Your MATURE opinions on homosexuality

[renayiiq]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']I believe that homosexuality is simply a preference, just like how some people like coffee and others don't, just like how some like broccili and others don't. But some preferences are not good (like alcohol for instance), so people should avoid them.[/color][/quote]

Uhm, I know because I'm bi that it is NOT A PREFERENCE. Thanks for being ignorant anyways, though. You're comparing sexuality, getting teased and emotionally tortured, to COFFEE? To BROCCOLI? Alcohol is not bad. It only becomes bad when you gain addiction. A little drink once in a while isn't so bad, by the way.
And like Random said, WHY would someone CHOOSE to do something that would cause teasing, harder time getting a job, can't be in the military, etc.? Seriously.

[quote name='chabichou][color=#004a6f']I honestly don't understand why people don't see homosexuality as a problem. I'm not saying that we should hate or shun people with homosexual tendancies, but why doesn't our society at least see it as a problem and that these people need help (no offence to homosexuals here). Technically at least, (I'll leave morals out of this), homosexuality is wrong. It goes against the very nature of humans.[/COLOR][/quote]

You can't prove that something is wrong if it involves morales. Homosexuality involves morales. People either personally view it as right or wrong. There is no way to prove it.
It is not a problem. 1.6% of the population is homosexual. HELP? HELP? Excusez-moi? How can you not mean to offend anyone when it obviously is offensive?
Yeah, homosexuality goes against the nature of humans. But so does incest. A lot of things goes against human nature, or any nature, for that matter, but we do these things anyways. Why do we need medical treatment? Why don't we "help" the straight people, and just have adoption and artificial insemination? Huh? That's right, there'd be an uproar. Just like there'd be an uproar if anyone like YOU got into office. I hope you never run for president. You'd be a terrible ruler.
Oh and uhm, not to mention with adoption and artificial insemenation, it would actually decrease the spread of STDs dramatically.

[Dale_Valley]

Well, looks like I?m outnumbered, it?s just you and me, orbindo and Chabichou, I think. I'm a christian from a church i dont really feel like nameing due to fear of flames.
Like orbindo said, I like to look at the past facts; Sodom and Gomorra were both destroyed mainly because of there being so much homosexuality there. Now some1 said that you need to pay more attention to the NT than the OT. Now I am sorry, but the old and New Testaments are equal in importance.
They also said that by doing this, you are becoming a Pharisee because you follow the letter of the law. Now yes, we are all human, we will all make mistakes at some point or other; but isn?t that part of the purpose of life, to overcome the natural man (or woman) in ourselves?
It has also been said that the USA doesn?t have a national religion, but lets look back to the forefathers of our the US. now I don?t have any solid proof off the top of my head at the moment, but if I recall, when you look through their history, there are several instances that it is quite evident that what they had in mind for the future of the marvelous nation they had created, was based on Christian standerds. Have you heard the story of Washington's prayer in Valley Forge?
Also, you say that we are pushing "our Christian beliefs" on other people that don?t share our religion. Now I am not sure, but from my understanding, there aren?t really all that many religions out there, like with Chabichou's, that accept homosexuality save atheism and or Satanism etc. so it?s not really just a Christian thing.
You have said that we are living in the past, let?s look to the future. But really, if it was wrong back then, it really still is wrong now. God's standards don?t change because the world doesn?t think that it?s cool anymore.
Back on the Sodom and Gomorra, yah, the homosexuality was a part of why they were destroyed. Have you ever heard the synonym word for homosexuality, "sodomy"? Yah, its base word is from Sodom.
Now, I really don?t believe that you are born heterosexual, a man can be born more famine or a woman more masculine, but that?s all. They have a choice to be straight or not. Also, I personally know several lesbians that say that if they could find the right man, they would change, and I am sure the same goes with many gays. The truth is that countless gays and lesbians become gay because they experienced bad relation ship with the opposite sex, and are therefore afraid of trying again.
also, without even looking at religoin, you can look at simple biology. if it was meant, the pieces would fit together a little bit better.
Oh yah, and from the biblical poit of view, it was adam and eve, not adam and steve or madam and eve.
and if you cant prove that no one is born gay, can you prove that anyone is born homosexual?
I may have lest something else out, if you want to run any thing else by me, feel
free to ask me. I have no shame or problem with answering your questions.


