Views on Science

[Guest tanukioh]

More and more i'm starting to see that science is NOT the only way to look at things. in fact, it may actually be doing some damage by trying to dominate all the other views.

For another thing, science claims that it has proven that certain things do not exist (magic, dragons, monsters, etc.) but, there is still evidence to the contrary. O.o NOTHING can be actually disproven, unless it's opposite is proven (and even that is hard to do!).

:) What do you think/believe? Is science the one true view on things, or do you follow a different path?

[color=DarkGreen][font=Trebuchet MS]I've edited your thread title to make it more obvious what your thread's about. Please read the [thread=52331][u]Otaku Lounge Rules Sticky[/u][/thread] for more information on informative thread titling.
[/font][/color] [right][b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=DarkGreen]-Raiyuu[/color][/font][/b]
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[NekoSama101]

finally someone says what i've been trying to say for years! ^_^

[Albert Flasher]

[FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=Sienna]So what you're saying is that there is proof that magic, dragons, wizards, etc, all exist, and science is a threat to said magic, dragons, and wizards, correct?

I'm just generally confuzzled by this post. What are you trying to ask? Is this a carbon-copy of the 'what's your religion' thread or something? Are you trying to say science doesn't exist or is a myth?

??[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Guest tanukioh]

^_^ all I'm asking is what your view on things is, not your religion.

I'm not saying science is a threat, I'm saying science should ease up and let other views be in the spotlight. O.o also, there is SOME proof of dragons, and monsters, and I practice a form of magic that seems to work for me. ^_^ Sciecne is no threat. The damage I was talking about is that by dominating the views, science makes followers of other views look crazy, and tends to make people shy away from the views.

O.o basically the goal of this thread is to A) see what everyone's views on issues of science, religion, philosophy, etc are (not just religion), and B) open people up to new ideas. :)

[kingN]

I like science in all, but sometimes it can be dumb. like when scienist try to prove that GOD didn't make us or the world. But science and also help with sickness too and trying to find a cure for disease. But some people try to find everything out or explain everything by science. science well help find some things out and explain them, but there are just some thing you an't going to find out or explain with science.

[Ikillion]

[COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS][quote name='tanukioh']For another thing, science claims that it has proven that certain things do not exist (magic, dragons, monsters, etc.) but, there is still evidence to the contrary. O.o NOTHING can be actually disproven, unless it's opposite is proven (and even that is hard to do!).[/quote]

Can you show us that there is evidence that proves that there still is Magic, Dragons, and monsters? Its much like Ziggy Stardust said, if you view science as a threat than you would be surprised what is considered a threat then. That means that the internet must be a threat, this forum must be a threat. Infect ALL TECHONOLOGY must be a threat if science is a threat. Your first posts are really actually confusing though. I mean if you say that there is no proof that magic, dragons, monsters and the latter can't not exist because there isn?t any proof to say that they didn't. Than you Must be able to [B]show[/B] us that it is true? You can say whatever you like on the internet, but can you really give us proof that it exists? I think that many of the things that you have said can actually be disproven to have existed, the only thing I can see is monsters which only depends on how you can describe a monster. A monster can be anything from a spider to a Blue Whale.

But when you say that science is not the only way to look at things, it sounds like you are saying in a way that science is really some kind of cult that is forcing others to believe in what it says because it "says" it has proven that it is not true. I find that to be rather silly in a sense. I mean science is always constantly finding ways to improve upon itself and become clearer when trying to view things in the past. Religion on the other hand is fixed, it can be seen in how in some religions, there are things that happened to one place in, that in another religion happened differently although they are at the same time. So then in a case like that which one do you think is the truth if any?

Also you must add how humans see things back when these texts were written. If you go to some areas that are still underdeveloped and you show them some kind of scientifically things that they have never seen before then wouldn't that to them be considered magic? The same things could have been done when the religious texts were written. it depends on how the person who saw it, though of it first. Also, aren?t there numerous equations and theories on how things work that are proven to be true? So in a way are you saying that just because it has been proven to be true it isn?t true? because that really doesn?t make any sense there at all.

