Gaming Morality in Gaming

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Before I start off I'm going to stress that this thread is not about what is acceptable morally in videogames, i.e. the sexual, language and violence content in Grand Theft Auto, if the thread should degenerate into such a debate I'm going to ask Mike to close the thread and that'll be the end of it.

Instead this thread is to deal with games that require you to make moral decisions in order to advance the storyline, i.e. whether you choose to be good or evil and the story continues based on those decisions. For those of you who don't get what I'm saying, and I'm not really sure if I've been very clear, I'm talking about games like Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 and Fable, there are probably other games which require the same decision making but these are the three I've encountered so far. In games like the above do you find that you can play either side of the moral line without any difficulty ? Or like my brother and I do you find it almost vexingly difficult to play one of the sides over the other, i.e. do you find being evil is far more difficult, or perhaps better put more unnatural to you than playing the good side ?

In my own case I do find being "on the Dark Side" to be much more difficult than being good and put simply it's down to the fact that I'm constantly wrestling with my conscience as I play which throws a spanner in the works ever time I have to make an "evil" decision. The only way I find I can play the Dark Side without having to question my every move is when I'm angry over something and annihilating those who will not submit to my will is something I find enjoyable, i.e. I have to be feeling malevolent before playing evil can become fluidic.

I recently bought Fable: The Lost Chapter, which incidentally I would advise anyone who enjoys RPGs to pick up as it is a very fun game despite two or three flaws. Immediately into the game your disposition is questioned by the very nature of the quests you are offered, you have the choice right from the start as a boy whether or not you want to be good or evil. Now right from the start I played as being a good guy because it was what came naturally, i.e. see a child being bullied by another child, stop to bully and help the small boy. After I had completed the game I decided to play as an evildoer and that same quest in the reverse became a very difficult choice, do I really want to hurt a small boy in order to further my own ends ?

Anyway enough of my philosophising, my question was and still is do you have problems playing one side of the moral line than the other or is it just a case that you?re not bothered because it?s just a game ?[/SIZE]

[Veritas]

[size=1][color=darkred]A game I've encountered where you had to make moral decisions is Arcanum. It's a RPG for the PC, its similar to Diablo but it is alot more open. [/color][/size]

[size=1][color=darkred]Anywho it really depends for me. A lot of the time I feel like obligated to be good, lots of time I just walk the like, but sometimes it feels so good to be evil. Like most of the time in Arcanum I choose the good options, but if someone disrespects me, I don't like them for whatever reason or they have something I want or need and am not able to get, I'll kill them. Sometimes I do it when I'm mad as well, it's a good stress releaver.[/color][/size]

[size=1][color=#8b0000]I've only played Fable for like 3 hours but I did alittle bad her and alittle good there. If one seemed easier than the other I'd do that, or if one seemed more enjoyable same there.[/color][/size]

[size=1][color=darkred]But I guess what I'm getting at is I try to do good for the most part but it isn't realistic to do no evil for me. Alot of time a little bit of evil can do a whole lot of good. It's alot funner when you do have these options though, it makes you think more and alot of the time you can act out your videogame frustrations.[/color][/size]
[size=1][color=#8b0000][/color][/size]
[size=1][color=#8b0000]I do feel sappish as the hero though, it always amazes me how everyone wants fame and glory but no one is willing to step up. They just take advantage of a poor willing hero.[/color][/size]

[BlueYoshi]

[color=darkred]I guess the question of being moral in a game really depends on what game you're playing. If I was gonna play KOTOR for the first time, I wouldn't care which side I was on, because it would all be new to me. Maybe after a couple of runs I'd start to think about it, but still, it wouldn't be on a moral basis... I'd just want to play on the side I liked best.

In games like Time Crisis and Crisis Zone you're penalised if you shoot an innocent bystander or whatever, so that stops you from doing so, but if that didn't happen then I'd probably shoot them anyway. Not because I'm immoral, but just for the hell of it. Because the opportunity is there.

The same kind of applies to GTA, in a way. Most of the time I've spent playing the games over the years I've gone on rampages against the police and the army, and doing missions for whomever. But I wouldn't go around killing ordinary people for no reason (unless it was San Andreas and I wanted to try a new move I learnt, but that's it), because it gets boring after a while. Maybe if I needed money I'd go cracking heads, but then there's the cheat. So no, I don't really care about being moral in video games.[/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Interesting thread. ... Most interesting. :p

Myself, when given moral choices in video games, I tend to go with what most closely matches my own personality. At least on my first time through the game. I don't necessarily stick to being "all good," or "all bad," but mostly the choices come out on the good side. 'Cause I'm (generally) a nice guy, you know?