PS there u can pick on me instead of poor orbindo and Chabichou

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Dale_Valley']Well, looks like I?m outnumbered, it?s just you and me, orbindo, I think. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Or for those of you that don?t know what that is, I am what most people like to call, a Mormon (by the way, if by sum slim chance, some1 else is 1 here, plez pm me). Like orbindo said, I like to look at the past facts; Sodom and Gomorra were both destroyed mainly because of there being so much homosexuality there. Now some1 said that you need to pay more attention to the NT than the OT. Now I am sorry, but the old and New Testaments are equal in importance.[/quote]
I believe Jesus' originally preached to throw away the Laws of Judaism, and remember to just to love thy neighbour. That included the Old Testament. Of course, it's kept on as it is of historical signifigance, and has a lot of good stories and morals (and some bad, but let's not get into that), but I'm pretty sure JC said his new message was more important.
[quote]It has also been said that the USA doesn?t have a national religion, but lets look back to the forefathers of our the US. now I don?t have any solid proof off the top of my head at the moment, but if I recall, when you look through their history, there are several instances that it is quite evident that what they had in mind for the future of the marvelous nation they had created, was based on Christian belief. Have you heard the story of Washington's prayer in Valley Forge?[/quote]
America has no national religion. 78% of the populace are Christian, but that doesn't make it a national religion. Note that number is down 12% since 1990 ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA]wikiproof[/url]). It'd be fair to say that of the 78% that say they're Christian for those surveys, many of them wouldn't be sincere, and only 'believe' in it cause they always have had it in their life. Your country has no national religion - it has a lot of Christian emphasis, but it still has that basic constitutional thing that says "Hey, keep the church out of the state". Why? Cause the whole independence from Britain thing was because they didn't believe in the Church of England controlling the country.
[quote]Also, you say that we are pushing "our Christian beliefs" on other people that don?t share our religion. Now I am not sure, but from my understanding, there aren?t really all that many religions out there that accept homosexuality save atheism and or Satanism etc. so it?s not really just a Christian thing.[/quote]
Christianity is the only real belief pushing it's viewpoint on the world though, so the point is moot. You don't see Hinduism telling the entire world to repent or get ready for reincarnation as a slug.
[quote]You have said that we are living in the past, let?s look to the future. But really, if it was wrong back then, it really still is wrong now. God's standards don?t change because the world doesn?t think that it?s cool anymore.[/quote]
God's fanbase does change though. It's down 12% in America alone, since 1990! :o Why should the entire world have to follow the morals and ruleset of a religion it doesn't necessarily believe in?
[quote]Back on the Sodom and Gomorra, yah, the homosexuality was a part of why they were destroyed. Have you ever heard the synonym word for homosexuality, "sodomy"? Yah, its base word is from Sodom.[/quote]
Sodomy is just the old word for any sex that is deemed 'perverse'. This includes, but is not limited to (by the old definition), felatio, cunninglingus, doggy style, anything where the woman is on top...
[quote]Now, I really don?t believe that you are born gay, a man can be born more famine or a woman more masculine, but that?s all. They have a choice to be straight or not. Also, I personally know several lesbians that say that if they could find the right man, they would change, and I am sure the same goes with many gays. The truth is that countless gays and lesbians become gay because they experienced bad relation ship with the opposite sex, and are therefore afraid of trying again.[/quote]
Your friends are, what's the word, oh that's right, [u]bisexual[/u].
[quote]I may have lest something else out, if you want to run any thing else by me, feel free to ask me. I have no shame or problem with answering your questions.[/QUOTE]
no, I'm good. =][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Dale_Valley]

by the way, i would like to remind every one that this thread is meant for MATURE posting. so if you could, plez try to keep down on the sacasim and extrem critisism.

also, i would like to add that some of my last post is meant for a christian point of view.

and i would also like to point out that in some states, homosexuality has been outlawed. for instance my Texas. im not sure which others have.

[The Newfie]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][QUOTE=orbindo][COLOR=Red]This thread doesnt seem like its heading in the controversial direction.
(time for me to wreck the place)

I am a hardcore Christian(bet some of you just groaned), so i can honestly say that outlawing same sex marriages is a smart move. It is in the bible. Sodom and Gomorrah were two cities that were full of gays and lesbians. Guess what happened to them, both obliterated (or so it says). Eh, but i know that there are different beliefs and religions out there, not trying to insult anyone or anything like that, just sayin what i believe. and its funny to say that government and church should be separated when it was on the morals of the Catholic faith that this country was built on in the first place. Same as trying to take God out of the pledge.

One quick thing tho. There is no possible way for someone to be BORN a gay or a lesbian. Its been proven scientifically to be imposible. so dont believe that for an instant. I heard some guy try to use that dodge and looked it up.

and i really dont think it hinders the ability to be a parent or adoption (truthful thought), but that doesnt mean i think its ok (personal beliefs).

NOW its a controversy.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Religion and politics do not mix. I don't mind Christians themselves, but Christianity (Any religiion, really) is terrible in the government. Look at the Middle Ages. Complete shithole in Europe. Why? Because the Catholic Church was in power. Conversly, the Mid East was prospering. Why? Because they, although Muslim themselves, ruled a modestly secular government. Not a coincidence that the now-Muslim-ruled Mid East isn't exactly a paradise, while the secular west is prospering. Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for some time, and I don't see meteors falling from the sky or any of that what-not, so it's safe to say that there won't be any repeat of Soddom and Gamorrah - now that we've tested the water, why not jump on in? Whatever happened to 'Love Thy Neighbor' anyways?

