Manga Bleach Manga [Warning: Spoilers]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"] Ulquiorra, please, kill Nnoitra and develop an even greater fanbase.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Yes! That would be [I]amazing[/I]. He'd have my full support. And I wouldn't put it beyond him. That actually sounds like something he'd love to do. He has that "I'm surrounded by idiots" appearance that could let him be pushed over the edge. I totally see him snapping and killing a comrade, remaining perfectly composed the whole time, of course.


[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Orihime, I don't know, she's never really interested me as a character, so what happens to her as long as it's good for the story is fine with me.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I'd like her to [I]become[/I] more interesting, and we all know that won't happen due to a personality change. Her abilities are her only hope of garnering our affection. I'm not really attached to any of the female characters, with the exception of Yoruichi and Ururu (for obvious reasons). Is it possible Kubo has a harder time writing them?

[Magus]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]I think we all just want to see [strike]mini Byakuya[/strike] Ulquiorra again. ^^

It's funny that you mention seeing a snappy side of Ulquiorra, TwistedChick, because it would be kind of shocking to see him all snappy. And like Itachi, I just don't think it would fit him all too well. Even in death, I don't see him getting pissed. But I've been surprised a few times, though...

When Nnoitora first appeared, or rather when he took out Chad, I didn't think he would be all that bad, but I can't stand his "sexist" attitude. If he didn't have that attitude, I probably wouldn't mind him gloating so much.

Only female characters I like are Matsumoto, Youruchii, Nell [spoiler]adult version[/spoiler], and Hyori. (I think that's her name) So it's safe to say that I don't care about Orihime lol.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]I think we all just want to see [strike]mini Byakuya[/strike] Ulquiorra again. ^^[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]No, no, no, Memphis, Mini-Byakuya is obviously Neji. I thought everyone knew that. ^_^

But yeah, more Ulquiorra is definitely preferable to more Nnoitra. Him fighting Kenpachi would have been a far more interesting match.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]Even in death, I don't see him getting pissed. But I've been surprised a few times, though...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]After what we've seen happen to Itachi after his personality change, Ulquiorra needs to stay exactly the way he is, frozenly badass.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]No, no, no, Memphis, Mini-Byakuya is obviously Neji. I thought everyone knew that. ^_^[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Yep. Honor and rules over all else. The whole "you should feel privileged to be defeated by me". Even the slight change of attitude. Them be clones.


[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]After what we've seen happen to Itachi after his personality change, Ulquiorra needs to stay exactly the way he is, frozenly badass.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

He will [I]always[/I] have the same demeanor. No crazy "I am evil and will destroy you all! hahahahahahahaha!!" from him. Just perhaps a larger scale repeat of his Yami smack-down. 'My subordinate/comrade is getting carried away. To prevent something disgraceful from taking place, I will end this myself.'

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]No, no, no, Memphis, Mini-Byakuya is obviously Neji. I thought everyone knew that. ^_^[/size][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]How right you are. I didn't even pay it much attention until you mentioned it lol. And mainly because there hasn't been any focus on Neji at all, I forgot about him... But that's a conversation for another day. (and thread ^^)

I find the Nnoitora / Kenpachi fight interesting. I'm just tired of seeing Nnoitora. Actually, I tired of seeing almost all of these characters in Hueco Mundo. (Except Byakuya, Ulquiorra, and Kenpachi) I want to see another Urahara fight. Portable Gigai's are a very intriguing way to fight.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']The whole "you should feel privileged to be defeated by me".[/quote]

[SIZE="1"]I watched the Byakuya/Renji fight again today, it is really amazingly similar in terms of dialogue to the Neji/Naruto fight from the Chuunin Exams. One only wonders how much more similar they'd be if Neji had been born into the Main Family as opposed to the Branch.[/SIZE]

