Anime Avatar: The Last Airbende Official threadr- An Anime?

[Nomura]

In this thread we shall discuss Avatar: The Last Airbender. Upon talking about the show, we will discuss the topic, "Is it an Anime?"

I believe so.

Let's look at it this way. I know many of us here at the Otaku, like to draw and write Anime and Manga. And...most of us aren't Japanese, or Asian. So, if a big company wants to license or publish your work, and its an anime or manga, would you not call it an anime?

I bet you would.

Same deal here. A bunch of Anime fans got together, went to Asia, picked up some tips and tricks, came back and made a show that isn't half bad. Pretty good actually. And, it just so happens they got it licensed by Nickelodeon.

So what? I think its an anime just the same.

It has an anime-type story.
It has Asian traditons and culture.
It has the Anime art-style (No I'm not talking about the Sailor moon look)
It has a few Asian people helping out.

The newer Astro Boy is directed by a white guy, and people still call it an anime. So what's the difference with Avatar?

I debate on what I should be. Water or Air bender? I would usually say Air, but after seeing Katara fight the Water Tribe Sensei, I was impressed.

My favorite characters...

I like Aang, Katara, Zuko, Uncle, Sokka (Romance is in the air... :animesmil )

Heck, I like 'em all. I like Zuko as a hero. When hes fighting somebody, or trying to get past Zaow, I totally root for him. But when he fights Aang, or the rest of the gang, I wish he wouldn't win, but still would give effort, and live.

Uncle...he's not bad at all. He just encourages Zuko to do his best, and then he goes to eat Ramen, or sleep.

I feel bad for Aang. His entire tribe has been wiped out, and he has a soft spot for Katara. But I like it when he goes Super Airbender. LOL, you know? When his tattos and eyes glow alot, after he gets angry.

You guys should've seen the finale. Aang [SPOILER]took all the water from the Water tribe's oceans, and etc., and made a giant monster to wipe out the Fire Nation ships. It was sooooo sweeet. Oh, yeah...Sokka has got himself a girlfriend. Except, she's now a Spiritual fish... At least he got himself a kiss before she went to the Spirit World. She wouldn't have to if Zaow hadn't've killed Yen! Meany! [/SPOILER]

Oh well... So, what ya say fellow Otaku Members?

-Nom

[KKC]

[size=1]Yay! Someone finally made an Avatar thread!

I have to say right now that Avatar is my favorite show (that and naruto). The story line is amazing and I love how everything fits together. I think this is the best show Nickolodeon has ever had (it's about time!).

I have to say my favorite is Uncle Iroh. At the moment (from where the first season ends) I think he is the most mysterious about his past (except for Ozai, but who cares about him). My biggest curiosity right now is who his son was and what happened to him. [spoiler]Alot of rumors are going around that his son was taken by Ko, the face stealing spirit[/spoiler]. And I want to know why Ozai is king and Iroh isn't! I have a feeling Iroh's alot older sense he has a pot belly, wrinkles, and gray hair.

The finale was good and sad. Is it just me or did the part when the Northern Water tribe king said "the stillness before battle is unbearable." remind you of lord of the rings (that's like, exactly what Gandalf says to Pippin). The north kingdom even kind of looks like minitereth (sp?) in a few spots.

BTW [spoiler]When Aang went all Glowy near the end, he merged with the ocean spirit (the black koi fish) and together they went and killed all the fire nation guys. I was very happy when Zhao was pulled down by the ocean spirit[/spoiler].

Now about it being an anime. Well anime is Japanese animation. The show isn't really "from" Japan, but the animation is very similar to many japanese animation and the moves that they use in bending come from different types of martial arts in Japan. The creators really did research before making this and it's made the show amazing.

Most people will call it american anime (most likely I will) sense it's not from Japan, but it still deserves as much respect as the real stuff. [/size]

[duoikari]

I love avatar, i think that it's a really good story.

But i don't think it is an anime but i wish it was :catgirl:

[Morgan-Chan]

I love "Avatar"!!!!

My favorite has to be Prince Zuko!