I do, however, find it fun to roleplay a more evil character sometimes. In those situations I don't have any problem making the evil side choices because it's my character doing the actions, not me. Rob that old lady? Burn that building down? Kick [strike]that puppy?[/strike] Shin in the nads? No problem, if it's in my character's nature to do so. I may get into my characters pretty deep, but I'm still just roleplaying in a fantasy world, so I let the moral dilemmas stay in there.[/color]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=trebuchet ms]I usually don't even think about the morality of the character I'm playing. I just know that I hat eplaying as the 'silent hero.' I like it more when they build some personality for the character. Yet, at the same time, I was disgusted by Lloyd in Tales of Symphonia, his blatant stupidity ruined the game for me.

If I'm given the choice between good and evil in a game, I usually head down the evil path, just because that's what appeals to me the most. In NeverWinter Nights I chose Neutral Neutral and just played the game and ended up in Neutral Chaotic or something. It's been a while. Well, I liked that system, your actions and the things you say determine what your character does, the path the game takes, etc.

I'm sorry, my brain's fried from homework, so I really can't form a coherent post right now.[/font]

[Petie]

[left][font=Verdana][color=blue]I have a very similar view (more or less identical actually) to Desbreko in this case. I generally tend to end up playing both sides in a game which lets you choose your side.[/color][/font][/left]

[left][font=Verdana][color=blue]For instance, in Fable, while I never finished it (my friend only let me borrow it for an afternoon before he took it back - I still have to borrow it again), I played through the first time as purely (for the most part) good. I then planned on playing through a second time as evil. That's really just how I approach games like that.[/color][/font][/left]

[left][font=Verdana][color=blue]I guess the only moral issue I have in these types of cases is that when I have allies or even just townspeople, I usually don't like killing them for no reason (unless I'm playing through as purely evil). I'll only kill someone (in a game like Fable) if it is necessary when I'm playing through on the good side.[/color][/font][/left]

[left][font=Verdana][color=blue]Also, take Sonic Adventure 2. In order to complete the game, you had to play both sides all the way through. If I remember correctly, I played as the good side first and the bad side second. I liked playing as both sides though and the game was a lot of fun.[/color][/font][/left]

[Endymion]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][SIZE=1]KOTOR was a beautiful game, and probably my favorite rpg for the console. KOTOR 2 was alright, but in no way compared to its predecessor. Alright, enough comparison talk...The ability to make a choice within an rpg is great, choosing whether to do good or evil. Depending on how many choices of each you do, you can be either or neutral. KOTOR I found myself neutral for most of the game but turned to to dark side in the later stages of development. I completed the game and loved it. I didn't have to go out of my way to take the high road and be a pure hero, but it was less fulfilling, and I felt the evil aspect of the game was better. My brother picked up Fable. I got mixed reviews from friends and finally played it. I enjoyed growing up in the game and having most things affect my future. The child and the bully came up, and I couldn't let the child get hurt. I was compelled from that moment in the game I think to do good. [spoiler] Though in the arena...I did kill whisper as she annoyed me the whole game... [/spoiler] My brother thinks he's a dark sort of person on the other hand, helped beat up the kid, and went out of his way to do wrong deeds. He grew horns, had flies around him, etc. [spoiler] When the choice came up to either kill his own sister and get ultimate power or throw the dangerous power into the abyss...he struck her down. [/spoiler] After playing most of the game and not getting to that point, and not riding that path, I was like "Oh, no!" I told him I would take my blade and strike him down for doing it, but then he pointed out that he had the ultimate sword and could easily take me down. I guess it depends on the game. KOTOR...feelings, passion, the dark side for me. Fable... Fear not citizens, for I shall bring justice to the land![/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Endymion][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][SIZE=1]KOTOR was a beautiful game, and probably my favorite rpg for the console. KOTOR 2 was alright, but in no way compared to its predecessor. Alright, enough comparison talk...The ability to make a choice within an rpg is great, choosing whether to do good or evil. Depending on how many choices of each you do, you can be either or neutral. KOTOR I found myself neutral for most of the game but turned to to dark side in the later stages of development. I completed the game and loved it. I didn't have to go out of my way to take the high road and be a pure hero, but it was less fulfilling, and I felt the evil aspect of the game was better.[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]

[SIZE=1]KOTOR II wasn't half the game the original was, I know that people will bring up the fact that they had only fourteen months to create the game and that such a short amount of time wasn't enough to properly finish the game. But in all fairness you can't use that as an excuse for a game who's plot is weak right from the start, who's characters are not at all believable and who's storyline pretty much ignores a lot of what you accomplished in the previous game. It was an OK game I suppose, but I think the original is by far the superior game.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Endymion][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][SIZE=1]My brother picked up Fable. I got mixed reviews from friends and finally played it. I enjoyed growing up in the game and having most things affect my future. The child and the bully came up, and I couldn't let the child get hurt. I was compelled from that moment in the game I think to do good. [spoiler] Though in the arena...I did kill whisper as she annoyed me the whole game... [/spoiler] My brother thinks he's a dark sort of person on the other hand, helped beat up the kid, and went out of his way to do wrong deeds. He grew horns, had flies around him, etc.

