Advice, please?

[renayiiq]

[center][img]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4713/briefcasekz5.jpg[/img][/center]

Ok, so there's this club at my school that meets every Friday. It's called "Youth for Christ." Now, I've talked to a few of my friends about my issue with it, how if the Christians have their little religious congregation, why don't other people have it? Like Pagans, or Satanists? Ally and Tim said that you're not allowed to have any form of Satanism or Witchcraft in schools. Well, why are they allowed to have a religious club? It's not fair. Tim had already talked to Mr. Cannon about sponsoring a club for Satanists, because he knows Mr. Cannon would. Nope, didn't happen. He would've if he could, but he couldn't. I personally think that ANY form of religion in schools should be abolished. I'm not a stupid atheist /scientologist who wants to take away "one nation, under God" or "In God we trust," but I'd like to listen to the announcements without hearing, "Youth for Christ is having a meeting this Friday at lunch. Bring your own drinks, food will be provided. And remember, bring a friend!" [B][I][U]Bring a friend?![/U][/I][/B] That sounds rather convert-happy (my take on trigger-happy, but for Christians). I just don't see the use of so many hypocrites congregating on "how else to take over the world with our [I]kind, loving [/I] god that wants to send everyone to hell if they are not like us?"
How do I put a stop to this...crap? How do I get this club abolished?
No offense to all you Christians out there, but, I'm basing my opinions on my experiences. Not all of you are bad, but, I don't like preferential treatment. [I]For anyone.[/I]

[COLOR=Red][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=4]***REMEMBER*** I don't like your opinions, I want to know HOW TO GET RID OF THE CLUB, not how to deal with it, because I refuse to deal with it. And if you don't want to give me advice on how to make this club vanish into thin air, and would rather shove your opinion down my throat, this isn't the place to do it. PM me instead of trying to publicly prove me wrong, because I am always, always, always right.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Boo]

[size=1]If a school chooses to make these clubs and announce them, it's their decision. Your school seems to be a Christian school.

[quote name='Renayiiq']or Satanists? [/quote]

[quote name='Renayiiq']I personally think that ANY form of religion in schools should be abolished. [/quote]

Like I said before. A school may choose itself if it likes to have a religious base. My school is Christian of origin, although you wouldn't notice now. I'm pretty sure they would consider making a club for Muslims if they had a [i]Youth for Christ[/i] one. But a Satanist club goes a bit far off their core.

[quote name='Renayiiq]I'm not a stupid atheist /scientologist who wants to take away "one nation, under God" or "In God we trust," but I'd like to listen to the announcements without hearing, "Youth for Christ is having a meeting this Friday at lunch. Bring your own drinks, food will be provided. And remember, bring a friend!" [B][I][U]Bring a friend?![/U][/I][/B'] That sounds rather convert-happy (my take on trigger-happy, but for Christians). [/quote]

Dang, get a grip on yourself. Oh no, someone says "Bring a friend"! Maybe they can bring Christian friends who didn't ever visit the club yet. Or perhaps this club is just fun to go to for anyone. [strike]Really, let go of that set of Dark Ages brains and buy a new pair. [/strike]

[quote name='Renayiiq']I just don't see the use of so many hypocrites congregating on "how else to take over the world with our kind, loving god that wants to send everyone to hell if they are not like us?"[/quote]

Assuming you are a satanist, there's a big possibility that what you just said is based almost completely on religious issues. That or you have a terrible stereotype of Christians, or some sort of Christian Hatred.

Let people have their club. If you don't like it, go to an other school where they don't hype [i]Youth for Christ[/i], and move on with your life.

[color=green]The poster only attacked your religion, there's nothing wrong with that. Please censore your post, Boo. Thank you.
-Boo[/color][/size]

[renayiiq]

I didn't ask for an opinion, I asked for advice on how to get the club abolished. So you can have a nice day and play hide and go ____ yourself. You can choose the word appropriate of being in place of the blank. Buh-bye now.

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Whoa, hold your horses, there, the both of you.

We're all for disagreeing with each other and civilized debates, but blatant insults and flaming are no-nos. You, Boo, have been around long enough to have that blazed into your memory. renayiiq, I would suggest you keep that in mind as you continue to post here.

Since you're seeking advice on how to get the club abolished (though I don't really agree with your logic,) I would suggest going to the principal or the student council to try and put in a motion to have the club abolished. You'd have to provide adquate reason for such a thing, however.[/color][/size]

[Guest Salty Bob]

I'd suggest you look up the part in the constitution that says people are free to worship in their own way. Show it to your principal. Force him to allow you to form the Satanist Club. Than do some really strange things and give your school a bad name, smear blood all over the walls or somthing else. They wont close your club because you can sue for religious intolerence. The only way they can get rid of you is to outlaw religiously-biased clubs. Problem solved.

