chibi-master Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Personally, I'm really tired of so much Sasuke. And I'm really hurt that Tobi, our sweet, naive Tobi, is actually that scumbag, Madara.:animeangr I want to see what's going on with Naruto or Team Hebi vs. Kisame...:animecry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote name='chibi-master']Personally, I'm really tired of so much Sasuke. And I'm really hurt that Tobi, our sweet, naive Tobi, is actually that scumbag, Madara.:animeangr I want to see what's going on with Naruto or Team Hebi vs. Kisame...:animecry:[/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]What do you mean there chibi ? Aside from the fact Sasuke just happens to be the person Madara is talking to, he's not really had that much focus lately, thankfully. You know, it's funny, when we found out this year was going to be dedicated to Sasuke mostly, there was pretty much outright lamentation, then he was humbled by Itachi and we hoped for some decent self-reflection and development, then he got Mangekyou and we were back to stage one again. But really, we're nearly half way through the year now, and Sasuke hasn't been as prominent as expected. Plus, Kishi said he'd focus on Kakashi, and for some pointless reason Sakura, so he can't get all the page time.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalGuru Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 So none of ya have read this weeks edition of Naruto. BOY, this is quite possibly the most interesting one yet. Its like the ENTIRE story of Naruto has just changed within a matter of pages. So Itachi was a Konoha spy ordered to kill the entire Uchiha clan. And basically, Sasuke knows that Konoha was the true enemy and not his brother. I'm tellin ya, I have a feeling that Sasuke is gonna end up joining the Akatsuki and then we're gonna see the true final battle. Sasuke Vs Naruto to see who truly is better. Konoha or the Uchiha's. Things are about to get veeeeery interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [SIZE="1"]Well now, despite reading the spoiler translations earlier in the week, I have to admit, this certainly was an interesting chapter. The background info on the Senju, the Uchiha and Konoha was certainly welcome, although it does present the question as to where exactly the Senju have all gone, that is to say, if the Senju clan were an actual blood clan and not just a few different groups with the same allegiance, in which case the Senju would likely be all the other clans of Konoha, with the exception of the Hyuuga. While I don't agree with Guru when he says that Itachi murdered the Uchiha on Konoha's orders, even if this could more specifically refer to Danzou as I'm pretty sure at this point that Itachi was Root as opposed to Hokage ANBU. Itachi confirmed that Madara was with him when he killed off the rest of the clan, or at least was present at the time. More likely, I think Itachi actually eliminated/identified members of the coup who were then eliminated by Konoha, but that nobody within the Uchiha realised what he was doing until it was too late. Actually thinking on it Shisui may have been one particular member of the coup he had to eliminate, and the fight earned him his Mangekyou, but that itself set off the Uchiha as to what he was doing. It's weird, but even despite the likelihood of Madara being a complete liar, I can't help but feel he is actually telling the whole truth about what happened.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [color=darkblue][size=1]That seems to be the way it's shaping up: Uchiha vs. Senju - Round 3 (Round 2 took place before the time skip, lol). But this does turn things on their head a bit. I mean, now that it's fully been explained (unless Madara has epic Bluff, which in all likelyhood he does) that the Uchiha were actually planning a full overthrow of Konoha, the reason for their extermination seems a bit more clear. If that's true and if it's true that Itachi was forced to betray his clan on orders, it also explains him a little better. I mean, in all likelyhood, Itachi lied to Sasuke in order to protect him from the truth of what his clan was really planning. Even though it resulted in lots of turmoil and misdirected hatred, Itachi likely thought it would be better for Sasuke to direct his hatred toward him instead of the village so he wouldn't really get hurt. (After all, Sasuke is gifted, but not as gifted as Itachi in ninjitsu—Itachi might have thought he'd always have the upper hand on him.) So, yes. I would say that this an interesting chapter, even though Sasuke being constantly being hit with Mindblow no Jutsu is going to have some sort of negative effect in the long run. Guru might be right when he said Sasuke might be taking his brother's place with Akatsuki. EDIT:[/color][/size] [quote name='Gavin']More likely, I think Itachi actually eliminated/identified members of the coup who were then eliminated by Konoha, but that nobody within the Uchiha realised what he was doing until it was too late.[/quote] [color=darkblue][size=1]That may be, but that would mean that Madara killed off all the other members of the Uchiha. Itachi probably didn't take to that kindly and might have tried to fight Madara off, though he didn't seem too worse for wear during the flashbacks we've seen of the night of the massacre. Either that, or the Uchiha did get hip to what Itachi was doing and attacked him, but he beat them off in self-defense. Still, in the long run, whatever way you look at it, the Uchiha are responsible for their own downfall. It is true that what the Senju did to them was pretty crappy, but it's what happens when clans like the Uchiha spring up: they were too much of a wildcard so the Senju stacked the deck in their favour. Traditional power politics.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibi-master Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"] It's weird, but even despite the likelihood of Madara being a complete liar, I can't help but feel he is actually telling the whole truth about what happened.