Your Religion

[John]

[quote name='Amelia][font=Arial']but the people of my generation there are not all good Christians. They even go to church more than I do, and they participate in many more church activities than I do, but they only do this because they're social teenagers with lots of friends who are also doing the activities. I see these kids everyday, being rude, obnoxious, cussing, and many things that non-Christian kids do. Then they go to church on Sunday and act like it never happened, and restart their whole week the same way. If people think all Christians are like that, they're very wrong. At least, I'm not like that, and I know the older, more mature and less prone to giving into peer pressure Christians aren't. So...I suppose I don't have a religion, but a relationship.[/font][/quote] As an aside, I don't think there's a problem with cussing at all. Biblically, you can't really find any reference to it (and I'm pretty firm in the belief that the verses relating to a clean tongue are speaking of verbal slander and gossiping, heh), and it doesn't make any logical sense to abhor it, either.

[Hanabishi Recca]

[quote name='John']As an aside, I don't think there's a problem with cussing at all. Biblically, you can't really find any reference to it (and I'm pretty firm in the belief that the verses relating to a clean tongue are speaking of verbal slander and gossiping, heh), and it doesn't make any logical sense to abhor it, either.[/quote]

If the Bible doesn't make reference to cussing then what is clean tongue and VAIN speaking?

I think cussing is bad.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]I'm Muslim. It simply makes the most sense to me. There is only ONE God. Humans are born without sin, and only accumulate sins throughout their lives. And all those "dumb" rules that God gives us are really for our own good. It's not to make our lives boring and miserable. We'd be happier if we just obeyed these rules.

Anyway...
[quote name='Sandy']Oftentimes religion is focusing on the life after death (rather than the life you're living), which I find more than a bit ridiculous. Why waste your life wondering "what if", when it is obvious that the answer won't come to you until you're dead?[/quote]The thing is, religion does focus on the life we're living. The lives we are living are a means to and end. Just like how a good education is a means to good job in the future. Why shouldn't an elementary schooler work hard in school,even if he has to wait until it's over before moving on to middle school? The child isn't wasting his time wondering "what if?", he's working hard to obtain his future goals.

Of course it's dumb to waste time in this life we're living. That's why most religions DON'T want you to waste time. They want you to live a good decent, moral life, to work hard, and to enjoy yourself too (but don't overdo it).[/COLOR]

[John]

[QUOTE=Hanabishi Recca]If the Bible doesn't make reference to cussing then what is clean tongue and VAIN speaking?

I think cussing is bad.[/QUOTE] I already said that the "clean tongue" refers to not actually slandering someone else or gossiping (strange how much gossiping is touched on in the Bible XD), and vain speaking is just that, heh. Being self-conceited.

Even if you don't think cussing is ok, you should still look into it more so you can actually prove that for yourself instead of just relying on what you've been told. *nod*

[Sandy]

[quote name='Hanabishi Recca][U][b]Yeah, okay. Your kidding, but also serious.[/b][/U][b']I will go in detail. Sorry about that. I am human[/b][/quote]

I was kidding with the "are you even human?!"-question (I apologize for the bad joke, I was tired at the time), but there was a serious point behind it.

I don't care what people believe in, but I only respect beliefs that have been thought out by yourself, and not taken for granted. I've spend a large part of my life pondering about these things, and I only came into this conclusion I have now by many twists and turns.

Merely quoting the text of a holy book (whatever it may be), sounds [I]to me[/I] like the quoter doesn't really think that way, he or she just writes what other people have said that he or she must believe.

Religion, despite having it's communal level, is most importantly a personal thing. Nobody can really dictate on what you believe, or say that you are believing wrong (because who can honestly say he or she knows the truth?). Believing is not knowing, although so many people mix them up.

[quote name='Chabichou']The child isn't wasting his time wondering "what if?", he's working hard to obtain his future goals.[/quote]

Please don't misunderstand me on purpose. I meant more of "what if I ruin my place in heaven?", "what if I die tomorrow?", "what if there's nothing after this life?". I was just saying it's rather pointless to ask those questions over and over again and miss your chances in life, since nobody is going to give you a definite answer. Again, you can [I]believe[/I] something, but it's not knowing.

