Manga Bleach Manga [Warning: Spoilers]

[Raiyuu]

Urahara didn't necessarily leapfrog Soi Fon - in the flashback way back when Soi Fon was in the Onmitsu Kidou, not the Gotei 13, though obviously things may have changed between then and the current flashback. It hasn't been explicitly stated who Yoruichi's Lieutenant is at the current point. Although this confirms that Yoruichi must have a Bankai-capable zanpakuto she hasn't even shown off yet.

To be honest, I'm just happy with all the screen-time Hiyori's getting in these flashbacks ... I can't wait for her to meet up with Urahara again in the present timeline and see how their relationship has matured (or otherwise).

As for the old guy, take a closer look at the Lieutenant standing behind him - extra evidence for the 'old man Kuchiki' argument?

.:EDIT:.
Looking more closely at the Captains spread myself:
The positions they're standing in suggest that the old guy is definitely 6th squad Captain (and clearly a Kuchiki as well - I hadn't noticed the scarf until you mentioned it, Gavin), and Kensei is either 9th or 10th. Whichever one Kensei isn't, is not present. I'm taking a stab in the dark and saying he's probably 10th, and when he leaves with the rest of the Vizards, Aizen pulls strings to get Hitsugaya bumped (we know he does so, and Kensei leaving would open up the spot).

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']Urahara didn't necessarily leapfrog Soi Fon - in the flashback way back when Soi Fon was in the Onmitsu Kidou, not the Gotei 13, though obviously things may have changed between then and the current flashback. It hasn't been explicitly stated who Yoruichi's Lieutenant is at the current point. Although this confirms that Yoruichi must have a Bankai-capable zanpakuto she hasn't even shown off yet.[/quote]

[SIZE="1"]True enough, I was reading through the lines and assumed as much. From the dialogue as well, it seems the 2nd Division are heavily involved with the Omnitsukidou, maybe the more powerful members of the latter join the former ?[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu']To be honest, I'm just happy with all the screen-time Hiyori's getting in these flashbacks ... I can't wait for her to meet up with Urahara again in the present timeline and see how their relationship has matured (or otherwise).[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. Funny though, seems everyone who trains Ichigo has been a Captain of the Gotei 13 at some point. And that boy claims he can't sense power, it's damn subconscious for him is all.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu'].:EDIT:.
and Kensei is either 9th or 10th. Whichever one Kensei isn't, is not present. I'm taking a stab in the dark and saying he's probably 10th, and when he leaves with the rest of the Vizards, Aizen pulls strings to get Hitsugaya bumped (we know he does so, and Kensei leaving would open up the spot).[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]9th, because if you look at the way the captains are arranged, it goes even numbers on the left and odd on the right with Yamamoto in the centre. 10th Captain would be after Shunsui and is apparently dead from what Shunsui said -108. We know the 11th Captain is called a maverick for not showing up to the meeting, so Kensei has to be 9th. Heh sorry if that sounded a little forceful, it wasn't mean to. ^_^;

The whole Aizen thing still holds though, 3rd, 7th and 9th Divisions all had their vacant captaincies filled by people Aizen had under him at one point or another. Even if only two of the three stayed loyal to him. Go Komamura.[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

You're right! I saw that they were in numerical order but didn't think about the arrangement of odds and evens. And I'd completely skipped over Shunsui's comment about the 10th being dead - I think I must have skimmed the text and assumed he was talking about the previous 11th Captain that Zaraki killed.

[TwistedChick]

Ch. -106 - If anyone in the history of the Seireitei deserved to be locked up before actually committing a crime, it most definitely would've been Kurotsuchi. ~Madman~ all the way. Glad to see people agree. Why Urahara would release him, eventually leading to his replacing him as Captain, I don't have the time or energy to ponder at the moment, so I'll leave that to Kubo to explain. But, man. *shudders* That guy gives me the creeps.

Let's see if we can get this thread to move, shall we?

