Manga Bleach Manga [Warning: Spoilers]

[Magus]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE=1]Bah, your continued heresy is regrettable but if I went and purged you then I'd have nobody to discuss Bleach or Naruto with so I'm just going to have to fill every post from now on with a subtle loathing of the very fibre of your being.

Personally I've always liked Rukia, she's got a fire to her while at the same time being reasonably grown up in a shounen manga. Now if they didn't keep bringing up the creepy Chappy fascination that'd be nice.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=darkred]LOL!!! How about this? Unless someone bring Toushiro up (or he does something in upcoming chapters) we won't speak about him? (One thing I won't do is brag about him like so many other people do, and besides, he hasn't reached Byakuya or Ulquiorra's status to be bragged about)

Rukia, I don't know, I think it was the anime that ruined her for me (dub). 1st episode she just sounded like an idiot for some reason. (Maybe it was her voice actor... I can't explain it) And ever since then I couldn't get into her character.[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Magus'][SIZE=1][COLOR=darkred]LOL!!! How about this? Unless someone bring Toushiro up (or he does something in upcoming chapters) we won't speak about him? (One thing I won't do is brag about him like so many other people do, and besides, he hasn't reached Byakuya or Ulquiorra's status to be bragged about)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]We have ourselves an agreement then. :P [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE][quote name='Magus'][SIZE=1][COLOR=darkred]Rukia, I don't know, I think it was the anime that ruined her for me (dub). 1st episode she just sounded like an idiot for some reason. (Maybe it was her voice actor... I can't explain it) And ever since then I couldn't get into her character.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Yeah, took one listen to the dub and pretty much gave up on it altogether in favour of subs. Just didn't like the way any of the characters, with I think the exception of Byakuya sounded though it's been over 2 years since I saw it so I'm a tad sketchy.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]After rereading the chapter again, something hit me. I'm not a fan of Hinamori at all (heck I was glad that it happened.. "coughs"), but why didn't Ichigo speak up beforehand? Looking back over chapters 391-392, if kyoka suigetsu was already released and Ichigo is just sitting there watching everyone fight Hinamori then he's just as guilty of being an idiot.[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Ah but what makes you think he wasn't ? Remember Kyouka controls all five senses of those under its power so it's entirely possible that Ichigo was roaring his lungs out trying to alert them, Aizen just didn't let them hear him until he wanted them to. After all they were thrown off by Ichigo's shouting just as much as by the revelation of it being Hinamori.

I was also just thinking, how many combat capable captains are there actually left ? Kyouraku, Koma, Ukitake, Hitsugaya and Soifon are all down, Unohana is busy healing it seems, of the Vizards only Kensei seems left combat fit and he's busy trading blows with Wonderweiss. Dare I say it, Gramps might actually take to the field pretty soon.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]I knew that was gonna be brought up lol. I'll quote myself at another forum about the same thing. (Guy pretty much said the same thing you said)

[quote name='Me']Sorry, I just don't buy that. Going back to chapter 389 (It seemed as if Aizen and Shinji were hinting that Kyoka Suigetsu was not released until that chapter) Komamura and even Soifon said some words to Ichigo. He had all the time in the world to tell them that's not him. And even then, with all them being affected, he could've done the next best thing (although he probably would've came out injured) which was go after the real thing. [/quote]

Yep, Ichigo's officially an idiot. But on the bright side Naruto's a bigger idiot :)[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Magus'][SIZE=1][COLOR=darkred]I knew that was gonna be brought up lol. I'll quote myself at another forum about the same thing. (Guy pretty much said the same thing you said)

Yep, Ichigo's officially an idiot. But on the bright side Naruto's a bigger idiot :)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]True enough, I think he probably released just after the Captains charged and left Ichigo behind (although that brings up the question how he released without withdrawing his sword). It all depends on when the switch was made as well, did Kyouraku hit Aizen or Hinamori ? Did he hit anything at all ? Can't really tell with Captain OP until we're told. If he did indeed release when I speculate he did it ties up why Ichigo knew but wasn't able to shout to the captains Aizen wasn't really there.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]From what I read of the spoilers, yes Ichigo is an idiot. Still staring around and crap.