[NekoSama101]

I think cussing is bad too, to an extent. There are a lot more worse things that you can od. Plus, when you're in jr. high and everyone else is saying bad words, you tend to start saying them yourself without even relizing what's happen. and yes, i'm speaking from experence. However, cussing is one the lighter sins. it's not like i'm looking at porn or stealing stuff.

[Justin]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]
You don't need religion at all. All you need from religion is the message to love your neighbor, to help your neighbor, and to live a good life yourself. What's so wrong in believing that humans can solve their own problems through making progress (which is what humanism boils down to, essentially)? Humanists don't believe in an [i]actual[/i] God that loves everyone -- they believe that a figurative 'God' is within all of us, and that we can all be agents of change. The whole point of humanism is that you shouldn't expect anything, you shouldn't believe in anything outside of what (collectively) you can do.[/size][/QUOTE]

But that aspect of humanism (that man can solve his own problems through progress), as I stated, has been shown to be null and void. Progress in society has only created progressed evil.


[QUOTE=Ziggy Stardust][FONT=Times New Roman]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Ever wonder why the Dead Sea Scrolls (Pre-Constantine) are so completely different from the commonly accepted bible (Post-Constantine)? It's because they were heavily edited so that Constantine could control the population. In order to NOT write a novel on the subject, I'll simply state that, in my opinion, Christians believe in propogandga that some ancient Roman ruler used as political leverage.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I challenge you to produce evidence of that claim. Because the intelliectual problem presented by the Dead Sea Scrolls is that they [i]verify[/i] the Bible we accept today as very much the same as the texts written in the first century, not that they [i]contradict[/i] it. That fact has made the intellectual challenge to Christianity shift from 'what does the Bible really say' to 'what does the Bible really mean.'

Now, I will agree that Constantine himself was a nasty--and likely, unconverted--pagan dictator who used Christianity for political purposes; but he did not change Christian doctrine, nor did he change predominate Christian writing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In response to the question of cussing: The problem with cussing isn't even religious. The problem lay in the very term 'cussing.' What most people don't realize and what some even try to avoid is that the word 'cussing' is an idiom. It is an accentual slurring of a different word--[i]cursing.[/i] Therefore the act of 'cussing' is also the act of 'cursing.' Now, I don't know/care who you are or what you believe, but out of respect for all, I won't be one to curse anyone.

[QUOTE=Amelia][FONT=Arial]
The problem with my church is that their are too many elderly people, too many social, trendy, ANNOYING teenagers, and I'm way too different from all of them. If I could find a church with punk rock Christian music (which is sort of an oxymoron), or gothic or whatever, with people who actually have things in common with me (other than being living, breathing, human beings), then I might actually enjoy going to church. This weekend is Disciple Now, which is a retreat in which the youth stay at host homes and indulge in the Bible and other activities, a live Christian band, and some big game/activity. The first year I went, we had a video scavenger hunt and some people from church play music. The next year was the best, with it's electric band and Mess Fest (sort of like a food fight, but in an organized fashion). Last year, we had an acoustic band and worked at a charity. I'm hoping that I'll get as close to God as I did two years ago (I felt Him in the sanctuary as we had the final worship service. Everyone cried, even the skater boys and adults). I'm just not really looking forward to it. x_x;;[/FONT][/QUOTE]

Heh, punk is a genre, in reference to music. It's simply a fashion of playing instruments and a form of music. If you want punk bands that happen to be Christians as well, PM me, and I'll give you lists upon lists. The same goes for any genre of music you want--music is just art, and art is just a reflection of the artist.

-Justin

[Claire]

[FONT=Arial]Personally, there are many times where I wish I could bring myself to say profanities, but I doubt they would really make me feel any better. My parents don't want me to say them, and my teachers at church have always taught that God doesn't want his people to say things like "eff-word" or something. The things I do say, I don't consider that bad (i.e., "crap," or "sucks," neither of which my parents want me saying), and even the adults at church have said them a lot.

