Heavy Metal

[Jakehammaren]

I think you sort of missed what was said (by me, at least). You can certainly be Christian and play Black Metal. My only point was that the term White Metal should be used to differentiate the two, just because of the huge culture gap. White Metal is still Black Metal musically, it just denotes the lyrical content. I think this is very reasonable.

[Box Hoy]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Naglfar is probably my favorite Black Metal band because although they're relentless, they have a very keen sense of melodic overtone that gives their music a really cool feel.[/quote]

Yeah, they're way good. I'm surprised they're not as big as say Cradle with that kind of melodic power behind the lyrics.

Going back to the original point of this entire topic. I've been a metalhead since around the 8th grade, (is a junior now).
It's honestly the most brutal genre alive, one of the most contreversial genre's, and one with the most variety.
Favorite bands would have to include: Rob Zombie (my absolute favorite), Murderdolls/Wednesday 13/FDQ, Scum of the Earth, The Graveyard Boulevard, Trash Light Vision (more punkish, oh well), Static-X, Systematic, Blind Guardian, Children of Bodom, Demon Hunter, Cradle of Filth, Dope, Facecage, Mushroomhead, and Slipknot.

I once told this like serious death metal guy at my school to screw off cuzz he was saying that Slipknot sucked. I was like, you know nothing and have no sense of variety.

Honestly, variety is what makes this genre great.

[Jakehammaren]

Do you realize that nearly every band on your list is not a Metal band? I don't want to get in a flame war here but I want to dispell any misconceotions about Metal right now. Children of Bodom and Blind Guardian are Metal bands (and great ones at that IMO), as is Cradle of Filth (for the most part...). The rest are definately not Metal bands (and no, Slipknot is not a Metal band).

And maybe the Death Metal kid was saying Slipknot sucks because he really just doesn't like them. Just because he doesn't like a particular band doesn't mean he has no taste for variety. Slipknot fans have a horrible reputation because they tend to not understand that some people just don't like Slipknot. It's not that we're being closed-minded and judgemental, it's that we simply don't enjoy their music.

I'm not trying to put you down, I'm just saying that the reason the Maggot community is looked down upon by so many is their lack of respect for the fact that people have differing tastes. I'm not pinning this on you, I'm just saying be careful about telling people off for not liking them, as it could be contributing to the perpetuation of this stereotype.

[Box Hoy]

Are you serious? Honestly, Slipknot hat half the people who follow them because half the people who listen to them follow them because they wear creepy masks and such.

Secondly don't go around saying Static-X, Murderdolls, and Rob Zombie and those bands are metal. What are you gonna call em then. Rapcore, metalcore, all these little subgenre's which I have no care for. Head up the line and it's all metal.

Lastly, don't think that because I listed Slipknot means I'm suddenly a full blown maggot or some crap like that. I like the band, simple as that.

I hate it how people who love death metal hate almost everything else. Bring a little variety into your lives!

[Amorphous]

I agree with Jake, the list you have posted is almost all non-metal. Though I do enjoy Rob Zombie he is Shock Rock while his earlier persona White Zombie had a Grunge Feel to the music. Despite that the bands that are metal on that you have listed are Cradle of Filth, Children of Bodom and Blind Guardian, nothing more, nothing less. As for all those bands other genres I can honestly tell you I do not know, but this does not hinder me from knowing the fact that they are not metal.

To tell you the truth most Metal Heads, (True) Goths, and Punks think that Slipknot is uninspired and annoying because of their gimmicks that they try to use in order to attract fan. These are things like masks and trying to play heavy with the occasional screaming here and there. I realize that Metal Bands, Punk Bands and Gothic Rock Bands all have an image factor as well but that is because of who they are. But this is not to gain fans. I have yet to see one person in any of those sub-cultural groups think that Slipknot is decent that I have talked to. That is not to say that everyone thinks that.

If you run into a decent metal head then it has nothing to do with variety in their taste of music; I know lots of Metal Heads that listen to music from all types of genres. Even I do, I adore Electronic music for example; Ambient, Trance, and Drum and Bass. I also listen to Jazz, Rock and Folk. Though at the same time there are many Metal Heads who are just ignorant to the fact of that there is music beyond Metal and just like insulting people because they have nothing better to do. Sadly that takes up most of the Metal Head population. At the same time Slipknot is not metal. In fact they recognize this very point and even used to state it on the main page of their website for all to see.

Also, the whole thing to do with the Christian Lyrics and Black Metal music mixed together as has been addressed by Jake already is known as White Metal. At the same time I still do not feel it should exist as such, it just contradicts what Black Metal is. I accept it as it is though I can not stop the fact that this is happening.

Jake, all those bands you listed that you think are Black Metal are so no worries there.

[Linkk]

Hi I love heavy metal
My favorite is Metallica, Def Leppard, Dokken, Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne.