*sees the looks* WHAT??!! Can I help it if I'm a Dante Basco fangirl!?? :animeblus :D :p

[Demitri]

I really don't think Avatar is an Anime because it's based on chinese culture. Some guy that he based the fighting and story on chinese culture and as far as i know ANIME is based on JAPANESE culture :animestun :p

[KKC]

[size=1]It's not just based on Chinese culture, the fighting styles are from Japan, not china, and the clothese they wear are a mix of chinese and japanese. Over all it focuses on the asian culture which includes both of these. I consider an american anime.

I can't believe how many people like Zuko. I mean, he's a pretty cool character, but he can be a pain in the booty sometimes. I feel sorry for him.[/size]

[Demitri]

i maybe wrong but the guy who created the fighting styles said that they were from China and i know i don't have ear wax build up :animeangr

[r2vq]

[quote name='KKC']It's not just based on Chinese culture, the fighting styles are from Japan, not china, and the clothese they wear are a mix of chinese and japanese.[/quote]
I hear a lot that it's based off a Chinese story, Journey to the West. Wiki tells me that it's based off of a Hindu story where an Avatar has to master the four different breaths.

The fighting styles in Avatar are Chinese, based off of Wu Xia styles.
Waterbending uses Tai Chi.
Earthbending uses Hung Gar.
Firebending uses Norther Shaolin Kung Fu.
Airbending uses Baguazhang.

[quote name='Demitri']I really don't think Avatar is an Anime because it's based on chinese culture. Some guy that he based the fighting and story on chinese culture and as far as i know ANIME is based on JAPANESE culture :animestun :p[/quote]

That would mean that Saiyuki and Dragonball aren't Anime. Both of these were based off of Journey to the West, a Chinese novel.
Even if Anime comes from Japan, the content doesn't have to be entirely Japanese. Monster, for example, is an Anime that takes place in Germany.
Another example would be Yugo the Negotiator which takes place in the Middle East.

If you define Anime as an Animated Work from Japan
Avatar IS NOT Anime because it came from the United States.

If you define Anime as a style of drawing/animation that originated in Japan
Avatar IS Anime since the style of drawing is similar to Japanese Anime style.

[quote=Nomura]It has an anime-type story.
It has Asian traditons and culture.
It has the Anime art-style (No I'm not talking about the Sailor moon look)
It has a few Asian people helping out.[/quote]

Anime type story? Anime is a broad medium that spans across all types of Genre. Excel Saga has a totally different style of story from Elfen Lied. Cowboy Bebop's story is totally different from Card Captor Sakura. There is no "Anime-type story". That's like saying there's a "movie-type" story, "television-type" story, or "book-type" story.

It has Asian traditions and cultures? Not all anime have Asian "traditions and culture"s. What about the two I mentioned earlier, Yugo and Monster?
Jackie Chan Adventures has Asian "traditions and culture" all throughout it. It's not considered Anime.

What style art are you talking about? If it's drawing style (the Sailor Moon look) then, I would agree with you.. but you said that's not what you're talking about. If it's animation style, I disagree.
Nickelodeon spends $1,000,000 per episode to produce Avatar. The animation is smoother, and more consistant. Avatar doesn't have anime-styled animation, it has better styled animation.

So for something to be considered Anime it has to have Asian people in it?
Again, Jackie Chan Adventures was chalk full of Asian people "helping out". Not anime.
Berserk has no asian people (apparently) but it's still Anime!

I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider Avatar to not be an Anime. That's your opinion, go ahead. I just think your reasoning is flawed, and I'm trying to point that out.

[quote name='Nomura']The newer Astro Boy is directed by a white guy, and people still call it an anime. So what's the difference with Avatar?[/quote]
Astro Boy was created by a Japanese guy. Even if it's a remake, the original was an Anime. In fact, the original was one of the original Anime.
Not only that, it's one of the most famous Anime created by the God of Manga/Father of Anime Osamu Tezuka. They may be so proud of Tezuka they refuse to believe that it's possible that the new Astroboy may not be Anime.

-Arvie

[KKC]

[size=1]Bah, I was so sure that the guy on TV said Japan. Oh well, Thanks for clearing that up Arvie ^^.