Anyways, I personally have no problem with homosexuality. It's a life choice, why should I redicule somone for it? They can do whatever they want, as long as they don't try and drag me into it. I have a saying. I'm Pro-Anything-That-Makes-You-Happy-But-Doesn't-Effect-Me-In-a-Negative-Way. As for marriage? Seems to be working out in Canada. Can gay people make good parents? Why not. I mean, there will always be lousy parents and there will always be great ones, why does it matter who they're lovin'?

Oh, and for the person who said homosexuality is outlawed in Texas, that isn't possible. It isn't legal. It isn't possible. It couldn't be allowed. It's ********.

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]As some of you already know, I'm muslim. Hence, I believe that homosexual [B]acts[/B] are forbidden and hated by God. God created men and women to be companions for eachother, and it angers him when either sex ignores them gift of companionship that he has given them.

I was exposed to the idea of homosexuality before I even learned that it was wrong in my religion, before even learning the story of Sodom. Even then I felt that it was wrong and unnatural.

I believe that homosexuality is simply a preference, just like how some people like coffee and others don't, just like how some like broccili and others don't. But some preferences are not good (like alcohol for instance), so people should avoid them.

I honestly don't understand why people don't see homosexuality as a problem. I'm not saying that we should hate or shun people with homosexual tendancies, but why doesn't our society at least see it as a problem and that these people need help (no offence to homosexuals here). Technically at least, (I'll leave morals out of this), homosexuality is wrong. It goes against the very nature of humans.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

If you don't see why it's not outlawed in our society, I'll make it very clear to you: not everyone, least of all the government, are Muslim, and therefore most everyone do not see it as a problem. Most Christian don't see it as a problem either, since [i]most[/i] Christians can make a distinction between the OT and the NT.

One last comment... You Christians (Not Chabichou, since I'm not overly familiar with Islamic history) DO realise that the Old Testement (Where all this Soddom and Gamorrah buisness went on) was during the reign of 'Mean God' (GRRRRRRR!). Than his son Jesus H Christ came down to earth. Enter 'Nice God'. 'Nice God' didn't torch cities or order his minions to kill people, no, 'Nice God' is the 'Love Thy Neighbour' god. Learn the difference. I'm not even Christian and I get it.

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR]

[Dale_Valley]

[QUOTE=The Newfie][COLOR=SeaGreen]


Religion and politics do not mix. I don't mind Christians themselves, but Christianity (Any religiion, really) is terrible in the government. Look at the Middle Ages. Complete shithole in Europe. Why? Because the Catholic Church was in power. Conversly, the Mid East was prospering. Why? Because they, although Muslim themselves, ruled a modestly secular government. Not a coincidence that the now-Muslim-ruled Mid East isn't exactly a paradise, while the secular west is prospering. Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for some time, and I don't see meteors falling from the sky or any of that what-not, so it's safe to say that there won't be any repeat of Soddom and Gamorrah - now that we've tested the water, why not jump on in? Whatever happened to 'Love Thy Neighbor' anyways?

Anyways, I personally have no problem with homosexuality. It's a life choice, why should I redicule somone for it? They can do whatever they want, as long as they don't try and drag me into it. I have a saying. I'm Pro-Anything-That-Makes-You-Happy-But-Doesn't-Effect-Me-In-a-Negative-Way. As for marriage? Seems to be working out in Canada. Can gay people make good parents? Why not. I mean, there will always be lousy parents and there will always be great ones, why does it matter who they're lovin'?

Oh, and for the person who said homosexuality is outlawed in Texas, that isn't possible. It isn't legal. It isn't possible. It couldn't be allowed. It's ********.

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

i apologize, i meant gay marriages, please forgive my mistake, i wasnt paying attention.

[Esther]

[quote=Dale_Valley]the way, i would like to remind every one that this thread is meant for MATURE posting. so if you could, plez try to keep down on the sacasim and extrem critisism.

also, i would like to add that some of my last post is meant for a christian point of view.

and i would also like to point out that in some states, homosexuality has been outlawed. for instance my Texas. im not sure which others have.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=SlateGray]Exactly. So if you cannot handle the critic that you are going to receive, you should have never posted here in the first place. People are only trying to get their point across, they doesn't have to edit everything because you can't handle it.'[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='Chabichou']I believe that homosexuality is simply a preference, just like how some people like coffee and others don't, just like how some like broccili and others don't. But some preferences are not good (like alcohol for instance), so people should avoid them.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=SlateGray][SIZE=1]I agree with renayiiq, you shouldn't compare homosexuality to a vegetable or a drink. That just is not right.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Dale_Valley]