[Magus]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]I'm still recovering from the fact that even Yoruichi was a captain before Aizen as well as Urahara being a 3rd seat under her. This stuff is coming fast, and taking a while to sink in lol.

Urahara should've had his hat. Without it, it takes away the mysterious-ness about him. (And the goofy looks with that hat. XD)

Mayuri looks funny.

In any case, the whole master of hand-to-hand combat, I suppose that would answer why Yoruichi is so good in it?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Raiyuu]

Bleach just turned into Minority Report!

I'm knee-deep in essays for my finals and it is seriously weird how this chapter relates to the themes I'm covering. The assignment is all about how minorities don't even need to be actively oppressed, they just get that way through a twisted sort of natural process where they don't conform to society's values, so they're automatically viewed as outsiders and aren't afforded the privileges of the conformist classes. And now Bleach throws in the Maggots' Nest, where the 13 Squads throw anyone that doesn't conform to their values. Plus, Kisuke's clearly against this practice; however inadvisable that may turn out to be in the context of the storyline (certain people would have been saved an awful lot of trouble if Mayuri had stayed in his cell), I feel like we're getting some strong antiestablishment vibes from KT right now.

Come to think of it, Soul Society and the 13 Squads in particular have always been cast as this cold, unsympathetic establishment organisation. General Yamamoto was ready to burn Rukia at the stake without ever bothering to find out the real reason; despite her past actions as a powerful ally, they cut all ties with Orihime at the first whiff of her defection; they continue to use Ichigo and friends as disposable pawns, never quite accepting any of them as 'part of the team' but feeling free to order them about anyway.

In a way, it's this that makes them predictable enough for Aizen to manipulate. He knew very few people would question orders from Central 46, so his plot to vaporise Rukia very nearly worked. He knew that, whether or not they saw her as a defector, they would want Orihime's powers for themselves, or at least wouldn't want him to have them, and through that he managed to trap four Captains in Hueco Mundo. Then there's Zommari's parting shot about the Shinigami assuming a God-given right to hunt Hollows, who he believes are equally legitimate spiritual entities. Soul Society has labelled Hollows 'evil', minoritised them, marginalised them, and thus decided they're worthy only to be exterminated.

I mean, Hollows are essentially wild and dangerous beasts who eat human souls, so from our point of view that seems fair enough. But who decided that a living human soul is worth more than a Hollow? Hollows are just human souls that didn't get Konsou administered soon enough, so their existence is actually the result of the Shinigami not doing their job. And it gets even more complicated when you start thinking about Arrancar, who have consciously cast off that bestial nature and worked hard to regain their reason - their humanity.

Phew, if I keep thinking like this I'm going to start thinking of Soul Society as the antagonists in this story. I suppose they are, sort of - we're positioned on Ichigo's side, and he's only partially affiliated with Soul Society and is frequently at odds with them (invading Soul Society, disobeying their orders to enter Hueco Mundo). Most of the 'main' characters are positioned outside that establishment; the Rockin' Future Seven are all living humans, Kisuke and Yoruichi are exiled, and so are the Vizards (though we don't quite know their loyalties yet). We like the Captains as individuals (see Kenpachi fighting Nnoitra) but not when they start acting as instruments of the 13 Squads as a governing entity (see Kenpachi ordering Ichigo to go back and guard his little town).

Yikes! I'm an Aizen sympathiser! Don't tell Yama-jii or I might be exiled or executed or something!

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Well, well. Kubo certainly knows how to make things interesting, although admittedly, before I finished the spoilers earlier this week about the Maggot's Nest, I knew right away Kurotsuchi had to have been there at some point. Seireitei's Dr Frankenstein had to have been considered a threat, given all we've seen him do as a captain so far.

I'm just curious now as to whether or not Mayuri also worked on the Hyougokyu with Kisuke, I'd say it's probably, and if I have to take a guess at who was responsible for creating the Vizard for "research purposes" to judge the Hyougokyu's capabilities, Mayuri comes straight to mind again. Remember, all that was said was that Urahara never used it, it made no mention about anyone else.

