fashioned kind of man myself, while I'd have no problem with my wife going out working and holding down a full time job, if finances permitted it I would prefer that she stayed home and raised the children. I know some of you will immediately think sexist when you read that, but my mother works full time and myself and my siblings were raised by our maternal grandmother who lived with us and took care of us from birth, I've never known childminders or babysitters because I always had family taking care of me and it gave me great respect for the role mother and in my case grandmothers can have in a child's life.

As a man I think I would prefer sons as opposed to daughters, but this for me is down purely to the fact that I wouldn't be able to handle a daughter like my sister, and as a man I think it'd connect better with a son. I find it much easier to speak to my father about things than I do my mother, maybe it's a rapport, maybe it's down to the fact that we're both men but I know a lot of men want sons where as a lot of women want daughters. The ability to fight for and defend my family would be important to me, but the ability to fight full-stop wouldn't be important to me as a man, and nor would I consider it to be a trait men should consider important. Before humans formed civilizations and even after the formation of civilization men were hunters, not fighters, they took care of their families needs where as woman took care of the children and I think those roles are still important in the modern world. Call me sexist or old fashioned, but I'd like to take care of my wife and family because it's my job as a gentleman and as a man.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo]For me being a woman is almost meaningless. Other than the obvious differences between a man and a woman, which are a result of genetics.

I never really thought about my gender when deciding how I wanted to live my life or as a factor in choosing what I actually do. I feel like I am pretty capable in many roles regardless of what society thinks is more male dominated versus female dominated roles.

Mentally I never considered myself inferior or superior to men. You don?t have to be a genius to be smart, quite a bit of intelligence can come from just being educated.

It may have been true in the past, at least here in America, that women could not vote or hold much in the way of jobs, but that is no longer true. So I guess you could say being a woman to me means that if I so desire I can choose to be a mother. Which is probably why I never think about it as I have no desire to have children. [/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Adahn]
If you go to college, look at the women around you. Almost all of them are soft and fragile. How many of them could beat you in an arm-wrestling match?
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Indigo]That?s a bit of an assumption, as appearances do not reflect the whole truth. I fit the description of looking soft and fragile and yet I assure you I am more than capable of winning an arm-wrestling match against many of my guy friends. That?s like judging a book by it?s cover, it won?t tell you what?s really inside.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Adahn]
Sandy, what are the odds that a woman will be raped in her lifetime? 1 in 4, according to statistics. How many rapes that occur could be prevented if strength in women were socially acceptable? I don't even want to guess, because I hate rape with such a passion that learning society's role in its perpetuation would make of me a deviant bent on the destruction of our society. Physical strength/skill are effective preventative measures to sexual assault. How many stories of wife beatings would we have if women had the physical strength to stand up for themselves?
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Indigo]Actually quite often the real problem is that many women are caught by surprise when they are attacked. I can?t give you my source of statistics as I work for a crisis center for women and information of that nature is considered private, but quite a few of those who are attacked are hit before they even know someone is there.

If you were to let them know the attacker is coming, how many do you think would fight back? And possibly win? It?s difficult to fight back when the attacker has the upper hand by either hitting you hard enough to nearly knock you out or if they pin you down so it would require greater strength than a normal to wiggle free. For example by throwing a net over you, your movements are restricted preventing you from using your full strength properly. Most would be rapists are cowards who strike before you even know they are there.

I assure you many do fight back and win in spite of the surprise factor involved. I dealt with a case earlier this year where the woman managed to not only take the knife from the attacker but when she got done beating him up for attacking her in the first place, he had to be taken to the hospital. Being attacked without waring is not a true representation of how strong a woman is as it is quite often not an equal fight due to the fact that they are being attacked without warning. [/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]
By nature I'm an old fashioned kind of man myself, while I'd have no problem with my wife going out working and holding down a full time job, if finances permitted it I would prefer that she stayed home and raised the children.

