Manga Bleach Manga [Warning: Spoilers]

[Magus]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]I also thought that Zomari was up their in the top three. Had the old espada as the 7th. Only because everyone knows that the old people are always the strongest... Anyway,

Ulquiorra's back, finally.

I wonder how KT is going to do this. Show Ulquiorra and Ichigo duke it out first, or show the showdown between the captains and espadas? (perhaps even flip flop)

One thing I noticed that the captains missed. Ichimaru and Tousen's not there. If Aizen already knows that Karakura is in SS, then I think it would be fairly obvious that Aizen has already taken steps ahead of everyone else. Possible to get a [spoiler]Gin and Tousen vs Urahara and Isshin showdown?[/spoiler] Okay, I'm done with wishful thinking. :)

[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Possible to get a Gin and Tousen vs Urahara and Isshin showdown?[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I don't know if we were supposed to have noticed that they're missing, so it sure seems likely they'll pop up in the real Karakura town. Sure would be nice to see them face off with Uruahara and Isshin. As long as those two get in on the action, I'll be happy (if they both survive that is >.<).

I've got to say, seeing Yamamoto standing firm against Aizen is quite impressive. He has a rather imposing presence, doesn't he? Sure seems like someone you wouldn't want to mess around with.

(I use 'sure' too often...)

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]It seems nobody else noticed it, but in one of the last few pages, if you look in the garganta behind Aizen, you can see Gin's outline clearly enough, and across from him what I assume to be Tousen, although he's rather hard to descern.

Like Mem, I'm wondering if they're going to alternate between the fights, or just do them one after another. If it's the latter, I think we've seen plenty of Ichigo fighting for the moment, and of course, so many powerful opponents facing off in the real world, the prospect of unseen bankai becomes rather likely, so I hope Kubo starts with the Gotei 13 fights.

If it's the former, I still hope we get to start with the Gotei 13 fights and see a bit of them before it switches over to Ichigo and Ulquiorra. I can't help but wonder, with him back to his old "resolve" and control of his inner Hollow, is he strong enough to take down the 4th Espada ? Remember, it was Ulquiorra himself who said that Ichigo when fully in sync with his inner Hollow had a higher reiatsu than him.

For fights in the real world, well I'm not going to call the remaining fights, heh, I just want to see them.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]It seems nobody else noticed it, but in one of the last few pages, if you look in the garganta behind Aizen, you can see Gin's outline clearly enough, and across from him what I assume to be Tousen, although he's rather hard to descern.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


But also note that unlike the Espada who come trapsing through the rifts, they're hanging back - a detail that begs some explaining if they were going to join the fight with the Gotei 13. Would Kubo miss the opportunity to draw a panel of Gin looking all evil and pleased unless he had other things for him in mind?

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']Would Kubo miss the opportunity to draw a panel of Gin looking all evil and pleased unless he had other things for him in mind?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Depends really on what Kubo plans to do with them in the coming fight, Aizen has six captains to face, not including the ex-captains in the living world as well as one captain-level Quincy. It's fair to say numbers aren't on his side, so having Gin and Tousen hang back does beg the question what they're going to be doing while this is going on. Tracking down Urahara would seem a logical enough idea.

Either way, I want to see a few of those unseen bankai. Yama-ji's is definitely going to be impressive, being the most powerful zanpakutou in all Soul Society.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]It seems nobody else noticed it, but in one of the last few pages, if you look in the garganta behind Aizen, you can see Gin's outline clearly enough, and across from him what I assume to be Tousen, although he's rather hard to descern.[/quote]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]So they are. Guess that shows the importance of Tousen and Gin :). Aizen and the espadas stole the whole page while Tousen and Gin were overlooked, heh.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[quote name='Gavin][size=1']I can't help but wonder, with him back to his old "resolve" and control of his inner Hollow, is he strong enough to take down the 4th Espada ? Remember, it was Ulquiorra himself who said that Ichigo when fully in sync with his inner Hollow had a higher reiatsu than him.[/SIZE][/quote]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Perhaps, and proven, sort of in their previous schuffle, Ichigo can overpower Ulquiorra with the mask, but then again, Ulquiorra's sleeves was the only thing that took damage. So, I'm sort of tossing what Ulquiorra said out the window at this point. And then there's also the thought of Ulquiorra releasing.... (I have Ulquiorra pegged as a vasto lorde)

[quote name='TwistedChick']I've got to say, seeing Yamamoto standing firm against Aizen is quite impressive. He has a rather imposing presence, doesn't he?[/quote]
No doubt. But maybe his ego is as big as Aizen's.