The problem with my church is that their are too many elderly people, too many social, trendy, ANNOYING teenagers, and I'm way too different from all of them. If I could find a church with punk rock Christian music (which is sort of an oxymoron), or gothic or whatever, with people who actually have things in common with me (other than being living, breathing, human beings), then I might actually enjoy going to church. This weekend is Disciple Now, which is a retreat in which the youth stay at host homes and indulge in the Bible and other activities, a live Christian band, and some big game/activity. The first year I went, we had a video scavenger hunt and some people from church play music. The next year was the best, with it's electric band and Mess Fest (sort of like a food fight, but in an organized fashion). Last year, we had an acoustic band and worked at a charity. I'm hoping that I'll get as close to God as I did two years ago (I felt Him in the sanctuary as we had the final worship service. Everyone cried, even the skater boys and adults). I'm just not really looking forward to it. x_x;;[/FONT]

[Claire]

[FONT=Arial]The Bible never mentions any degree of sin, though. There aren't seven deadlier ones, and their aren't any lightest ones. Unfortunately, the smallest lie can be just as sinful as murdering someone. There's not a level of cursing that is tolerable and one that is not. I know it doesn't make much since that way, but that's how it goes. There are a lot of things that don't make sense about God, but regardless, it feels right.[/FONT]

[Fasteriskhead]

A little bit of fact correction on the Dead Sea Scrolls question, if I can. Now, honestly, no one seems to be completely sure [i]exactly[/i] who it was holed up in Qumran keeping this huge library intact, except that it was a Jewish sect of some kind. Most evidence points to a bunch of Essenes, but more recently the theory that they were actually Sadducees has been gaining ground also (you can google these folks if you're curious). Anyways, it doesn't really matter for the discussion here. What's important is that these folks were [i]Jewish, not Christian[/i]. Yes, there's tons of stuff from the biblical books in the DSS library, but they're all from the [i]Jewish[/i] bible, the Tanakh (for Christians, the Old Testamant). There are no gospels, no epistles, no Revelation. So, while their discovery is extremely important for studies of the Tanakh/OT (they are, I think, the oldest extant copies of some books), it has nothing to do with the question of how Christian texts have or haven't been altered since the first century. With the possible exception of a very tiny fragment which may be from Mark (which, if valid, would effectively prove that Mark was the earliest gospel written), there's nothing Christian in the DSS library at all.

As for Constantine changing up the bible to control the populace, it's frankly absurd. Where are you getting this from? It's true that Constantine was the one who convened the Council of Nicaea (they're the ones who came up with that "I believe in one god, the everlasting father..." thing), and I have no doubt that he must have done so for somewhat self-serving purposes and probably twisted a few arms to make sure things went how he wanted. Fair enough, although more than likely the purpose of the thing was just to lock a bunch of outspoken and increasingly violent bishops in a room together until they agreed on something. But the council's question was one of [i]doctrinal[/i] control, of deciding what interpretations should and should not be taught, which is completely different from rewriting the biblical texts themselves. Keep in mind that this was the fourth century: by then all the New Testament books we all know about (as well as any amount of other stuff that could've gone in but didn't) were already written, floating around in wide popular use, and often being interpreted in incredibly weird ways. "Editing" every copy of these things would have been impossible. Now, the church made a lot of headway eliminating alternative branches of Christianity (like Gnosticism, the best-known example), and it tried its best to get rid of some of the most "interesting" texts in use, but even so the results [i]still[/i] end up a mish-mash. Read Mark, follow it up with John, then hit Revelation, and just try to tell me that the whole thing's a masterpiece of uniformity designed to put the masses down. Keep in mind that a really strict biblical canon didn't start to truly form until the 400s, and I don't think the Catholic Church even reached its present bible until the Council of Trent in [i]1546[/i]. By then, obviously, it was out of Constantine's hands. Now, I'm not saying that there were never any attempts to change church doctrine for political whims, but the results were usually a lot messier than what the word "propaganda" implies (this is religion, remember, and people are picky about it).