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Same here, Gavin. But now I'm starting to confuse myself...I keep wondering, "Why would I tachi agree to spy on his own clan, even if he [I]is[/I] a loyal anbu?!" But then I start to think, "Well he was twisted enough to murder his clan with Madara's help..." So I'm still confused...:animestun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Guru might be right when he said Sasuke might be taking his brother's place with Akatsuki.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Despite the hints that have been coming up about it, I actually can't see this happening, at least unless Akatsuki's goals are once again changed to suit something that might convince Sasuke to join them. I suppose seeing as he's back to blank slate goal-wise himself, there's a possibility with enough coaxing from Madara it may occur, but, I don't know, maybe it's just too many bad fanfics involving that theory has put me off it.[/SIZE] [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]That may be, but that would mean that Madara killed off all the other members of the Uchiha. Itachi probably didn't take to that kindly and might have tried to fight Madara off, though he didn't seem too worse for wear during the flashbacks we've seen of the night of the massacre. Either that, or the Uchiha did get hip to what Itachi was doing and attacked him, but he beat them off in self-defense. Still, in the long run, whatever way you look at it, the Uchiha are responsible for their own downfall. It is true that what the Senju did to them was pretty crappy, but it's what happens when clans like the Uchiha spring up: they were too much of a wildcard so the Senju stacked the deck in their favour. Traditional power politics.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]I suppose either is possible, at this point, we just don't have enough information about what happened to make anything other than vague estimates. I just can't see the Uchiha massacre being sanctioned by Konoha, that is to say, I can't see the Council and Danzou going behind Sarutobi's back to do something as huge as that. [/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]I suppose either is possible, at this point, we just don't have enough information about what happened to make anything other than vague estimates. I just can't see the Uchiha massacre being sanctioned by Konoha, that is to say, I can't see the Council and Danzou going behind Sarutobi's back to do something as huge as that. [/SIZE][/QUOTE] [color=darkblue][size=1]Why not? Danzou put out a hit on Sasuke presumably without Tsunade's knowledge. Tsunade would probably have tried to stop him if she'd known, what with he allowing Naruto to go out and attempt to find him on his own (I can't remember if she actually made it an official mission or not at the moment). Besides, all of them knew full well what happened with the Uchiha in the past, but it said in the chapter that Sarutobi was the only one that actually stood up for the Uchiha. Though he was Hokage at the time, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have gone behind his back and set up something that elaborate. They're shinobi too, after all.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedChick Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Well, 399 was interesting, to say the least. It gets less and less likely that Madara is lying, if for no other reason than Kishi can't afford to waste so much time just to throw us off. The glimpses of Konoha's inner struggles are intriguing. What's the deal with the kyuubi and Madara on page 11? How would he utilize the kyuubi in combat? What kind of dangerous ******** was he pulling? They're saying he used the kyuubi in his fight against the First, thus forming the Valley of the End, and then after an undefined period, the kyuubi felt like popping out of wherever Madara had left him and had a heyday in Konoha? Where was he being contained? How would an Uchiha "summon" him? And why would that sealing or whatever fail? I.am.confused. Does.not.compute. Someone more coherent than I please enlighten me. Also, even if the Uchiha were planning a coup, why kill the non-ninja members of the clan? What harm were they? I'm irritated. I need Kishimoto to explain his confusing self, but at the same time, I want the story as a whole to push forward. We can't so much get both. Unless after this little "chat" Sasuke joins Madara's cause and goes on an all out offensive against Konoha. Too many innocents involved, but who cares, right? Akatsuki's already killed plenty of them. What's several thousand more? Burn 'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Despite the hints that have been coming up about it, I actually can't see this happening, at least unless Akatsuki's goals are once again changed to suit something that might convince Sasuke to join them. [/SIZE][/QUOTE] [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Eh, I don't know, when I really think about it, it doesn't really seem to far-fetched. I mean, especially after this little talk with Madara, Sasuke is gonna be pretty screwed up, mentally. And it would kind of explain where Madara is probably going with this whole conversation. The way I see it, Madara will most likely ask Sasuke to take his brother's place in Akatsuki, then when that's done, he'll have yet another conversation with him about what Akatsuki's [I]true[/I] goal is. Lulz.[/FONT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Why not? Danzou put out a hit on Sasuke presumably without Tsunade's knowledge. Tsunade would probably have tried to stop him if she'd known, what with he allowing Naruto to go out and attempt to find him on his own (I can't remember if she actually made it an official mission or not at the moment). Besides, all of them knew full well what happened with the Uchiha in the past, but it said in the chapter that Sarutobi was the only one that actually stood up for the Uchiha. Though he was Hokage at the time, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have gone behind his back and set up something that elaborate. They're shinobi too, after all.