Out of all the unseen bankai, Aizen's the one I'm mostly curious about. I'm mean his shikai has the cheapest ability, and how could one actually expand on that ability?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Perhaps, and proven, sort of in their previous schuffle, Ichigo can overpower Ulquiorra with the mask, but then again, Ulquiorra's sleeves was the only thing that took damage. So, I'm sort of tossing what Ulquiorra said out the window at this point. And then there's also the thought of Ulquiorra releasing.... (I have Ulquiorra pegged as a vasto lorde)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I've had Ulquiorra pegged as a Vasto Lorde from the start, if only because he looks exactly like the Vasto Lorde shown in the background when Hitsugaya was giving his explanation of the Menos classes to Ichigo, well that and his general ***-kickery so far.

Obviously Ichigo is going to defeat Ulquiorra in the end, it's been building up to that for God knows how long, and he has to do so in order to rescue Orihime as Ulquiorra is the last of Aizen's Espada left in Hueco Mundo. It's interesting in that Ulquiorra does not seem genuinely evil, at least compared to other Espada, more so utterly loyal to Aizen. I'm not calling him good by any stretch of the imagination, just that we should hopefully get some interesting dialogue between the two.

Anyone else want to see Neliel fight again ?[/SIZE]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]No doubt. But maybe his ego is as big as Aizen's.

Out of all the unseen bankai, Aizen's the one I'm mostly curious about. I'm mean his shikai has the cheapest ability, and how could one actually expand on that ability?[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, have to say, Aizen's shikai ability is the one that really comes closest to a bankai out of all of them. If I had to guess, I'd say that his bankai will expand on the ways he can trap someone in his [strike]genjutsu[/strike] illusions using his [strike]Sharingan[/strike] Zanpakutou, i.e. hearing or smell aside from touch. Heh, yeah, no similarities there. ^_^; Aizen seems to be suffering from the Uchiha Itachi villain complex.

As for how Yama-jiisan is going to beat Aizen, I haven't a clue, but it will be a kick-*** fight to watch.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Obviously Ichigo is going to defeat Ulquiorra in the end, it's been building up to that for God knows how long, and he has to do so in order to rescue Orihime as Ulquiorra is the last of Aizen's Espada left in Hueco Mundo. It's interesting in that Ulquiorra does not seem genuinely evil, at least compared to other Espada, more so utterly loyal to Aizen. I'm not calling him good by any stretch of the imagination, just that we should hopefully get some interesting dialogue between the two.

Anyone else want to see Neliel fight again ?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Of course Ichigo's going to defeat Ulquiorra. I just hope Ulquiorra don't have any lame reasons for fighting / doing what he do, like Grimmjow.

You're not saying you want to see Neliel fight again just to stare at her, are you? :p
Joking aside, yes, seeing Nels fight with Nnoitora was perhaps the best fight in HM, (before SS reinforcement) and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing her fight once more.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Of course Ichigo's going to defeat Ulquiorra. I just hope Ulquiorra don't have any lame reasons for fighting / doing what he do, like Grimmjow.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Well obviously he has an interest in Ichigo, what with constantly assessing his strength and the strike throuh his opponent in the same place as his own hollow hole showing as such. Now all it depends on is whether Ulquiorra's interest is personal like Grimmjow's, or purely out of loyalty to Aizen.

I have to say though, I actually liked Grimmjow's reasons for fighting. For someone like Ichigo who's resolve comes from protecting others, it was kinda cool to see someone like Grimm who's resolve came out of his lone-wolf personality. [/SIZE]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]You're not saying you want to see Neliel fight again just to stare at her, are you? :p
[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Uhh...ummm...uhhh...No comment. ^_^;[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Aizen's shikai release already handles all five senses, hearing and smell included. His bankai is anyone's guess.

I'm interested to know where Isshin, Urahara, Ryuuken, Keigo, Mizuiro, Tatsuki and the Vizards actually are right now. The citizens of real Karakura are asleep on the outskirts of Rukongai, and the fake Karakura now in the real world is meant to be empty of everyone but the Gotei 13.

I assume anyone of sufficient spirit power can probably wake up. Someone mentioned the possibility that the Vizards are in Aizen's employ - what if they are, and have been transplanted smack dab into Soul Society? Oops.

Or, alternatively, what if Aizen sends some troops to the real Karakura in SS, expecting to find 10,000 obligingly slumbering souls ready for sacrifice, only to be faced with *drumroll* Tatsuki and co, who KT is assuming we've all forgotten about?