Before humans formed civilizations and even after the formation of civilization men were hunters, not fighters, they took care of their families needs where as woman took care of the children and I think those roles are still important in the modern world. Call me sexist or old fashioned, but I'd like to take care of my wife and family because it's my job as a gentleman and as a man.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Indigo]
I might call you old fashioned, but not sexist. It is one thing to say you would prefer that she stay home versus the true sexist who would expect it and demand that she stay home. Nothing wrong with being a gentleman in my opinion I think you state it quite nicely.[/COLOR]

[Adahn]

[QUOTE=indifference][color=Indigo][/color]
[color=Indigo]That?s a bit of an assumption, as appearances do not reflect the whole truth. I fit the description of looking soft and fragile and yet I assure you I am more than capable of winning an arm-wrestling match against many of my guy friends. That?s like judging a book by it?s cover, it won?t tell you what?s really inside.[/color][/QUOTE]
I understand that I'm making an assumption, and I didn't say all women I see are weak. However, with our society's obsession with thinness, many, many of the women in my college are quite thin. It's not natural to 'slim-down' like that. The result is that the majority of women I see are quite fragile. I don't say it to be condescending. I just hope that they don't find themselves in a situation where physical strength is necessary. Strength is just as important in trying to harm someone as it is in trying to protect or save someone.

[QUOTE=indifference]
[color=Indigo]Actually quite often the real problem is that many women are caught by surprise when they are attacked. I can?t give you my source of statistics as I work for a crisis center for women and information of that nature is considered private, but quite a few of those who are attacked are hit before they even know someone is there.[/color][color=Indigo]

If you were to let them know the attacker is coming, how many do you think would fight back? And possibly win? It?s difficult to fight back when the attacker has the upper hand by either hitting you hard enough to nearly knock you out or if they pin you down so it would require greater strength than a normal to wiggle free. For example by throwing a net over you, your movements are restricted preventing you from using your full strength properly. Most would be rapists are cowards who strike before you even know they are there.

I assure you many do fight back and win in spite of the surprise factor involved. I dealt with a case earlier this year where the woman managed to not only take the knife from the attacker but when she got done beating him up for attacking her in the first place, he had to be taken to the hospital. Being attacked without waring is not a true representation of how strong a woman is as it is quite often not an equal fight due to the fact that they are being attacked without warning. [/color]
[color=Indigo][/color][/QUOTE]
I got my statistic of '1 in 4' from a woman who works in the same place as you do, who also happens to be in my Sociology class. I hope that you can support that for me, since many people doubt my reasoning. I read an article written by a feminist who was attacked from behind, physically assaulted, raped, and left for dead. I know that in such a situation, in would be difficult to recover from the first blow, but I think a stronger body would have a better chance of resisting the concussive blow. I'm glad for the woman who turned on her attacker, and I wish all women were as capable as her.

Sandy, I'm really having trouble getting certain things through to you. I don't know if you're just being difficult, or if you truly don't understand.

[quote name='Sandy'] Seriously, where do you get those numbers?! Are you saying that one out of every four women gets raped or what?[/quote]
Ask indifference. I got my numbers from someone in her situation, and those numbers were supported by my professor.

[Quote=Sandy]
Nevertheless, female sex seems to be quite an unfamiliar thing to you, if your concept of womanhood includes dresses and soap operas and low self-esteem and fragile bodies. Trust me, most of the women at least in the western cultures fall far from those characteristics.[/Quote]
Was I describing womanhood? No. I was describing acts and mannerisms that are unsuitable for someone who needs to maintain a masculine identity. It is a coincidence (and one worth pondering) that to be masculine, one must distinguish oneself from everything considered feminine.

[Quote=Sandy]
It's kind of sweet that you cling onto the traditional, chivalrous attitude that women are something that need physical (and economical?) protection from men, but honestly, they can manage to live quite well without men, as well. ;)[/Quote]
You misunderstand me completely. I see the society that constructs women as helpless, and I am very strongly opposed to it. For example, in any ad featuring a man and a woman, the man is posed in a forceful manner, while the woman looks up at him innocently. Another example is that hurting women has grave social and legal consequences. Why is this so? Women are seen as helpless, unable to defend themselves, and weak. I don't say these things with pride in my voice. I want women to be stronger. I want them to be able to stand up for themselves. I know there are women who are strong, and I'm glad for them. I'm more concerned for those who are not.

[Quote=Sandy]
You said yourself that you think both sexes are equal, but in many things you've said, you've shown the exact opposite.[/Quote]
I think on average, men have a higher physical potential than men, because that is the only genetically dependent ability I can think of. You are saying here that I have shown how I think the sexes are unequal, correct? I think men and women, in all other areas, have equal potential. However, gender is socially constructed in such a way that the potential for the average woman is severely diminished.