Also what happens when in the end that science was actually right? that most of the things that the have proved to have existed actually did and the things that didn't actually didn't? What would happen then?

P.S Don't go all "well you just say that because you don't have a religion" I am actually a christian, I have never heard that it was illegal to think if you religion has holes in it in some places right?
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[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][quote name='tanukioh]More and more i'm starting to see that science is NOT the only way to look at things. in fact, it may actually be doing some damage by trying to dominate all the other views. [/quote]How about a little clarification here. If science is not the only way to look at things, what other ways to see things are you referring to? And what views is science supposedly dominating? Your statement is extremely vague and doesn?t give a starting point for discussion. [QUOTE=tanukioh'] For another thing, science claims that it has proven that certain things do not exist (magic, dragons, monsters, etc.) but, there is still evidence to the contrary. O.o NOTHING can be actually disproven, unless it's opposite is proven (and even that is hard to do!).[/quote]Again clarification is needed. Where have you read that science has made these claims? And where is the evidence that you refer to that says magic, dragons and monsters exist? I can?t go off a simple statement of you telling me. Was it a show or article that you read?[QUOTE=tanukioh]I'm not saying science is a threat, I'm saying science should ease up and let other views be in the spotlight. O.o also, there is SOME proof of dragons, and monsters, and I practice a form of magic that seems to work for me. ^_^ Sciecne is no threat. The damage I was talking about is that by dominating the views, science makes followers of other views look crazy, and tends to make people shy away from the views.

O.o basically the goal of this thread is to A) see what everyone's views on issues of science, religion, philosophy, etc are (not just religion), and B) open people up to new ideas. :)[/QUOTE]Okay that clarifies it a little bit, but saying you practice magic is not enough to be considered proof. And I still want to know where this proof that dragons and monsters exist can be found.

And the idea that science makes others look crazy is a bit farfetched. After all people once thought that the Earth was flat. If someone is unaware of things, like the world being round, I wouldn?t say that they are crazy. I would only say that if after being presented with facts they still insist on believing in their past views. Like the world being flat. It?s a bit extreme but the principle is the same.

Personally I see no need for science to let up. After all the fuss of the government here in Utah trying to make Intelligent Design the only way to teach in classes, I believe that the one?s who need to let up and quite trying to eliminate different views is the religious groups.

Science like both [B]kingN[/B] and [B]Ikillion[/B] have said is responsible for amazing things. Like medicine and technology. Without it you wouldn?t even be able to post here about it.

More importantly, trying to make science back off so to speak will not change how the world works. It won?t change the fact that the world is not flat. Nor will it magically make dragons or monsters appear.
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[Albert Flasher]

[quote name='kingN']I like science in all, but sometimes it can be dumb. like when scienist try to prove that GOD didn't make us or the world. But science and also help with sickness too and trying to find a cure for disease. But some people try to find everything out or explain everything by science. science well help find some things out and explain them, but there are just some thing you an't going to find out or explain with science.[/quote][FONT=Times New Roman]
[COLOR=Sienna]
All that science is is the study of the natural world. That is it. Scientists don't choose to invent things that disprove this or that, they look at something that occurs in the natural world and they document it. That is what science is. Even if there were no scientists there would damn-well be science, because no matter how hard you close your eyes and hope it goes away, the things that happen in the natural world happen in the natural world, and they will long after we and all sceintists are long gone.

The general arguement tanukioh is the often cliched 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscence' statement, which really doesn't mean a thing. So what if there is no evidence AGAINTS it? There is no evidence that I couldn't destroy the entire population of the earth with a slipper, but do people act all terrified when I threaten too? No, they don't, they generally look at me like I'm some kind of leper. I'd imagine if you went up to people shouting "WIZARDS RIDING DRAGONS HAVE INVADED THE CITY AND ENSLAVED OUR MINDS WITH THEIR MAGIK POWERS!" you'd recieve similar treatment.