Failing that, tell them that Christians offend you. Get a whole bunch of friends to complain. Pepper them with complaints until they cave.

Salty Bob has spoken!

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo]You are asking for advice on how to get rid of the club. So I will tell you how to do so. If you are attending a school that receives funds from the government then the only way to remove such a club would be for your school district to not allow any non-curriculum clubs.

The reason for this is because of The Federal Equal Access Act, which requires most schools (Specifically those who receive Federal aid, private schools are not subject to this act) to permit clubs of all religions, and none. Included might be groups, which deal with Atheism, Goth Culture, Heavy Metal music, Satanism, Wicca and other Neopagan religion. Any school that receives Federal financial assistance must abide by this act. If you really want to know more about the act then here?s a link to more information on it. [URL=http://www.religioustolerance.org/equ_acce.htm] [COLOR=Indigo][B]The Federal Equal Access Act.[/B][/COLOR][/URL]

Unless the people who belong to the ?Youth for Christ? are being disruptive the club cannot be denied from forming a club as their right to do so is protected by The Federal Equal Access Act. It can?t be denied based on other people?s perception that it will be disruptive, or on the misconduct of those who are not students or a member of the club.

So if you really want it gone, you will have to convince the school district that it and all non-curriculum clubs need to be discontinued. If they remove only the ?Youth for Christ? club then members of the club will be within their legal right to sue the state for violating The Federal Equal Access Act. This law was put in place back in August 1984 and since then several religious clubs have successfully sued the school districts and won the right to have their club.

If you attend a private school then they have the legal right to deny any club they choose.
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[SunfallE]

[COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]If you are looking for advice then[B] indifference[/B] is correct. If your school receives federal funding then the only way to remove the club is to remove all of them. It goes both ways as the Act protects religious clubs and non-religious clubs. A while ago the state of Utah tried to ban a Gay-Straight Alliance club in one of the high schools in the main capital city of Salt Lake City Utah. The net result was that the students sued the state based on The Federal Equal Access Act and won the right to have their club as the school district was unwilling to remove all clubs. It was really annoying since the school district spent over 250,000 in legal fees in an attempt to bypass the law. It didn?t work.

And if you belong to a privately funded school they can choose which clubs they will allow and there is no law to use against them. You can form petitions to remove the club but they have the right to simply ignore what the students prefer.

So if you belong to a privately funded school I have no advice as they can do as they please in that respect, but if you belong to a public school then they only way to legally get rid of the club is to convince your school district to remove all non-curriculum clubs.[/COLOR]

[renayiiq]

[QUOTE=SunfallE][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]If you are looking for advice then[B] indifference[/B] is correct. If your school receives federal funding then the only way to remove the club is to remove all of them. It goes both ways as the Act protects religious clubs and non-religious clubs. A while ago the state of Utah tried to ban a Gay-Straight Alliance club in one of the high schools in the main capital city of Salt Lake City Utah. The net result was that the students sued the state based on The Federal Equal Access Act and won the right to have their club as the school district was unwilling to remove all clubs. It was really annoying since the school district spent over 250,000 in legal fees in an attempt to bypass the law. It didn?t work.

And if you belong to a privately funded school they can choose which clubs they will allow and there is no law to use against them. You can form petitions to remove the club but they have the right to simply ignore what the students prefer.

So if you belong to a privately funded school I have no advice as they can do as they please in that respect, but if you belong to a public school then they only way to legally get rid of the club is to convince your school district to remove all non-curriculum clubs.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


The problem is that they won't allow a Pagan or Satanic club or anything to do with "witchcraft." They won't allow anything that isn't Judeo-Christian. I'm saying that if people like me and my friends can't have our types of religious clubs, they shouldn't have one, either, and that's why I want to get rid of it.

And Chapin is a public school. With alot of problems. A really lame dresscode, biased opinion on what religious clubs are allowed, and no funding for adding on to the school (we're starting to get overcrowded). Yay for dysfunction.

[SunfallE]

[QUOTE=renayiiq]The problem is that they won't allow a Pagan or Satanic club or anything to do with "witchcraft." They won't allow anything that isn't Judeo-Christian. I'm saying that if people like me and my friends can't have our types of religious clubs, they shouldn't have one, either, and that's why I want to get rid of it.

And Chapin is a public school. With alot of problems. A really lame dresscode, biased opinion on what religious clubs are allowed, and no funding for adding on to the school (we're starting to get overcrowded). Yay for dysfunction.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]
Then I suggest you and your friends talk to a lawyer since it sounds like your school is violating The Federal Equal Access Act. If you have applied for a club and have been turned down then definitely go seek legal counsel as you and your friends would be within your legal right to sue the school district for violating the Act.

That?s exactly what the students in Salt Lake City did when the school refused to allow them to have a Gay-Straight Alliance club. And they won. A lawyer would know for sure how to help you and your friends at this point. If nothing else the lawyer could probably direct you to organizations that support your type of club and free speech who could assist you in a legal battle. The students in Salt Lake City had no money to fight and yet they found help and ended up winning.

