Love Insight

[2010DigitalBoy]

Part A: Energy Crisis

A hell of a lot of people have a hard time with love. Well, I was reading a book recently ([I]The Celestine Prophesy[/I]) which made some good points. I'd like to get into the deeper points made in this book, but that's for a different thread (which I plan on starting once I finish the other books in the series)

You see, according to this book (and this is highly considered to be truth, personally, I believe it) all things in this world have energy. It's not easy, but it is possible to see this energy (tested and proven). Everyone has energy levels, and you feel better when you have lots of energy. One way of taking energy is from your environment, the earth, the planet, the galaxy. This is how, according to the book, we are meant to obtain happiness.

But, we mostly take our energy from other humans. For instance, lets say two people are in an arguement. The one who is making a point tries to steal energy from his opponent. The opponent, by looosing his energy, feels the need to get it back by way of making his own point. Hence, an arguement sparks up, fueled by both people trying to get energy from each other.

Whenever someone feels down or irritable, (I.E. Low on energy) they want some way to get energy. They may be mad, or they may seek the comfort of a loved one...

Part B: Getting Addicted to people

Often, two people find themselves to have things in common or an attraction to each other. They feel good when around each other. This is because that person fills them with energy. When two people both share energy, they feel worderful, or as some of us like to say, "love".

Thing is, when two people begin to fall in love, they crave it, they become addicted to the energy they get from that person. But it almost never works out. The thing is, both of them can't give the amount of energy the other craves without making sacrifices. BIG sacrifices usually. And while it turns out good for some, and yeah, most will stay together anyway, it never is quite the same as it first was.

It is possible for people to have a lasting, working relationship, but the key is to be balanced between taking energy from that person and taking it from the cosmos, and being able to make sacrifices.

RELATIONSHIPS AREN'T EASY but they CAN work. I hope this all makes sense.

So, thoughts? Opinions?

[bankotsu10]

I get it,I think it all sounds pretty cool......sorry I dont really have an opinion.

[Sayuri-sama]

well personally that whole thing sounds bizzare to me. there is no science to love so just keep it simple. and if its energy you need come to me!! im like a hyperactive enery drink...or something..........-:animeswea

[Guest kuroinuyoukai]

Ok so I don't know about anyone else but I really don't believe this. Sorry Tical.

I think people feel down due to lack of certain hormones(Biology people help me out here). The low hormone levels make you feel bad therefore most of the time the person is given antidepressants with hormones in them.

this energy that can be seen- could it possibly be body heat on an infrared camera? i just think that love and emotions are due to biological facts-not chakra or karma. Of course this is just my opinion. I am by no means an expert in this.

[Retribution]

[size=1]Is this whole energy thing a big unsupported theory? I mean, it sounds [i]interesting[/i], but there's no need for the word 'energy' in any of this. I think the whole love thing is plausible, but I don't think that the two partners are giving one another any energy -- spiritual or otherwise.

Hypothetically speaking, the two partners would give as much as they take, and as a result, no one would get tired. However, this isn't usually the case, and so one leaves because they're giving too much. Sounds to me like that's not a matter of energy exchange, but rather, a one-sided relationship where one party is sacrificing too much. These sacrifices don't need to be energy -- they could be things like doing the dishes, or compromising. I don't see any expenditure of energy in either of those cases.[/size]

[Sora]

I agree with both kuroinuyoukai and ? Nomad Tical ?. I mean both ideas make sense, and as in alot of things dealing with science and religion, both work together, though sometimes people don't realize it. I'm leaning more toward the scientific/biological point of view as that's the hard stuff that can be proven, but in situations I've known of, a person's hormones were screwed up, thus messing with them psychologically and thus giving them what Tical would call an "energy low?" They then went out to scream at people and attempt to kill people randomly and had plotted out how they would do it at times (which would technically make him insane but,) in Tical's view (sorry of refering to *your* point of view, but just so people know what I'm talking about) he's be trying to steal other people's energy. It's what I guess can be refered to as a "biological energy disorder". He's now on medicine and is alot better and you wouldn't know he had those problems if nobody had told you. The medicine stablizes him, giving his body the ability to restore a portion of it's natural energy. Both reasonings can coexist, as people can have more than one reason for doing things. I hope I didn't lose anyone, I have a way of doing that when I can't really find words to define what I'm trying to say... I should work on my vocabulary ^.^

[2010DigitalBoy]

I always keep a card up my sleeve, just for this reason.