Nobody seems to get it. Evreybody has evil desires as soon as they are old enogh to wish they could kill their teacher or their parents or the bully at school who beats them up. ALL OF US whether we are willing to admit it or not, have evil, or just innappropriate desires from time to time. We just don't act on them because we know they are wrong and we don't want to suffer the consequences or because of other reasons. The prisons are full of people who just don't stop with the desire. T hey act on them. Homosexuals are no different. They simply act on an evil desire that most others suppress. Then they try to justify their actions by saying that they were born that way. It is a big lie. God simply has no tolerance for evil. He cannot. Try finding homosexuality in nature. Other than that which happens by accident, there simply is none. That is because man is the only creature evil enough to disobey natural law. Gender is an imporatant factor in our creation. The relationship between man and woman is fundamental to Gods plan of happiness. Read 1Cor11:11. Nether the man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord. Note here; I am not the actual Dale Valley. I am a freind of his, and a High Priest in the same church of which he is a member.But all the other posts on this thread and site are his.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Dale_Valley]
and i would also like to point out that in some states, homosexuality has been outlawed. for instance my Texas. im not sure which others have.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet][font=lucida calligraphy] I would like to know how exactly Texas has managed to outlaw homosexuality. It's not that I doubt they'd [b] try[/b] to outlaw it. It's just that I wonder [b]how[/b]

What do they do? Go into people's bedrooms and see who's screwing who? Seriously. It's like the military having their rule (I'm serious) about only having sex in the missionary position... how do you enforce something like that? Do you make all the homosexuals relocate? Who pays for that?

Sorry, I know I said that this thread was for mature discussions about people's opinions on homosexuality, but this was too good to pass up.

Seriously Texas WTF?

Oh and about the military's don't ask don't tell policy- I'd like to quote Fallen Angels:

A man beside me in Nam is a man beside me in Nam, what he does in his bed is his own business.

Keep the politics out of people's bedrooms please![/color][/font]

[Dale_Valley]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet][font=lucida calligraphy] I would like to know how exactly Texas has managed to outlaw homosexuality. It's not that I doubt they'd [b] try[/b] to outlaw it. It's just that I wonder [b]how[/b]

What do they do? Go into people's bedrooms and see who's screwing who? Seriously. It's like the military having their rule (I'm serious) about only having sex in the missionary position... how do you enforce something like that? Do you make all the homosexuals relocate? Who pays for that?

Sorry, I know I said that this thread was for mature discussions about people's opinions on homosexuality, but this was too good to pass up.

Seriously Texas WTF?

Oh and about the military's don't ask don't tell policy- I'd like to quote Fallen Angels:

A man beside me in Nam is a man beside me in Nam, what he does in his bed is his own business.

Keep the politics out of people's bedrooms please![/color][/font][/QUOTE]


plez read one of my last posts, i corrected myself.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Dale_Valley']plez read one of my last posts, i corrected myself.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet][font=lucida calligraphy]Oh, yeah I see that. Buit the funny thing is since I did live in Texas and saw some funky stuff happen (a lady who ran an antique shop in a town outside of Austin got run out because she was Wiccan and the sheriff actually is quoted as sayin that she got what she deserved) So why not banning homosexuality?

I believe nearly anything that happens in TX[/color][/font]

[renayiiq]

[quote name='Dale_Valley']Nobody seems to get it. Evreybody has evil desires as soon as they are old enogh to wish they could kill their teacher or their parents or the bully at school who beats them up. ALL OF US whether we are willing to admit it or not, have evil, or just innappropriate desires from time to time. We just don't act on them because we know they are wrong and we don't want to suffer the consequences or because of other reasons. The prisons are full of people who just don't stop with the desire. T hey act on them. Homosexuals are no different. They simply act on an evil desire that most others suppress. Then they try to justify their actions by saying that they were born that way. It is a big lie. God simply has no tolerance for evil. He cannot. Try finding homosexuality in nature. Other than that which happens by accident, there simply is none. That is because man is the only creature evil enough to disobey natural law. Gender is an imporatant factor in our creation. The relationship between man and woman is fundamental to Gods plan of happiness. Read 1Cor11:11. Nether the man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord. Note here; I am not the actual Dale Valley. I am a freind of his, and a High Priest in the same church of which he is a member.But all the other posts on this thread and site are his.[/quote]

You must have been brainwashed with this bull since you were a kid. [...]
Homosexuality is NOT a desire. [...] I think I can live without believing in a god that allows incest, but condemns people for being homosexual and bisexual.
Hey, I had homosexual dwarf hamsters. I'm serious about that, too. There was a female, but they didn't want much to do with her.

Who says that your god even exists? You who go by simple texts, interpreted by man. You who seem to present this being as all powerful and infinitely good. What is all powerful could never be infinitely good. Power is corrupt.
What defines evil? It's just another analogy, good/evil, black/white, day/night, satan/judeo-christian god, etc. It's all the same.
You don't love thy neighbor. You live to convert and make everyone perfect in your sense of the word.
Grow up and realize that your little "values" are now being forsaken, because people are waking up and realizing that you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Have a nice day, while you twist the words of your "good" book.

