Recent banning of old members

[Sandy]

I know this isn't really my business, but as this is the feedback forum, I'd like to compliment on the team of moderators on finding the solution to the long time on-going "pictoral harrassment" (with the lack of a better word) of [B]Brasil[/B], who was just recently banned. I'm talking about [B][URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=51646&page=1&pp=15]this thread[/URL][/B], which boiled down to banning of two members who both have been a part of this forum for a long time.

I just wanted to bring this issue to public discussion, as OB is a real community unlike so many other forums.

So, my thoughts... I was also affected by Brasil's offending posts once or twice, although some might say I deserved it at the time. However, I was sad to see that Brasil could keep offending others and always seemed to get away with it.

I think everybody can admit that those pictures weren't the most nicest thing. Especially when aimed at you.

It's unfortunate that [B]Mitch[/B] - another banned "oldie" member - got carried away while trying to outwit Brazil. They seemed to have a long history of rivalry between them.

Both members have also gained many votes in the OB Nifty Fifty -event, which makes this situation even more absurd.

I'm sure that the mods made the right decision, it's just that old members rarely get banned, so I felt the need to discuss about this some more. This will most probably affect many members here as well...

I personally won't miss Brasil, he never got any respect for me - only pity at most - but still I can't deny the fact that he was a part of this forum for a very long time. Same goes to Mitch as well.

Well, it's not like they died or anything...

Anyway, I'd like to "raise a toast" to Brasil and Mitch, who aren't among us anymore due to their own actions.

Also, it's not like anybody has to answer this, but I'm wondering why [B]Generic NPC#3[/B] was banned? Wasn't he even a mod at one point?

There's apparently many things boiling under the surface of OB, but I feel that talking about them is the best way to deal with them.

What are you peoples' feelings about this issue?

[Retribution]

[size=1]I'm rather apathetic to the banning of Mitch and [b]Brasil[/b], but I was just as puzzled about Generic NPC #3's banning. From what I've been told, he asked to be banned -- I have no idea why, though.

I'm not toasting Brasil. While his written rhetoric was top-notch, he took it too far, more often than not. And while I don't really know him, he didn't seem like a very nice guy - the whole "Mediocrity of the Memberbase" thing was uncalled for.

Mitch, I don't really know him either, but I'm certainly not pitying him. He didn't strike me as a very mean or cruel guy, but he didn't strike me as a particularly nice one either. It's sort of like a distant cousin dying -- you want to feel sad, but you don't, and eventually, you don't care anymore. That's sort of how I feel.

As for Generic NPC #3 banning himself, well, I'm more puzzled than anything else. He seemed popular and nice here. He got plenty of nominations, and he was friends with many people. I can only suppose that he had personal issues with either the people on this site, or felt it was taking too much time away from his life. I'm assuming the former.[/size]

[Drix D'Zanth]

If you ever attend a eulogy, and are asked to speak (or the recently passed come up in conversation) it is quite possibly one of the rudest things to insult the recently deceased. No one has died, sure, but someone?s not with us anymore; and what you have to say is that all you felt was ?pity? and the members ?got what they deserved?? That not only insults them, but it insults their friends- including myself.

Save your toast, and your pity. Mitch?s and Alex?s feud got the best of them and OB has lost two of some of the greatest members it?s ever going to seen. QKT, OB?s guild, is swirling downhill and it?s only a matter until truly dedicated Guild Wars players move on to a newer guild with more active leadership. Mitch?s poetry was actually getting quite good, and his stories were thought provoking; he was a great moderator during the lit forum who worked on staff around the same time I did. I recall us being quick friends. He was a kind, courteous person, who just took the criticism of Alex a bit too seriously.

As for Alex (Brasil), he was my best friend here on the boards. He knows that, we speak all the time on AIM, and we are trying to arrange a convenient time where we?ll be able to meet. The friendship we had was a testament to what?s possible on an internet forum- and Idea that would seem absurd to me before I?d joined. His banning is a loss consoled by the fact that it really doesn?t bother him all that much. I don?t feel so bad for his loss, but for the OB community itself.

We?ve lost three great members for three unique reasons. That?s a shame, really. It?s too bad those involved in this decision weren?t willing to consider a temporary ban before going straight to a perma-ban.