Honestly, this whole thing is a tad... juvenile.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Ziggy Stardust][FONT=Times New Roman]Honestly, this whole thing is a tad... juvenile.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]

[SIZE=1]My thoughts exactly.

While I agree that science is not the only way to look at the greater universe around us, to claim the existence of dragons, magic and monsters despite any conclusive evidence is a bit preposterous. Granted there are certain things I believe in as a practicing Catholic that aren't proven by science, such as the existence of God for one, but as a person with a great respect for science and it's achievements I accept that certain parts of the bible are required with a pinch of salt, so to speak, such as Genesis.

Science is merely the search for the truths of the universe, nothing more, nothing less. If it disproves something conclusively, then it is fact, plain and simple. Science poses a threat only to that which is untrue, so anyone who considers science a threat mires themselves in that which is untrue.[/SIZE]

[Guest tanukioh]

[color=navy]In the future, please don't submit consecutive replies. If you're the last one to post in a thread, and you have new information to add, you're always welcome to edit your existing post. Thanks.

- Dagger[/color]

To everyone asking for proof of dragons: they are in every culture in the world (as far as I know) and there was a "pickled dragon" found outside of a London museum. O.o it was in a jar, and people dunno if it is real, or fake. o.o so far, no conclusion has been made. ^_^ so I concider that proof.

as for proof of monsters: there are photos of them (albiet fuzzy) and they are seen occasionally. :animesigh some people brush it off as over imagination, but they still could have seen one. Example: Westerners thought Pandas where only myth for years before one was actually documented.

^_^ Also, just because you cant see something, doesn't mean it's not real.

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[QUOTE=Ziggy Stardust][FONT=Times New Roman]
[COLOR=Sienna]
All that science is is the study of the natural world. That is it. Scientists don't choose to invent things that disprove this or that, they look at something that occurs in the natural world and they document it. That is what science is. Even if there were no scientists there would damn-well be science, because no matter how hard you close your eyes and hope it goes away, the things that happen in the natural world happen in the natural world, and they will long after we and all sceintists are long gone.

The general arguement tanukioh is the often cliched 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscence' statement, which really doesn't mean a thing. So what if there is no evidence AGAINTS it? There is no evidence that I couldn't destroy the entire population of the earth with a slipper, but do people act all terrified when I threaten too? No, they don't, they generally look at me like I'm some kind of leper. I'd imagine if you went up to people shouting "WIZARDS RIDING DRAGONS HAVE INVADED THE CITY AND ENSLAVED OUR MINDS WITH THEIR MAGIK POWERS!" you'd recieve similar treatment.

Honestly, this whole thing is a tad... juvenile.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE] IIE. ^_^ my whole statement is, "What do you think?" and "PLease broden your views so we don't all follow a single thought. Why? because that would be dull."

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[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=1]My thoughts exactly.

While I agree that science is not the only way to look at the greater universe around us, to claim the existence of dragons, magic and monsters despite any conclusive evidence is a bit preposterous. Granted there are certain things I believe in as a practicing Catholic that aren't proven by science, such as the existence of God for one, but as a person with a great respect for science and it's achievements I accept that certain parts of the bible are required with a pinch of salt, so to speak, such as Genesis.

Science is merely the search for the truths of the universe, nothing more, nothing less. If it disproves something conclusively, then it is fact, plain and simple. Science poses a threat only to that which is untrue, so anyone who considers science a threat mires themselves in that which is untrue.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
I see my mistake with using the general term "science". O.o I meant the part of it that tries to undermine beliefs of others. o.o If someone wants to think that pie was invetned by a dinosaur on drugs, I say let them think that and the world will be a better place. ^_^ Why? Less dull.