As for everything else, yay except for Wonderweiss. I just don't find anything appealing about the guy. And then I need answers about Kensei. It's sad that Yama-ji comes finally steps in only to get handed by Wonderweiss. (I've yet to see his release but I imagine being a butterfly is really lame) So much for seeing just how powerful Yama-ji really is. Toushiro loses arm/hand/half of something officially. (There is no clones now, take that :devil:)

Honestly, I just don't see Ichigo beating Aizen in this arc. (While I do see a bailout coming from Urahara and folk, I don't even see them beating Aizen either) In fact I have Aizen actually winning this entire battle and we go into the next arc with the goodies contemplating their next move of going after Aizen. I have Aizen pegged as a pimped out version of Naraku, being the one big baddy everyone gotta take down. There's just no creating a better villain than Aizen in this series, and as sly as Gin looks, I don't even see him being able to double cross Aizen, at least not at this point I don't. (Thought I throw that in there in case people are thinking that Gin maybe betray Aizen to become the bigger baddy)

Edit:

Having officially read the chapter, that wasn't actually bad. I am glad that Yama-ji finally did something. I still don't really care for him at this point though... (release your bankai and I just might have a different opinion)

I guess its official that Yama-ji is stronger than Aizen. Too bad he's not a tactician. (At least from everything I've seen of him so far, he's not)

I've commented on it quite a few times, but I feel I have to say it again. Kubo's artwork is awesome. Honestly, if the anime was done just like the manga (left in black & white, and the same attention to detail) I'd probably respect and enjoy it a lot more because I don't care for the anime that much. [/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I wasn't really blown away by this chapter to be honest, far too much of it came off as being contrived.

If getting one on one with Aizen was Yama-jii's aim the entire time he should have been the first to engage him the moment Fura blew out his fire-prison. Even if his plan worked all Yama would've done at that point was to ensure everyone bar Ichigo and Unohana would be killed along with Yama and Aizen. There was no necessity to it at all.

Wonderweiss I'm particularly disappointed by, aside from his horrific design, because of the inconsistencies. I don't agree with the general consensus that this proves beyond doubt he's not a Vasto Lorde, because sending an Adjuchas-class Arrancar against the Gotei 13 Commander even with the ability to negate his shikai would likely be suicide.

Added to that even though he's been designed (or redesigned) specifically to deal with Yamamoto's abilities, he has apparently defeated Kensei off-screen and as Kensei was already in bankai at the time and still had access to his Vizard powers that at least hints to his potency.

I wouldn't have minded so much of he was outright stated to be a genuine Vasto Lorde, but the whole modded thing makes him seems just contrived.

Why Ichigo didn't rush in to help Kensei is beyond me, if he knew he couldn't take Aizen would he at least make himself of some use, because he isn't affected by Aizen's powers yet and might have a chance at taking Wonderweiss if I'm wrong and he isn't a VL.

Of course it could turn out Yama butchers Wonderweiss in the next chapter with a combination of kidou, swordplay and flash steps but somehow I find that unlikely.

Overall a poor chapter saved only by the fact I love Aizen's speeches, and I got to see Toshiro maimed again.
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[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]Like I said, I don't think the chapter was all that bad, but I do gotta rant here. (Reading it multiple times getcha thinking)

You know times like this I really wish Byakuya were there to make up for the tactical parts that everyone else seems to lack. Honestly, why the heck is Toushiro the only one using Bankai (I can understand Soifon not using it... Aww she cares)? I applaud the teamwork that was involved when taking down Hinamori, but still, it seems like none of the shinigami's can match wits with Aizen except Byakuya since he's the only one that seems to ever use his brain. I'm not saying that Byakuya can beat Aizen, but I do think with his decisiveness, Byakuya could've given everyone a better chance at taking down Aizen.

Seriously, Yama-ji letting the others take on a fully healed Aizen while they're wounded no less. Where/What is the logic/tactics in that? How can the other shingami captains follow someone like him? (They get no choice in the matter of being a sacrifice or not either....) But then again, (and I'm pretty sure we talked about it before) they are just as demented as him so I guess that answers that question.

In a sense I have Aizen pegged as an anti-hero than being a clear cut villain simply because Soul Society seems to do more sadistic stuff. (I'm looking at Mayuri and Kenpachi)[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Magus'][SIZE=1][COLOR=darkred]In a sense I have Aizen pegged as an anti-hero than being a clear cut villain simply because Soul Society seems to do more sadistic stuff. (I'm looking at Mayuri and Kenpachi)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]I don't know, Aizen killing his own apparently loyal underlings kinda pushes him out of hero territory. After all while Soul Society has Ken and Mayuri, Aizen had Nnoitra and Szayelaporro who were pretty much identical if not worse, although to be fair topping Mayuri is pretty damn hard.

Personally I'm actually expecting Urahara, Tessai, Isshin and Ryuken to make their appearance in the next while. Urahara has been the only one able to match wits with Aizen on an almost level playing field and I've always figured Isshin is former Royal Guard so it should make for an interesting match-up.
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[jonesy]

I agree with a lot of what you said Gavin, that this last chapter came across as being contrived. As for the lack of tactics, I would imagine that at some point Yama-ji had a brain when it came to tactics but since he's so powerful he just brute-forces everything and doesn't need to worry about tactics, until maybe now.