Part C: Hormones

Of course, everyone needs to have a certain balance of hormones to keep their energy intact. This is why we comonly seek people of the opposite genders to make us happy, as their hormones balance out our own. Here, let me give a direct quote from the book itself... (note that 'The Manuscript' is a fictional document from which the characters learn the insights)
ALSO: read the whole thing before making opinions
___________________________________________________________________

"In any family, a child must recieve energy from adults in his life. Usually, identifying with and integrating the energy of a same-sexed parent is accomplished easily, but receiving energy from the other parent can be difficult because of the difference in the sexes.

"Let's use a female child as an example. All the little girl knows as she first attempts to integrate her male side is that she is extremely attracted to her father. She wants him around and close to her all the time. The manuscript explains that what she really wants is male energy---because this male energy completes her female side. From this male energy she recieves a sense of completion and euphoria. But she mistakenly thinks that the only way to have this energy is by sexually possesing her father and keeping him close physically.

"Interestingly, because she intuits this energy as her own and thinks she should be able to command this energy at will, she wants to direct the father as if she were part of herself. She thinks that he is magical and perfect and able to supply her every whim. In a less than ideal family, this sets up a power conflict between the little girl and her dad. Dramas are formed as she learns to posture herself in order to manipulate him into giving her the energy she desires.

"But in an ideal family, the family would remain uncompetitive. He would continue to relate honestly and have enough energy as to supply her unconditionally even though he can't do everything she asks. The important thing to know here, in our ideal example, is that the father would remain open and communicative. She thinks he is ideal and magical but if he honestly explains who he is and what he's doing and why, then the little girl can integrate his particular style and abilities, and proceed past the unrealistic view of her father. In the end she will see him as just a particular human being, with his own talents and faults. Once this true emulation takes place, the child makes an easy transition from receiving opposite-sex energy from her father to receiving all energy from the universe at large.

"The problem," she went on, "is that most parents, up tto now, have been competing with their own children for energy, and that has effected all of us. Because this competition was taking place, none of us have quite resolved the opposite-sex issue. We're all stuck at the stage where wer are still looking for our opposite-sex energy outside ourselves, in the person pf a male or female we think of as ideal and magical ans can posess sexually. See the problem?"

___________________________________________________________________

If anyone would like to now about the parents competing for energy, I can give you that insight too. (this one is part of the Eighth Insight)

[Retribution]

[quote name='? Nomad Tical ?']"Let's use a female child as an example. All the little girl knows as she first attempts to integrate her male side is that she is extremely attracted to her father. She wants him around and close to her all the time. The manuscript explains that what she really wants is male energy---because this male energy completes her female side. From this male energy she recieves a sense of completion and euphoria. But she mistakenly thinks that the only way to have this energy is by sexually possesing her father and keeping him close physically.[/quote]
[size=1]What is this, a Freudian Oedipus Complex gone backwards? I mean ? this type of thing has been completely and thoroughly debunked. Normal, healthy children do not want their parent in a sexual way. Freud said basically the same thing, and frankly, I think he was trying to make himself feel better when he realized he wanted to have sex with his mother by saying ?Well, it?s normal ? everyone is the same way!? A little girl doesn?t want to sexually possess her father.

Like I said, the word ?energy? isn?t really necessary in this case either. I think you?re talking about a hormonal drive that makes humans want to have sex with someone, which isn?t really all that active during childhood.

[QUOTE]"Interestingly, because she intuits this energy as her own and thinks she should be able to command this energy at will, she wants to direct the father as if she were part of herself. She thinks that he is magical and perfect and able to supply her every whim. In a less than ideal family, this sets up a power conflict between the little girl and her dad. Dramas are formed as she learns to posture herself in order to manipulate him into giving her the energy she desires.[/QUOTE]
Not really. In a family where the girl knows her place and understands that ?that?s just the way it is,? the girl wouldn?t try to posture herself to manipulate anyone. I know many girls who are mild enough to just accept their father?s law, despite a disagreement. Also, the girl doesn?t desire ?energy? ? she desires a car, a cell phone, more freedom, a boyfriend.