I shouldn't have to tell you these things, Sandy. You know them to be true. I hope you can come to understand the world around you, because with your current perspective, I fear you will live your life in ignorance of some very important, relevant ideas.

As for the whole 'fighting' thing, you're just not getting it, and I'm not going to try any harder to explain it to you. So please, just drop it.

Stark, we both know why the girl never saves the boy. It's a good question to ask people to get them to think, though. It's the same reason Sleeping Beauty isn't Sleeping Handsome and Jasmine doesn't rescue Aladdin from the hourglass. Whether we like it or not, it is a part of our society. You can either accept it or try to change it. That's what I'm trying to do here, to help more people see what's going on around them. I don't claim to understand it completely, but I know enough to see it.

[Dagger]

[quote name='Adahn']Stark, we both know why the girl never saves the boy. It's a good question to ask people to get them to think, though. //snip// That's what I'm trying to do here, to help more people see what's going on around them.[/quote]
Or you could just get them to watch [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Girl_Utena][u]Revolutionary Girl Utena[/u][/url].

[quote][i]"Once upon a time, years and years ago... there was a little princess, and she was very sad, for her mother and father had died. Before the princess appeared a traveling prince riding upon a white horse. He had a regal bearing and a kind smile. The prince wrapped the princess in a rose-scented embrace and gently wiped the tears from her eyes.

'Little one,' he said, 'who bears up alone in such deep sorrow. Never lose that strength or nobility, even when you grow up. I give you this to remember this day. We will meet again. This ring will lead you to me, one day.'

Perhaps the ring the prince gave her was an engagement ring. This was all well and good, but so impressed was she by him that the princess vowed to become a prince herself one day. But was that really such a good idea?"[/i][/quote]

Similar polls have been held at the other anime forum I post at regularly. Interestingly, the female:male ratio there is somewhere in the realm of 3:4. I'm surprised that OB is so close to 1:1.

~Dagger~

[Brasil]

The way I see it, I'm more than willing to beat-up that wheelchair-bound, quadriplegic, asthmatic 4th grader girl because I can. Why shouldn't we?

I'd go as far as to highly recommend using McDonalds as a means to that end. Buy a Happy Meal, you can beat up that wheelchair-bound, quadriplegic, asthmatic 4th grader. Buy a Chicken McNugget meal and that female dwarf with the speech impediment is yours for the bashing. A Quarter-Pounder with Cheese will give you a decrepit and feeble retiree who just so happens to be wearing adult Depends, so you won't have to worry about them making a mess when you start throwing punches around.

It just makes sense, I think.

Targeting AmazonWoman: bad idea.

Pushing old ladies down staircases: good idea.

[center][i]Use discretion...[/i]
[i]when selecting your foe![/i]
[/center]

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=Adahn] It seems we have some Sociologists here, so I might as well go in more depth. In class, we just finished reading an article titled "Cultural dopes and she-devils" which is concerned with plastic surgery, calling it an 'idealogical dilemma'. The article is a very interesting Geertzian analysis of how women come to see themselves as 'not normal', and make themselves the 'exception', justifying their decision to alter their image at great pain to their body and self.

Also, you may find the videos/articles called 'killing us softly' interesting in the construction of feminine beauty through advertising.

I would be happy to discuss your understanding of femininity (or masculinity) based on what you have studied in Sociology class.[/QUOTE][SIZE=1]By Jean Killbourne I presume right? Yeah I've seen that film....

[quote name='Adahn']I see women as vulnerable because American society forces them to be vulnerable. [/quote]
And men arn't vulnerable to scrutiny right? Just the women? I suggest you watch the documentary film [i]"Tough Guise"[/i] just to see that men have an image of masculinity. Violence is considered the normal for guys, it's almost expected. If your not tough or violent apparently you get called a "***" or "not a real man". Men have to live up to the image of masculinity just like women have to live up to the image of beauty. (although its not as bad as women it's still an issue)

[quote name='Sandy]And seriously, quit that "fight for life" thing, people! Life isn't a videogame, no random man (or a woman) is going to come around the corner and just beat you up for no reason in the brought daylight! Okay, it [I]could[/I'] happen, but what are the odds, honestly?[/quote]
Try one out of a million. I agree.

