Anime Gundam Franchise getting stale?

[ManjoumeThunder]

[COLOR=Blue]Well lets get started this is my first topic, so bear with it. Unlike the nature of other generic topics you'll see at message boards from newbs. I hope to bring some insightful articles here. First up I'd like to discuss a franchise that has been going strong for generations now Gundam, some fans of the show might agree with me while others may want to throw stones at me but please bear with it.

[B]The State of Gundam:[/B]

I've been a Gundam fan since the first time I saw Amuro get into the RX-78 and from that moment I was hooked on the Gundam Franchise. Granted Gundam has not been the most stable of franchises. It's often had several failures along with several success stories. Some titles that come to mind when I think of success would be naturally Gundam Zeta and Double Zeta, along with a fan favorite of many Gundam Wing which is where most of the new generation of Gundam fans started and moved on to Gundam X. However at times Sunrise really just drops the ball on certain series none more painful to watch then Mobile Fighter G-Gundam.

However gradually after Turn A Gundam, I decided to take a long deserved break from the franchise. Only to later come back in thanks to a friend of mine that was kind enough to lend me Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny. And so we get into the topic at hand. After watching almost a good 104 plus episodes combiding both series I just can't help but feel a little cheated. What happened to the once favorite mech anime series of mine?

I know a lot of people are really consumed with Gundam Seed and it's counter part but I just can't for the love of me get it. It fails on a lot of levels to really create anything new for the Gundam Franchise. It tries on many levels to basically just recreate the original Gundam series and Zeta series but I feel it doesn't really have the same impact of story telling like the older series did.

It just feels like watching Kira and his counterparts is watching an episode of "degrassi junior high". As I sat and watched the series I was entertained by the action but the characters and their inner workings just didn't make me feel too much for them like I had with other Gundam Characters. Also I can't help feel they really didn't try to appeal much to the older gundam fan generation. It seemed like the creator of these series were more focused on appeasing and creating a "fangirl" anime then keeping true to what made Gundam successful. So overall this poses my question for this topic? Do you feel that the Gundam Franchise is starting to fail? If you agree please explain if you don't agree please explain as well?

Also from what I've heard they're intending to do another Gundam Seed spinoff. What do you think about this? Should the Sunrise team perhaps move on to another project and just let this series end. Even the creators of Wing knew when to quit. [/COLOR]

[KatanaViolet]

Because your a new member, I can forgive you for that blasphemy. :catgirl:

SEED is the first part of the Gundam Franchise that I've ever gotten into, so I can't really compare it to anything else. I quite enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to the new spinoff, whenever it does make its appearence. Since I don't know about the Gundam franchise enough to make a completely valid argument against you, I'll note that SEED Destiny should be coming out in N.America within the next 5 months, I believe.
Yes, I am stoked.

[Delta]

[COLOR=#656446][SIZE=1]Nay, KV, 'tis not blasphemous to note the shortcomings of SEED. ^^

What was it that made Gundam so successful? Was it the outstanding mecha designs and concepts that were like breaths of fresh air to a generation numbed by five-man robot teams? Was it the shaky alliances and rivalries between various political organizations (certainly more interesting to watch than, say, a dull battle between Bozanians and Earthlings)? Or was it the characters who we saw maneuvering mechas with god-like piloting skillz, and erring as normal humans do at the end of the day?

All of those could be found in the Gundam series, past and present, Mobile Suit Gundam to Gundam SEED. The format, the animation and the creators may have changed, but all of them were true Gundam series at the core.

[quote name='ManjoumeThunder][COLOR=Blue']Also from what I've heard they're intending to do another Gundam Seed spinoff. What do you think about this? Should the Sunrise team perhaps move on to another project and just let this series end. Even the creators of Wing knew when to quit. [/COLOR][/quote]No. You've said it yourself: the Gundam franchise often had several failures along with several success stories. If you think Gundam SEED was a failure, perhaps a mind-blowing installment is just over the horizon. (Plus, I'm sure they couldn't ignore the legions of classic-Gundam fans lobbying for stages similar to the old Gundam series, yeah?)[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Starwind]

I'll note that the series has had it's drop offs, but I feel it slowly recouping for me in SEED and SEED destiny. Like so many others, I came to the Gundam unvierse with Gundam Wing and have been drawn into the vast world of Gundam ever since. Along the way I have seen many an atrocity, the most horrid of which would have to be Gundam SD. This work is pure blasephemy against everything that is gundam and should banished to the deepest pits of hell. G-Gundam I deamed forgivable, and slowly I have regained faith in the series with the addition of the Gundam SEED story to my collection of Gundam.