Welp, that's your lesson about church history for the day. There's probably more in the thread I could talk about, but I should probably shut up for now.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Kam']But that aspect of humanism (that man can solve his own problems through progress), as I stated, has been shown to be null and void. Progress in society has only created progressed evil.[/quote]
[size=1]So what do you expect to happen? We all stop trying to solve our problems and expect God to take care of the work? Do you honestly think that if we all become God-fearing Christians things will change?

You basically just said that progress in society is all evil. The claim is ludicrous. Now, I have nothing against Christians at all -- I'm one myself -- however, the "God will take care of your problems" is a naive way of looking at things.

I honestly don't see any societal problems being solved through strictly prayer and a cease to societal progress.

[quote name='Amelia][FONT=Arial']The Bible never mentions any degree of sin, though. There aren't seven deadlier ones, and their aren't any lightest ones. Unfortunately, the smallest lie can be just as sinful as murdering someone. There's not a level of cursing that is tolerable and one that is not. I know it doesn't make much since that way, but that's how it goes. There are a lot of things that don't make sense about God, but regardless, it feels right.[/FONT][/quote]

Oh, come now, Amelia. How does it feel right that murder is just as wrong as swearing under your breath? Take this (Platonic, I believe) scenario, for example.

A child refuses to take medicine that could easily save their life, solely because it tastes bad. You slip it into their food so that they ingest it without knowing. This deceit ends up saving the child's life.

How is that as wrong as murdering millions of Jews? How does that feel right to you?[/size]

[John]

[quote name='NekoSama101']I think cussing is bad too, to an extent. There are a lot more worse things that you can od. Plus, when you're in jr. high and everyone else is saying bad words, you tend to start saying them yourself without even relizing what's happen. and yes, i'm speaking from experence. However, cussing is one the lighter sins. it's not like i'm looking at porn or stealing stuff.[/quote] One of the "lighter" sins? The Bible is pretty explicit on the fact that there are no "lighter" or "heavier" sins, in the spiritual sense at least. The only way I could imagine considering sins in that light is on the level of human interaction, and how they affect others around you. But even if we think of it like that, looking at porn doesn't affect anyone but yourself; so if you're assuming that cussing is a sin and that it also doesn't affect anyone else, then just what is it that makes it any better than looking at porn?

[quote name='Kam]In response to the question of cussing: The problem with cussing isn't even religious. The problem lay in the very term 'cussing.' What most people don't realize and what some even try to avoid is that the word 'cussing' is an idiom. It is an accentual slurring of a different word--[i]cursing.[/i']Therefore the act of 'cussing' is also the act of 'cursing.' Now, I don't know/care who you are or what you believe, but out of respect for all, I won't be one to curse anyone.[/quote] The act of cussing is also the act of cursing? In name only, maybe. Choosing to say one of a handful of words instead of another doesn't alter the meaning of what you say. If I say "You're a damn good guy" to someone, I'd venture to say I'm not cursing him.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Other people got to the bigger/smaller sin thing before me, since I had my lappy closed while still in the reply window for most of the day, heh. With my post, though, I hope to clarify that sins are all equal on a spiritual level in that they all signify that people are impure. However, and this is mainly directed towards Retri's post, they're definitely on different levels when it comes to how they effect the world around the sinner.

[Guest tanukioh]

Well....Technically I'm christian... >.> but I follow onmyoudou, which is a sort of magic associated with Shinto...soooo...o.o I guess i'm "chist-into"

[Boo]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]
A child refuses to take medicine that could easily save their life, solely because it tastes bad. You slip it into their food so that they ingest it without knowing. This deceit ends up saving the child's life.

How is that as wrong as murdering millions of Jews? How does that feel right to you?[/size][/QUOTE]

[size=1]A bit mad examples, if I may say so. You seriously can't compare the saving of a child by putting medicine in food, with murdering jews. The child doesn't know what's best for it, since it hasn't had any life experience yet. The guy with the mustache knew exactly what he was doing, and fully believed in his cause.