[spoiler] When the choice came up to either kill his own sister and get ultimate power or throw the dangerous power into the abyss...he struck her down. [/spoiler] After playing most of the game and not getting to that point, and not riding that path, I was like "Oh, no!" I told him I would take my blade and strike him down for doing it, but then he pointed out that he had the ultimate sword and could easily take me down. I guess it depends on the game. KOTOR...feelings, passion, the dark side for me. Fable... Fear not citizens, for I shall bring justice to the land![/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I think Fable has that tendency to prompt people to be good because being evil has such a stigma to it, I know my brother who always plays the evil side of a game hated the horns and flies that came with being evil. [spoiler]And even though I had found Whisper to be trying at times, and her brother Thunder that impudent oaf to be thoroughly vexing I couldn't bring myself to take her life in the Arena.[/spoiler]

As I have [B]Fable: The Lost Chapters[/B] on PC I'm not sure what the differences are [spoiler]once you reach the stage of having killed Jack of Blade and have the option of claiming The Sword of Aeons. In TLC if you throw away the sword as I did, you're rewarded with Avo's Tear which is essentially the same sword which in terms of appearance is obviously the weapon of a hero.[/spoiler] And then of course there's all the added content in TLC which again probably changed the outcome between the two games. [/SIZE]

[Guest Ramen Hood]

While playing a Video Game that features Good and Evil sides, I useually play the game with the Good Side. Once I finish the game, I play the game with the Evil side.

While playing a game with the Good Side, I do feel remorse while playing. That's why when I played Fable, the first time I played on the Good Side, but eventually I did an Evil Deed.

I felt remorse for what I did, and thus started a new character because I felt so bad.

[Guest chobitslover90]

it depends on the game in fable im always evil beacause people give me respect and if they dont ill slaughter there whole town but in kotor 1&2 I base my decisions on the powers I will use and character class and lastly games like wow (world of warcraft for all you who didnt know) i would be on the good side beacause i can get more friends that way and thats what i think

[Zen]

[color=sienna][size=1]

It usually depends on the universe and what mood I'm in when it comes to my morality in games. When I was going through [B]Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic[/B], the first thing I made sure of was that I was on the Dark Side. I robbed, lied, and murdered my way to becoming a Sith Lord, and it felt oh so good. Then I turned around to play another Bioware game, [B]Jade Empire[/B], and yeah, I wanted to be the benevolent butt kicker good guy.

But then I turned around and played [B]True Crime: Streets of L.A.[/B] and all I wanted to do is run around on the streets, shooting pedestrians (preferably senior citizens). After that, I was an honorable warrior under the flag of Wu in [B]Dynasty Warriors 5[/B].

It just all depends. In videogames, all that matters is having fun to me. And if that fun envolves head shotting Granny or slicing through a crowd of evil peons, either way it doesn't matter. Yeah, sometimes I felt like a douche in KOTOR, and yeah sometimes I felt like a good two shoes in Empire, when I wanted to insult some dumby asking me stupid questions. It all depends.

Oh, and by the way. Shooting the limbs off of terrorists in [B]Soldier of Fortune[/B] does not make me a psycho. You do it and tell me it's not the most fun you've ever had in your whole existance.[/color][/size]

[Guest chobitslover90]

[QUOTE=Mugen][color=sienna][size=1]

It usually depends on the universe and what mood I'm in when it comes to my morality in games. When I was going through [B]Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic[/B], the first thing I made sure of was that I was on the Dark Side. I robbed, lied, and murdered my way to becoming a Sith Lord, and it felt oh so good. Then I turned around to play another Bioware game, [B]Jade Empire[/B], and yeah, I wanted to be the benevolent butt kicker good guy.

But then I turned around and played [B]True Crime: Streets of L.A.[/B] and all I wanted to do is run around on the streets, shooting pedestrians (preferably senior citizens). After that, I was an honorable warrior under the flag of Wu in [B]Dynasty Warriors 5[/B].

It just all depends. In videogames, all that matters is having fun to me. And if that fun envolves head shotting Granny or slicing through a crowd of evil peons, either way it doesn't matter. Yeah, sometimes I felt like a douche in KOTOR, and yeah sometimes I felt like a good two shoes in Empire, when I wanted to insult some dumby asking me stupid questions. It all depends.