.:EDIT:.
SQUEE VIZARD FLASHBACK. So Aizen was Shinji's Lieutenant, and Hiyori was Urahara's ... who the heck thought it was a good plan to put Hiyori in Research and Development? Maybe her job is to test new inventions to destruction?

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]God damn, that was just an awesome chapter.

I'm not even that bothered about the amount of new questions this chapter raises, like exactly what happened to transform four Gotei 13 captains into Vaizard exiles, how one actually gets into the Royal Guard, who's in the Royal Guard now, etc.

One of the things that threw me off slightly was the idea of the current Captains only a century ago in the current time line, only four of them had been in the job since the previous century. Like Shinji says, Soul Society seems to go through Captains like toilet paper.

I'm actually really curious to know as well, who else was a captain around that point too, and where the other Vaizard fitted into the Gotei 13 ranks.

In short: Love + Full Afro = Pwnage[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Now I can actually let loose after reading this chapter..

Fan theories can officially be tossed out the window here. Not that I actually went by them before, but some of what I've heard has been interesting points.

Almost every friggin vaizard is a previous captain/vice captain... Really makes one questions Aizen's strength.

So Yama-Ji, Unohana, Shunsui and Ukitake were the original captains before Aizen. With Kenpachi and Urahara also being a captain before Aizen. I guess I was pretty close lol. That still makes me wonder where does Isshin comes in at?

And then Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen is a shocker. I swear I never would've guessed that one. Sort of makes me wonder can Byakuya actually beat Kenpachi... That remains to be seen.

Biggest question that arose from this chapter for me is; Are Aizen and Urahara vaizards? They both know how one becomes a vaizard, and they both know how to make arrancars and whatnot...

Who is Hiyori's captain? She seems like a perfect fit for being Kenpachi's vice captain, unless Isshin is her captain.

Edit: I also never would've guessed that that was Shinji's real hair lol.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[M.Ali]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]So Yama-Ji, Unohana, Shunsui and Ukitake were the original captains before Aizen. With Kenpachi and Urahara also being a captain before Aizen. I guess I was pretty close lol. That still makes me wonder where does Isshin comes in at?

And then Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen is a shocker. I swear I never would've guessed that one. Sort of makes me wonder can Byakuya actually beat Kenpachi... That remains to be seen.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="2"][COLOR="DarkRed"]I dunno about Zaraki Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen....from the way that they were talking, they made seem as if there were more than one Kenpachi who always competed for the spot as Captain of the 11th division. Seems like another mystery to me...[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

Since Aizen wasn't a captain yet 100 years ago, I can only imagine how recent Gin's appointment must have been. I mean, if Renji and Rukia first met Aizen after he'd made captain and Gin was just a lieutenant then, he's pretty new. I guess my theories about Hitsugaya and frequent captain shuffling have a bit of truth in them... Score one for me. ^^

This really raises so many questions, but all in a good way. I actually look forward to having these questions answered. Like who woulda guessed Urahara could get into trouble so quickly after making captain? He [I]does[/I] have that mischievous air about him...

[QUOTE]I dunno about Zaraki Kenpachi being a captain before Aizen....from the way that they were talking, they made seem as if there were more than one Kenpachi who always competed for the spot as Captain of the 11th division.[/QUOTE]

Calling him a "loose cannon" and mentioning the previous Kenpachi being "inept"... I think those are supposed to lead us to Zaraki being the one talked about.

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]After reading back over the chapter, it does seem that Kenpachi reached Captain before Aizen, which is a bit of a shocker in reality. What surprised me most though came from the bottom right-hand panel of page 13 [url=http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/13/][B]here[/B][/url], where Ukitake refers to Unohaha as [i]senpai[/i], I seriously didn't see it come she was older than the two of them, or at least, a captain before them.

As for Hiyori, well from her lieutenant's armband which can be seen [url=http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/16/][B]here[/B][/url], she looks to be twelth squad, which makes absolutely no sense at all given her character.[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Yeah, like I said about Hiyori. Research and Development? Who'd a thunk it? (There is a boxout in the chapter that explicitly states she's 12th Division Lieutenant, but for some reason Binktopia blacked it out in their scanlation - it's in the panel after Love's boxout, where she's telling him he shouldn't slap other people's Lieutenants.)

To answer Memphis' question, Hiyori's Captain was an unknown called Hikifune, who was promoted to the Royal Guard and replaced with Urahara.