*raises glass*

As virtuous men pass mildly away,
And whisper to their souls to go,
Whilst some of their sad friends do say,
"The breath goes now," and some say, "No,"

So let us melt, and make no noise,
No tear-floods, nor sigh-tempests move;
'Twere profanation of our joys
To tell the laity our love.

Moving of the earth brings harms and fears,
Men reckon what it did and meant;
But trepidation of the spheres,
Though greater far, is innocent.

Dull sublunary lovers' love
(Whose soul is sense) cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
Those things which elemented it.

But we, by a love so much refined
That our selves know not what it is,
Inter-assured of the mind,
Care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss.

Our two souls therefore, which are one,
Though I must go, endure not yet
A breach, but an expansion.
Like gold to airy thinness beat.

If they be two, they are two so
As stiff twin compasses are two:
Thy soul, the fixed foot, makes no show
To move, but doth, if the other do;

And though it in the center sit,
Yet when the other far doth roam,
It leans, and hearkens after it,
And grows erect, as that comes home.

Such wilt thou be to me, who must,
Like the other foot, obliquely run;
Thy firmness makes my circle just,
And makes me end where I begun.

[Sandy]

I actually don't pity Brasil/Alex because he was banned, but because of his manner of getting sick satisfaction from humiliating people - all the while calling it a "reality check" or something like that.

Obviously empathy is an unknown concept to him, at least here at the boards.

I didn't know Mitch very well, but as you said, Drix, their feud got the best of them.

I'm sorry about your "loss" of good friends, but they really had it coming to them. I'm not saying they necessarily deserved it, but they [I]were[/I] warned, as Shy said. They just didn't stop it early enough.

And honestly, I didn't make this thread to insult either Brasil or Mitch, but for a way to people express their feelings about the issue. My feelings towards Brasil might be negative, but I was expecting that some of his friends would write something opposite.

I remember that the previous time OB had to face a similar situation was when Tasis/Zeh was banned for impersonating James. At that time people didn't have any place to write out their feelings, and the uncertainty of what happened bugged me for some while back then.

It's different when old members leave at their own will as opposed to when they are banned. The latter always has some things boiling under it that touch the entire board...

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]While I'm sure that everyone has their own feelings about the situation, it's done and over with. Alex and Mitch have been banned and Tony decided he didn't want to post here any longer for whatever reason, so let it lie. The only thing talking about it here will do is start a big hoopla between those for and against their banning, which is the last thing we need. Both Alex and Mitch have said that it's no skin off their backs, so dropping it would be the best thing.[/color][/size]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=trebuchet ms]Yeah, Tony got himself banned.

[i][21:23] generic npc 2: I kind of go there only out of habit now... For years I went so much that now I type it without thinking. I figured that would help break the habit lol[/i]

As for Mitch and Alex, I was pretty sad when I saw the results of that fight between them. The few words I've exchanged with Alex weren't exactly angry ones, lol. You wouldn't think he was Brasil if you talked to him outside of OB. Or at least it took me a while to figure out who it was.

I remember Mitch from when I originally joined the boards, well, then again, I remember Athena from when I first joined the boards. Not a good way of describing someone, lol. He was very nice to me and back when I used my LJ we had a few conversations through that. I still didn't get to talk to him much, but overall I found him to be an agreeable person. His poetry was amazing and I got few opportunities to tell him this. Drat.

Well, that's my two cents.[/font]

:X Sorry Lady K, you posted while I was typing this, lol.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

On the one hand I'm very tempted to side with Jordan and say that people posting to say that Alex got what he deserved is insulting not only to him but to his friends as well, and I too considered Alex a good friend. But on the other I concede that Lady K is probably right in saying it's better to let sleeping dogs lie over this whole thing, because if we continue to thrash it out it's just going to turn nasty. All in all I think it's best to follow Lady K's advice, those of us who considered Alex a friend will miss him if his ban isn't overturned, and those who didn't like him will continue to think he got what was coming to him. Really it's just down to people's own feelings on the matter.[/SIZE]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I used to consider Alex a friend. We used to get along fairly well, and I had a fair amount of respect for him. In his time here he made some really enlightening posts, some really brilliant stuff. But gradually we stopped talking and, it seemed to me, that he changed. I have seen a lot of very harsh and/or agressive stuff written by him about or to other people in a manner that could only be described as hounding, both on and off the site.