I can only hope that the atrocities of the past stay there and we will have many more inspirational years of new and exciting Gundam series to come.

[WW2]

Yeah...I can see where the Gundam series has begun to lose steam. I've watched quite a few Gundam Seed episodes...and I wasn't very impressed. Its basically just another rehash of the original 0079 series.
Even the "Zaft" mobile suits look the same as some of the Zeon MS.

Some of the plot and characters are pretty much the same as well.

I don't know if this was intentional though, or if it was paying homage to the original. All I know is that its not a very original concept overall.

But thats just my opinion.

[KatanaViolet]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#656446][SIZE=1]Nay, KV, 'tis not blasphemous to note the shortcomings of SEED. ^^

What was it that made Gundam so successful? Was it the outstanding mecha designs and concepts that were like breaths of fresh air to a generation numbed by five-man robot teams? Was it the shaky alliances and rivalries between various political organizations (certainly more interesting to watch than, say, a dull battle between Bozanians and Earthlings)? Or was it the characters who we saw maneuvering mechas with god-like piloting skillz, and erring as normal humans do at the end of the day?

All of those could be found in the Gundam series, past and present, Mobile Suit Gundam to Gundam SEED. The format, the animation and the creators may have changed, but all of them were true Gundam series at the core.

No. You've said it yourself: the Gundam franchise often had several failures along with several success stories. If you think Gundam SEED was a failure, perhaps a mind-blowing installment is just over the horizon. (Plus, I'm sure they couldn't ignore the legions of classic-Gundam fans lobbying for stages similar to the old Gundam series, yeah?)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

It was a somewhat sarcastic remark, a joke more or less.
Of course, being that SEED got me into the Gundam Franchise, I have not been able to compare it to the other Gundam series.
Perhaps comparing it to the others, it may not be as good. But I thought that the plot was always intriguing, as well as the struggles that the characters go through. The political and battle lines that are crossed, I thought it was very well done. Perhaps if I saw other Gundam series I would see things differently than you guys, because I would be comparing them to SEED rather than vice versa.
I wasn't meaning to be ignorant, just a difference stance I guess. :animeswea

[ManjoumeThunder]

[COLOR=Blue]In regards to what's been said so far, I don't take any offense to the comments made about blasphemy. It was meant as a joke so no big deal lets ignore that off topic segment. I've been coming here....longer then most of you guys anyway just a different name this time >.>

Anyway back on topic, in regards to Gundam SD. I completely even forgot about that series ironically, until you meantioned it. By far even more worse then Mobile Fighter G-Gundam. As for Gundam Seed and it's counterpart paying homage. That was done intentionally but more so to re-invent the franchise all over again. My only gripe with them reinventing the franchise over and over again is they really don't do much different.

We for the most part have the same layout, which goes as follows. Young Boy stumbles upon a Gundam. Young Boy, is forced to pilot it based on circumstances beyond his control. Eventually he's drafted into a war he doesn't want to fight and so on and so forth.

With Gundam Seed.....too many of the many plot devices from Gundam series were over used. We have Kira who is suppose to be the pretty boy version of Amuro. Similar situation with him happens that it did to Amuro with little differences. And then it falls into the problems that every alternate universe timeline has followed. They have more then one gundam and in certain cases too many gundams!

What made Gundam so original in the days of the original series and going into Zeta. Was there was only one Gundam....fighting in the war. Now in every new series you show that anyone who has a hair color other then brown can own a Gundam. They literally turned a gundam into a child's play thing....

It basically is the same formula that makes for a great horror movie you never show the killer too much.....In this case you shouldn't show more then one Gundam.

I'll post more thoughts later when more people respond. I appreciate people responding to this topic. I thought after a day or two it might of been a lost cause. [/Color]

[Qukey]

As a long time Gundam fan, for over 20 years, I don't really mind both G Gundam and SD at all. Actually, I found G Gundam entertaining enough to be a great Gundam series. It may look different but it preserves many Gundam themes and expresses them in a unique way. It is definitely an interesting series to watch.

SD has been a part of Gundam since the 80s and they are funny to watch. The older Super Deformed Gundam is something all Gundam fans should watch and love. The newer Superior Defender targets a very different set of audiences. It is a smart marketing move to introduce toys to younger generation of fans. At least it does not try to be serious like Gundam Seed.

I personally think Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny are the worst Gundam series ever created. Instead of having stories about human, Gundam Seed is presented as toy commercials to show case the latest market trend. The story is poorly paced with lower than average character development. There is nothing we have not already seen. Instead of wisely using the plot, most of the time is spent on the cheap romances between immature kids acting in childish ways.