So whose side are the Vizards on now? One was Urahara's subordinate; another was Aizen's superior. I'm hoping Shinji feels responsible for Aizen's defection and general evil-ness and is leading his team to atone for that by rubbing Aizen out.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']I'm hoping Shinji feels responsible for Aizen's defection and general evil-ness and is leading his team to atone for that by rubbing Aizen out.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I don't know, Shinji already revealed that he knew about Aizen, the Hougokyou and the all that jazz for years and yet he never did anything about it. He's also said he doesn't involve himself in Shinigami affairs anymore either, so it just doesn't seem to be he's going to feel particularly responsible for anything Aizen has done.

I'd like to see this flashback continued for another chapter or two, just to get some more info, and maybe see a few more familiar faces.

Just purely out of curiousity, does anyone else here buy into the theory that Isshin was/is part of the Shiba clan ? I know it's fairly out of context from what we've been talking about, but I've been mulling over the theory for a while, and actually agree with it. Heh, fan-theories are always fun.[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

Just had to post this - it's an April Fool drawn by some French guy, masquerading as the title page for the next chapter. It's quite an obvious fake - the masks look more like something out of D.Gray-man than something KT would draw - but that doesn't mean it isn't very nicely drawn, and a lot of effort to go to for a prank.

[center][img]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8182/1207084432454cy2.jpg[/img][/center]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]I've been waiting so long for someone else to post here.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu']But that doesn't mean it isn't very nicely drawn, and a lot of effort to go to for a prank.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I was just thinking that myself, although I have to say, by comparison to Kensei's and Rose's hollow masks, I just don't like Love's.

For just a second there, I thought you were posting an early spoiler pic and I was literally going O_O at the thought that's how Kuukaku lost the arm.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Just purely out of curiousity, does anyone else here buy into the theory that Isshin was/is part of the Shiba clan ? ...I've been mulling over the theory for a while, and actually agree with it. Heh, fan-theories are always fun.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


I'd never thought of it before, but it [I]would[/I] be interesting. There is some pretty strong physical resemblence, and even his behavioral patterns ring a few similarity-bells. Oh, poor Ichigo. To be related to Ganju... What would that entail as far as any of the other Shibas being shinigami...?

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']To be related to Ganju... What would that entail as far as any of the other Shibas being shinigami...?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Well you see that's what intrigued me about the theory, it actually does explain a few things. I mean, we know the Shiba clan fell into disgrace at some point in the past, to the point where Ganju and Kuukaku are the only known members and lost their position as one of Seireitei's Five Great Houses.

Now that got me thinking, what could actually cause something like that to happen ? Kaien getting killed trying to avenge his wife, and putting a Kuchiki is danger in the process ? Too petty, even for the Kuchiki clan. We know that Kuukaku wanted nothing to do with Shinigami after Kaien's death, and Ganju himself was too young to understand fully those reasons, aside from his big brother's body was dragged back and presented to him without reason by Rukia.

But really, is there more to it than that ? The Shihouin Clan were disgraced because their heir Yoruichi committed treason apparently by fleeing with Urahara, so was that the same for the Shiba ? If it was, then obviously, it had to have been someone really high up doing it, and remember what Byakuya said, the noble families have a reiatsu which separates them from the commoners, i.e. they're the ones that the Captain-class Shinigami usually come from.

Obviously that insinuates that it was a Captain or someone of approximately that status from the Shiba clan who did something to cause that disgrace. Remember when Ganju said that he was part of the Shiba clan to Byakuya, and the Kuchiki heir instantly switch from "be gone irritation" to "I will kill you seriously" mode ? That struck me as odd, and the best explanation I can come up with is that Byakuya was doing his idea of "honourable execution" for another noble, to even go as far as to use his released Zanpakutou.

Yet, Byakuya hasn't shown that level of respect for other nobles, namely Yoruichi, so why do it for Ganju, obviously because Kaien was roughly his age, maybe they knew each other and it's because of that. But also, it might have been because it's similar to Ichigo's fight with Ikkaku, Ikkaku goes all-out when he finds out Urahara trained Ichigo, maybe it's the same thing here for a member of the Shiba clan's main family, whom he assumes, are powerful like himself. Isshin is an ex-Captain, I think it can be construed that there is a link there.

I know when Ukitake first saw Ichigo, straight away he thought of Kaien and Byakuya gave his whole "No relation, at least not to the man you just thought of" would indicate he knows Ichigo is Isshin's son, but that Isshin himself is not part of the Shiba clan, but to be honest, he doesn't actually outright state who he thinks Ichigo is related to.