Oh, and ChibiHorseWoman, you're right. I live here in El Paso (*ahem* El Pisshole). I once read under Texas laws that a man and a woman are the only ones allowed to have sex. I read some article about a couple of homosexual guys, too. They had a little apartment, and the neighbors heard some...well, noises. They called the police, and the police busted in the door. They arrested the two men for same-sex sexual activity. There was a lawsuit, too.

[color=#ff6600]Do not flame. If you can't express your opinions in a civil manner, you don't belong at this forum, and you will be banned. -Lore[/color]

[Dale_Valley]

[QUOTE=renayiiq]You must have been brainwashed with this bull since you were a kid. There's no way someone could be so ignorant. I hate people like you. You only feed off of this biblical CRAP because you were brainwashed when you were a child.
Homosexuality is NOT a desire. Are you that stupid, Mr. High Priest man? Or are you stoned? I cannot figure what is wrong with you. the Lord? Your Lord? He screwed me over, thanks. I think I can live without believing in a god that allows incest, but condemns people for being homosexual and bisexual.
Hey, I had homosexual dwarf hamsters. I'm serious about that, too. There was a female, but they didn't want much to do with her.
Who says that your god even exists? You who go by simple texts, interpreted by man. You who seem to present this being as all powerful and infinitely good. What is all powerful could never be infinitely good. Power is corrupt.
What defines evil? It's just another analogy, good/evil, black/white, day/night, satan/judeo-christian god, etc. It's all the same.
You don't love thy neighbor. You live to convert and make everyone perfect in your sense of the word.
Grow up and realize that your little "values" are now being forsaken, because people are waking up and realizing that you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Have a nice day, while you twist the words of your "good" book.

Oh, and ChibiHorseWoman, you're right. I live here in El Paso (*ahem* El Pisshole). I once read under Texas laws that a man and a woman are the only ones allowed to have sex. I read some article about a couple of homosexual guys, too. They had a little apartment, and the neighbors heard some...well, noises. They called the police, and the police busted in the door. They arrested the two men for same-sex sexual activity. There was a lawsuit, too.[/QUOTE]

all i have to say is that for one, "my" god doesnt really go for incest, thank you very much. there isnt really anything that he doesnt allow. we can do anytihng that we chose. he simpy sets standerds for us to follow, but we dont have to follow them.

and my friend that posted didnt really know this stuff until he was around thirty, from my understanding.

and as for believing, well, that is your own choosing. i will admit that i have always been raised in this religion. but i didnt give a crap about any of it. i only did wat i had to. until i went through a "special experiance". i have a special feeling presence taht testifies to me. im sorry if you dislike people like. i have no problem with you, only with some of your practices. i hope that with time you can come to accept people like me, as people like me have excepted people like you.

and before you say that i havent excepted you because i dont like what you do, what i refer to as acceptance is not disliking a person for who they are.

[orbindo]

[QUOTE=renayiiq] He screwed me over, thanks. I think I can live without believing in a god that allows incest, but condemns people for being homosexual and bisexual.
Who says that your god even exists?...Power is corrupt...What defines evil? Have a nice day, while you twist the words of your "good" book.
[/QUOTE]
Time to repay Dale's favor.
First of all you seem to have had something bad happen to you awhile back and as you believe that you couldnt see God so you blamed him for everything because it seemed easiest, nice.
How can you say power is corrupt when the only "power" youve seen has come from man, who started evil in the first place.
and for your information the bible is the most cited history book in the world.
and there's more proof that Jesus walked the earth than Shakespeare even lived.
so theres more ways to prove that the bible speaks truth, and if it speaks of a God, then there should be one.

[renayiiq]

[QUOTE=Dale_Valley]all i have to say is that for one, "my" god doesnt really go for incest, thank you very much. there isnt really anything that he doesnt allow. we can do anytihng that we chose. he simpy sets standerds for us to follow, but we dont have to follow them.

and my friend that posted didnt really know this stuff until he was around thirty, from my understanding.

and as for believing, well, that is your own choosing. i will admit that i have always been raised in this religion. but i didnt give a crap about any of it. i only did wat i had to. until i went through a "special experiance". i have a special feeling presence taht testifies to me. im sorry if you dislike people like. i have no problem with you, only with some of your practices. i hope that with time you can come to accept people like me, as people like me have excepted people like you.

and before you say that i havent excepted you because i dont like what you do, what i refer to as acceptance is not disliking a person for who they are.[/QUOTE]

[color=#ff6600]Items 1-4 were deleted for flaming. -Lore[/color]

5. why do you follow, when you can lead?
6. well, if you're allowed to do anything, then why's it so bad? I'm sure God is a whore, too. He wanted a virgin.
7. What special experience? I'm thinking things that aren't so good....you need to be put into an asylum. Hearing voices is not a good thing.
8. and if he doesn't go for incest, then why is there so much incest allowedd in the bible, but the gay people were destroyed? HUH?
9. I have a problem with Christians. You know why? They like to try to convert me and "fix" me. Mindless followers of something that they don't even truly understand.
10. I wonder something...what if god's own "son," Jesus, was gay? Would he have killed him, too? I mean, the guy wasn't married, and he was always with other men. Doesn't that make you think? Or are you that empty?