On a side note, Bleach 166 ranks as the best episode of the anime ever produced. I knew it the Ichigo/Grimmjow was going to be good, but God damn, that was awesome.

[b][Edit][/b]

*Executes Raiyuu for his treasonous words*

All kidding aside, you did make very interesting points Raiyuu, although I think the Shinigami position against the Hollow is realistic. After all, if we assume that all souls in the world are "blanked" and recycled between the two worlds, then in effect, the Hollow do actually upset that balance. God knows how many souls one Hollow consumes over it's lifetime, but it's certainly a great number.

Taking that into account, if Hollow were simply allowed to go about their merry way, it would come to a point where Hollows would have consumed so many souls, recycling would be impossible and both worlds would effectively die, killing the Hollow in the process. Like all wild animals, their populations have to be controlled, making the Shinigami "balancers" for three worlds effectively, including Hueco Mundo.

As for the rest of it, about the Gotei 13 as a group, and Soul Society's coldness in general, I'm can't disagree. All those who show protagonist tendencies are seen to be mavericks, or exiles. Interesting line of thought anyway.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]On a side note, Bleach 166 ranks as the best episode of the anime ever produced. I knew it the Ichigo/Grimmjow was going to be good, but God damn, that was awesome.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I completely agree. Aside from Orihime's inner-conflict, it was nonstop badass action for 20 minutes. They did an amazing job portraying the level of power output we were seeing. Grimmjow's 'demonstration' of how devastating those explosives Ichigo absorbed were was awe-inspiring. There were several of those "dear [I][B]gawd[/B][/I] that was frickin' sweet" moments. Very well-done.

And to keep this a manga thread... Mayuri assisting with the hougyoku could be a serious possibility. He definitely has the brains to be of help with something like that. He still creeps me out though, regardless of how talented he is.

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...I think the Shinigami position against the Hollow is realistic. After all, if we assume that all souls in the world are "blanked" and recycled between the two worlds, then in effect, the Hollow do actually upset that balance. God knows how many souls one Hollow consumes over it's lifetime, but it's certainly a great number.

Taking that into account, if Hollow were simply allowed to go about their merry way, it would come to a point where Hollows would have consumed so many souls, recycling would be impossible and both worlds would effectively die, killing the Hollow in the process. Like all wild animals, their populations have to be controlled, making the Shinigami "balancers" for three worlds effectively, including Hueco Mundo.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]Going back to a point I made a few posts ago, where I said the Shinigami aren't really doing their job very well: think how many souls there must be in Hueco Mundo right now. Think how many souls are contained in the ten Espada alone! Take Aaroniero - as the only Gillian in the Espada, we can safely assume he contained the fewest souls out of all of them, and he contained around [i]thirty-three and a half thousand[/i] (can't remember the exact figure off hand). So every member of the Espada contains at least that. So the absolute smallest number of souls contained in the Espada is three hundred and thirty-five thousand, and in reality it's many more. That's in the ten most powerful Arrancar alone.

Then take into account all the free Menos wandering about. What do we reckon - ballpark figures, shall we say Gillian = around 10,000, Adjuchas = around 100,000, Vasto Lorde = 1,000,000 souls each? If we take that magic number ten as the number of Vasto Lordes in Hueco Mundo, we're looking at [i]ten million[/i] souls contained in those individuals alone. Assume there's one in the Espada and their figures go up dramatically. Add it all together with the random roaming Hollows and all those unhybridised Menos, and all the Numeros and Privaron Espada Arrancar (all of whom are Gillian and above), and the number of souls in Hueco Mundo supposedly 'upsetting the balance' is starting to look like a sizeable fraction of the population of Earth.