[quote name='Dagger]Or you could just get them to watch [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Girl_Utena][u]Revolutionary Girl Utena[/u][/url']. [/quote]
Utena saves a girl named Anthy..not a boy...if I remember correctly? It's been a while since I've seen it. I get that you were trying to point out that she's masculine and feminine. [/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo][QUOTE=Adahn]I understand that I'm making an assumption, and I didn't say all women I see are weak. However, with our society's obsession with thinness, many, many of the women in my college are quite thin. It's not natural to 'slim-down' like that. The result is that the majority of women I see are quite fragile. I don't say it to be condescending. I just hope that they don't find themselves in a situation where physical strength is necessary. Strength is just as important in trying to harm someone as it is in trying to protect or save someone.


I got my statistic of '1 in 4' from a woman who works in the same place as you do, who also happens to be in my Sociology class. I hope that you can support that for me, since many people doubt my reasoning. I read an article written by a feminist who was attacked from behind, physically assaulted, raped, and left for dead. I know that in such a situation, in would be difficult to recover from the first blow, but I think a stronger body would have a better chance of resisting the concussive blow. I'm glad for the woman who turned on her attacker, and I wish all women were as capable as her.
[/QUOTE]

No need to worry as I know you were not trying to be condescending, I was only pointing out that for some of us that appearance is misleading. I know many of my guy friends are surprised by how strong I am.

As for the statistics, sadly it?s all too true. The reason I did not quote the exact numbers is like I said, it?s considered a breach of privacy. If I were caught handing out specific numbers on such an issue that I got from the center I would get in quite a bit of trouble as I agreed to keep the exact number and other information regarding victims confidential. I agreed with you regarding the 1 to 4 ratio you were referring to as it is quite accurate. At least in Utah. Nationally I believe the statistic is 1 in every 6 women. For America that is.

I can provide this link that has quite a bit more information regarding rape, including the fact that it is estimated that 10% of sexual assault victims are men. Again this information applies to America, I do not know what it is for other countries. So if you really are curious about it then go here: [URL=http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html][B][COLOR=Indigo]Statistics[/COLOR][/B][/URL]

I work at the women's crisis center as a volunteer as I am majoring in psychology with the intent to become a therapist who works with the assault victims when I graduate.
[/COLOR]

[Adahn]

[quote name='Pumpkin][size=1]And men arn't vulnerable to scrutiny right? Just the women? I suggest you watch the documentary film [i]"Tough Guise"[/i'] just to see that men have an image of masculinity. Violence is considered the normal for guys, it's almost expected. If your not tough or violent apparently you get called a "***" or "not a real man". Men have to live up to the image of masculinity just like women have to live up to the image of beauty. (although its not as bad as women it's still an issue) [/size][/quote]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]You are making an incorrect assumption of me, and one I have already addressed in my response to Red.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][Quote=Adahn]The overwhelming evidence gathered by sociologists supports the fact that aspects of femininity and masculinity are social requirements. For your benefit, I will attempt to describe it for you.

Throw away your masculinity. Back down from every confrontation. Take every insult you hear and don't return anything. Stop dressing the way boys dress. Stop talking the way boys talk. Start wearing dresses and start conversations with your friends about Soap Operas. Defy all the unwritten rules of masculinity, and tell me who you have become to our society.[/Quote][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]But, I have thought of another thing that is important to me as a man. As a man, I want to be able to protect the people I love.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Dagger, a while ago I read a long, interesting novel titled '[url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385246323/qid=1131031193/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-6787539-2004810?v=glance&s=books"]Raptor' [/url]where the protagonist was androgynous. It was...explicit in some areas, but very well-written and interesting. The main character played both roles equally, and his/her dual-nature was an essential part of the events that took place.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2]Brasil, you remind me of Maddox.[/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][/size][/font]

[Stark]

Thank you, Adahn, for the answer. Now I don't feel so ignored. :animeswea

As for the Utena bit--I don't recall any girls saving boys. Then again, I've only read a couple volumes of the manga (4-ish. I think) so maybe I missed something...

The answer? Point taken. You're right, and I don't agree with the image--hence the whole tomboyish role I try to manage. I'm not a feminist or anything, I only seek equality. I'd act upon it, but my actions are rather curtailed by my parents, considering that I am still a minor.