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[QUOTE=Ikillion][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS]

Can you show us that there is evidence that proves that there still is Magic, Dragons, and monsters? Its much like Ziggy Stardust said, if you view science as a threat than you would be surprised what is considered a threat then. That means that the internet must be a threat, this forum must be a threat. Infect ALL TECHONOLOGY must be a threat if science is a threat. Your first posts are really actually confusing though. I mean if you say that there is no proof that magic, dragons, monsters and the latter can't not exist because there isn?t any proof to say that they didn't. Than you Must be able to [B]show[/B] us that it is true? You can say whatever you like on the internet, but can you really give us proof that it exists? I think that many of the things that you have said can actually be disproven to have existed, the only thing I can see is monsters which only depends on how you can describe a monster. A monster can be anything from a spider to a Blue Whale.

But when you say that science is not the only way to look at things, it sounds like you are saying in a way that science is really some kind of cult that is forcing others to believe in what it says because it "says" it has proven that it is not true. I find that to be rather silly in a sense. I mean science is always constantly finding ways to improve upon itself and become clearer when trying to view things in the past. Religion on the other hand is fixed, it can be seen in how in some religions, there are things that happened to one place in, that in another religion happened differently although they are at the same time. So then in a case like that which one do you think is the truth if any?

Also you must add how humans see things back when these texts were written. If you go to some areas that are still underdeveloped and you show them some kind of scientifically things that they have never seen before then wouldn't that to them be considered magic? The same things could have been done when the religious texts were written. it depends on how the person who saw it, though of it first. Also, aren?t there numerous equations and theories on how things work that are proven to be true? So in a way are you saying that just because it has been proven to be true it isn?t true? because that really doesn?t make any sense there at all.

Also what happens when in the end that science was actually right? that most of the things that the have proved to have existed actually did and the things that didn't actually didn't? What would happen then?

P.S Don't go all "well you just say that because you don't have a religion" I am actually a christian, I have never heard that it was illegal to think if you religion has holes in it in some places right?
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]I'm not calling it a threat persay. I'm saying for it to ease up on trying to disproove other people's beliefs. ^_^

Please see some of my posts above for what I think some of the proof is.

As for what would happen if the everything science says is right is prooven right? o.o as long as other beliefs exist, ok, but if they are all whiped out...:( it will be a sad sad world....

O.o I wouldn't say anything about "that's just your religion." o.o I just wanted to know your thoughts on this.

^_^ thank you, everyone for your input. please continue to grace this thread with your ideas. (this is really fun)

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[quote name='kingN']I like science in all, but sometimes it can be dumb. like when scienist try to prove that GOD didn't make us or the world. But science and also help with sickness too and trying to find a cure for disease. But some people try to find everything out or explain everything by science. science well help find some things out and explain them, but there are just some thing you an't going to find out or explain with science.[/quote]
hai! ^_^ that's kinda what I mean! Thank you for the input.

[Albert Flasher]

[QUOTE=tanukioh]To everyone asking for proof of dragons: they are in every culture in the world (as far as I know) and there was a "pickled dragon" found outside of a London museum. O.o it was in a jar, and people dunno if it is real, or fake. o.o so far, no conclusion has been made. ^_^ so I concider that proof.

as for proof of monsters: there are photos of them (albiet fuzzy) and they are seen occasionally. :animesigh some people brush it off as over imagination, but they still could have seen one. Example: Westerners thought Pandas where only myth for years before one was actually documented.

^_^ Also, just because you cant see something, doesn't mean it's not real.[/QUOTE][FONT=Times New Roman]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Dragon in a jar? You mean
[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickled_dragon]this cuddly little creature?[/URL]

Moveing on: what proof is there of monsters at all? Every time something even remotly credible comes up it turns out that it was a complete hoax, and other times it's just a claim. See my comment on the Australian Tiger; people have claimed to have seen it for years, but it doesn't change the fact that the creature is exstinct.

And you're right, just because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of there being dragons or creatures of that sort, doesn't mean they never existed. However, as the great Sherlock Holmes would have said, the easiest solution (As opposed to the most crazy one) is almost always the correct one.