[quote name='TwistedChick']He will [I]always[/I] have the same demeanor. No crazy "I am evil and will destroy you all! hahahahahahahaha!!" from him. Just perhaps a larger scale repeat of his Yami smack-down. 'My subordinate/comrade is getting carried away. To prevent something disgraceful from taking place, I will end this myself.'[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Hopefully anyway, I can't imagine Kubo is going to take cues from Kishi after how badly his portrayal of Itachi has become.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]I want to see another Urahara fight. Portable Gigai's is a very intriguing way to fight.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, he's shown himself to be able to outfight an Espada using only his shikai and tactics Aizen would probably compliment. He'd damn well better make a reappearance in Hueco Mundo, as his flunky replacement Mayuri has already had his fight.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Yeah, he's shown himself to be able to outfight an Espada using only his shikai and tactics Aizen would probably compliment. He'd damn well better make a reappearance in Hueco Mundo, as his flunky replacement Mayuri has already had his fight.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Urahara's always been one of my favorites, and as usual, my favs tend to get gyped when it comes to screentime. He reminds me of Kakashi. They both have that subdued cool that, when coupled with skill and strategy, simply screams badass. But neither get enough action. Urahara is long overdue for some butt-stomping, that's for sure. So far, he's pretty much stayed out of it, and though I don't see him making an appearance in Soul Society any time soon, he might just pop up in Hueco Mundo. Maybe Yoruichi could tag along?

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='TwistedChick']I'd like her to [I]become[/I] more interesting, and we all know that won't happen due to a personality change. Her abilities are her only hope of garnering our affection. I'm not really attached to any of the female characters, with the exception of Yoruichi and Ururu (for obvious reasons). Is it possible Kubo has a harder time writing them?[/quote][color=#503F86]It is a shonen anime, though; it's more geared to action rather than interpersonal relationships, which play a fairly superficial role in the grand scheme of things. It's probably easier for a male writer/artist to write something more male-orientated that can properly capture the subtleties of male behaviour and make that part of the story. You've got a very diverse range of male characters but a lot of the females fall into archetypal roles (not that many of the male ones don't either, though :p). So maybe, heh.

Having said that, the female characters just haven't been given that much to do- Soi Fon had her entire backstory and resolution set out in a very short while; Rukia's just faced off against her past and Orihime's history was made clear at the very beginning of the series. The only difference is that Orihime has never completely grasped her powers so she hasn't even had a decent battle with anyone, but with only three techniques at her disposal there isn't far to take that. Aside from Tatsuki, who's been rather unfairly sidelined (might have been nice to see her in a coaching role for Orihime, or something) and a number of secondary characters who only serve one purpose each, that only really leaves Yoruichi to have any kind of meaningful story left to reveal. I can't see Orihime being much other than a damsel in distress unless she's given one last fight to prove herself in (but I'm reckoning if that happens then she'll collapse straight afterwards and then not do anything else).[/color]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine'][color=#503F86]It's probably easier for a male writer/artist to write something more male-orientated that can properly capture the subtleties of male behaviour and make that part of the story.[/color][/QUOTE]

That's what I think. Though any girl with half a brain can see the value of shounen works, guys do tend to get more into them, perhaps because they see parts of themselves in the characters. Since the female characters aren't as true to life, it can be harder for girls to relate. I personally would take shounen over shojo any day. But, it just seems to be that female characters really do get shoved into, as you put it, archetypal roles even more often than males, at least when being written by men. Kubo's done a nice job with Yoruichi, but when you really look at her, for all her behavior and antics, she might as well be a man. Maybe that's why I find her interesting. I'd managed to overlook Tatsuki (shame on me) but, for the relatively small amount of exposure she's gotten, she might just be the closest to a girl you'd really meet. Personality-wise, there aren't as many of the extremes in her. Even her tomboy-ness is softened by her deep friendships with Orihime and Ichigo. There are aspects of other female characters that one can relate to, but overall, they seem to be pretty out there. You have whiny girls, helpless girls, "I'm coming out of my clothes" girls, uber-cute girls, and "I'm in love with [blank] " girls. For the most part, they're overlooked, not only because the story doesn't so much rely on them, but also because they're not that interesting. At least to me. But, I [I]am[/I] a girl. Maybe the guy viewers/readers are more entertained by them than I'd be.