Adieu.

to orbindo:
Couldn't see god? I don't think anyone can see him, in the literal sense. And your god hates me. My God and my Goddess, they love me. Ever since I really got into paganism, I haven't had alot of really bad things happen to me, except people like you trying to convince me that your god is oll korrect. I've stopped cutting myself, I've become happier. Your god never played a part in that. as far as i'm concerned, your god can kiss it. I hate him. When I believed in him, he let bad things happen to me. the blame game is wonderful, but i really do believe that your god sucks arse.
Actually, man didn't start evil, if you remember. It was women. With the help of a handy little serpent. *rolls eyes* I love your silly biblical fairytales. God is a dictator, have you realized that?
The bible is the most cited book because it was one of the first piece of literature to be mass produced. People were converted out of fear, and cite it out of being oblivious. Did you know that your ancestors were probably told "convert or die?" Do you know that? I'll bet you do, but don't care. Because you think that Christianity is so righteous. It's not. Christians have committed murder for "god" for so long. You are the true sinners. bye.

[orbindo]

Ohh this is sure getting heated eh?
fun fun
never had a religeous fight online before

[color=#ff6600]This level of post quality is not acceptable here. If you are not going to add something constructive to the discussion, do not post. -Lore[/color]

[renayiiq]

[QUOTE=orbindo]Ohh this is sure getting heated eh?
fun fun
never had a religeous fight online before[/QUOTE]

I have had many. I always lose because Christians are too incompetent and too self-absorbed to admit any flaws within their religion, and instead devote their lives pointing out what they believe to be flaws in others' lives.

[DeadSeraphim]

[quote name='Dale_Valley']Nobody seems to get it. Evreybody has evil desires as soon as they are old enogh to wish they could kill their teacher or their parents or the bully at school who beats them up. ALL OF US whether we are willing to admit it or not, have evil, or just innappropriate desires from time to time. We just don't act on them because we know they are wrong and we don't want to suffer the consequences or because of other reasons. The prisons are full of people who just don't stop with the desire. T hey act on them. Homosexuals are no different. They simply act on an evil desire that most others suppress. Then they try to justify their actions by saying that they were born that way. It is a big lie. God simply has no tolerance for evil. He cannot. Try finding homosexuality in nature. Other than that which happens by accident, there simply is none. That is because man is the only creature evil enough to disobey natural law. Gender is an imporatant factor in our creation. The relationship between man and woman is fundamental to Gods plan of happiness. Read 1Cor11:11. Nether the man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord. Note here; I am not the actual Dale Valley. I am a freind of his, and a High Priest in the same church of which he is a member.But all the other posts on this thread and site are his.[/quote]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]Care to entertain the notion that not everyone puts absolute faith in a 2000 year old book as to the existence of a God? Maybe you'd like to sit back and respect other's beliefs (or lack thereof)? Could I invite you to realise that not everyone believes in Christianity, that not everyone wants to believe in Christianity, that some people are actually happy and content without religion, and like to construct their own opinions without the aid of an ancient tome of questionable value?

No? I can't? Just checking.[/font][/color][/size]

[orbindo]

[QUOTE=renayiiq]
to orbindo:
I don't think anyone can see him, in the literal sense. And your god hates me. My God and my Goddess, they love me.... Your god never played a part in that.... When I believed in him, he let bad things happen to me....
Actually, man didn't start evil, if you remember. It was women. With the help of a handy little serpent.
The bible is the most cited book because it was one of the first piece of literature to be mass produced...Did you know that your ancestors were probably told "convert or die?" [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]ok well, so many things to contradict. here goes-
Can you see your god and goddess?
God never played a part in your healing because you didnt let him. Believe it or not he gave us free will because he really wanted his creation to love him. If you dont ask him for help he wont.
Bad things happen to people because if they havent turned to Him (God) then the Devil will assault the said person till they turn to him. It's all a part of the devils ploy, and you fell right into it. why did bad things stop happening, because the devil knows he has you and doesnt want to mess with you anymore. he goes to the next athiest or person who doesnt believe in God.
It was both man and women who created evil and sin because Adam could've not taken a bite of the apple. And yes the snake was the devil, hes been at it since the beginning.
About the bible, dont you think that if that was the case, then we would stop looking at it after awhile. Even today the bible is the most cited work of history and such.
And i dont remember early catholics telling people convert or die. when was it and who?

keep posting, this is getting good[/COLOR]

[orbindo]

Oh real quick, if you dont like the religious battle going on here then STOP POSTING AND LOOKING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. FOR THOSE OF YOU WISHING TO POST, THIS HAS TURNED INTO A RELIGIOUS BATTLE GROUND, IF YOU DONT WANT PEOPLE QUESTIONING YOUR BELIEFS AND ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO FIGHT THEN GET OUT
live long and prosper
-Orbindo

[Dale_Valley]

[QUOTE=The Newfie][COLOR=SeaGreen]

I'm going to explain somthing to you, mate. And it is a very slow process, but try and keep up.