Oh, and double posting is againts the rules.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Horendithas]

[quote name='kingN']I like science in all, but sometimes it can be dumb. like when scienist try to prove that GOD didn't make us or the world. But science and also help with sickness too and trying to find a cure for disease. But some people try to find everything out or explain everything by science. science well help find some things out and explain them, but there are just some thing you an't going to find out or explain with science.[/quote][COLOR=Indigo]Actually the idea that there are things science can?t prove is highly unlikely. Just take a look at our history and you will see that things that were believed to be beyond comprehension are now commonplace. Like lightening, the use of electricity is now considered normal. It would probably be more accurate to say that there are things that won?t be explained in our lifetime. The problem here is that many sci-fi shows and other programs show things that are pure conjecture, like monsters & aspects of space travel, and we lack the understanding to determine if it?s something we will eventually understand/discover or if it?s just pure fantasy.

I think that the question of God and the afterlife is the same, if it exists; it too follows the laws of science. Only these laws are so far advanced that our current level of knowledge doesn?t even come close to understanding it. [/COLOR]

[Guest tanukioh]

[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=Indigo]Actually the idea that there are things science can?t prove is highly unlikely. Just take a look at our history and you will see that things that were believed to be beyond comprehension are now commonplace. Like lightening, the use of electricity is now considered normal. It would probably be more accurate to say that there are things that won?t be explained in our lifetime. The problem here is that many sci-fi shows and other programs show things that are pure conjecture, like monsters & aspects of space travel, and we lack the understanding to determine if it?s something we will eventually understand/discover or if it?s just pure fantasy.

I think that the question of God and the afterlife is the same, if it exists; it too follows the laws of science. Only these laws are so far advanced that our current level of knowledge doesn?t even come close to understanding it. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
hmmm...good theory... ^_^ I can't wait to see more of your input.

:) anything else you would like to add into that?

[QUOTE=Ziggy Stardust][FONT=Times New Roman]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Dragon in a jar? You mean
[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickled_dragon]this cuddly little creature?[/URL]

Moveing on: what proof is there of monsters at all? Every time something even remotly credible comes up it turns out that it was a complete hoax, and other times it's just a claim. See my comment on the Australian Tiger; people have claimed to have seen it for years, but it doesn't change the fact that the creature is exstinct.

And you're right, just because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of there being dragons or creatures of that sort, doesn't mean they never existed. However, as the great Sherlock Holmes would have said, the easiest solution (As opposed to the most crazy one) is almost always the correct one.

Oh, and double posting is againts the rules.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]
Crappish. that was the thing. o.o they need to update that show on History Channle. >.< how am I supposed to keep my facts straight if they never update?!

o.o hmmm. sorry. didn't mean to double post. I will fix that. ^_^

O.o so i take it almost everyone on here thinks in the main stream of things?

[Ayokano]

People make things they don't understand into things they can. When people saw fire, did they think it was a chemical reaction? No. They attributed it to something else. People saw strange bones from the ground, and they weren?t able to pull them up, so they assumed the fossils were some creature of sort.

Though sometimes we do find creatures that we thought never existed, I highly doubt a large, flying reptile that breathes fire is plausible. If they ever existed, there would be at least some physical proof, such as bones and such, seeing how they were always slain. I believe science can prove anything; it's just we, as beings can't.

Also, you can't learn everything from TV. The History Channel's documentary about Dragons was all made up by the way, and was just a "what if?" show.

[Guest tanukioh]

[QUOTE=Ayokano]People make things they don't understand into things they can. When people saw fire, did they think it was a chemical reaction? No. They attributed it to something else. People saw strange bones from the ground, and they weren?t able to pull them up, so they assumed the fossils were some creature of sort.

Though sometimes we do find creatures that we thought never existed, I highly doubt a large, flying reptile that breathes fire is plausible. If they ever existed, there would be at least some physical proof, such as bones and such, seeing how they were always slain. I believe science can prove anything; it's just we, as beings can't.