I just feel like, if Hueco Mundo is that well populated - and a good portion of its population contains thousands or tens of thousands of souls - then the balance really should have started shifting by now. But what effects have we seen in the real world? In Soul Society? Nothing, zip, nada. It makes me wonder whether that 'cosmic balancer' schtick is just an excuse to go a-hunting things they don't like - like Hollows and Quincy.

[Magus]

[quote name='M.Ali'][SIZE="2"][COLOR="DarkRed"]I dunno about Zaraki Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen....from the way that they were talking, they made seem as if there were more than one Kenpachi who always competed for the spot as Captain of the 11th division. Seems like another mystery to me...[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Re-reading chapter 108 (M7's translation. They always have something different.), I have to agree with you now. M7 has this Kenpachi labelled as being lazy and a pig. That don't sound anything like the Kenpachi we know.

I don't know how I didn't catch it the last time I read that chapter, but it also gave a clearer explanation on what captain Kenpachi killed to become a captain... (Assuming that the Kenpachi we know is the 12th Kenpachi Zaraki.) Think about that way, Tousen's explanation to Kenpachi and Aizen's explanation to Toshiro would make more sense in trying to piece everything together.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']I just feel like, if Hueco Mundo is that well populated - and a good portion of its population contains thousands or tens of thousands of souls - then the balance really should have started shifting by now. But what effects have we seen in the real world? In Soul Society? Nothing, zip, nada. It makes me wonder whether that 'cosmic balancer' schtick is just an excuse to go a-hunting things they don't like - like Hollows and Quincy.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Well that's the big problem, we have no real frame of reference to compare the balance between the three worlds now with the balances established in the past. What I'm going on is the fact the Quincy were apparently, and I use the word intentionally, wiped out over the fact they were disturbing the balance so much that it threatened to destroy all three worlds.

Now, seeing as we know actually rather little about the Quincy themselves, aside from the fact that they had individuals who had Captain level strength, and under certain circumstances could exceed that strength, means that they were very likely capable of dispatching Adjuchas, and even Vasto Lorde level Hollow. If you think about it, going on your line of thought Raiyuu about how many souls one of them could possible consume, you're talking about the destruction of millions if not more souls.

In the end, neither of us has enough overall evidence to prove our theories, I just feel that it's unlikely Shinigami assumed their task simply because they hate Hollow like Quincy do. As far as we've seen, Soul Society has never been directly attacked by Hollow, so if that's the case, it had to be for the protection of the real world.[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Oh, I didn't mean Soul Society was just using the 'balancer' thing as an excuse (though looking back at my last post that is how it came out...). I'm sure they're acting with the best of intentions, and genuinely believe what they're doing is vital work without which the universe will collapse. (And I'm not saying it isn't or it wouldn't, either.)

But look at it from the Arrancar point of view - these sinister guys in black just rock up in your private dimension to slaughter you 'for the greater good'. They didn't help you when you were a plus, just left you to turn into this monster that wantonly slaughters your living family and friends. You pulled yourself out of that, going through a long and arduous process of hybridisation to regain your reason, restraint and emotional range and now here they are finally; now you're a rival to them in terms of power, [i]now[/i] they've got the time to come deal with you, except it's the pointy end of the sword they're using this time.

You're absolutely right that neither of us can really prove or disprove anything without a direct line to KT, but it's fun to debate anyway.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']But look at it from the Arrancar point of view - these sinister guys in black just rock up in your private dimension to slaughter you 'for the greater good'. They didn't help you when you were a plus, just left you to turn into this monster that wantonly slaughters your living family and friends. You pulled yourself out of that, going through a long and arduous process of hybridisation to regain your reason, restraint and emotional range and now here they are finally; now you're a rival to them in terms of power, [i]now[/i] they've got the time to come deal with you, except it's the pointy end of the sword they're using this time.

You're absolutely right that neither of us can really prove or disprove anything without a direct line to KT, but it's fun to debate anyway.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Raiyuu, are you the new Hueco Mundo propaganda minister or something ?