[quote]"But in an ideal family, the family would remain uncompetitive. He would continue to relate honestly and have enough energy as to supply her unconditionally even though he can't do everything she asks.[/quote]
You?ve got to be joking here. In an ideal family, the father would cave into his daughter?s every whim? That results in a corrupted child, not a perfect family. If you do as much as you can for a child, how would that make that child turn out? I mean, my parents [I]can[/I] do the dishes, the trash, and the laundry, but they [I]shouldn?t[/I] if they have able-bodied children to do it. And if the father can?t give his daughter everything she asks for, how is that relationship ?ideal? according to you?

[quote] The important thing to know here, in our ideal example, is that the father would remain open and communicative. She thinks he is ideal and magical but if he honestly explains who he is and what he's doing and why, then the little girl can integrate his particular style and abilities, and proceed past the unrealistic view of her father.[/quote]
Actions speak louder than words. This is why your statement doesn?t practically work with children. If I give my daughter a lollypop every time she asks for it, but each time say ?I?m giving this to you because you deserve it,? the child will eventually come to understand that I accept bratty behavior. Explaining to the child something won?t work, when you turn around and hand them a lollypop anyway to show their success ? they take it as a battle won. They internally note that ?[fill in behavior] will still allow for me to get a lollypop.?

A father shouldn?t be your version of ?ideal.? Every daughter on the planet would want to be treated like a queen, and end up throwing a tantrum when they weren?t. They would never proceed past the unrealistic view of their father, because their unrealistic view of their father was reinforced by a perpetual supply of rewards for poor behavior.

[quote] In the end she will see him as just a particular human being, with his own talents and faults.[/quote]
That?s terrible. A daughter should see her father as more than a particular human being with talents and faults. A daughter should see her father as a man in her life that loved her sincerely, protected her, picked her up when she fell, put band-aids on her cuts, and read her bed-time stories. Not as some guy with good stuff and bad stuff about him.

[quote]"The problem," she went on, "is that most parents, up tto now, have been competing with their own children for energy, and that has effected all of us. Because this competition was taking place, none of us have quite resolved the opposite-sex issue. We're all stuck at the stage where wer are still looking for our opposite-sex energy outside ourselves, in the person pf a male or female we think of as ideal and magical ans can posess sexually. See the problem?"[/quote]
I really don?t. I see the ?problem? of us wanting ?opposite-sex energy? as a primal drive to want to have sex. It?s a hormonal thing, not an energy thing. When a hot girl walks down the street in a short skirt and a tight shirt, I?m not looking to steal her energy ? I?ll tell you that much. [/size] ;)

[ForgottenRaider]

...and the psychotropic drug industry successfully introduces a new generation to its customer base.

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=teal]*falls in love with Retribution and Forgotten Raider, thereby taking their energy and being able to reach Super Saiyan lvl 4* j/k

I would just like to point out that, as Retribution mentioned, this all sounds like Freudian theory (with a fair mix of Jung) gone wrong. Whoever wrote that book is probably familiar with both psychologists and then twisted their ideas.

In Freudian theory, the energy you are referring to is cathexis, emotional or mental energy dedicated to another thing, person, or even idea. It's your own energy, and what you invest hopefully gives a positive feedback loop that makes you want to devote more energy because the first instance was "a good investment," so to speak. There is no transfer of energy - at least according to Freud.

The Jung aspect can be seen in your daughter and father example. While Freud didn't focus on women in his theory, he did have some proposals. In your example, Freud would say that the daughter feels like she lacks something, and knows that the father has it. This phenomenon is called penis envy. I don't remember how it is resolved, but I think (THINK) it is solved in a similar fashion as the Oedipus complex.