Also, you can't learn everything from TV. The History Channel's documentary about Dragons was all made up by the way, and was just a "what if?" show.[/QUOTE]
I know, but I also know that the "always slain" thing is not in the Eastern dragon stories, nor is breathing fire. ^_^ Also, if you watched it, the druid lady and her husband said they think dragons are/were real, and that it's all a matter of perception.

O.o so you know, I was using dragons, magic, monsters, etc as examples. ^_^ Please note I would like discussion on old philosophies, alchemy, and so forth on here as well.

^_^ thanks for the input.

[Ayokano]

[quote name='tanukioh']I know, but I also know that the "always slain" thing is not in the Eastern dragon stories, nor is breathing fire. ^_^ Also, if you watched it, the druid lady and her husband said they think dragons are/were real, and that it's all a matter of perception.[/quote]

Eastern dragons also float, and I know of no land animal that does so. Even further, they are able to control weather and water, in which no species on Earth can. Why are these dragons nice anyway? If they ate meat, and had a clear advantage over humans, why aren't we extinct?

If they walked or still walked this Earth today, how is it a matter of perception? How can something proven by someone exist, but not to anyone else?

[Ikillion]

[QUOTE=tanukioh]^_^ Also, just because you cant see something, doesn't mean it's not real.
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Isnt that like saying...Just because you can't see the air, it must not exist? then what are we breathing right now! Mystery dust? >_>

About alchemy though, after everything that had happened to [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=48287&page=1]this[/URL] thread I am not even going to touch that subject, So I would rather prefer to stay off of that subject and such.

Also, If European dragons really did exist, than that must mean they have to have breathed fire right? I mean just about ALL of the dragons from europe have been said to breath fire. Can you think for juct a second of how that must have been able to happen? I mean most life forms cant even handle being put ON fire let alone being able to generate it? besides, I am pretty sure that if they would be able to do such things, they would soon burst into flames before shooting flames at people.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Guest tanukioh]

[QUOTE=Ayokano]Eastern dragons also float, and I know of no land animal that does so. Even further, they are able to control weather and water, in which no species on Earth can. Why are these dragons nice anyway? If they ate meat, and had a clear advantage over humans, why aren't we extinct?

If they walked or still walked this Earth today, how is it a matter of perception? How can something proven by someone exist, but not to anyone else?[/QUOTE]
O.o As to the first question, they are nice because they want to be. Thought they eat meat, they are creatures of reason, and are mostly benevilent...according to eastern folklore.

ast to your next questions about preception, It's the same as wether or not God is real. >.> If they are (still) real, I'd go with the eastern idea that they are spirits and can migrate from spirit form to physical form. ^_^ Then it is a matter of perception.

Good questions. ^_^ I look forward to your next inputs.

[Quote]
Originally Posted by Ikillion
Isnt that like saying...Just because you can't see the air, it must not exist? then what are we breathing right now! Mystery dust? >_>

About alchemy though, after everything that had happened to this thread I am not even going to touch that subject, So I would rather prefer to stay off of that subject and such.

Also, If European dragons really did exist, than that must mean they have to have breathed fire right? I mean just about ALL of the dragons from europe have been said to breath fire. Can you think for juct a second of how that must have been able to happen? I mean most life forms cant even handle being put ON fire let alone being able to generate it? besides, I am pretty sure that if they would be able to do such things, they would soon burst into flames before shooting flames at people. [/quote]


LOL!!!! ^_^ you misunderstood. I meant, if you can not see something that DOES NOT mean that it IS NOT real. LOL

Possibly it was a form of gas that was super-heated, and like fire. kinda like a termite's acid. secondly, as I said before, it was an example. ^_^ if you want to talk about dragons specifically, please go to the dragons thread.

Thank you for you input, and I suppose I will stay away from the alchemy subject...for no. I look forward to your next post.