[quote]Nickelodeon spends $1,000,000 per episode to produce Avatar. The animation is smoother, and more consistant. Avatar doesn't have anime-styled animation, it has better styled animation.
[/quote]

I really enjoy the animation, the character designs are great and the scenary is also nice too. The only thing I ever see that is sloppy are a few of the complicated fight scenes. Such as Aang's fight with jet and when he fights Zuko in "Bato of the water tribe." During those fights (mostly when Aang is moving really fast and dodging stuff) the characters become more... I can't really find a word for it, but different parts of their body will be blobby looking and stuff. It's kind of hard to explain. Other tha that though the animation is wonderful. [/size]

[Guest MonkeyOfTheCorn]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][QUOTE][b][CENTER]-Demitri[/CENTER][/b]I really don't think Avatar is an Anime because it's based on chinese culture. Some guy that he based the fighting and story on chinese culture and as far as i know ANIME is based on JAPANESE culture [/QUOTE]
:animeangr Sorry, Demitri, but if you were here in front of me right now, I would have to smack you with something.

[b]Avatar is drawn in the [i]anime[/i] art style, therefore it is an anime.[/b]

To say that it is not anime just because it is drawn by someone who isn't Japanese is, in my opinion, pretty stupid. :( It's also kind of racist...

If it weren't for Americans, anime as we know it today wouldn't exist. Why, you ask? Well, the creator of Astro Boy (which is credited as the "first" anime) said that his art style was influenced by the big eyes of the characters in the movie Bambi, made by Walt Disney ([i]not[/i] Japanese!!!). Also, to say that it is't anime because it isn't based on Jpanese culture, you would have to say that Fullmetal Alchemist is not an anime, because alchemy comes from [i]Europe[/i], aaaannnnd I do believe that the entire show is set in Germany... Now, I don't think you're ready to admit [i]that[/i], now are you? :p Not to mention the fact that you would be mobbed by thousands of angry fangirls.... [center] I rest my case.[/center]

(an afterthought--- actually, I think Walt Disney was German or something like that, too...)[/FONT]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=MonkeyOfTheCorn][FONT=Comic Sans MS]
[b]Avatar is drawn in the [i]anime[/i] art style, therefore it is an anime.[/b]

To say that it is not anime just because it is drawn by someone who isn't Japanese is, in my opinion, pretty stupid. :( It's also kind of racist...[/FONT][/QUOTE]
Oh, please. Pulling out the racist card here is just hilariously cliché.

It's impossible to come up with a visual/artistic definition for anime that includes every anime ever made. A fair number of anime have certain visual elements in common, which is what gave rise to the whole BESM cliche. But when you get right down to it, [i]there is no one "anime art style."[/i] As far as I'm concerned, anime is animation from Japan. That's it. It doesn't matter if it's about flying pigs from Mars or Japanese schoolgirls. It doesn't matter if it's totally unrelated to Japanese culture, or deeply rooted in it. I don't dispute the right of you or anyone else to disagree with me and go by a visual definition, but I'm not going to sit back and let you wave around the whole racist label, either.

A big part of the problem here is fans who act as if the words "anime" and "manga" convey some kind of holy meaning on animation or sequential art that's put under those categories. You can draw something in what you perceive as being an "anime style," and ultimately its quality will be totally unaffected by whether you call it a comic, sequential art, a graphic novel or manga. Animation doesn't have to be called anime to be worth watching. There's an attitude that leads people to act as if the worst and most insulting thing ever is having a foreign-produced, so-called anime/manga-style piece of work be called a graphic novel (or whatever) rather than manga. If anything, that's the attitude which really smacks of elitism. For god's sake, even Korean and Chinese comics aren't called manga. :animesigh

~Dagger~

[Nomura]

And may Astro's creator rest in peace...

FMA is a made up world. Resembool, Lenor, Ishvar...etc. etc. They're not in Germany, and they aren't real.

I can see why everybody thinks the show is not Japanese. I know one thing, though. Fire Nation are Chinese. Thats right. CHINA.

The art style I'm talking about, is the high-def color, which is different from the low grade color of western. It also, has the eyes, the noses, the shapes, the cool CGI lighting, etc. etc. Really, I just didn't want you guys to think I was talking about SM alone...

Anime-type story... what I mean to say... There are certain elements to this story that are thrown out through Anime history. The fight scenes, love, the funny moments were something silly hapens aka Hitting the ground all of a sudden, etc etc

Well, in my opinion...I'd say it is what so many of you call these shows. Anime.

[Sandy]

I'm no expert of anime or manga, but isn't calling a purely American cartoon an 'anime' a bit disrespectful and, to be honest, rude?