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='TwistedChick']You have whiny girls, helpless girls, "I'm coming out of my clothes" girls, uber-cute girls, and "I'm in love with [blank] " girls. For the most part, they're overlooked, not only because the story doesn't so much rely on them, but also because they're not that interesting. At least to me. But, I [I]am[/I] a girl. Maybe the guy viewers/readers are more entertained by them than I'd be.[/quote][color=#503F86]That's exactly what I was thinking ^_^

I'm a guy, though, and I really really like the series. It has a lot of ideas running through it that I really connect with. And for the most part the characters' sex isn't relevant to the story- they each a part to play and as long as Kubo isn't trying to make them more than they already are, I think it works. If you start taking it apart you begin to see the inconsistencies in depth of character, but being a guy I can understand how boys may well perceive a lot of girls in similar ways they're seen in Bleach.

And I agree with what you say about Yoruichi- I think both she and Rukia, for their portrayal and parts in the story, could easily have been male or female. Same with Kukaku Shiba. And yeah, I'd agree that Tatsuki is probably the most realistic (although she's still a tomboy). But they're all very strong female characters- they hold a lot of power, and coming from a society that's still very male-dominant they'd have to have traits that make a lot of men strong to be where they are, The truly girly-girls are the characters like Orihime, Rangiku and Yachiru (although she's almost too young to count).

An interesting observation ^_^[/color]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine'][color=#503F86]But they're all very strong female characters- they hold a lot of power, and coming from a society that's still very male-dominant they'd have to have traits that make a lot of men strong to be where they are.[/color][/QUOTE]

It goes without saying that women in Japan are viewed very differently than those in other parts of the world, definitely from where I am in the States. My sister was recently in Japan for three weeks and in just that amount of time, the difference in social understanding was evident. I guess that really could have a bit more to do with female portrayals in anime than I ever thought. From a fighting standpoint, women in Bleach can get the job done about as good as the guys. I guess that says something coming from their society.

None of that matters that much to me. I think Kubo's done an excellent job balancing the different aspects of Bleach. I love the story, the characters, the themes. All I really want is more of it. I want it to get bigger and more badass, and from the looks of it, that's exactly what will keep happening. Now all we need is for Kenpachi to buckle down and kill that mother so we can move forward.

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]You know, for just a second there, when Kenpachi talked about having to use "it", I thought he meant Bankai. Oh well, Kenpachi holding that badass sword of his with both hands was enough. I wonder how much of a power increase he's actually talking about, either way, hopefully we're not too far away from the roach that is Nnoitra from being exterminated.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

I can't believe I never noticed that he always used one handed thrusts. Since Kenpachi has always been about raw power, switching to two will make a huge difference. Any novice knows that, so in the hands of someone of his caliber, we should be able to see something spectacular.

But, yeah. I hoped he was referring to bankai too. Sucks to be us.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']Sucks to be us.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Heh, too true. ^_^;

I have to admit, I did a double-take when Kenpachi calmly revealed that simply holding his sword in both hands would make him so much stronger. I know the whole thing about a two-handed grip being superior to a one-handed grip, but for Kenpachi, it just seems oddly simple. I wonder if it's part of his "fight enjoyment" too.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]I wonder if it's part of his "fight enjoyment" too.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

His concept of enjoyment is so twisted, I wouldn't be too surprised if he revealed he'd been holding his breath or counting backwards from 100 during his battles to make them more challenging. Any and every thing that he can do to restrict himself and complicate matters he'll implement. To see him really get serious...he must view the opponent as something special. Which sucks cause we all hate Nnoitora. >.<