[John]

[center][img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6236/nyehellno0qr.jpg[/img]
[left]
The one thing, tanukioh, that you're missing here, is that every time you've used the word "evidence" or "proof", you've been thinking scientifically. Science isn't a human invention, it's a universal truth that we gave a name to. What you've been talking about this entire time isn't science, it's the scientific finds that humans have made.

Science itself is infallible. That's entirely what science is, lol. Finding out the truths about everything in the physical universe. If something seems to be wrong with it, it's the scientist. The simple fact is, science exists and is always right, and if it produces no evidence of dragons or monsters (fuzzy videos aren't evidence. Fuzzy videos are fuzzy because they are fake. Mkah?), then there is no reason to believe that they exist now or ever did exist.
[/left]
[/center]

[Drako]

I personally prefer the "Scientific" view of things. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around other things. I like things that can be proven, can be tangible, and that make sense. Chances are that if you can't prove it to me, I'm not going to believe it.

[Ikillion]

[QUOTE=John][img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6236/nyehellno0qr.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][FONT=Comic Sans MS]-dies from laughter- I wish I though of that.

However what John said is right. If it wasnt for science you wouldn't have been able to make any of the accusations you have made about science, so it ends up being a loop that you can't excape from. The only way to do it without science is only by doing it by word of mouth which can also lead to things being added and things being subtracted. Which also is a more unreliable source. Just remember though the next time you have a cold or some kind of sickness and you just took some kind of medication for it, it was science's work...
[quote name='tanukioh']I meant, if you can not see something that DOES NOT mean that it IS NOT real.[/quote]

I am pretty sure thats a loop...saying the exact same thing you said before.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

[font=Trebuchet MS]Someone needs to PM Prick Wizard and Tyler Koregaten and get them involved in this discussion. That'll stop it being so darn one-sided!

Everyone has a bit of fantasist in them. Who here can say they haven't wondered what the world would be like if dragons / magic / etc really existed? Who hasn't wished, even just a little bit, that they did exist? Going on to try and prove (with fairly flawed logic) that such things actually do exist is taking harmless, necessary escapism that bit too far.
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[Justin]

Science was a good idea; then the scientists got ahold of it.

I certainly think the existance/lack thereof of certain elements of fantasy is, however, easily explained. Of course, amongst you all, I probably have the oddest opinions on pointless facts of science and history.

-Justin

[Delta]

[COLOR=#656446]^ Good one.

If dragons exist(ed), studying their life processes would fall under "science". If alchemy did work and there really was a Philosopher's Stone, synthesis would also fall under "science". Heck, if somebody discovered Materia, determining the best way to summon the king of Espers would be called a "science".

But you know, the search for conclusive, empirical evidence for all these things is "science" too. Science is not just about known general truths, IMO. Great discoveries and leaps in the field have been conceived by imaginative thinkers and those brave enough to explore possibilities once deemed "impossible".

That's why I rarely say that something's impossible 'cause someday, the evidence might just turn up and bite me in the ***.[/COLOR]

[Guest tanukioh]

Just so everyone knows, I will not be here for about a week and 2 days. Please keep this thread going, and don't get it locked up. No fighting, arguing, or insulting. O.o got it? ^_^ I'll give everything a look over when I get back.


Please note when reading this that I accedently got all the quotes, except the first one, in reverse order. :animeswea so any comments by the person i'm quoting on the quote above them will actually be for the quote below them. >.> I'll get it right next time.

Sorry for the confusion.

[QUOTE=John][center][img]http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6236/nyehellno0qr.jpg[/img]
[left]
The one thing, tanukioh, that you're missing here, is that every time you've used the word "evidence" or "proof", you've been thinking scientifically. Science isn't a human invention, it's a universal truth that we gave a name to. What you've been talking about this entire time isn't science, it's the scientific finds that humans have made.