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]There's a huge different Kei between Danzou eliminating one preson behind the Hokage's back, and ordering the elimination of an entire clan. Yes, if Danzou was aware of the Uchiha's planned coup, then perhaps he might have done so, hell he probably would have done so on mere suspicion of it ocurring, but I personally just don't think it's realistic. I think if Danzou did it, he wouldn't be around today, as Sarutobi didn't strike me as someone who would take kindly to a person eliminating a good portion of his "family" which is how he regarded the entirity of Konoha, including the Uchiha. Look how he reacted to Orochimaru and his experiments, it was purely because Orochimaru was his "treasured student" that allowed him to survive being caught by Sarutobi. Danzou doesn't appear to have been nearly as close to the old man. Maybe I'm wrong though, this is just my take on it. Next week's chapter will probably clear up the situation a whole lot more.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibi-master Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote name='Andy'][FONT="Book Antiqua"]I mean, especially after this little talk with Madara, Sasuke is gonna be pretty screwed up, mentally.[/FONT][/QUOTE] Isn't he mentally screwed up already? (C'mon, we all wanted to say it.:p) I mean, his brother killed off the Uchiha clan. And only until recently did we learn that Madara helped him. So the whole "MUST KILL BROTHER!!!" thing was messing up his head while there was a second Uchiha killer that he didn't know about. Anyway, I believe that the best edit that I can offer your quote is this: "After this little talk with Madara, Sasuke is going to be even more mentally screwed up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James P. Galvatron Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I am quite tired of Sasuke really and I can't for the final showdown between him and Naruto. I also wonder what will happen when Naruto and Co. find out about this Konoha assigned assassination of the Uchiha clan. I just can't believe that Itachi is gone whats Sasuke gonna do know his whole freakin life was to kill his brother did he actually have a backup plan for if he actually committed the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 [SIZE="1"]Great chapter. I have to say, it all fits well with what was previously established about Itachi, far more so that his really OOC moments from his final fight with Sasuke. I'm wondering now though, exactly what Madara's plans are for his last remaining descendant, particularly because Itachi wanted to protect Sasuke so desperately from him. Perhaps it has more to do with what Madara did to Itachi after he joined Akatsuki than before. I have to admit, I'm still a little surprised the Elders ordered the execution of the Uchiha clan, and even a little more so that Fugaku was the leader of the whole thing, although now he's telling Sasuke to stop looking to his brother for example makes sense in a very different way.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibi-master Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 This confused the crap outta me...is Itachi good or bad? I mean, Madara could be lying...then again, why would he be? AAAAARG!!!:animestun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 [color=darkblue][size=1]Well, I was happy to see that I wasn't too far off the mark with my initial hypothesis in regards to what actually went down (though what I said in the edit was completely off, lol). I must say that I'm glad that the image that has been built up over the years of Itachi has been shattered somewhat. I mean, I liked him before as a villian, but he's always been the type that seems better as a hero sort. In a way, this new revelation makes him exactly that (though in a very beat-around-the-bush way). Though I'm sure there are a lot of fanpeople that have gone completely nuts over this in a negative way. In my view, it just adds that much more depth to his character. *shrug* Anyway, Sasuke has already shown the signs of complete mental collapse, so all we have to do now is wait and see how many more chapters he lasts. Though, like Gavin, I am interested in seeing what Madara's plans are for him.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibi-master Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Anyway, Sasuke has already shown the signs of complete mental collapse, so all we have to do now is wait and see how many more chapters he lasts.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] I bet three at the least and five at the most.:animesigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 [COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]Poor Sasuke. Thinking he beat his brother fair and square, only to find out he won on a technicality. Itachi > Sasuke even with a disease. :) Hm. I guess my question at this point is, where does Tobi/Madari loyalty lies? With Akatsuki or being a dark horse? I wonder if he's the only one that knew Itachi was a spy in Akatsuki. Interesting stuff.[/SIZE][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Well, I was happy to see that I wasn't too far off the mark with my initial hypothesis in regards to what actually went down (though what I said in the edit was completely off, lol). I must say that I'm glad that the image that has been built up over the years of Itachi has been shattered somewhat. I mean, I liked him before as a villian, but he's always been the type that seems better as a hero sort. In a way, this new revelation makes him exactly that (though in a very beat-around-the-bush way). Though I'm sure there are a lot of fanpeople that have gone completely nuts over this in a negative way. In my view, it just adds that much more depth to his character. *shrug* Anyway, Sasuke has already shown the signs of complete mental collapse, so all we have to do now is wait and see how many more chapters he lasts. Though, like Gavin, I am interested in seeing what Madara's plans are for him.