I think it is a shame, because underneath all that venom was a guy entirely capable of decent, thought-provoking posts. His original name was Poisontongue, and I guess that despite all the name-changes he never really left that spirit behind.

As for Mitch, he has been a long-time patron of the boards. He is, dare I say, a historic part of these boards. It's hard to describe what I think of Mitch. We've chatted on the odd occasion, and I regard him as a friend. Again, I have a lot of respect for Mitch, for several reasons.

Some might disagree, but in his own way Mitch was brilliant too. Whilst they are occasionally eratic, many of his poems are several notches above what most often is posted in Anthology, and he modded that section [back when it was Literature] for a pretty long time.

I think a toast is deserved. Both of these members have been large in OB history. But anyone who says that they couldn't see this coming is fooling themselves. I believe that Alex already had several temporary bans under his belt. Too many chances.

And as for Tony leaving.... it sucks, but it's his choice. He too has been what I would consider to be a core part of OB for a long time. Not so much recently, but yeah....[/size]

[Charles]

[center][img]http://dsmedia.ign.com/ds/image/article/614/614464/phoenix-wright-ace-attorney-20050516010041236.jpg[/img]
[/center]




[quote name='Gavin][size=1']Interesting, most interesting.[/size][/quote]Why do people always say this phrase here? Interesting, [i]most [/i]interesting. Jesus H Christ, it sounds like bad dialogue from a kung fu movie. Thank goodness no one seems to say that in common conversation in real life.

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you Gavin. Just--that--phrase. I rank it right up there with people signing their posts on my pet peeves list. [i]Interesting [/i]most [i]interesting. [/i]Gah.

Anyway, yes onto the objection. I've been around the block a few times as a staff member and I've seen plenty of old members get banned. I've even seen people working on the staff get banned. There's nothing unbelievable about it that needs to be discussed. Although it's natural for the staff to be lenient towards older members who have contributed a lot to the community, they're not above the rules. I don't find this concept too complex. I do find the concept of dealing nothing but permanent bans a bit silly in retrospect, but it's just the way things are. Hopefully that form of punishment will evolve eventually to a system that allows temporary bans for situations like this.

In any case, I think that this will teach members a valuable lesson about gimmick infringement. I post the pictures around here.

But, whatever. I see this thread as a cowardly attempt to cast stones at someone who isn't able to respond. Let's be honest. That's what it is. Both Mitch and Alex were banned. Why create a thread just to gossip about them or insult either or them? It's very rude and you should find nicer ways to kiss up to the staff in the near future. In an ideal world though Sandy, you too would also hop aboard the "Banned Wagon."

[center][img]http://home.earthlink.net/~zolanhunter/images/BanHim.jpg[/img][/center]

[Random]

The funny thing, Charles, is the fact that images like that contributed to both Brazil's and Mitch's bans...just stating a fact.

Anyways, besides that one fact, I'd have to agree with you. Although someone's been on the boards for a long time, and has contributed alot to the boards, it doesn't make them above the rules. I personally didn't know any of the mentioned, but I read their posts in the short time that I've been here. They were, in a sence, "asking" for it...but alot of what they said, once you got past the "flaming," was actually quite intelectual.

On that note, it's a shame that they decided to let their bickering go to far, and because of it we've lost a couple of the best debaters I've seen on any site like OB.

That's my two cents, not that it really matters...but I think that the basic idea behind this thread has been completed, and, as Lady Katana has said, I think that it's better left alone...this will only promote flaming towards others, and that's obviously what OB's not about.

-Rickky

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Charles]Why do people always say this phrase here? Interesting, [i]most [/i] interesting. Jesus H Christ, it sounds like bad dialogue from a kung fu movie. Thank goodness no one seems to say that in common conversation in real life.

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you Gavin. Just--that--phrase. I rank it right up there with people signing their posts on my pet peeves list. [i]Interesting [/i]most [i]interesting. [/i]Gah.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]No offence taken Charles, when I read that though I honestly had to laugh as a lot of people genuinely won't admit how annoyed they are by those two little words, as interesting is repeated. It seems however given the length of time I've been used the phrase that people have just become accustomed to it, and as I've even observed in one or two threads, willing to use it themselves. [/SIZE]

[Charles]

[quote name='Gavin][size=1']No offence taken Charles, when I read that though I honestly had to laugh as a lot of people genuinely won't admit how annoyed they are by those two little words, as interesting is repeated. It seems however given the length of time I've been used the phrase that people have just become accustomed to it, and as I've even observed in one or two threads, willing to use it themselves. [/size][/quote]Haha I'm glad you're not angry or anything. I really thought about coming back in here and deleting it because I knew it made me sound like a jerk. I don't actually mind it to a point where it disturbs me or anything but it's one of those things that you see dozens of times and finally have to comment on it.