Also, don't worry about the understanding bit. No one has to know everything about any subject. That is why we are able to communicate, and able to share ideas with each other. Maybe then we all can come a bit closer to understanding, and maybe not be so opinionated about somethings.

[Dagger]

[quote name='Stark']As for the Utena bit--I don't recall any girls saving boys. Then again, I've only read a couple volumes of the manga (4-ish. I think) so maybe I missed something...[/quote]
I was referring to the anime rather than the manga (they're extremely different, so much so that I couldn't really bring myself to read much past the first volume of the manga).

Actually I didn't point to the series as just an instance of a girl being chivalrous. Girl-power picture books and so forth are quite in vogue nowadays--but the older fairy tales are what seem to hold the most power over children, which shouldn't be terribly surprising. Utena stands out because it's not just a shallow role-reversing, "girls can do anything boys can do" type of story. Those are a dime a dozen.

Utena, on the other hand, offers a much darker and more satirical examination of gender roles. Particularly noteworthy are the differences in how Utena & Anthy acquire and use power. Utena may cross-dress and defend girls the way a male is supposed to, and so forth, but at the same time she still secretly wants a romance with a prince. Anthy, who holds a very traditional female role--submissive, incredibly passive-aggressive, wielding power almost solely through her sexuality (and even then it's all very sordid and secretive and repressed)--simultaneously admires and despises Utena for her posing.

I could go on, but I'll stop there. My main point, or one of them, is that the issues with feminine roles in society stem as much from within women themselves as from outside forces (although the inner problems can probably find their origins in said outside forces, anyway).

~Dagger~

[Stark]

I see...thanks for the explanation, Dagger. It's just proof that Anime and Manga can be extremely different. I'll be sure to check into that sometime...once I get a real job. :animeswea

And you're right on that other point too--people do act upon their own self image. It's really the core to everything that person does, confirmation or denial of that image they hold.

But there's just so much pressure to conform anymore. I look around at the people at school and I see that they all look alike. I'm probably straying into a different topic here, but most teenage girls I see around are just cookie-cutter copies of each other. And vain and shallow to boot.

Stereotypical image there, reinforced by what is seen in movies. In particular the one with Lindasy Lohan...'Mean Girls' I think. Then it bounces back and the people see themselves that way only to have it reinforced once more by the media.

It's a bad cycle.

It's a little frightening to me. It also makes me think of Ayn Rand's book 'Anthem'. But, that's for a different conversation.

I'm not saying that I know anything. I'm only stating what I see. And what I see, for the most part, doesn't make me feel all fuzzy and warm and happy inside.

[Sara]

[quote name='Stark']Notice how it's always the 'damsel in distress' image you see in fairy tales and on cartoons. How come the girl never saves the boy? Hm?[/quote]When I was in first grade, I wrote a story about how I saved my cousin, who was being blown away with his kite. So [i]I[/i] was definitely off saving young men at an early age. :)

Oh, and [i]The Paper Bag Princess[/i] owns [i]Rapunzel[/i].

Anyway. Until possibly the last year, I've never considered myself feminine. I wasn't really a tomboy (not in the sense that my sister is), but the fact that I was female meant little more than having to deal with girls' PE (which was always stricter than boys' PE at my schools. We would have "units" and "tests" and they would play kickball every day) and five days of annoyance and paranoia every month.

I'd wear what I wanted to (although I often fought with my mom on the point of wearing dresses to church programs. Eventually, I got nice dress pants, and it ceased to be an issue.)

Right now, my tastes in clothing and color (I only recently discovered the color pink) are markedly more feminine than at any rememberable point in my life. I'm also dating, which coincided roughly with the change in taste, although not, I think, causally. I'm not physically strong, but this is because I'm a lazy butt who spends her days on the computer, [i]not[/i] because I'm female.

To me, [b]being female means[/b] being hyperaware of my surroundings when I'm out for a walk at night. It means always having something at hand (keys, a pointy pen, a rock) to hit someone with if I need to. It means being escorted to my car when I leave a friends' house late at night. It means staying in lighted, popular areas, and not always going where I will. It means I'll never hitchhike out to the coast. It means going crazy with wonder and worry when a friend does something inappropriate. It means beating myself up for not being assertive enough, and never being sure what's really okay anymore.

Frankly, it tends to piss me off.

