(mature discussion) Your Opinions on Sex Change

[2010DigitalBoy]

I was wondering what you guys's opinions on sex changes were. I think it's okay for someone to go through with it, whatever, it's their decision. I wouldn't think less of anyone for it, and I'd date (or even have secks with) a girl even if I knew she used to be a guy. So what about you guys? I find this topic very interesting and would like to hear more educated opinions. And for the love of god, no flame wars!!!

[TheShinje]

[size=1][color=crimson] Sex change operations? Personally, I think that anybody who seriously wants to swap genders that badly should seek psychiatric help immediately.

On the other topic, no, I wouldn't go out with a girl I knew was a man once, mainly because it's usually so clear that said person used to be a man. I mean, you can hack away at yourself and pump yourself full of the opposite hormone, but in the end, you will remain essentially, what gender you are. All supposed 'sucessful' sex changes I've seen have visible remnants of the original gender, and it looks completely out of whack.

It just ends uo looking like a big bemuddled mess. i would strongly advise anybody considering it to reconsider wrecking their lives. [/size][/color]

[EVA Unit 100]

I can sympathise with people who feel they need a sex change, but I don't really get why anyone would actually get one. It must be extremely painful and in the end it doesn't even fully change your gender. Now I've pondered my gender identity a bit. Heck, one of my best friends always wants to be called a boy (she's female). But I (and probably my friend as well) would never be so desperate as to get an opperation. If anyone could tell me exactly why anyone would feel they needed to get a sex change, it would be very helpful for my understanding of people in those situations.

[Starwind]

I'll go with you on it. It's a decision they made so let them go on with it if they want. I personally would never do it though, but that's just me.

[sakurasuka]

[SIZE=1]Tical, honey, you're 14. You shouldn't be having sex with anyone. Slow down. Honestly.

Getting a sex change isn't just a 'quick fix'. You're mainly only having these thoughts because you recently decided that you were bisexual, and you and your boyfriend [of about a week. Sorry, I just find it amusing that you can say you love someone, and a week later hate them] split up. Also, as much as I [i]know[/i] you hate hearing this, you are an immature teenage boy going through hormonal changes and having strange thoughts and feelings. And, though I know you hate hearing this as well, [i]you're not anyone super-special, this happens to nearly every goddamn loser on the face of this planet.[/i]

Only when you realize that can you grow up and move on.

On topic. I don't have any problem with sex changes in theory. Here's what I have a problem with.

The risk involved. It's a long painful process, and most people just don't understand that.

People doing it for the wrong reasons. Very few people are truly happy after getting a sex change, and most feel more lost and confused then before they did it.

If you [i]know[/i] that you really want to do it and you understand all the risks, then go for it. But I just don't think it's the best answer for most people.

And I don't know if I'd be able to love someone who's had a sex change, because most who have don't truly know themselves. If they had a firm grasp on who they are, and we really, truly loved each other, I'd have absolutely no qualms.[/SIZE]

[ForgottenRaider]

I don't agree with it. Though not strongly enough to distance myself from the sort of person who would do it. I cannot see it as some thing that would block a friendship though I could certainly never be in a relationship with some one who had been changed.

In reality every one hates their bodies (generalisation) and those that take it to that extent are misguided as are those who have, purely, cosmetic surgery. It is some thing every one has to deal with and this is giving in.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[QUOTE=sakurasuka][SIZE=1]Tical, honey, you're 14. You shouldn't be having sex with anyone. Slow down. Honestly.

Getting a sex change isn't just a 'quick fix'. You're mainly only having these thoughts because you recently decided that you were bisexual, and you and your boyfriend [of about a week. Sorry, I just find it amusing that you can say you love someone, and a week later hate them] split up. Also, as much as I [i]know[/i] you hate hearing this, you are an immature teenage boy going through hormonal changes and having strange thoughts and feelings. And, though I know you hate hearing this as well, [i]you're not anyone super-special, this happens to nearly every goddamn loser on the face of this planet.[/i]
[/QUOTE]

Woah, woah, don't drag me into this! I'm not interested in sex change, that would just be weird! And don't make assumptions about me, I don't 'hate' hearing anything, I know I'm an immature teenage boy going through very strange changes and stuff and I know I'm not special in any way, you're makiing me sound like something I'm not here. Look, you don't know me and you evidently don't know much about me, so don't go talking like you do. Also, I know I'm to young for sexual relations and as I've said about 7 million times Im not interested, I was just stating my willingness to do that.

Anyway, I just find this to be an interesting topic, and I'd like to hear other's opinions on it, that's all.