[quote name='Random']The funny thing, Charles, is the fact that images like that contributed to both Brazil's and Mitch's bans...just stating a fact.[/quote]No, it isn't images like that that contributed to their banning. I've been posting images on this site for years. When I was a normal moderator for the Sony forum, I used to post an image of a gavel when I closed threads. I enjoyed it and integrated it even more into my posting style. So, I know what I'm doing. I don't post images with explicit swearing and mine are generally funny to the point where members see that I'm posting them in good spirits--just for humor's sake.

Anyway, yeah, this thread should be put to rest. I can see why people would want to discuss the banning of older members but the way in which the thread was executed was terrible and unfair. Let's say that Sandy was banned for whatever reason. Would it be right for me to make a thread as his expense while he couldn't respond just so that I could kiss up to the moderators? The way in which Alex went out was negative and I think people should generally give him credit for the positive qualities he brought to the boards. Mitch wanted to get banned and he doesn't care. So, I don't think anyone needs to "pity" either of them, as silly as that sounds in the first place.

[Sandy]

I'm sorry you feel that way, Charles, but I wasn't trying to kiss-up anybody (that's simply something I don't do) - I just wanted to stir up a conversation about this issue that has obviously touched many people.

It's not like the moderators are the only ones entitled to discuss bans, is it? And because I'm not close friends with anybody here at OB and don't do AIM, creating threads like this is the only way for me to discuss (or "gossip" if you wish) about things.

I thought OB was an open community, but apparently it's just a gathering place for different cliques who don't tolerate "outsiders". *tries his best not to make himself a martyr*

So I wasn't the most polite in my wordings? I can honestly whip out the language-card again - you guys just don't seem to understand that my English vocabulary is very limited compared to yours, despite how good my grammar seems to be!

Alas, I'm tired (it's 2.44 AM here), so nothing decent will come out of me now.

I seems I made a mistake by creating this thread, but I've learned my lesson now. Delete this thread, lock it, whatever.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I haven't read this entire thread, as I have limited 'net access right now, but I did want to make a couple of comments.

First of all, almost every ban is discussed by the staff as a group. I generally don't get very involved in that stuff these days and usually the final decision will rest with Dagger, Desbreko or one of the other senior staff. Quite often I will allow a ban to go ahead without any discussion at all, because we have guidelines as to what we'll ban people over and what we won't.

In regard to this particular situation, Alex and Mitch have obviously been going at each other for a long time and generally it hasn't been a huge problem. Usually I'm happy to just have off-topic posts deleted so that the entire thread isn't dragged down. But obviously, despite repeated warnings, rules have been broken. Generally those violations have been pretty minor and even the arguments they've had have often still related to the topic (so they've been fiery debates, but not exactly rule-breaking fights).

But due to the latest thread, the issue came up for discussion and I basically told the rest of the staff to do whatever they felt was right - if that meant banning older members, so be it. I figure that if someone is warned, we certainly can't be held responsible for their continued violations of rules.

In some cases, I will go in an overturn a ban if I feel it hasn't been justified or whatever. But that's pretty rare. Usually I support the decisions made by staff, especially when they've discussed it amongst themselves.

I think the underlying point is that we'll always try to give someone several chances and we'll try to be as fair as we can. But at the end of the day, if it's becoming too much of a problem, we'll always move to keep the site clear from misbehavior, even if it means banning older members.

And yeah, Tony asked to be banned. I think people sometimes overestimate the level of subversive stuff that goes on among staff, lol.[/font]

[Desbreko]

[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']And yeah, Tony asked to be banned. I think people sometimes overestimate the level of subversive stuff that goes on among staff, lol.[/font][/quote][color=#4B0082]Heheheh. The [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=35704][u]DailyOtaku[/u][/url] is working. ;)[/color]