The problem here is where you say she needs to complement her female energy with male energy. That's total Jung right there, but a huge problem persists: individuation is a process that comes around middle age. There's support (not evidence, only support) in the fact that everyone goes through a mid-life crisis - that was Jung's argument. However, there's no documented "crisis" little girls or boys go through that is similar to a mid-life crisis.

In short, what I'm trying to say is, while whatever that book says is interesting and different from its sources (i.e., Freud and Jung), it's poor in that there's no support for any of this. Unless there's been a lot of groundbreaking research in the field of psychology and parapsychology that has missed the eyes of everyone, there's no weight to the book.[/COLOR]

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS][quote name='AzureWolf][/font][color=teal]This phenomenon is called penis envy. I don't remember how it is resolved, but I think (THINK) it is solved in a similar fashion as the Oedipus complex.[/color'][font=Trebuchet MS][/quote] As far as I remember, Freud didn't explicitly talk about the female version of the Oedipus complex, but other psychoanalysts have extrapolated from his theories and come up with the "Electra complex". Electra hero-worshipped her father to the extent that when her mother murdered him, she got her brother Orestes to murder her mother in revenge. It's not quite as extreme as Oedipus marrying his mother, but she certainly had a lot of love for her old dad.
[/font]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo]Retribution, Forgotten Raider and AzureWolf have it right. The Celestine Prophecy is nothing more than a new age work of fiction, it is in no way true or very accurate. Not only is it full of glaring mistakes but the ideas presented are not new but merely twisted or borrowed from other ideas. Take this passage:

[INDENT]?I could imagine the moon having already dipped below the horizon, and the exact reflected shape it would present to those who lived further west and could still see it. Then I imagined how it would look when it moved directly under me on the other side of the planet. To the people there, it would appear full because the sun over my head would shine past the Earth and strike the moon squarely.?
[/INDENT]
In this case the author actually believes or imagines that the moon dips not due to the rotation of the Earth but to the moon?s orbit around the Earth. The moon does circle the Earth but that is not what makes it set. It takes the moon almost one month to orbit around the Earth. It spends so much time on the other side, or any side, that it does not look all that different to all the longitudes of the world when they take turns watching it in the course of the twenty-four hours it takes the Earth to rotate once on its axis. The author has misunderstood even the most basic teaching of astronomy.

I?m not the only one to see the problem with this and it?s not the only mistake in the book. I can recommend a book that touches on why people would even believe this book:

Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time By Michael Shermer.

Just read the chapter ?How Thinking Goes Wrong? The author explores the idea of coincidences in superstition. [/COLOR]

[renayiiq]

[quote name='? Nomad Tical ?']"Let's use a female child as an example. All the little girl knows as she first attempts to integrate her male side is that she is extremely attracted to her father. She wants him around and close to her all the time. The manuscript explains that what she really wants is male energy---because this male energy completes her female side. From this male energy she recieves a sense of completion and euphoria. But she mistakenly thinks that the only way to have this energy is by sexually possesing her father and keeping him close physically.[/quote]

Ew, no. That is the most disgusting thing that I've ever heard, and I must disagree. Children do not manifest any form of sexual possessiveness. They're innocent. Well, some aren't...but those are the little psycho children who kill their siblings.

[quote name='? Nomad Tical ?']"Interestingly, because she intuits this energy as her own and thinks she should be able to command this energy at will, she wants to direct the father as if she were part of herself. She thinks that he is magical and perfect and able to supply her every whim. In a less than ideal family, this sets up a power conflict between the little girl and her dad. Dramas are formed as she learns to posture herself in order to manipulate him into giving her the energy she desires.[/quote]

Uhm, whoever really thought of this originally must have been on some serious pot. Not your regular pot...really jacked up pot, soaked in rubbing alcohol twice and then re-dried. Ew. And I completely disagree with this quote as well. Just..no. So wrong.