Science itself is infallible. That's entirely what science is, lol. Finding out the truths about everything in the physical universe. If something seems to be wrong with it, it's the scientist. The simple fact is, science exists and is always right, and if it produces no evidence of dragons or monsters (fuzzy videos aren't evidence. Fuzzy videos are fuzzy because they are fake. Mkah?), then there is no reason to believe that they exist now or ever did exist.
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O.o....>.< Why is everyone treating this thread like a bad thing?

ok, good point on that. ^_^ and I'm not saying science is bad, I'm saying for it to let up and let other povs get around, too, instead of treating them like another common place experiment.

O.o Yes. physical universe. :) this is why it cannot proove or disproove the existance of God, spirits, souls, ghosts, etc. They are not in a physical form. o.o it's entirely unknown to science, so some people say "Not there". >.> I say, "If you think it's there, ok. enjoy your pov! but don't get into a closed up box."

Thanks for the input.

[quote=Delta]^ Good one.

If dragons exist(ed), studying their life processes would fall under "science". If alchemy did work and there really was a Philosopher's Stone, synthesis would also fall under "science". Heck, if somebody discovered Materia, determining the best way to summon the king of Espers would be called a "science".

But you know, the search for conclusive, empirical evidence for all these things is "science" too. Science is not just about known general truths, IMO. Great discoveries and leaps in the field have been conceived by imaginative thinkers and those brave enough to explore possibilities once deemed "impossible".

That's why I rarely say that something's impossible 'cause someday, the evidence might just turn up and bite me in the ***. [/quote] O.o hmmm... ^_^ also a good point. however, science is a POV. o.o religion would take the material from science, and see something different. so, too, would most other povs. :)

Thanks for the input! :) very very shibby. I look forward to seeing what you post next.


[quote=Kam]Science was a good idea; then the scientists got ahold of it.

I certainly think the existance/lack thereof of certain elements of fantasy is, however, easily explained. Of course, amongst you all, I probably have the oddest opinions on pointless facts of science and history.

-Justin[/quote]

^_^ POST THEM POST THEM! :D I wanna know!


[quote=Raiyuu]Someone needs to PM Prick Wizard and Tyler Koregaten and get them involved in this discussion. That'll stop it being so darn one-sided!

Everyone has a bit of fantasist in them. Who here can say they haven't wondered what the world would be like if dragons / magic / etc really existed? Who hasn't wished, even just a little bit, that they did exist? Going on to try and prove (with fairly flawed logic) that such things actually do exist is taking harmless, necessary escapism that bit too far. [/quote]

WOOO!! ^_^ NO MORE ONE-SIDED-NESS! thanks.

I know that, >.> but so far everyone's been going too logical at this. :) come on, everyone! Post YOUR POV, how you interpret things! Don't be shy about it.

[quote=Ikillion] dies from laughter- I wish I though of that.

However what John said is right. If it wasnt for science you wouldn't have been able to make any of the accusations you have made about science, so it ends up being a loop that you can't excape from. The only way to do it without science is only by doing it by word of mouth which can also lead to things being added and things being subtracted. Which also is a more unreliable source. Just remember though the next time you have a cold or some kind of sickness and you just took some kind of medication for it, it was science's work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanukioh
I meant, if you can not see something that DOES NOT mean that it IS NOT real.



I am pretty sure thats a loop...saying the exact same thing you said before.[/quote]
As I said before, good point. ^_^ please look above in this post to see my responce.

O.o sorry. I thought they just missed the contractions. I'll re-phraze next time.

^_^ thanks for the input. I'll keep it in mind.

[quote name='Drako']I personally prefer the "Scientific" view of things. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around other things. I like things that can be proven, can be tangible, and that make sense. Chances are that if you can't prove it to me, I'm not going to believe it.[/quote]

ahhh, a peaceful post siding with science (AT LAST!) :) ^_^ no "your wrong, and I'll proove it" no "no one beleives that". just a simple "here's what I think". that's the kinda stuff I'm looking for!

Thank you very much for your input! :animesmil I hope you continue to post here.