Retribetty, don't be silly. Come with better examples >: O[/size]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Boo][size=1]A bit mad examples, if I may say so. You seriously can't compare the saving of a child by putting medicine in food, with murdering jews. The child doesn't know what's best for it, since it hasn't had any life experience yet. The guy with the mustache knew exactly what he was doing, and fully believed in his cause.

Retribetty, don't be silly. Come with better examples >: O[/size][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Yeah, I know, the example was pretty [B][I]dutch[/I][/B] in retrospect.

It works though. I'm saying, there's certainly degrees of wrongness. It's technically wrong to decieve, but it's deception to save a life. Amelia was saying that there's no difference between sins. A sin is a sin, and I don't think that's right at all. How would the given example be equivalent in God's eyes to double homicide for personal gain?

Go jump off a tree, Booster.[/size] [B]>: )[/B]

[Claire]

[FONT=Arial]I wouldn't consider putting a neccessity that someone doesn't want in a place that will make them take it a lie, though. Sure, you didn't tell them that you put the medicine in their food, but if they needed it to survive a disease, then by all means: do it as often as need be. That's not really a lie.

But I know what you mean with the comparison, and it does sound bizarre. But that sort of falls in line with the belief that good works alone get a person into Heaven; since the person who gave the child the medicine did a good deed and everyone who caused the Holocaust did a bad deed. A very bad deed. But that's not how it works.[/FONT]

[DNAngel360]

i used to be catholic but it wasn't as great so i turned to christianity and it will be 3 yrs since i converted to christian it was my choice unlike catholic i made the choice to become christian and i don't regret it :animesmil

[Eva10]

I knew it! As always threads like these always turn into a battle. Let me just say im Catholic and lately on the web i've had to defend the Catholic Church against other forms of Christianity. Sad ain't it lol. Seriously why does every thread like this have to turn into us Christians vs. Atheist?

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I have noticed that generally these threads inevitably transform from people simply explaining what they practice what faith they do, or in the cases of atheists don't, to someone leveling off a barely cloaked insult at the other side on the fence and the topic becomes a debate on which is correct. Unfortunately for all those involved this topic of debate has been going on long before we were born and will go on long after we've died, because people of any background who hold any belief firmly will not change simply because you spell out your reasons for not believing.

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, I go to Mass every Sunday unless I am unable to, I'm confess my sins given the opportunity and I try to live by the example laid down by Christ, his Apostles and now the Pontiff and the clergy. While there are those in modern society who's beliefs I don't agree with, I'm happy to let them choose their own path in life, God gave each of us the burden of choice and when I stand before Him I can only be answerable for my own sins.[/SIZE]

[Justin]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]So what do you expect to happen? We all stop trying to solve our problems and expect God to take care of the work? Do you honestly think that if we all become God-fearing Christians things will change?

You basically just said that progress in society is all evil. The claim is ludicrous. Now, I have nothing against Christians at all -- I'm one myself -- however, the "God will take care of your problems" is a naive way of looking at things.

I honestly don't see any societal problems being solved through strictly prayer and a cease to societal progress.[/size][/QUOTE]

Whoa, friend, you've taken me far out of context. The opinion I stated is, in fact, a secular one; not a Christian one at all.

As I said the humanist view we're discussing is/was a view of [i]Modernism[/i]. This should be seen as a movement begun in some degrees as early as the Enlightenment Period, but primarily in the era that the theory of evolution attained a popular status.

More recently, the [i]Post-Modern[/i] attitude has taken hold of modern society. This new social movement is one of disillusionment with society's systems. It's one where culture is seeking spiritual fulfillment, because it recognizes once again its need for something greater than itself.

However, my criticism of [i]post-modernism[/i] is this: Why is it that we seek a form of God, but there is no desire to follow in his footsteps?

I think you misunderstood my method of communicating a very valid point for ignorance coated with faith. I assure you, I do not expect anyone to stop trying to better themselves or the world.

Very much contrary.What I expect(maybe "wish for" is the better term, I do not expect it) is for people to [i]seek[/i] betterness-- not simply comfort; and to realize that we can't find God within our own means.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Yeah, I know, the example was pretty [B][I]dutch[/I][/B] in retrospect.