My biggest problem about looking at things from the Arrancar's point of view is that they're really a pretty new addition to the denizens of Hueco Mundo, at least, the complete ones that Aizen has been creating. That, and actually entering Hueco Mundo directly is apparently something that Soul Society has never done before, discounting how Aizen obviously made contact with them to arrange his little plan.

I completely agree with you that from an Arrancar's POV, having regained their humanity so to speak, or at least portions of it, that the Shinigami mission to wipe them out may look akin to genocide. However, for the countless other non-Arrancar-ed Hollow in Hueco Mundo, who're still operating off their baser instincts, I think it has to be argued they at least are fair game.

That said, if we look back, Hollow like Grand Fisher were pretty articulate, even with their masks on, so it's hard to say.

Guess that would make me Soul Society's propaganda minister then wouldn't it ? Heh.[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Well, -105 answers the question of how Hiyori ended up Lieutenant of Research and Development - it wasn't Research and Development at the time, Kisuke and Mayuri made it that way. Maybe this explains why she went Vizard, too. If Kisuke left and Mayuri became my new Captain, I'd want to get as far away from him as possible, and give myself a massive power boost so I could hold him off if he ever came a-knockin'...

Also, is it just me, or was Yoruichi [i]flirting[/i] with mini-Byakuya?

[Magus]

[quote name='Raiyuu']Also, is it just me, or was Yoruichi [i]flirting[/i] with mini-Byakuya?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]I'm not certain if I'd say she was flirting. I just see her picking on him. But if you you're going by what other people say about "Girls picky/hitting guys means they like them", then I guess you can say she was flirting.

I find it a little funny that Byakuya used to be what Ichigo is now. "DEMON CAT" Seeing Byakuya say that sort of cracks me up.

No more shocking moments....[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']Also, is it just me, or was Yoruichi [i]flirting[/i] with mini-Byakuya?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I thought that at first, then it reminded me more of the Matsumoto and Hitsugaya moments when she teases him. Seriously though, if a beautiful woman lodged my head between her breasts, I sure as hell wouldn't get angry. Bah, and here I was looking forward to not seeing that little brat's mannerisms for a while.

Hmm, does anyone else think that Captain Kuchiki's Lieutenant in the last chapter looked a lot older than Byakuya ?

On a side note, seems we're back in fillers with the anime, pity, I wanted to see the rest of the Espada fights.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Hmm, does anyone else think that Captain Kuchiki's Lieutenant in the last chapter looked a lot older than Byakuya ?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Cuz he is lol. Some people are under the impression that that lieutenant is Byakuya's father.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Guest zaxstrife07]

Heheheh this is interesting without a doubt..... i cannot wait until they release the next actuall manga instead of the pendulum turnings.....:animesigh

[Gavin]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Some people are under the impression that that lieutenant is Byakuya's father.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Possible I suppose, although I'm not too keen on the idea two whole generations of Kuchiki captains, assuming Byakuya's dad replaced his grandfather and not Byakuya himself, occuring in only a hundred years. Kubo is going through captains a little fast for my tastes.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Random thoughts about ch 104.

-The two folks I would assume talking at the beginning of the chapter, I think it's Aizen and Gin. Unless this is where Urahara is caught doing his dirty work.

-Kensei is a funny guy.

-Hisagi... Guess it's safe to say he became a shinigami because of Kensei.

No shocking moments in this chapter either, but plenty of funny moments.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Kenpachi has to face off against Kensei at some point for the title of most badass Gotei 13 captain, that and Hinamori and Mashiro face off for most annoying lieutenant.

Quite a decent chapter overall, maybe a little more style over story in this case, I liked the link between Hisagi and Kensei, if they met back in the current timeline, I'm sure it'd be interesting, almost certain that Kensei would prefer Hisagi over Mashiro as his adjutant.