It's like because anime is in such a big fad at this moment, cartoonists everywhere are starting to publish their own stuff made in the similar style, trying to get their share on the money that's practically flowing to the Japanese anime-makers.

I haven't heard about this show you're talking about before now, but I just checked a few pictures from it, and I don't think it looks much like anime at all... More like Mulan or some other Disney production.

Besides, American cartoonists should be proud of their own style of animation, and not try to copy some other country's style.

[Nomura]

Oy, now that seemed a li'l rude. I don't think they did copy, seeing as how some people, especially Otakus, can only draw like Japanese folk. I can't draw an american picture without making it look Anime-ish. I've been watching Anime since I was three, and ever since, I can only draw Anime and Manga. I'm not copying anybody, its just my artistic abilities.

What you said is like saying that FMA is rude because its not in Japan. Like DBZ is rude because of the Chinese traditions. Like Anime is rude because it originally was based off of Disney animation...

I don't think it to be very rude. Its a cool show, good artwork, good story, and I'd wish some Anime and other shows were more like it.

[Sandy]

No, I didn't mean it that way, really. I meant that using the actual word "anime" is quite rude, if it's not a Japanese cartoon, because to my knowledge, anime literally means Japanese animation.

It's totally different to say it's "anime-style", or "pseudo-anime", but even then [I]to me[/I] it feels like ripping off a concept that's selling big bucks.

I get a feeling that us Western people - whether it be cartoon companies or common otakus - are jealous of what the Japanese people have created, and we are trying to steal that honor from them... :/ But these are just my personal feelings.

Of course people can and [I]should[/I] be anime/manga fans, otakus or whatever, just try to be respectful to the origins.

PS. In my opinion claiming that modern anime would not exist without Betty Boop or Bambi is utterly ridiculous, as anime goes [I]far[/I] beyond the extralarge eyes.

[Noside]

:animesigh This question's been rehashed so many times on these boards, heh different people same opinions.

The whole Anime is based on Japanese culture thing is a new one for me to hear. Who the heck came up with that one? Animes happen in space, the west, germany, underwater, sometimes in Japan, and a whole lot of other places. I can't believe this false definition even exists quite frankly.

heh with the Disney arguement ya could go deeper and spout the inspirations for the Disney cartoons and for Betty Boop and other stuff like that and then look at the inspirations for those drawings and the inspirations for the drawings after that. The Disney thing's a nice fact to spout out every chance ya get though, heh.

I think r2vq summed it up perfectly, and yet we're still here on this board. Anime is a Japanese cartoon. So a cartoon is a western anime,heh. So by that defintion it's not an anime.

We can do the whole drawing influence thing which gets backed up by the Disney fact. Anime inspired drawings for Airbender and Disney inspired drawings for animes decades ago and something inspired Disney and... well I already said this cycle.

Something I strike odd is Sandy's mention of drawings. It's not that these people aren't proud of their style or ripping off another style, it's just THEIR style. We see enough images to come up with our own style of drawing. An example is abstract drawings. Did an abstract artist at a young age look at a bunch of abstract things and just start drawing only abstract things? No, it's just the style they came up with for drawing. The drawing for Airbender just looks more like "Traditional Anime Style" than "Traditional Wastern Style" if ya go by "Current Trends".

Now let's hope what I have to say now makes sense. Why the hell do we have to put these labels on things in the first place? "This is anime,but this isn't." "This isn't anime,but that is." It's like some elitism with the word anime. Since I'm from the west, anime or not I'll call it a cartoon if I'm talking with someone unfamiliar with the Anime term and in a way that's how it should be. Let's just call it something, whatever our comrades know it as and go with that. Be it anime or cartoon or a drawing show with moving pictures, whatever, enough with the labels.

I hope this made some sense, Insomnia makes me write long posts...