[abc kid]

In regards to what many of you had stated, I will have to say that several shows from the Gundam franchise are, in fact, original and unique when it comes to storytelling. On the other hand, other shows sometimes display certain elements that are either recognizable or just simply uninteresting and bland. Personally, there [B][I]are[/I][/B] some Gundam series that I had enjoyed for the past few years.

Gundam Wing was not only the first Gundam series I had seen, but it is also my favorite of all time. It had everything and anything I could ever had asked for in an anime: incredible storytelling, memorable characters (i.e. Heero, Duo, Wu Fei, etc.) , and unexpected plot twists. It is an awesome adaptation of the Gundam franchise. The other Gundam shows I love to watch - most of you may not like them, I may warn you - include G Gundam, Mobile Suit Gundam, Gundam Seed, and Gundam 0080.

The most disappointing installment for the Gundam franchise, in my view, was/is the 8th MS Team. Not only was it a short anime series (about 13 episodes, as I recall), but it was almost as if it was a corny yet "sappy" love story. If I wanted to see an anime that containsa storyline similar to Romeo and Juliet, I'd watch Ah! My Goddess or read the play myself. It didn't really impressed me much. Moreover, many Gundam fans, including [I]moi[/I], seem to agree on one thing: SD Gundam ain't our cup of tea. I say this because it is mainly a series strictly for kids or novice fans who couldn't or refuse to understand the premise of any of the previous Gundam shows proir to SD. Although SD doesn't bother me as a Gundam fan, I wouldn't say it is my favorite, and many of you may agree w/ me.

Basically, I don't necessarily see the Gundam franchise waining into obscurity; it is just at mere stalmate. There is nothing original or intriguing storyline-wise, not to mention no new installments to Gundam have been created. I just wish that this sentiment doesn't disturb anyone's allegance to the Gundam franchise, which has grown to be the most popular brand of anime anyone has ever seen.

[Domon]

[SIZE=1]Hmm. Well, personally I loved SEED, I thought the story was well made and done. THough some might disagree *fears the wrath of Qukey* However I loved the original Gundam as well before CN got their hands on it. I'd gotten the movies on VHS and they were only english dubbed, no editings etc. It was freaking amazing, Bright had a british accent, Sayla had a germanic accent, among other things. I just loved the series. Zeta was one of my favorites though it was a tight spot with G-Gundam (since I chose my SN from G-Gundam.) I really loved the story for G. I mean it took the Gundam name to different heights. It introduced a different style of piloting the suit. 08th Team had some of my favorite songs on it, mainly the opening and closing songs.

What I'm trying to say is that all the Gundam series stand alone with their own type of personalities. SEED is different because of how it started off instead of with a colony being dropped or w/e the freaking colony was nuked! I mean when have you seen something like that in another Gundam series?? That whole incident was the fuel to the fire in SEED and I just loved the series. Destiny though... Blech, Shin is a wuss and I really dislike him. I mean it was just...GAH!! It was painful.. The only thing that I've liked about SEED are the mech designs along with the ships.

But yeah. I don't think the franchise is getting stale, its just they haven't made another series yet. Personally it'd be interesting if they went backt to the UC at all and made a new series. Dear god that would be awesome![/SIZE]

[Qukey]

[QUOTE]What I'm trying to say is that all the Gundam series stand alone with their own type of personalities. SEED is different because of how it started off instead of with a colony being dropped or w/e the freaking colony was nuked! I mean when have you seen something like that in another Gundam series?? [/QUOTE]
Not coming here to argue, but that is not something I would consider unique in Gundam Seed. There is no colony dropped or nuked in both Victory Gundam and Turn A Gundam. In fact, there is no colony in Turn A. Also, Gundam X does not start with a colony drop or nuke. It starts with the end of the war where the colonies have been dropped 7 years earlier. That is something kind of unique in Gundam. Both Zeta and ZZ do not start with nuking colony as well. Green Noah and Shangri-La are technically not nuked.

I try not to get into any discussion about Gundam Seed as I am too old to enjoy it :catgirl: The flashback and recap episodes are killing it for me. The story starts with very promising pace but it can not keep up with the standard. Some of the scenes are too predictable only because we have already seen them in other Gundam series.