[sakurasuka]

[QUOTE=? Nomad Tical ?]Woah, woah, don't drag me into this! I'm not interested in sex change, that would just be weird! And don't make assumptions about me, I don't 'hate' hearing anything, I know I'm an immature teenage boy going through very strange changes and stuff and I know I'm not special in any way, you're makiing me sound like something I'm not here. Look, you don't know me and you evidently don't know much about me, so don't go talking like you do. Also, I know I'm to young for sexual relations and as I've said about 7 million times Im not interested, I was just stating my willingness to do that.

Anyway, I just find this to be an interesting topic, and I'd like to hear other's opinions on it, that's all.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Sorry for erm... Making asumptions. It's merely that your profile stated that you didn't know if you wanted to be a boy or a girl [or something along those lines] so yes, I assumed.

The rest of what I said was from reading other posts by you. No, I don't know you, but you do tend to put everything out there, so I must say, unless you're lying, I know quite a bit.

Yet again, I apologize for making assumptions. I'm quick to do that, sometimes. Sorry. No hard feelings?[/SIZE]

[Guest omgmangaw00t]

I heard some lunatic yelling on the Man-Cow radio show about how homosexuality is the default for humans. Renounce the evils of heterosexual marriage! Go gay!

Seriously, if you're a woman trapped in a man's body, I don't care what you do...JUST DON'T DO IT AROUND ME, and don't even try to make people think you've always biologically been a woman. It's unethical.

If you're only 14...you better not be doing anything rash. Maybe you're just a tad slow to develop your identity-- if you know what I mean. Being a guy is great! Who couldn't love the smooth curves of a woman's body?

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I think Shinji's first line sums up most of my thoughts on the procedure of gender reassignment, those that want to go through with such a course of action obviously need psychiatric help. I honestly don't know what to think of people who find themselves in the situation where they believe they have been born the wrong gender, it just seems such an unlikely condition, and perhaps condition is an inaccurate word to use to describe it.

Would I be involved with someone who had a gender change, honestly if I knew, I'd say no, as it would in my mind be tantamount to homosexuality which I am against for religious reasons. If I didn't know, well I couldn't really say as if it was a thorough enough operation I probably wouldn't realise, and when I did realise, I wouldn't want to be me. [/SIZE]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='omgmangaw00t']Seriously, if you're a woman trapped in a man's body, I don't care what you do...JUST DON'T DO IT AROUND ME, and don't even try to make people think you've always biologically been a woman. It's unethical.[/quote]

[color=green]Sounds like you do care, as you wouldn't want such a person around you. I think that mindset falls somewhere between denial and intolerance, personally.

Gender is in your head, sex is in your pants. They don't always match.

If changing someone's gender will make them happy, I don't see why anyone would be against that. It's not as if this person is forcing you to do the same, and this behavior isn't harmful to you in any way.

If you can't accept people for who they are, at least be tolerant of those different from you.[/color]

[sakurasuka]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][color=green]
Gender is in your head, sex is in your pants. They don't always match. [/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I completely agree.

Also, I don't know the scientific term for it, but occasionally there's a baby born with both types of genetalia... And the parents get to make the decision on sex. Then, really, if they chose the wrong sex, you'd be a woman trapped in a man's body, or a man trapped in a woman's. This case is very rare, obviously, but I've heard about it some before.

Anywho, I totally agree with everything Boba Fett said.[/SIZE]

[Darth Vectis]

[COLOR=DarkGreen][SIZE=1]I agree with Sakurasuka and Boba Fett.

People shouldn't be judge because they appear to be male or female but think and act more femmine or masculen that doesn't corrispond with their current gender. Some scientists have found that the human brain sometimes has the chemicals that would classify that person as a female but have the gentials of a male. Scientist can do a test to show what gender you are from the the chemicals working around in your brain. But this can only be done post mordum, whichc doesn't help any on while your still alive but it shows that your brain can be of a different gender but your body took on the opposite.

If people want a sex change then they should be allowed to do as they wish, this a free country. And they should be allowed to do it because they would most likely feel more comfortable as the opposite sex of what they were.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']I think Shinji's first line sums up most of my thoughts on the procedure of gender reassignment, those that want to go through with such a course of action obviously need psychiatric help. I honestly don't know what to think of people who find themselves in the situation where they believe they have been born the wrong gender, it just seems such an unlikely condition, and perhaps condition is an inaccurate word to use to describe it. [/SIZE][/quote]
You know, interestingly, people have to undergo psychiatric evaluation before getting a sex change. They have to be observed for a period of time, while on oestregen and living fully as a woman, before psychiatrists deem them mentally fit to undergo the procedure, and decide whether they're serious or just ******* around. Obviously this is only for m2f patients, I've no idea about f2m. That's a whole other ball park, honestly.