But, if he's just now pulling out a basic tactic like two-handed swordplay, who knows what other simple things he could do to bump himself up a notch. He doesn't seem to stick to any particular sword form, so maybe he could adopt an actual style, one that isn't just hacking and swinging, but one that involves strategy and technique. He's already hearkened back to his old kendo days, so perhaps we're about to see his [I]skill[/I], not just his power.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']so perhaps we're about to see his [I]skill[/I], not just his power.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]That's exactly what I was thinking. Kenpachi usually just fights like a berserker, showing relatively little skill but mountains of power. Even if he was gruff about having to learn kendo, I have little doubt he picked it up fast, probably even managed to kill someone with his bokken too. ^_^;

I wonder what lame-*** trick Nnoitra will pull out this time to try and even the score...[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]I find it amazing how it seems like Kenpachi seemed to have become more focused (Kenshin-type focused) just by grabbing the sword with two hands. I don't want to say his personality changed, but he seems more serious now than earlier (as well as other fights).

Good chapter, and the artwork on this one is really good.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='TwistedChick']They live a very long time. But how does that work with keeping the balance between Soul Society and earth? If it's life for life, shouldn't Soul Society have been overpopulated by short-lived humans long ago? [/QUOTE]
I know this post was a few pages back but I've just been catching up on the thread after a longish absence.

I think the answer to this (and it's a 'plot hole' that's occurred to me, too) is that not everyone in Soul Society lives that long - it's just Shinigami, who, although a very large amount of them are shown, still make up a tiny minority of the population of Soul Society as a whole. Only 'those with power' require food, to feed that power; I think it makes sense that only 'those with power' have that incredible longevity, as well.

And a more recent one...

[quote name='TwistedChick']To see him really get serious...he must view the opponent as something special. Which sucks cause we all hate Nnoitora. >.<[/quote]
I didn't see the use of kendo as anything to with respecting Nnoitra. He's realised that Nnoitra, though strong, is nothing like him; Nnoitra constantly declares the battle to be over, after every seeming deathblow, which shows he's not interested in prolonging and enjoying the fight, as Kenpachi is. All Nnoitra wants is to kill Kenpachi as quickly as possible, thus proving his strength. This does not sit well with Kenpachi - it makes for short, uninteresting battles!

I see the resort to kendo as Kenpachi realising that his opponent is determined to deny him a long, enjoyable fight, and deciding he'd better just get it over with so a) he won't accidentally die and not be able to cut stuff any more, and b) he can move on and find someone more suitable to carve up.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']I think the answer to this (and it's a 'plot hole' that's occurred to me, too) is that not everyone in Soul Society lives that long - it's just Shinigami, who, although a very large amount of them are shown, still make up a tiny minority of the population of Soul Society as a whole. Only 'those with power' require food, to feed that power; I think it makes sense that only 'those with power' have that incredible longevity, as well.[/quote]

[SIZE="1"]That's actually a very good point Stu, I hadn't considered it at all, and it does make quite a bit of sense when you think about it.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu']I didn't see the use of kendo as anything to with respecting Nnoitra. He's realised that Nnoitra, though strong, is nothing like him; Nnoitra constantly declares the battle to be over, after every seeming deathblow, which shows he's not interested in prolonging and enjoying the fight, as Kenpachi is. All Nnoitra wants is to kill Kenpachi as quickly as possible, thus proving his strength. This does not sit well with Kenpachi - it makes for short, uninteresting battles!

I see the resort to kendo as Kenpachi realising that his opponent is determined to deny him a long, enjoyable fight, and deciding he'd better just get it over with so a) he won't accidentally die and not be able to cut stuff any more, and b) he can move on and find someone more suitable to carve up.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Definitely b) is true there, I swear, Kenpachi is just at the wrong end of the spirit spectrum in reality, that or he's something that not even Hell could put up with. Either way you're right, he's realised that it's not a fight he can enjoy, at least not without the risk of dying first, and he probably see's Nnoitra as an opponent who's not worth having fun with.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...he's realised that it's not a fight he can enjoy, at least not without the risk of dying first, and he probably see's Nnoitra as an opponent who's not worth having fun with.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

And so he [I]finally[/I] fells him...but only after an attempt for a sympathy vote via flashback. Sorry, no sympathy here. I'm glad Kenpachi's attack was able to nearly remove his shoulder and arms from his body. At last we see something that's effective.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']And so he [I]finally[/I] fells him...but only after an attempt for a sympathy vote via flashback. Sorry, no sympathy here. I'm glad Kenpachi's attack was able to nearly remove his shoulder and arms from his body. At last we see something that's effective.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I have to admit, I was worried for just a brief second there that Nnoitra's flashback meant he was going to reveal yet another ace he's been holding in reserve.