[quote name='? Nomad Tical ?']"But in an ideal family, the family would remain uncompetitive. He would continue to relate honestly and have enough energy as to supply her unconditionally even though he can't do everything she asks.[/quote]

Uhm, no. Read what Retri said. That's exactly my p.o.v on this.
Speaking of Retri:

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']That?s terrible. A daughter should see her father as more than a particular human being with talents and faults. A daughter should see her father as a man in her life that loved her sincerely, protected her, picked her up when she fell, put band-aids on her cuts, and read her bed-time stories. Not as some guy with good stuff and bad stuff about him.[/size][/quote]

Uhm...does that mean that I'm a bad daughter? I don't see him as any of those things except reading bedtime stories...He's just been kinda there, criticized the hell out of me, when I would fall and get cuts and scrapes he'd just call me a big baby and tell me to stop crying, he told me to get up and wouldn't pick me up when I fell ( in both phys. and emo. ways), has never really "protected" me, and I've never felt particularly loved by him. He really is just some guy with good stuff and bad stuff about him who puts a roof over my head, gives me food, only gives me clothes when my mom nags him, and hardly likes to spend any money on me, except for things that are stupid.

Anyways, I think that this is a horrible evaluation of any form of humanity. *shakes head*

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=renayiiq]Uhm...does that mean that I'm a bad daughter? I don't see him as any of those things except reading bedtime stories...He's just been kinda there, criticized the hell out of me, when I would fall and get cuts and scrapes he'd just call me a big baby and tell me to stop crying, he told me to get up and wouldn't pick me up when I fell ( in both phys. and emo. ways), has never really "protected" me, and I've never felt particularly loved by him. He really is just some guy with good stuff and bad stuff about him who puts a roof over my head, gives me food, only gives me clothes when my mom nags him, and hardly likes to spend any money on me, except for things that are stupid.

Anyways, I think that this is a horrible evaluation of any form of humanity. *shakes head*[/QUOTE]
[size=1]Nope, it doesn't make you a bad daughter. I meant that a daughter should remember her father that way, [i]assuming her father acted as a father should.[/i] Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like in your case, your father hasn't and isn't doing all the things he should for you, or maybe it's just a skewed view of the world coming from you -- I really have no idea.[/size]

[2010DigitalBoy]

O_o I think you guys may have misconstreud a few of those lines.

When it said 'sexually possessing' the father, it didn't mean that way, ew!

And by little girl it meant, like 5 year olds, as one of the charachters was a little girl.

T_T You guys made this book sound evil, now I'm scared of it, and it seemed so innocent too... screw it, I'm not meddling with psychological crap anymore.

[Horendithas]

[quote name='? Nomad Tical ?']T_T You guys made this book sound evil, now I'm scared of it, and it seemed so innocent too... screw it, I'm not meddling with psychological crap anymore.[/quote][COLOR=Indigo]The problem with the book is that people are taking it for truth when it is a work of fiction. Believe me you?re not the first person I?ve run into who thought that on some level it was real and what makes it worse is all the publicity has the author himself believing in the fiction that he wrote, I mean this guy actually wants to, and I quote, ?actively build a kind of community ? an association, if you will, of those who see the vision. If you find yourself reading this, and you feel the same way, email us, and we will tell you what we have in mind.?

Quite frankly that?s a bit ridiculous when you consider it?s not the truth. There?s a word for such things? Cult. I wouldn?t let it scare you away though, from a psychological point of view it is interesting to read, so long as you keep in mind that it?s just a work of fiction.
[/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=Indigo]The problem with the book is that people are taking it for truth when it is a work of fiction. Believe me you?re not the first person I?ve run into who thought that on some level it was real and what makes it worse is all the publicity has the author himself believing in the fiction that he wrote, I mean this guy actually wants to, and I quote, ?actively build a kind of community ? an association, if you will, of those who see the vision. If you find yourself reading this, and you feel the same way, email us, and we will tell you what we have in mind.?

Quite frankly that?s a bit ridiculous when you consider it?s not the truth. There?s a word for such things? Cult. I wouldn?t let it scare you away though, from a psychological point of view it is interesting to read, so long as you keep in mind that it?s just a work of fiction.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Well, you see, the 3rd book he wrote says all the same stuff as the first 2, but it isn't fiction. He says that it is real. Which is why I kinda thought it was.

Though personally, after reading the second book, I don't like the theory anymore.