Basically, there is the Old Testement. It is a book, and it was written concerning the period of time before the birth of Jesus Christ. This is when all the when all the anti-homosexual and other ignorant **** went down - this is when Soddom and Gomorahh burned, and this is when God was smiteing people for masturbating. Some wierd **** was going on. [URL=http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html]Here[/URL] is a link to a page full of some examples of this crazy stuff. The whole Bible is filled with some pretty insulting stuff (Ex: Every non-Christian is liar and an antichrist. 2:22, 4:2-3, False Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." 2:9). Some sick ****. God also appears to have a very twisted view of 'righteousness', as Lot offers his very own daughters up to a crowd of, get this, rapist... angles. Sound a little nutty? That's what I thought too. He followed that up by turning his wife into a pillar of... salt :animestun

Than we get to the New Testement. Enter 'Jesus Chirst, Superstar'. See, Jesus came here more or less because he felt his dad was being too rough on his people. Things like Soddom and Gomorrah really got to Jesus. So he came to earth - purpose? Well, basically, to moot the Old Testement. Which he did. He made the 'Mean God' into the 'Nice God', so we're all fine and happy and life is good.

Understand? The Old Testement, where all this anti-homosexual whatnot is written, isn't the Word of the 'Nice God', but of the old, frogotton 'Mean God'.

Come off it, eh?

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

ok a little wrong here, the crowd wasnt rapist angels, it was gays from the city trying to "Know" the angles visiting Lot. and his wife turned to salt because she turned to look back at the city, directly disobing and order from God.

[The Newfie]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][QUOTE=orbindo]Time to repay Dale's favor.
First of all you seem to have had something bad happen to you awhile back and as you believe that you couldnt see God so you blamed him for everything because it seemed easiest, nice.
How can you say power is corrupt when the only "power" youve seen has come from man, who started evil in the first place.
and for your information the bible is the most cited history book in the world.
and there's more proof that Jesus walked the earth than Shakespeare even lived.
so theres more ways to prove that the bible speaks truth, and if it speaks of a God, then there should be one.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but... that has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read...

If the Bible is EVER cited as a historical source, it is cited in error. There is absolutly no backing historical evidence of any credit whatsoever that supports any of the Bibles claims... All of the so-called evidence is merely speculation - not a single shred of evidence has ever been discovered prooving that any of the stories of the Bible are true. Perhaps based on historical fact, but exagerated to some rediculously lame level. Even Christmas has been proven rediculous - it supposedly took place in December, but December is the rainy season in the area where Jesus was supposedly born. There would have been no shepards tending their flocks. There is also no record of a Roman emporer ordering a census of the whole Roman people - such an undertaking is rediculous and unnessary. The only Emperor foolhardy enough to undertake it would have been Nero, but he wasn't around then. The sheer resources... It boggles the mind.

Exactly where is this proof of Jesus' existence? The Bible doesn't count, as it in itself has no proof whatsoever to back it.

The Bible is, if you actually read it in depth, such a rediculous tome that I often find myself crusing it's pages in search of a good laugh. Want some examples of things in the Bible that are just rediculous? [url]http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm[/url]

It's too funny to resist.

[quote name='Dale_Valley']ok a little wrong here, the crowd wasnt rapist angels, it was gays from the city trying to "Know" the angles visiting Lot. and his wife turned to salt because she turned to look back at the city, directly disobing and order from God.[/quote]

Ah, my mistake. I confused the word's 'Angle Rapers' with 'Angle Rapists' (See how the Bible can be misinterpreted?). But that still doesn't change the fact that the so-called 'righteous and just' Lot offered up his own daughters to the rapists... and don't say god asked him too, because any good that asks a man to give his daughters a crowd of rapists is a little... well, you know.

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR]

[Dale_Valley]

[QUOTE=The Newfie][COLOR=SeaGreen]

I'm sorry, but... that has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read...

If the Bible is EVER cited as a historical source, it is cited in error. There is absolutly no backing historical evidence of any credit whatsoever that supports any of the Bibles claims... All of the so-called evidence is merely speculation - not a single shred of evidence has ever been discovered prooving that any of the stories of the Bible are true. Perhaps based on historical fact, but exagerated to some rediculously lame level. Even Christmas has been proven rediculous - it supposedly took place in December, but December is the rainy season in the area where Jesus was supposedly born. There would have been no shepards tending their flocks. There is also no record of a Roman emporer ordering a census of the whole Roman people - such an undertaking is rediculous and unnessary. The only Emperor foolhardy enough to undertake it would have been Nero, but he wasn't around then. The sheer resources... It boggles the mind.

Exactly where is this proof of Jesus' existence? The Bible doesn't count, as it in itself has no proof whatsoever to back it.