It doesn?t matter if your school objects, they are not above the law and they have no right to deny you your club based on what they think it should be about. That?s the whole point of the law to keep the majority from discriminating against the minority when it comes to choices in forming clubs. And it doesn?t matter if the parents object either as the Act protects from outside influences having a say in what the club can be.

It will take some time and research, but it can be done. I?d start by reading up on the information regarding The Federal Equal Access Act in the link indifference provided. I wish you the best of luck.
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[Sara]

[color=#333333]On another note, if you are trying to start your own club (and it seems to me that your point is [i]not[/i] "equal access," but simply being a thorn in the school's proverbial side), make sure you follow all the steps required for starting a club.

These exact rules may not hold true for you, but in my experience, you need:
[indent][size=1]?A number of interested students (who are willing to state that they are interested in [i]founding the club[/i], not just joining "if it happens.")

?An adult advisor. A teacher who is willing to supervise the club.

?A "mission statement" or written intent regarding the purpose of the club. What will you do at meetings? What is the point?

?Many schools also have a requirement that groups not be exclusive, cruel in nature or intent, violent, or disruptive in nature. Make sure that your proposed club is none of these things. (If you are forming it sincerely, that is one thing. If you are forming it just to spite the Christians, that may be viewed as another.)[/size][/indent]

Find out what is required to start a club, and make sure you have what you need. A tentative meeting schedule would also be a good thing.

[quote]Tim had already talked to Mr. Cannon about sponsoring a club for Satanists, because he knows Mr. Cannon would. Nope, didn't happen. He would've if he could, but he couldn't.[/quote]
It sounds to me like you approached a teacher about sponsoring you, and he refused. This could be for any number of reasons, some as simple as he didn't want the headache involved with approaching the [whoever one approaches about starting a club]. If this is something you're interested, talk to Mr. Cannon yourself, and find out why he refused.

If you want to start a club, you're going to need a more solid reason than a whiny "Well, [i]they[/i] have one, why can't I?" You're also going (in this case) need to submit or prove that your group will not be intentionally violent or disruptive. You seem like the kind of person who would throw a tantrum. Word your request intelligently and politely. I'm sure you can do it.

You also seem to throw the terms Witchcraft, Paganism, and Satanism around a bit. I'm not sure how familiar you are with them, but I would suggest going for a club revolving around whatever you actually know about. (Athieism and Humanism are also options.) If your rallying point is a group specifically for non-christians, you might take that approach.

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[Guest Heero yuy]

I would talk to the school director of clubs and foundation,or the pta, or maybe adminstrators. for what I know, religion isn't supposed to be school. Hence, all the arguements whether or not to have "god" remain in the plegde.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Not to be offensive my dear, but who are you to call my beliefs "[I]crap[/I]" just because you don't agree with them ? It seems to me from the statement at the end of your post in large red letters that you are more interested in getting rid of the Christian club because you don't like it, as opposed to the fact that the school won't allow you to start a Satanist or Wiccan group and so you want to use the "[I]all or nothing[/I]" approach.

Now I know you're not interested in anyone's opinion, rather you just want to know how to get rid of this group with minimal effort because you have some kind of grudge against their ?[I]convert-happy, hypocritical[/I]? beliefs but just for a moment think of the people who actually attend that group because they do find it to be spiritually fulfilling. How saddened, or irritated do you think they?ll be with you because you shut it down because you had a problem with their group, as opposed to you just dealing with your problem like a normal person ?[/SIZE]

[renayiiq]

What part of[B] [COLOR=Red][SIZE=3]"no opinions"[/SIZE][/COLOR] [/B] do you people not understand? If I seriously wanted to hear ANYONE'S opinions, don't you think that I'd ask specifically? And, why do you think that I specifically said that [B][COLOR=RED][SIZE=3]I DON'T WANT, nor do I give a damn about, YOUR OPINIONS? Your opinions do not count, and I do not wish to be insulted by them. SHUT UP.[/SIZE][/COLOR] [/B] And I'm deleting this thread in an hour, because certain people don't know how to[B] [COLOR=Red][SIZE=3]NOT GIVE ME ANY DAMN OPINIONS!!![/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

[Guest dir]

why do you want to get rid of ths club

[Stuart]

[size=1][color=seagreen]Why wait? I think I'll close this thread now before it sparks into something worse. Your behavior is fairly unacceptable, and I don't want this to continue. Nothing postive is coming from this thread, and I doubt it will. You can't ask a person to not share their opinon; It's just not your place. renayiiq, I strongly advise you review the posts in your latest Suggestions & Feedback thread- Where I've provided more reasoning supporting the closing of this thread. Feel free to ask any questions, and share your concerns there.

[b]Thread Closed[/b][/size][/color]