I'm still rather undecided as to who the two characters at the start were, Aizen mentioned himself that there were "others" with him, and I don't think he meant Gin or Tousen, so it's possible it was one or more of that group. It's equally possible of course that it was Kisuke and Mayuri, the freaky scientists of the 12th Division do seem to have very little regard for innocent lives.

Just OOC, was anyone else confused by the reference to there being living humans in Rukongai ? Maybe it was just the translation.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Kenpachi has to face off against Kensei at some point for the title of most badass Gotei 13 captain[/size][/quote]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Agreed, but then one of them would have to fight Byakuya for that title as well. Or they should just have a 3 way fight. Heh, I'm stil anxious to see a fight between Byakuya and Kenpachi so "shrugs".[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Quote=Gavin][Size=1]I'm still rather undecided as to who the two characters at the start were, Aizen mentioned himself that there were "others" with him, and I don't think he meant Gin or Tousen, so it's possible it was one or more of that group. It's equally possible of course that it was Kisuke and Mayuri, the freaky scientists of the 12th Division do seem to have very little regard for innocent lives.
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]The reason I say I think it's Aizen and Gin is because it's been a whole 9 years. While it's true that Aizen said there were others, Aizen declared that Gin was his vice captain, and I'm just assuming at this point that Gin is his only subordinate for right now. (Unless Tousen is already there.) But I agree, it is definately possible for it to be Kisuke and Mayuri to be behind the disappearances and whatnot.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Just rewatching some of the older episodes of Bleach, around when Ichigo was getting his Vizard training, a funny though occurred to me.

When a Shinigami becomes a Vizard, he has to defeat his inner-Hollow in order to gain full control of his powers. If he fails to do this, his/her inner-Hollow takes over and the Shinigami moves to the other extreme to become a Hollow, we know this already.

But is the reverse the case for an Arrancar ? Do Arrancar have to deal with inner-Shinigami to create their zanpakutou ? And if an Arrancar failed to defeat his inner-Shinigami, would be regain his heart and become one ? [/SIZE]

[Magus]

[COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]That's an interesting thought, Gavin. I don't have any thoughts about it though. Although, now that you mention it, I wonder how do arrancars gain a zanpakuto. I know that it's been stated that they try to take their masks off to become shinigami's, but that's it.

In any case, thought's on newest chapter.

-Things are finally heating up.
-Tessai has horns :)
-Kensei's hollow is a beast. (Ichigo's ugly)

-Still curious about bankais lol.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Phenom'][COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]That's an interesting thought, Gavin. I don't have any thoughts about it though. Although, now that you mention it, I wonder how do arrancars gain a zanpakuto. I know that it's been stated that they try to take their masks off to become shinigami's, but that's it.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, it's just a sort of weird theory that popped into my head. It'd certainly be an interesting twist on the whole thing, as certainly the Arrancar do genuinely show a lot more "humanity" for the lack of a better word than their Hollow brethren. God, imagine what Ulquiorra's inner-Shinigami would have been like, he'd probably have been utterly hyper and happy, like a small, male Matsumoto.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Phenom'][COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]In any case, thought's on newest chapter.

-Things are finally heating up.
-Tessai has horns :)
-Kensei's hollow is a beast. (Ichigo's ugly)

-Still curious about bankais lol.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Indeed. I was fairly surprised about the revelation behind Tessai's background, it really makes me curious why the ex-Kidou Corp Commander is now serving Urahara on Earth. Judging by Ukitake's reaction, he may be one of the longest serving Captain class fighters, seeing as he referred to the Quincy back in the early manga nostalgically.

Either way, Kubo now has to show just how powerful Tessai is with his kidou, I mean look how awesome Byakuya is, and now try to imagine someone who specialises in that style of fighting. Aizen vs. Tessai in a kidou match anyone ?

If that's his Hollow mask, Kensei has the most bad-*** of all the ones so far, although I still think Ichigo's hollow form is pretty cool. Seems we're going to find out exactly how the Vaizard were created pretty soon. [/SIZE]