Added to that, nobody is Soul Society recognises Ichigo or his last name, and he drops it quite a few times. Jidanbou should be one of the most obvious characters to recognise it, as he's been a Shinigami for over 300 years at this point, so if someone dropped the name of a Captain down in front of him, you'd think he'd say something. So obviously that means that Kurosaki is not the name Isshin went by in Soul Society, so that leaves us with the final point, what was his name when he was a Captain ?

Mostly the evidence is circumstantial I'll openly admit it, but I think when you take it all together, add the physical and temperamental characteristics of the Kurosaki's and the Shiba's and how similar they are to one another, well it just sort of fits.

My own theory is that Isshin is the ex-head of the Shiba Clan, meaning he is also the father to Ganju, Kuukaku and Kaien along with Ichigo, Karin and Yuzu. At some point, he left/was exiled from Soul Society which in turn brought down the Shiba clan due to the disgrace, Kaien was trying to repair that damage when he was killed in the line of duty, leading to the position the Shiba were in up until now. Yes, it's a particularly "fan-ish" theory, I'll admit, more so because of the whole Isshin is the father of two families, but, well, I think it's certainly possible.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

You certainly make some good points. The more I kept reading, the more I believed it. Maybe it's because everything ties together so nicely that makes us question it slightly, but it sure sounds believable to me.

It could be the case that the reason Isshin waited 80 or so years to start a family after fleeing Soul Society was because he'd left a family behind. It would take a man a while to be willing to move on, knowing that he had another family out there, thinking about him. And even if he's simply a member of the clan and not Ganju and them's father, it would take longer to 'settle in' to his new life if he'd left a number of close relatives behind, especially exuberant ones like Ganju and Kuukaku.

I'd also thought about the whole "Kurosaki" business. Even if it was simply a fairly common name, surely [I]someone[/I] within the Seireitei would have found Ichigo suspicous if Isshin had gone by that name before. It hasn't been all that long that he's been gone. Quite a few of those officers would have known him, despite all the upheaval within the Shinigami ranks. I can't recall, but has Tite ever let on as to whether 'Isshin' was even his real first name? Changing both could be expected.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']I'd also thought about the whole "Kurosaki" business. Even if it was simply a fairly common name, surely [I]someone[/I] within the Seireitei would have found Ichigo suspicous if Isshin had gone by that name before. It hasn't been all that long that he's been gone. Quite a few of those officers would have known him, despite all the upheaval within the Shinigami ranks. I can't recall, but has Tite ever let on as to whether 'Isshin' was even his real first name? Changing both could be expected.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, that occurred to me as well, but Urahara actually refers to him as Isshin-san, which would seem to indicate at least he hasn't changed his first name. Of course, maybe he has and Urahara has just adapted to referring to him by it.

I was just thinking a little more on what might've driven Isshin to leave/be exiled from Soul Society. I mean, he's the only captain we know was exiled who seems to have had nothing to do with the Vizard affair, at least, at first glance. So that's one of the other things I'm really curious about too.

Either way, hopefully with this new flashback set of stories, we'll get to see Isshin-taicho.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]So lets see.

Yoruichi use to be the captain of the 2nd division. Understandable once I actually saw her in the shinigami getup in the flashback in the anime. Before I saw that, I used to think that she wasn't even a shinigami because the manga didn't show much in the Soi Fon flashback. And, well, once I heard that she's the commander of an assassination group (or something like that), I ruled out shinigami and thought ninja lol.

Now I'm curious about the other old guy that was standing next to Shunsui.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Yeah, I have to admit, when I saw the spoiler pic of Yoruichi in her captain's haori, I thought it was another April Fool's prank. Still, looking back on it, I suppose it was pretty obvious that she was the ex-2nd Division Captain, given that Soifon stepped directly into her shoes after she left Soul Society, which seems to have included her position as the 2nd's captain.

Interesting though that Urahara turned out to be ex-2nd Division too, I had him pegged for 12th Division all the way along, explains really why he's such an accomplished one-on-one fighter though. That and that he apparently leap-frogged Soifon to a Captain's position, though we know he achieved Bankai using forced materialisation.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Now I'm curious about the other old guy that was standing next to Shunsui.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]6th Division's captain, most of the fan theories have him pegged as Byakuya's father, seeing as the old man is wearing the scarf Byakuya himself wears, which as I recall is said to be handed down from leader to leader of the Kuchiki clan.

Also, based on that array of captains, we can tell Kensei is the ex-9th Division captain, as he was after Love but before Ukitake and 11th Divison's captain was missing.[/SIZE]