As an occasional cross dresser (shock, horror, etc) I've looked into this thing somewhat, and have a, I think, reasonably sound opinion on the matter. If someone wants to do this kind of thing - I mean, [i]really[/i] wants to, then go ahead and do it. Obviously, if they're insincere, they'll get caught out by the psychiatrists and psychologists, and that acts as an effective enough net to catch those who could be making a potentially irredeemable life altering decision, so it ends up that only those who want it - [i]really[/i] want it - end up going the whole nine yards.

I think what some of you need to realise, is that it isn't a light choice that these people make (except, perhaps, in some Asian countries which make the decision far too easy to make - I'm looking at you Thailand). Coming out of the closet as a cross dresser is hard enough as it is (I should know) - being honest enough with yourself, your family and your friends to say "I feel I'm the wrong gender and would like to change it" would be one of the hardest decisions these people ever face. Telling them that they need to seek 'psychiatric help' is somewhat insulting to them - it would take a lot of courage to even admit it to [u]yourself[/u], let alone let a surgeon irreparably change their genitalia.

All that said, I'm, personally, not interested in the whole procedure. I'm proud of my masculinity, and wouldn't sacrifice it for the world - I cross dress because I prefer the clothing, not because I'd like a vagina.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[different ki]

Hi everyone, I'm a real ive transsexual, female-to-male. (also new here). I have read this thread and would like to make a few comments.

"Personally, I think that anybody who seriously wants to swap genders that badly should seek psychiatric help immediately."

This is what a lot of people don't understand. The sex change IS the "help." They tried using psychiatric therapy to cure people of Gender Identity Disorder (that's the technical name for it) for decades without any success. The sex change is the cure.

"Very few people are truly happy after getting a sex change, and most feel more lost and confused then before they did it."

Where are you getting that from? I've been involed with the trans community for years now and I've only ever heard of one person regretting going through the change. Keep in mind too that psychiatrists have control over sex changes, so if the procedure didn't "work" (make people feel better) they would stop allowing it.

"I heard some lunatic yelling on the Man-Cow radio show about how homosexuality is the default for humans. Renounce the evils of heterosexual marriage! Go gay!"

Homosexuality and transsexuality are two different things. Homosexuality is which gender you are attracted to: transsexuality is what gender you see yourself as. Does every gay person want a sex change? No, obviously they don't or there would be a lot more sex chnanges going on. A lot of transsexuals are homosexual (meaning after they change sex they have relationships with people of the same sex).

A few other things:

Yes, F2M's have to go through the psychiatric procedures as M2F's. F2Ms are easier to diagnose however.

If you think you could spot a transsexual on the street, you're probably wrong. M2F's pass about 90% of the time... For F2M's it's virtually 100%. It really isn't that hard to make people see what you want them to see. I have even heard of men having sex with post-op M2F's without knowing it. (For the record I don't agree with that).

I would be happy to answer any other questions about sex changes or Gender Identity Disorder anyone has.

[Persona]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][QUOTE]People shouldn't be judge because they appear to be male or female but think and act more femmine or masculen that doesn't corrispond with their current gender. Some scientists have found that the human brain sometimes has the chemicals that would classify that person as a female but have the gentials of a male. Scientist can do a test to show what gender you are from the the chemicals working around in your brain. But this can only be done post mordum, whichc doesn't help any on while your still alive but it shows that your brain can be of a different gender but your body took on the opposite.

If people want a sex change then they should be allowed to do as they wish, this a free country. And they should be allowed to do it because they would most likely feel more comfortable as the opposite sex of what they were.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly for this discussion. I personally think that if they choose to be this gender and not the gender (Body) they were born with, is because they feel more comfortable in that role. For example just like crosse dressers (Spelled that wrong I suppose), they feel more comfortable wearing the opposite sex clothing for their own reasons. The same for homosexuality, if they feel more comfortable loving the same sex, then let them be. I do hate it when I hear people say, "Look at that ***", "He's a freak wearing girl clothes", "Ill a [B]HERMAPHRODITE [/B]", and ectera. It's not you is it, so back off. People make it there business, when truly it's not theirs...but what can you do that's how the world is. Sex change is just what they want, because of who they are inside...but not the outside. I probably didn't make any sense, but there are times when you want to say so much...but you can't put it all down.[/COLOR]

[different ki]

Hermaphrodite isn't a derogatory term (as you probably already know) and it certainly doesn't apply to transsexuals or cross-dressers. I think it's funny that some people are so uneducated they can't even get their (attempted) insults right. Even better is that the people who are against sex changes don't want to get educated about it because they know all the evidence contradicts their views. Not that it would matter if it didn't, because like a lot of people said it's a free country.