What amazed me though was that Kenpachi didn't have even a look of effort when he killed Nnoitra, God help the next Espada he decided to have a fight with, well, after he's healed up those scatches roach-boy managed to deal him. Heh, wonder if he'll take an interest in Nel if he learns she's the former 3rd Espada ?[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Well, he may well get a crack at number 4 in the next few chapters - it's been a good long while since Grimmjow teleported Ulquiorra away, and he could supposedly only be contained for an hour or so. Grimmjow didn't even seem sure he'd stay banished until he and Ichigo had finished, and we've had Nnoitra/Ichigo, Tesla/Ichigo and Nnoitra/Kenpachi since then.

Next chapter we'll have some recuperation, some japery with Ichigo, Kenpachi and Yachiru (and maybe Nel, Ichigo's very own Yachiru-style accessory - all hardasses need a tiny cute girl riding around on their shoulder!), and then in the final couple of pages Ulquiorra will pop out of nowhere and it'll all be on again. Ichigo+Kenpachi+Nel+Yachiru(+Inoue+Neriel+Grimmjow?) all versus Ulquiorra. Please please please.

[TwistedChick]

Kenpachi taking on Ulquiorra would be interesting. I wonder if we might see that... It feels like Ichigo will go up against him though. I wonder if Kenpachi will ever get that rematch with Ichigo he's been wanting. They're together now. Might he just...?

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='TwistedChick']I wonder if Kenpachi will ever get that rematch with Ichigo he's been wanting. They're together now. Might he just...?[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]Probably not. It would break the flow of the story if that happened now. Or ever, really. To me that just seems like a continuing motivation for Kenpachi to keep Ichigo alive for the rest of the story, so I think it's unlikely it'll actually happen. Much like the many people who promise to fight each other in Naruto, and then don't.[/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']Well, he may well get a crack at number 4 in the next few chapters - it's been a good long while since Grimmjow teleported Ulquiorra away, and he could supposedly only be contained for an hour or so. Grimmjow didn't even seem sure he'd stay banished until he and Ichigo had finished, and we've had Nnoitra/Ichigo, Tesla/Ichigo and Nnoitra/Kenpachi since then.[/quote]

[SIZE="1"]I don't know, as much as I like Kenpachi, I just see the person inevitably confronting him again to be Ichigo. It's sort of like Byakuya for him all over again, he's fought him and been utterly beaten, and now he's come back with even more of his power under control for the rematch.

Really actually, it was a pity to waste Byakuya on Zommari, a fight between the former and Ulquiorra would definitely have been interesting to watch.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu']Next chapter we'll have some recuperation, some japery with Ichigo, Kenpachi and Yachiru (and maybe Nel, Ichigo's very own Yachiru-style accessory - all hardasses need a tiny cute girl riding around on their shoulder!), and then in the final couple of pages Ulquiorra will pop out of nowhere and it'll all be on again. Ichigo+Kenpachi+Nel+Yachiru(+Inoue+Neriel+Grimmjow?) all versus Ulquiorra. Please please please.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, I imagine the next chapter or two won't be fight centred, which isn't too bad, as we've had plenty already. I wonder if Inoue heals Nel, will she be able to return to her adult form permanently ? As for Grimmjow, I don't know, he's never had much loyalty to Aizen, at least in comparison to Ulquiorra, same for Tousen and Gin. It's a possibility he may switch sides, which is going to prompt a fight between him and Kenpachi over who gets the first rematch with Ichigo. ^_^;[/SIZE]