I like true heavy metal none of this spped **** or death whatever just pure good heavy metal and heavr rock or whatever it is you call it.

I have lots of other fav bands but I guess they don't fit under this catergory.

[Jakehammaren]

How about this, Box Hoy: I listen to heaps of Classical music, loads of Folk music from many different countries, I love Rock music, I'm a big fan of Trance... the list goes on. Me not liking Slipknot has nothing to do with a lack of taste for variety - I just don't like Slipknot.

[quote name='BoxHoy']Rapcore, metalcore, all these little subgenre's which I have no care for. Head up the line and it's all metal. [/quote]

Nu-metal/rapcore/whatever are not subgenres of Metal as you stated. They are their own thing entirely. Electric guitars and screaming does not constitute Metal. Slipknot, for example, use a combination of Grunge, Alternative and the occasional Hip-Hop influence to create their sound. There's nothing Metal about them besides the [I]occasional[/I] guitar solo on Vol. III, and that's not enough to make them a Metal band. And as Amorphous said, Slipknot has publically addressed the fact that they're not a Metal band. The band [I]themselves[/I] said so.

Sure, there's plenty of ignorant Death Metal fans out there, but Amorphous and myself are not huge Death Metal fanatics. Amorphous is a Black and Doom connesseur (sp), whereas I'm into Power and Viking/Folk Metal.

[Box Hoy]

Alright, so you've won on Slipknot. I still like them though and would say there the hardest rap I've ever listened to.
As for Rob Z. go ahead and say he's shock rock but I would still classify that as some sort of sub genre of metal. And *gasp*, we can put Murderdolls and W. 13 in there too.

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I think we should all just stop arguing and admit it - Limp Bizkit is the heaviest and best metal to ever be composed. Fred Durst says so![/font][/color][/size]

[Samsara]

[quote name='DeadSeraphim][size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I think we should all just stop arguing and admit it - Limp Bizkit is the heaviest and best metal to ever be composed. Fred Durst says so![/font][/color'][/size][/quote]

Haha, seriously. Limp Bizkit and Korn just represent my angst so well.

[Amorphous]

Well then I guess you aren't metal enough, you should all be listening to the hardcore beats of Linkin Park. Duuuuh. They are teh angst1!

Honestly what was the point of spamming up this thread?

Anyways, we can put Murderdolls and Wednesday 13 in there too? How so?
All I ask is for some proof as to why you think they are metal.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Amorphous']Honestly what was the point of spamming up this thread?[/quote]
Because watching metalheads argue over semantics is [i]hilarious[/i].[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Box Hoy]

Limp Bizkit. Isn't that a game that perverted teenagers play...never mind.

Anyhow, I classify Murderdolls as more punkish than Wednesday 13, even though their nearly the same. I would say they're a shock rock band like Rob Zombie with a faster sound. I mean, just listen. The electric guitars and drum beat isn't meant for punk. It's a speeding shock rock band...

Take the song "I Walked with a Zombie" Definetly fast, definetly hard, and definetly...shocking. I don't see a better place for him.

[Amorphous]

[QUOTE=DeadSeraphim][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]
Because watching metalheads argue over semantics is [i]hilarious[/i].[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
It is only hilarious because you do not understand, simple enough. With that I would also like to say I am not insulting you but at the same time if you do not listen to this music then you obviously do not understand why we are 'arguing'. If it seems hilarious that we are arguing just because of the fact that arguing over the internet is ignorant then do not worry about it you just have no reason to post then, once again, simple enough.

[Jakehammaren]

[QUOTE=Box Hoy]Limp Bizkit. Isn't that a game that perverted teenagers play...never mind.

Anyhow, I classify Murderdolls as more punkish than Wednesday 13, even though their nearly the same. I would say they're a shock rock band like Rob Zombie with a faster sound. I mean, just listen. The electric guitars and drum beat isn't meant for punk. It's a speeding shock rock band...

Take the song "I Walked with a Zombie" Definetly fast, definetly hard, and definetly...shocking. I don't see a better place for him.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you're right - they're a shock rock band. Shock rock is not Metal - it's Rock. While the Murderdolls, Rob Zombie, etc. are agressive, hard, and occasionally fast, but they also lack much of what constitutes a Metal band.

And to DeadSeraphim, Amorphous is right. If you don't understand why we're having this debate, you obviously don't listen to Metal and have never taken the time to fathom it. I don't see the point in getting involved.

[Box Hoy]

Aww, nobody laughed at my limp bizkit joke v.v

Oh well. I don't seem to be following what, you guys believe contributes to being metal. In my little world here rock is much softer than metal. It's more like I dunno. Probably the heaviest you'd see in rock is The Dave Matthews Band.

[Jakehammaren]

There's countless Rock bands that are heavier than the Dave Mathews Band, such as many of your favorite groups. Oh, BoxHoy, just so you know, the following paragraph is not directed at you, so don't take it that way. It's just a little rant about my frusturations regarding an issue.