I am disappointed however that there still aren't really any derogatory names for trannies. You're not on the map until you get your own derogatory name, darn it.

[haru sakurai]

[quote name='Shinji][size=1][color=crimson] Sex change operations? Personally, I think that anybody who seriously wants to swap genders that badly should seek psychiatric help immediately.[/size'][/color][/quote]

uhm... duh?

first things first, let us establish that legally a transperson cannot have gender reassignment surgery without copious amounts of therapy, as well as hormone treatment. they also have to be able to prove they can live in society as their new gender effectively. it isn't like one day an otherwise normal man wakes up and decides he wants breasts, so he gets a sex change. people who decide to transition usually have a condition known as gender dysphoria, and they honestly have feelings of being the wrong gender in the wrong body, and usually this condition causes them a lot of unhappiness with their current situation and body. now, this doesn't necessarily mean a feminine man or a masculine woman. i know tons of transmen who embrace their feminine side and are 'swishy' and there are transwomen who still pride themselves on being able to fix cars or whatever, just like there are degrees of femininity and masculinity in people who identify with their born gender, so it is for transgendered people. whatever their level of 'boyishness' or 'girlishness', they still feel they were born into the wrong body.

as for 'unhappiness after surgery' and 'ineffectiveness', i'd like to see what sources you hear that from. really. the end-product of a MtF surgery is so effective that MtFs can achieve female orgasm, and though it is not quite as effective on transmen (who cannot as of yet achieve erection as born men do), testosterone is so effective on FtMs that they grow beards and with 'top' surgery can easily pass. for many transgendered people, the decision to transition is liberating-- they can finally be who they truly are, and for many it is the end of a lifelong depression. some pass better than others, and i've definitely met some transpeople whom i couldn't tell if they had transitioned. besides, all of you going around saying you'd rather not date a woman who was born male-- what makes you think a transwoman would be interested in dating some one so closed-minded when there are plenty of open-minded men and women who would love to treat them right?

even saying all of that, i realize it is difficult sometimes to understand the point of view of a transperson. how could you understand what it means to feel like something about your body is just wrong, if you've never felt that way? i tend to use this allegory when explaining it to people (and much thanks to the author of [url=http://venusenvy.keenspace.com/]Venus Envy[/url] for first using it). imagine you're a fire fighter. you've been a fire fighter all your life, it makes you very happy to fight fires, and you are good at it. then one day, somebody knocks you over the head, you forget everything, and they make you president of the United States. it's not bad. maybe you're even good at it. maybe there are aspects of that life that make you happy... but in the end, in your heart, you are still a fire fighter and even though you don't quite know why, you know that only being a fire fighter would ever make you happy. it's not that being president is bad... but it's not who you are. that's how a transperson feels, except instead of careers, it is genders.

most of all it is important to remember that transsexuals are people just like anyone else, and just as deserving of love and respect. in general, they have no interest in disrupting the lives of others. so unless you're closely involved with one, their decision to transition really isn't your business.

[different ki]

Well said.

I like to compare how transsexuals feel about their physical bodies to phantom limb syndrome. When you have a limb amputated, the part of the brain that controlled it is still there (obviously). That's why people have the sensation that the body part is still there or they are still moving it. Transsexuals feel the same way... Transwomen have phantom breasts and transmen have phantom penises (peni?)

[Tatsubei Yagyu]

[COLOR=Navy][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Well, I'm not at all against, but I'm not really for the "process..."

I don't care if you're a dude or a chick, if I were you're friend when you were one or the other, then how would what's in your pants change that? Especially if it made you happy. :catgirl:

[quote name='different ki']Transwomen have phantom breasts and transmen have phantom penises (peni?)[/quote]
lol [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Zenriek]

Woah! That's [I]not[/I] just a myth!?

:rolleyes: Nah, I'm kidding.

To each his own. Though it might be a little weird and awkward (sp?) at first for a friend of mine to suddenly say hi to me in a male (or female) body, that's fine. I'd get used to it. Besides, guys are more fun (usually).

Though their personality wouldn't be changed, so they'd be basically the same. Don't judge a book by it's cover, and all that jazz. ;)