[Panda]

I am not going to jump into the debate section of this discussion only add my 2 cents about what being female and male are in my eyes. Just my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree/disagree with me nor am I trying to convince everyone that my opinion is the "right" opinion.

I want to start with a bit of background on me. Growing up I was a tomboy. I did work on the farm with my older brother and dad. I could throw a mean dirt clod. Little green army men were more fun to play with than baby dolls. While all my girl friends were going to ballet class I was one of two girls in my Tae Kwon Do class. My brother, another boy and myself were the highest ranking students in the school. I could hold my own, many times doing better than the guys in the class.

I basically grew up with my parents letting me do what I wanted to do in terms of what toys and sports I wanted to play. I wasn't told that was "only for little boys". The image of women being weak and unable to do things on their own was annoying to me. Women can change the oil for the car and not be considered "manly". Equally as annoying is the image that men can't take care of children. The "Mr. Mom" image of the bumbling dad who feeds chili to the baby and can't change a diaper. Men are not stupid, they can care of kids and clean without destroying the house.

[b]What a man is to me.[/b] (Based off the guys in my life) Guys are basic creatures. They eat, sleep, work and play. They don't stress over physical appearances as much as women do. If their socks don't match or have a hole in the heel no biggie. If there is a problem they like to physically fix it.

[b]What being a woman means to me.[/b] Having boobs that boys like to look at. We are expected to want to have babies and love children (Mind you, I don't want kids yet get constant pressure from friends and family.). We read too much into things at times and over think issues. Like right now I am wondering how someone is going to take what I have posted and read more into it or twist it around to make it sound like I am being negative towards one of the genders. Meh.

In the end I think that both genders need to be appreciated for their differences.

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Sandy]
[B]Lunox[/B], you said that neither sex can live without each other. That's not exactly true, you are forgetting us sexual minorities. But I assume you meant they can't [I]exist[/I] without each other, which is very true - as of now, both male and female sexual cells are needed in order to conceive a child. ;) Maybe some scientific research in the future is able to bypass that, but probably not for a very long time.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkslateblue] No, I didn't mean we can't exist with each other, which is also true, but whatever. I really did mean we can't live without each other. Now, am I saying this as if it's a world-known fact? No, it's merely my opinion. Leaving out homosexuals and 'sexual minorities' (I don't understand what you mean by this... do you mean hermaphrodites?), I think men and women need each other on emotional and physical levels.

I can't really explain my reasoning with facts, but it's just my idea that men and women (heterosexual ones, at that) need each other's love. Yeah, call me a romantic, but it's what I believe. :][/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=Indigo']I might call you old fashioned, but not sexist. It is one thing to say you would prefer that she stay home versus the true sexist who would expect it and demand that she stay home. Nothing wrong with being a gentleman in my opinion I think you state it quite nicely.[/COLOR][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Thanks indifference, I've found in secondary/high school, especially certain classes with female teachers of a certain view voicing opinions such as mine can get you labelled as some kind of misogynist or dinosaur. Honestly if I thought I could take better care of the kids and do the housework I'd be happy to stay at home as a stay-at-home dad and let my wife be the main provider. It's only down to the fact that women often don't make the same as men in the same job that would make me more inclined to offer my wife the opportunity to raise the children, plus there's the whole bond the mother already has with the newborn. [/SIZE]

[Sage Kaley]

Hm, I gotta say I agree more with Red's opinions here but I'll give my own.

I don't think about my gender really. I am female but it's not a huge part of who I am. It has never made me want to be a nurse or a stay at home mom. I always wanted to be a singer or an archeologist actually. To me, when I think of being a girl, I just think it means a monthly reminder and babies. Oh and the time I was wrestling Nick and realized that I needed to start wearing a bra.

Thinking of what being a male means, I also don't really think of anything. Around here, girls and guys are equal enough that say, in a fight, it's a toss up based on the individual. See, in my opinion I really honestly wouldn't care if a guy watched soap operas and wore a dress. I just wouldn't. I've seen guys like that and it doesn't bother me.

If anything, I think the majority of the population leans more towards androgynous. I'm not saying there aren't differences but that the differences are more about the person and not the person's gender. A guy can like cars and not be 'manly' and a girl can wear a dress and not be 'girly'. Gender is a part of it but for most people it is not what defines them.