It works though. I'm saying, there's certainly degrees of wrongness. It's technically wrong to decieve, but it's deception to save a life. Amelia was saying that there's no difference between sins. A sin is a sin, and I don't think that's right at all. How would the given example be equivalent in God's eyes to double homicide for personal gain?

Go jump off a tree, Booster.[/size] [B]>: )[/B][/QUOTE]

I also want to address the 'degrees of sin debate.' I don't want you to think I'm picking on you Retribution, but yours was the last comment I saw on the subject.

Looking at Mosaic Law and the Gospel's effect on it, an individual act of sin is not what Christian doctrine teaches we can be saved from. It is a preexistant condition of the human nature, introduced through the original sin of Adam.

The Gospel teaches primarily that Christ(who must be seen as God himself in this instance) submitted to the will of the Father(who must also be seen as God), recieved the Holy Spirit(also the character of God), and as God took the full punishment for ALL of humanity's sin nature.

This punishment had to be dealt out for humans--God's most precious creation--to be able to be reconciled to their Creator, King, Father, Mother, Lover, and Friend. The beauty of this portrait is that in Jesus, God gave Himself to take that punishment once and for all time. And that because of Jesus, God gives Himself to us in the form of the Holy Spirit.

Now, this does not represent three different Gods, nor one God who takes three different forms. It is one God who is all three at one time, acting seperately and together of one will. This is a difficult concept, but I can't say God would be worth much if we could understand everything about Him.

-Justin

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Kam]Whoa, friend, you've taken me far out of context. The opinion I stated is, in fact, a secular one; not a Christian one at all.

As I said the humanist view we're discussing is/was a view of [i]Modernism[/i]. This should be seen as a movement begun in some degrees as early as the Enlightenment Period, but primarily in the era that the theory of evolution attained a popular status.

More recently, the [i]Post-Modern[/i] attitude has taken hold of modern society. This new social movement is one of disillusionment with society's systems. It's one where culture is seeking spiritual fulfillment, because it recognizes once again its need for something greater than itself.

However, my criticism of [i]post-modernism[/i] is this: Why is it that we seek a form of God, but there is no desire to follow in his footsteps?

I think you misunderstood my method of communicating a very valid point for ignorance coated with faith. I assure you, I do not expect anyone to stop trying to better themselves or the world.

Very much contrary.What I expect(maybe "wish for" is the better term, I do not expect it) is for people to [i]seek[/i] betterness-- not simply comfort; and to realize that we can't find God within our own means.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]
[size=1]I really didn't think you mentioned anything about seeking God for progress, which is what you're saying you've been arguing all along. Anyway, here's the quick answer: Not all people seek a form of God -- Europe's in the decline as far as the believing population is concerned. But I assume you meant those who do actively seek God. To this, I say that people are just lazy; who wants to deal with all the sacrifice and suffering when you can toss up a prayer and be done with it all?

However, I don't think this was your original point. Your original point seemed to be that societal progess has been completely evil up to this point, which is ludicrous.

[QUOTE]I also want to address the 'degrees of sin debate.' I don't want you to think I'm picking on you Retribution, but yours was the last comment I saw on the subject.

Looking at Mosaic Law and the Gospel's effect on it, an individual act of sin is not what Christian doctrine teaches we can be saved from. It is a preexistant condition of the human nature, introduced through the original sin of Adam.

The Gospel teaches primarily that Christ(who must be seen as God himself in this instance) submitted to the will of the Father(who must also be seen as God), recieved the Holy Spirit(also the character of God), and as God took the full punishment for ALL of humanity's sin nature.

This punishment had to be dealt out for humans--God's most precious creation--to be able to be reconciled to their Creator, King, Father, Mother, Lover, and Friend. The beauty of this portrait is that in Jesus, God gave Himself to take that punishment once and for all time. And that because of Jesus, God gives Himself to us in the form of the Holy Spirit.