After reading the posts again I guess I'll have to thank r2vq and Dagger for their influence on my post. :p

[Guest littlekirara]

[FONT=Arial Narrow]well, it's good enough to be an anime, but, to be an anime dosent the animation have to be from japan?[/FONT]

[Guest littlekirara]

[FONT=Impact][COLOR=Indigo] Well...it is done it an anme style, but I still dont think it's an anime, but we need to rememeber.. :rolleyes: lot of hard core anime/manga fans forget, just because a animated show is made in the usa, dosent mean its bad or thats it's like the other us cartoons like spongbob, although when the first avatar advistments came on I though it was going to be. Avatar is a strange one, but even though its done in anime style, I still dont think its an anime, because, all the anime books i've read say that anime is from japan, correct me if i'm wrong:drunk:. Avatar is really close to an anime, i dont know maybe we should let avatar fudge, but thats up the all the other anime fans. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Nomura]

Then it's settled, it's just a western anime. But most western animes try to hard, or just ain't that great. But, this one...it's a keeper.

So, now, do we have any more fans?

PS I think that anime started in the 1920s, so yeah that was long ago, but most anime back then had influence from Disney, but yeah, I may be wrong...

Sorry for yelling, Sandy, LOL :animeswea

[Slade]

As far as I knew or read, anime is considered any animation that comes from Japan or originates from Japan.The genres of the anime doesnt matter whether its German,English,Chinese or anyting else, anime is created to be aimed at all audiences.Anime I believe started out in 1963 with Astro Boy(US version of the name)although Mangas(japanese comicbook) have been out before anime,considering that most animes were inspired by manga. ;)

As far as Avatar goes, I dont think its an anime because it was made here in America.

[Nomura]

1963? That's way too behind when it really was made...

Havn't you ever seen Gigantor? That just goes to show you that anime was made before 1963, since it was made before AB...I may be wrong...BUT I believe still that anime was made in the 1920s believe it or not...

Avatar discussion please. Does anybody think Aang will restart Firebending training? "Cause if you remember, he stopped after he burnt Katara by being impatient with the flames he was controlling at the swamp place with the old man, whos name I do not remember. LOL, honestly, Aang is pretty good at Water bending, but I still think Katara is the man...Wo-man...Well, Katara is good, let's just say that...

[Guest MonkeyOfTheCorn]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][QUOTE][center][b]-Noside[/b][/center]Why the hell do we have to put these labels on things in the first place? "This is anime,but this isn't." "This isn't anime,but that is." It's like some elitism with the word anime. Since I'm from the west, anime or not I'll call it a cartoon if I'm talking with someone unfamiliar with the Anime term and in a way that's how it should be. Let's just call it something, whatever our comrades know it as and go with that. Be it anime or cartoon or a drawing show with moving pictures, whatever, enough with the labels.[/QUOTE]
.... yeeahhh... you're right, Noside. Besides, in Japan, the term 'anime' applies to all cartoons, not just what we call anime. So if you go to Japan and talk about anime, then it's the same as just talking about cartoons over here in America. So uh... all this arguing about it is kinda pointless, huh? :animeswea haha...

Now, back to Nomura.... Hey, I just watched Gigantor last night! :animesmil (well, technically it was this morning) Anyways, I guess Aang will eventually have to start firebending training again sometime... since he's supposed to master all four elements, blah, blah, blah.... Y'know, if you think about it, Katara kinda has more talent than him. I mean, [i]she[/i] had to learn waterbending all by herself, with no one to teach her, and Aang only had to copy off her... Not to mention the fact that he is a re-incarnation of all the past avatars, so really he had already mastered it like, thousands of times before, and just had to remember it... :rolleyes: [/FONT]

[r2vq]

[QUOTE=Nomura]1963? That's way too behind when it really was made...

Havn't you ever seen Gigantor? That just goes to show you that anime was made before 1963, since it was made before AB...I may be wrong...BUT I believe still that anime was made in the 1920s believe it or not...[/QUOTE]Gigantor aired on TV in 1963, same year as Astro Boy. Gigantor was a Manga in 1958, and Astro Boy was a Manga in 1952.

[quote name='Nomura']I think that anime started in the 1920s, so yeah that was long ago, but most anime back then had influence from Disney[/quote]The biggest thing that seems to have inspired Osamu Tezuka to create that whole Big Eyes Small Mouth (BESM) style was Bambi. That came out in 1942. Even Snow White, Disney's first animated feature, only came out 1937.

[quote name='LittleKirara']well, it's good enough to be an anime,[/quote]I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

Sorry to stray the topic again. I just wanted to clear up a few things that I didn't think were correct. I shall try to butt my nose out of this topic now.

-Arvi

[Nomura]

God, I need to do my research... Okay...