I really don't know where Kubo is going with the story. It doesn't seem Aizen can lose this battle without a lot of things going right for Ichigo and company which seems rather unlikely at this point. Aizen winning the battle seems more likely but how are all the wounded going to escape? I don't see Aizen just letting them get away to regroup/recover. Who knows.

[Gavin]

[quote name='jonesy']I agree with a lot of what you said Gavin, that this last chapter came across as being contrived. As for the lack of tactics, I would imagine that at some point Yama-ji had a brain when it came to tactics but since he's so powerful he just brute-forces everything and doesn't need to worry about tactics, until maybe now.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]That actually seems to have been the crux of Aizen's argument to Yama in the chapter, his lack of tactical acumen is down to the fact his wtfpwn zanpakutou generally allows him to one-shot enemies regardless of distance or strength. Even though he's more powerful than Aizen when main offensive power is taken away, Yama becomes vulnerable because he's become over-reliant on it.
[/SIZE]

[Raiyuu]

After the Hinamori-stabbing incident, there was a lot of debate over exactly when Aizen released his shikai. I may be way behind on the speculation here, but I just remembered this:

[url]http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/376/03/[/url]
[url]http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/376/04/[/url]

So Kyouka Suigetsu's effect has been active [B]at least[/B] since Aizen got bored and took out Harribel.

[Magus]

[quote name='Raiyuu']After the Hinamori-stabbing incident, there was a lot of debate over exactly when Aizen released his shikai. I may be way behind on the speculation here, but I just remembered this:

[url]http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/376/03/[/url]
[url]http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/376/04/[/url]

So Kyouka Suigetsu's effect has been active [B]at least[/B] since Aizen got bored and took out Harribel.[/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=darkred]You, sir, are a friggin genius. I completely forgot about that.[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Based on the current chapter raw, it's pretty damn clear that Yama actually uses his zanpakutou to make fights even for his opponents, seeing as he can punch holes in Espada class Arrancar.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=darkred]I thought I would like this chapter more now that Yamamoto is actually doing something, but I just thought it was okay. Maybe because of the whole nulification thing. I want to see him use everything he's got. Not to take anything away from Aizen's thinking and whatnot. I favor people that're tactical during fights. But for this fight it's like Kubo is just teasing me because he knows that I want to see bankai along with other abilities.

But yeah, take away ones abilities it's like the fight becomes a lot more boring. The last thing I want to see in Bleach is a fistfight while everyone else is using weapons...
[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I do agree Magus that a bit of a mix up of abilities would've been nice in this chapter but I get the feeling Yamamoto vs Wonderweiss is going to be dragged out to three or four chapters before the end during which we'll get a bit more info on both characters.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=navy][quote=ShadowGun @ Toonzone][spoiler]- WW has been defeated.
- Aizen smiles and ask Yamamoto "where do you think your fire went to?"
- Yama looks at WW body and it begin to explode.
- Yama throws himself at WW body and minimize the explosion.
- Aizen thanks Yamamoto for protecting his world. A dying Yama grab him by the foot and uses Hado #96, which appears to be a fire sword.
- Aizen escapes only to be attack by Vizard Ichigo. Chapter ends.[/spoiler][/quote]

Oh thanks Ichigo... :rolleyes: You really are an idiot.
[spoiler]What the crap.... Yama, the top dog sacrifices himself. (Before revealing his bankai)[/spoiler] I feel like Kubo put so much hype around him only to be ousted like the top 3 espadas...

I mean this guy is suppose to be the strongest of the strong. All he's done was wait on the side to prepare a suicide attack, take out WW and Allon. I'm sorry, that's not worth the hype you're given. Pisses me off.

1st Naruto made me quit that series, and Bleach is heading in that direction. I think I deserve to see Isshin, Urahara, Gin and Aizen's bankai now. I swear, "bankai" is the only thing keeping this series alive now.[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I know Aizen is supposed to be the almighty chessmaster of this series but I'm really becoming annoyed at his "You've activated my trap card" style of fighting. I mean how often could Yama have possibly had to fight while Aizen was pretending to be a good guy ? And yet we're getting counters ridiculous counters to every one of his moves.

I don't think the old man is dead yet, as Bleach goes no flashback means no death. I do agree Ichigo's intervention at this point is pretty pointless, he knows he's outclassed so unless there's another asspull power-up for him or daddy steps in to take over the fight I see it being a short mind**** followed by a swift slash to the midsection again.[/SIZE]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=green] I take it back. That certainly look like a pretty nice opportunity Ichigo has. "Waits for him to blow it by yelling or saying something stupid in the next chapter".

[spoiler]Aizen got blood on his face O_O!!!!![/spoiler]

Yeah, Yama using one of them level 96 spells for a last desperate attack but couldn't use one to block that explosion really makes little to no sense to me.