Now, this does not represent three different Gods, nor one God who takes three different forms. It is one God who is all three at one time, acting seperately and together of one will. This is a difficult concept, but I can't say God would be worth much if we could understand everything about Him.

-Justin[/QUOTE]
To be honest, Justin, I'm not sure what this has to do with my original point. I was just saying that there are degrees of "sin" -- in society for sure, and (arguable) to God as well. I just don't think a girl who lied to her parents is going to get the same punishment as someone who killed someone.[/size]

[Sara]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']I was just saying that there are degrees of "sin" -- in society for sure, and (arguable) to God as well. I just don't think a girl who lied to her parents is going to get the same punishment as someone who killed someone.[/size][/quote][color=#b0000b][size=1]I don't know if the point is really whether or not there are degrees of sin or (maybe better put) degrees of evil. (I have been following along, and I do realise why the topic came up.) The idea that are sins are "equal" comes up (as an example) in this verse:

[i]For [b]all have sinned[/b] and [b]fall short[/b] of the glory of God...[/i] (Romans 3:23)

The "glory of god" thing is a Pass-Fail test where the passing grade is 100%. Even if you miss by half a point, you still miss. You still fail. That's the idea. Definitely, some things have much greater negative impact than others (you could try to argue otherwise, but it would be pretty tiresome), but that's not the point. The point is that, no matter how slight the sin, you fail to attain perfection. In [i]that[/i] sense, all sins are equal.

(Of course, I have to follow all of that up with its sister verse: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,[i] and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.[/i] Romans 3:23-[i]24[/i].)

On another note, I would say that [b]intent[/b] is important in the "sinfulness" of an action. Certainly we see intent playing a role in one direction:

[i]You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.[/i] Matthew 5: 27-28

However, I would be very careful when saying that intent plays a role the other way. There are a lot of people who have tried to justify their (terrible) actions by claiming "it was God's Will." And there are a lot of people who act hatefully because they believe (or claim to believe) it's what God wants.

In those cases, I really recommend considering the first letter of John (not the Gospel, but one of the last books of the New Testament.) I'm not going to quote the entire thing, but here are some passages from Chapter Four.

[quote=1 John 4][size=1](1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

(7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

(8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

(11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

(18) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

(20) If a man say, 'I love God,' and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

(21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.[/size][/quote]With this in mind, I would counter Retri's "sick child" example by saying that, rather than considering "magnitude" of sin, I would not consider that action a sin at all. It is taken in love for the child, in order to save the child (whom the parent has [b]a responsibility[/b] to care for to the best of his ability). Of course, there are alternative courses of action in such a situation (and alternative interpretions), but I've stated my opinion, and I think I'm going to leave that topic alone now.

Of course, no one (least of all, God) is asking me.[/size][/color]

[Sanoske_Interow]

I'm Catholic so like most christians I believ in god and Jesus and everything but I also have several other things that I believe in....most of it is complicated and I don't know how to explain it all......

[Hanabishi Recca]

[quote name='NekoSama101][U]I think cussing is bad too, to an extent.[/U] [B]There are a lot more worse things that you can do[/B].[I] Plus, when you're in jr. high and everyone else is saying bad words, you tend to start saying them yourself without even relizing what's happen.[/I] and yes, i'm speaking from experence. [B]However, cussing is one the lighter sins[/B']. it's not like i'm looking at porn or stealing stuff.[/quote]



[B][This bold is makeing reference to both bolded]There is no lighter sin. Every sin is the same. Think about it, a sin is a sin. It isn't a sin is a lighter sin. If you look at porn, it is the same as stealing, if you steal, it is the same as getting mad at someone. And if you kill, it is the same as fornication.[/B]

[U][NOTE] these are my thoughts [NOTE][/U]

[I]Yeah, okay. I wouldn't know about that, because I am home schooled. I would be in 8th though.[/I]

[NekoSama101]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]
I just don't think a girl who lied to her parents is going to get the same punishment as someone who killed someone.[/size][/QUOTE]
that's exactly what i've been trying to say when cussing is one of the "lighter" sins! The punishment is not going to be as harsh, if at all, as when you steal something, kill someone, etc.