The Bible is, if you actually read it in depth, such a rediculous tome that I often find myself crusing it's pages in search of a good laugh. Want some examples of things in the Bible that are just rediculous? [url]http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm[/url]

It's too funny to resist.

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

im sorry, to burst ur bubble, but there is a lot o recoreds everywhere that prove that jesus existed. his existance is no longer a question, the question is about his divinity.
and yes i admit i dont know any records that have his existance. but can u prove taht budda or muhamad existed with ur theory?

[orbindo]

[QUOTE=The Newfie] Even Christmas has been proven rediculous - it supposedly took place in December, but December is the rainy season in the area where Jesus was supposedly born...Exactly where is this proof of Jesus' existence? The Bible doesn't count, as it in itself has no proof whatsoever to back it...
The Bible is, if you actually read it in depth, such a rediculous tome that I often find myself crusing it's pages in search of a good laugh[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]OK then, one thing at a time.
Hey, smart one, christmas is misplaced because they had different calendars back then. Any well learned christian or catholic can tell you that Jesus was born in the summer. Dunno when or why december was accepted as the month of Jesus' birth, but you should look it up.
There has been things such as eyewitness accounts of nonfollowers of Jesus, artifacts found of biblical significance, actual kings accounts, and the list goes on.
and let me tell you how i believe. There was a renown scholar (i cant recall his name, but he wasnt catholic) that said that true belief doesnt stem off of science and evidence. to believe is to not see. to truly believe, it has to be unproven or else its not worth your belief. What do i believe? That we were all created by a supernormal being and he watches everyone of us 24/7, he had his son concieved and born of a virgin, that that man had the powers of God himself, that he was resurrected after 3 days of being dead, that there even is a heaven?Yes. i do believe that. In the scientific world this borders on complete lunacy. in a way i believe because it is absurd. and what happens if what i believe isn't tru? what do i have to lose? there's nothing special on this earth for me, i wouldnt mind leaving it. but i would like to hold on to something while im here.[/COLOR]

[The Newfie]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][QUOTE=Dale_Valley]im sorry, to burst ur bubble, but there is a lot o recoreds everywhere that prove that jesus existed. his existance is no longer a question, the question is about his divinity.
and yes i admit i dont know any records that have his existance. but can u prove taht budda or muhamad existed with ur theory?[/QUOTE]

Records? What Records? There is absolutly no evidence of his existence. If by records you mean those absolutly hilarious 'historical documents' that the Catholic Church forged to gain support for Jesus Chirst, than I can do little but laugh at you.

BTW... Buddah was not his name. His name was Taiwanese and I cannot recall it right now, but he was in fact a philosepher and not a prophet. But what does that have to do with anything? No I cannot prove they exist. I do not claim to be able to. You're calling evidence into question I did not even bring up.

[QUOTE=orbindo][COLOR=Red]OK then, one thing at a time.
Hey, smart one, christmas is misplaced because they had different calendars back then. Any well learned christian or catholic can tell you that Jesus was born in the summer. Dunno when or why december was accepted as the month of Jesus' birth, but you should look it up.
There has been things such as eyewitness accounts of nonfollowers of Jesus, artifacts found of biblical significance, actual kings accounts, and the list goes on.
and let me tell you how i believe. There was a renown scholar (i cant recall his name, but he wasnt catholic) that said that true belief doesnt stem off of science and evidence. to believe is to not see. to truly believe, it has to be unproven or else its not worth your belief. What do i believe? That we were all created by a supernormal being and he watches everyone of us 24/7, he had his son concieved and born of a virgin, that that man had the powers of God himself, that he was resurrected after 3 days of being dead, that there even is a heaven?Yes. i do believe that. In the scientific world this borders on complete lunacy. in a way i believe because it is absurd. and what happens if what i believe isn't tru? what do i have to lose? there's nothing special on this earth for me, i wouldnt mind leaving it. but i would like to hold on to something while im here.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

The calender was created by Augustus Ceaser - several decades pre the Birth of Chirst. We had the same calender. Some of the month names have changed, but the calender itself is intact. I have heard that the birth of Christ was moved, but I must ask - why? Why did the early Christians have to tack Christmas onto an old Norse drinking fest (Alas, it is true. Christmas was originally a Viking booze-up. In fact, the Yule Log was an offering to the little-known Norse Goddess of fertillity, Yulea)? The only logical explination is because no one would believe it - but if they had so much proof, why the doubt?

What my point is... you are anti-homosexual. Why are you anti-homosexual? Well, because you're Christian (Apperently). So in essence, you hate somone because of this belief - which I find quite unnecessary. I have no problem with believing there is some higher power, some force above us - I can understand that. What I do not understand is how somone can believe some book written by a few men some thousands of years ago (Much of which was plagerised from older, lesser-known tales. See: The Epic of Gilgamesh), which is utterly absurd.

I don't get it.

:lecture:

'Da Newf

Oowatanite[/COLOR]