And finally, I've never been behind the idea of Gin turning on Aizen, but with him sitting on the sidelines like he's been doing and [spoiler]Aizen actually having a wound on his face[/spoiler] certainly has it turning out that way.
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[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]While I still don't like the way Aizen was able to negate Ryuujin Jakka which even worse apparently went to the extent Yamamoto can't ever activate it again I did enjoy the chapter a bit more than I originally expected I would. While Kubo mightn't be the best writer his battle scenes are always a treat.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Like I said before even after all that Yama has gone through I still don't think he's dead, Aizen seemed to believe he'd have to kill him with his own sword, and seeing as that didn't happen I'm betting the old man is just pretty badly hurt.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]Ichigo does indeed come off better, Aizen is definitely injured after taking that kidou dead-on and while I don't expect this to be the final blow I think he could certainly do damage. [/SIZE]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Before anyone says anything, yes I know double-posting is against the rules. However I believe the evidence I have acquired is of such significance it requires its own individual post.

So far in Bleach we've marvelled and cursed Aizen's brilliance in roughly equal measures, but there can be no denial of the sheer mastery of his mind-screwing, chess-mastery and Xanatos Gambetry. What we have lacked is a real, tangible source for exactly why Aizen is this good, well, I think I've found it, and it'll shatter your very perceptions.

[/SIZE][center][SIZE=1][IMG]http://zeitgeistglee.250free.com/BatmanAizen.jpg[/IMG][/SIZE]
[/center]
[SIZE=1]Yes, Aizen is in fact the dead version of Batman, Soul Society never had any hope of winning.[/SIZE]

[M.Ali]

[quote name='Gavin']Yes, Aizen is in fact the dead version of Batman, Soul Society never had any hope of winning.[/quote]


[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]It all makes sense now....[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Magus]

[size=1][color=green]That's just BS now. He's both Batman and Superman....

New spoilers... I think we get answers about Ichigo's progression. I was in a rush so I didn't get the chance to fully read them.

Edit:

396 spoilers
[spoiler]\爺さんが自己犠牲の様な技　一刀かそう？
It seems Yama sacrificed himself with his attack. (Single Stroke Cremation)
腕一本クロ焦げになりながら撃ったような事を愛染さんがかんがえて
Aizen contemplates the attack as one of his arms is charred.
いた所にイチゴの一撃が決まるが宝玉を身体に埋め込んだ
Ichigo's attack connects, but Aizen has embedded the hyougoku in himself
愛染さんには一切きかない
and is completely unaffected.

今までイチゴが戦闘してきた事を話はじめ
He begins to talk about Ichigo's battles up till now.
例　GJとの戦闘で仮面をマスターし　４との戦闘で新しい力も目覚めたようだね
The fight against GJ where he mastered his mask, and against Ulq where new powers we awakened.
黒崎苺～君は私の手のひらの上で踊らされていた事に～
Kurosaki Ichigo-kun, I've been manipulating you in the palm of my hand.
ってな所で完です
The end.[/spoiler][/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Magus'][SIZE=1][COLOR=green]That's just BS now. He's both Batman and Superman....

New spoilers... I think we get answers about Ichigo's progression. I was in a rush so I didn't get the chance to fully read them.

Edit:

396 spoilers
[spoiler]\爺さんが自己犠牲の様な技　一刀かそう？
It seems Yama sacrificed himself with his attack. (Single Stroke Cremation)
腕一本クロ焦げになりながら撃ったような事を愛染さんがかんがえて
Aizen contemplates the attack as one of his arms is charred.
いた所にイチゴの一撃が決まるが宝玉を身体に埋め込んだ
Ichigo's attack connects, but Aizen has embedded the hyougoku in himself
愛染さんには一切きかない
and is completely unaffected.

今までイチゴが戦闘してきた事を話はじめ
He begins to talk about Ichigo's battles up till now.
例　GJとの戦闘で仮面をマスターし　４との戦闘で新しい力も目覚めたようだね
The fight against GJ where he mastered his mask, and against Ulq where new powers we awakened.
黒崎苺～君は私の手のひらの上で踊らされていた事に～
Kurosaki Ichigo-kun, I've been manipulating you in the palm of my hand.
ってな所で完です
The end.[/spoiler][/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Yup, like I said, SS never had any real chance against him.

Regarding the spoilers, I'm somewhat sorry Yama-jii's death has been confirmed but when I was looking back on the chapter yesterday I realised his beard had been mostly burned off taking that hit, and that must've been pretty fatal to him to loose his beard.

I'm somewhat curious how the hyougoku can now block attacks, given that's a power it never demonstrated before and makes little sense given Soul Society's original idea was to burn it out of Rukia with the soukyoku.

As for Aizen's most recent mindscrew with Ichigo, it too calls into question exactly how Aizen even knows about his fight with Ulquiorra given he was in FKT at that time.

Heh early spoilers always raise as many questions as they answer it seems.[/SIZE]