[Guest D. Resurrected]

Simply put yes it is getting very stail.The last real good gundam I saw in my oppinion was gundam 08 ms team :animeangr

[ManjoumeThunder]

[QUOTE=Qukey]
I try not to get into any discussion about Gundam Seed as I am too old to enjoy it :catgirl: The flashback and recap episodes are killing it for me. The story starts with very promising pace but it can not keep up with the standard. Some of the scenes are too predictable only because we have already seen them in other Gundam series.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Blue]I hope you don't mind Qukey but I'm going to borrow on what you said in that above statement if you don't mind. Perhaps the reason why opinions for the most are split on this topic has to do with the age of the Gundam Fan. I'm not trying to offend anyone but after asking this question a lot on forums and including at anime cons it varies based on how long a person has been a Gundam fan.

I noticed for the most part that Gundam Fans who started with the Original Gundam series tend to dislike Seed because literally everything it's trying to do, has been done in the Gundam Franchise and literally we've seen it done. Most fans who came in thanks to the poularity and airing of Gundam Wing on Cartoon Network tend to like Seed perhaps cause they haven't been really exposed to any other Gundams for the exception of what was is really available in the american market. So to them everything they see is original and unique, they have no knowledge of the previous series that haven't made it to the stateside yet. That's just my theory about why things are split.

I haven't really had much time to discuss Gundam Seed Destiny here....but I won't go into major detail since a lot of you haven't seen it yet. My biggest gripe with Gundam Seed Destiny has to be the fact the show tries to get too political. And as already meantioned here the storylines are really off pace. Sadly anytime I was watching Gundam Seed or Destiny for that matter the only sentiment that ran through my head was oh great "T.M. Revolution is promoting another album". The only thing decent out of those series in my opinion is the opening and ending music. But we all know -.- Sunrise, Bandai, and various other companies are using Gundam name to market toys and music.

Anyway getting to another point made earlier....if the Gundam Franchise in many's opinion is at a stalemate why not do the most reasonable thing in my eyes. If your going to reinvent the story all together. Throw out all the Gundam mythology we've come to know. Give the Gundams a new origin, new designs that don't look anything remotely like the Gundam design we've been use to, throw out the whole idea of colonies, and lastly stop making Char -.- ripoffs.

Literally start from a new point, and actually create something original instead of borrowing off all the Gundam cliche we are use too. Perhaps you'll scare away fans perhaps you'll make more money but I wish Sunrise would actually be more daring with it's franchise as of late. [/COLOR]

[Qukey]

[QUOTE]I noticed for the most part that Gundam Fans who started with the Original Gundam series tend to dislike Seed because literally everything it's trying to do, has been done in the Gundam Franchise and literally we've seen it done. Most fans who came in thanks to the poularity and airing of Gundam Wing on Cartoon Network tend to like Seed perhaps cause they haven't been really exposed to any other Gundams for the exception of what was is really available in the american market. So to them everything they see is original and unique, they have no knowledge of the previous series that haven't made it to the stateside yet. That's just my theory about why things are split. [/QUOTE]
Your observation is absolutely correct. Sunrise and Fukuda have already stated that Gundam Seed is made to attract new generation of Gundam fans. It is not intented for the older Gundam fans who have already known Gundam.

[QUOTE]Anyway getting to another point made earlier....if the Gundam Franchise in many's opinion is at a stalemate why not do the most reasonable thing in my eyes. If your going to reinvent the story all together. Throw out all the Gundam mythology we've come to know. Give the Gundams a new origin, new designs that don't look anything remotely like the Gundam design we've been use to, throw out the whole idea of colonies, and lastly stop making Char -.- ripoffs. [/QUOTE]

Turn A Gundam fits your description perfectly. Instead of political war between Earth and colonies, Turn A tells unique story about the conflict between two cultures bound by the same history. It has a great story and some of the most likeable characters in Gundam. Unfortunately, with the inconventional mecha designs, Turn A proves to be poor in selling toys. Since it does not support the big merchandise market, Turn A is overlooked by many. Also, there is a "Char ripoff" in Turn A and Harry Ord has proved to be an excellent character on his own without living in Char's shadow.

[QUOTE]Literally start from a new point, and actually create something original instead of borrowing off all the Gundam cliche we are use too. Perhaps you'll scare away fans perhaps you'll make more money but I wish Sunrise would actually be more daring with it's franchise as of late. [/QUOTE]
If we want to see another good Gundam story, we need to have a good producer/director who is not going to do everything to sell toys. The creator has to put the story first, instead of the market. When Tomino first created Gundam, the show was cut short and labelled as an failure because he introduced new ideas and people did not accept his view. When there is a working formula that sells, why even bother to tell a different story. We are lucky that Tomino insists on making good stories.