Oh, and by the way. Shooting the limbs off of terrorists in [B]Soldier of Fortune[/B] does not make me a psycho. You do it and tell me it's not he most fun you've

ever had in your whole existance.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

is it just me or does jade empire basically force you to be good cuz u look like a total jerk if your not "ill save u kitty cat with cancer"

and you dont oh wait that would be a spoiler nvm

kiss kiss

[Zen]

[color=sienna][size=1]

Actually, I like the choices [B]Jade Empire[/B] gives you in morale descesions. If you want to be a good guy, your descesions usually need to be selfless and more just, with less regard for yourself. Example: will you accept this reward for your troubles? If not, then you are being selfless, equalling a good guy point. But if you want to be a bad guy, then your descesions will be selfish, or intidimidating. Example: "Yeah, I'll get you the medecine, if you pay me." Then you get the cash and let the person die, equaling a bad guy point. Or you can let the guy live, and just get less bad guy points.

I mean, yeah, you can come off as an *** at times. But more often than not, you have more choices to make than those few.

[/color][/size]

[Guest chobitslover90]

[QUOTE=Mugen][color=sienna][size=1]

Actually, I like the choices [B]Jade Empire[/B] gives you in morale descesions. If you want to be a good guy, your descesions usually need to be selfless and more just, with less regard for yourself. Example: will you accept this reward for your troubles? If not, then you are being selfless, equalling a good guy point. But if you want to be a bad guy, then your descesions will be selfish, or intidimidating. Example: "Yeah, I'll get you the medecine, if you pay me." Then you get the cash and let the person die, equaling a bad guy point. Or you can let the guy live, and just get less bad guy points.

I mean, yeah, you can come off as an *** at times. But more often than not, you have more choices to make than those few.

[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

but you dont score with the sexy asian chick she only goes for the good boys and i have been a bad boy lets just say i let more then a few villages die

[Tatsubei Yagyu]

[COLOR=Navy][FONT=Comic Sans MS]It's funny.

A lot of people can't bring themselves to do a dishonorable deed to the citizens of the video game world. The funny thing about it is that doing the right thing in video game benefits you no more than doing the wrong thing. Feeling so sorrowful for the kitten who you just punted across the screen that you reload it and pretend it never happen kinda makes me laugh...

The only reason I laugh is because I'm like that. I, all though in the end the game world won't be totally effected, can't disrespect my party members, even though they started the dilholeness.

:huh:

As many of you above me said, I guess we just play the way we feel, right? :p [/FONT][/COLOR]

[PWNED]

[COLOR=DimGray]I have a tendency to stay neutral through a game that allows you to make choices that effect the story because of the type of person that I am. Alright, So i have a tendency to embrance Anarchy when I get the chance in a game but from Anarchy rises a greater power. Staying Neutral in games like 'Baldurs Gate', 'Neverwinter Nights', 'KOTOR' and others allow me to change my sides when It benefits me the most.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Red]Example:[/COLOR] [COLOR=DimGray] In Baldurs Gate you meet a guy in Nashkel who mistakes you for a famous Bouty Hunter and offers to give you about 200 Gold Pieces or so. Do you choose to accept it and forfiet all Bounty jobs that you can get off of him or Vice Versa? The thing is, is that this occurs early in the game when you need all the gold that you can get so then what do you do?

Moments like those will really frustrate someone like me because I refuse to be a good guy and will only do evil things when I am forced to.
[/COLOR]
Crapfully Crap
-[FONT=Impact] The Monster[/FONT]

[Zen]

[color=sienna][size=1]

Actually, some video game morality choices have effects on the game. Like, in certain games, it will undoubtedly effect the story and how the games ending plays out or even the last few moments of the game itself. Such an example is [B]Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic[/B]. While other games, such as [B]GTA: Sand Andreas[/B] really have no long term effects other than possibly dying or being arrested, which you lose nothing other than your current fire arms and some cash. Again, things depend... Or it could just be like in [B]The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past/Ocarina of Time[/B] and killing chickens end up in a hilarious Easter Egg where you are nearly killed. Boy, you can't imagine my suprise when that happened.

As I have stated before, video game morality depends on the game, the character, and the mood I'm in. If I'm Kain in [B]The Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen[/B], then yes, I shall drink the blood of innocent bystanders. If I'm the main character in [B]Fable[/B] who gets alot of booty for being a good guy, then, yeah, I'm gonna be a good guy. (Although killing annoying people is so much fun...)

[/color][/size]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]When I play a video game I tend to choose what I am most comfortable with, which usually ends up being the good guy. Then once I've beaten it being good I get curious about what happens if you are bad and I start another game being evil the next time. Like the Star Wars Jedi game you mentioned. I've played as a good guy and as a bad guy.

It's easier to be good than bad, at least for me. I still get a kick out of seeing what happens when you are bad though. ^_^ I think it's because even though you are being mean, it's not real and just a video game. [/COLOR]