What people seem to completely fail to understand is that what is and is not Metal is not a matter of opinion - it's solid fact. For example, if someone said that Johnny Cash is a rap artist, they'd be wrong - and I'm sure everyone can agree here. Why is it, then, that people call bands like System of a Down or Slipknot Metal bands when they're clearly not, and then argue when told otherwise? Calling Mudvayne a Metal band is absolutely, positively no different than calling the Beatles a Metal band. For some reason, people refuse to understand this. I don't get what the problem is.

[DeadSeraphim]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]Most people don't care about riffs, or symphonics, or whatever. They here heavy distortion and aggressive, loud lyrics - and that's the accepted definition of metal. Furthermore most people don't care enough to look further into it. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but most people [i]don't care[/i]. They live in pop culture, and pop culture says heavy distortion + aggressively delivered lyrics = metal. You can try and educate people, but really, like I've already said, for the vast majority they don't care enough to listen.

Also, unrelated, I have to buy some stuff by The Kovenant soon. /relevant input into discussion[/font][/size][/color]

[Amorphous]

I understand this fact that even though we try to educate people it will never truly help. But it does get frusturating you see even if people do not care. Music is what I find to be the most important thing in my life so I feel that I should at least try to explain to people, that do not know what metal truly is, what is and is not metal. Honestly otherwise I would not care at all.

Anyways for relevant input I never really agreed with the conversion of 'Covenant' to 'The Kovenant', I really think they took a huge downfall in changing from melodic black metal to industrial metal. That's my honest opinion, but at the same time I am not a fan of Industrial Metal so it is all opinion.

[DeadSeraphim]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]Industrial Metal is one of the only variants of metal I can listen to and enjoy regularly. Probably because I like industrial so much to begin with. lol If gODHEAD in my sig, and Zeromancer lyrics in my custom title doesn't prove it, what does, honestly.

That said I love punk and ska about as much ([i]good[/i] punk and ska - Leftöver Crack and Apocalypse Hoboken own your ***), and KoRn and Marilyn Manson even more than those entire genres, so whatever. lol KoRn's recent shift into more 'industrial' influenced music is much to my liking.[/font][/size][/color]

[Amorphous]

Despite the fact that Marylin Manson is not metal I love his album "Mechanical Animals". That is really the most mainstream band I listen to next to Coldplay and the music is just a guilty pleasure of mine I guess.

Otherwise yeah, I do not know of many industrial bands in fact I can't think of any industrial metal bands of the top of my head besides the Kovenant. It was never really my style I suppose.

[Box Hoy]

Alright alright. So they're not metal. How do I clearly group all these bands into a single genre if that's possible?

[Jakehammaren]

Hmm... that's a good question, BoxHoy. Slipknot, Static-X, Mushroomhead, and such bands are Nu-Metal, which is actually not a subgenre of Metal as many would believe. It's a genre of it's own that blends Grunge, Alternative, and Hip-Hop.

That one's easy, but groups such as Murderdolls/Wed. 13 are more difficult to place. I just regard them as a Rock band. I guess they're almost like a modern Glam Rock band, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that's what they are.

[Box Hoy]

Thank god. *praises*
I thought it was all disgraceful to call those bands Nu Metal from earlier threads I've seen. Ok some I'm an Nu Metal...head.
My last stand however is that Nu Metal, while not being a sub genre, is a cousin genre to metal. I also detest the name Nu Metal because it's more of an insult, because the metal bands around at the time of Coal Chamber and KoRn said that because alot of bands were using a variety of Upper and Lower case letters to make fun of them.

[Jakehammaren]

Actually, you're right. The term "Nu-Metal" actually originated in the undergroud Metal community as a title for bands like Slipknot, Korn, Coal Chamber, etc. that the media and ignorant fans of the aforementioned bands were calling Metal, therefore giving the general public an extreme misconception of the music that Metalheads lived for. They called this music Nu-Metal for a couple of reasons. First of all, it was the new (nu) fad that kids were just eating up because TV said so. Second, it's spelled with "nu" with an umlaat over the "u", which was a way of insulting purposeful mispellings such as KoRn and Limp Bizkit.

Unfortunately, more and more kids thinking this was Metal wandered their way into online Metal forums and such, discovered the term, and thought it was the actual title. Thus "Nu-Metal" was brought into the light of the mainstream and caught on as the official term for the genre.

A similar term that's become just as common but is clearly known as an insult is Mallcore, which is a way of denoting how many bands these days have "-core" slapped onto their genre. It also allundes to the fact that "mall goths", a much detested subculture, cling to this type of music because stores such as (and mainly) Hot Topic market them relentlessly, knowing that the image and lyrics of such bands are something that immature, angsty youths are likely to gravitate to.