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Couldn't agree more, Itachi was the one villain who I always thought would have made an awesome good guy, and I'm really pleased that he has turned out to be one. Perhaps the one thing about Naruto as a series that maybe I didn't like was it's overly clear-cut good/bad divide among the characters,with Itachi, thankfully that's been scraped. Anyone else think that Itachi's jounin instructor may have been Sandaime ? Seeing as Minato was Yondaime at that stage, and Itachi had apparently inherited the same love for the village that Sarutobi expressed. Probably unlikely, but it would be cool.[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 [color=darkblue][size=1]It would be really cool. It seems like Sarutobi was one of the most influential Hokages that Konoha has ever had: everything ties back to him in some way or another (usually for the positive). I think it would add another dimension to both his and Itachi's characters if that were it. In regards to this chapter... I'll be honest. I cried. I don't know if it was the fact that I was so happy that Itachi turned out to be such a bitching big brother or I was channeling Gai and Lee with their "THE LOVE BETWEEN BROTHERS" or student and teachers or whatever so happens to move them, but the way Madara described Itachi just got me all goopy on the inside. He was a hell of a guy and I'll miss him. But, it seems that Sasuke is out on his own now (and bearing the clan symbol). Seems like we're finally going to get to see what he decides to do. But really, I'm starting to wonder what's happened to the rest of Team Hebi at this point, not to mention how the S.S.R.S. (Sasuke Search and Rescue Squad), as I have dubbed Naruto & Co. is doing. I suppose Kishi will tell us when we need to know.[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]It would be really cool. It seems like Sarutobi was one of the most influential Hokages that Konoha has ever had: everything ties back to him in some way or another (usually for the positive). I think it would add another dimension to both his and Itachi's characters if that were it.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Indeed, it occurs to me that if the Uchiha had remained loyal to Konoha, Itachi probably would have been the one to replace Minato as Hokage when he chose to step down. Oh well, simply one more awesome hero who should have gotten/taken the job instead of Tsunade, the other being Jiraiya of course. That said, the one thing I'm still bothered about was Itachi's killing of individuals among the Uchiha who posed no threat to him, i.e. his mother, his aunt and uncle. Although perhaps it was Madara who killed them.[/SIZE] [quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]But, it seems that Sasuke is out on his own now (and bearing the clan symbol). Seems like we're finally going to get to see what he decides to do. But really, I'm starting to wonder what's happened to the rest of Team Hebi at this point, not to mention how the S.S.R.S. (Sasuke Search and Rescue Squad), as I have dubbed Naruto & Co. is doing. I suppose Kishi will tell us when we need to know.[/color][/size][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Indeed, I'm rather interested to see where Sasuke will go with his life, now that he knows the whole truth about his brother, and his clan, that is assuming Madara has been telling him the whole truth. Given the second "humbling" he's taken in such a short space of time, the first being his defeat from Itachi in battle, and now having his illusions of reality stripped away from him, hopefully Kishi might actually make a likable character out of Sasuke, worthy of all the sacrifices everyone else have made for him. As for Hebi and SSRS, well I never much cared for Hebi, so Kisame can make fish food out of them if he likes, and as for Naruto and co, well Naruto clearly needs to get his backside back for more training, and using those kage bunshins in a more intelligent manner, and for God's sake, get a better outfit. [/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibi-master Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I read ch. 401...*sob* I am so [I]sick[/I] of looking at nothing but Sasuke's mug and hearing nothing short of a kid telling a younger kid that the toothfairy doesn't exist! With all the, "You lie!"s and "That's impossible!"s. I wonder if Kishi even remembers about Naruto and the other shinobi and the fight with Kisame and what's his face!:animecry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 [COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]I just got done re-reading the fight between Pain/Pein and Jiraya. And as much as I'd like to see the fight between Kisame and Suigetsu, I think they should take a timeout to go back to Konoha. Pain's secret is the biggest thing on my mind at the moment. Kakashi's thought's about Madara needs to be put on the back burner for the moment.[/SIZE][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 [quote name='Phenom'][COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="1"]I think they should take a timeout to go back to Konoha. Pain's secret is the biggest thing on my mind at the moment.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Agreed, with the last page of last week's manga chapter, I imagine Kishi must be pretty close to wrapping up the Madara/Sasuke segment of the arc, which means we should be back to Konoha soon enough, that is of course unless he wastes more time going through the pointless Hebi/Kisame fight. On a side note, anyone else think what Itachi wanted to protect Sasuke from regarding Madara was the truth about the Uchiha clan ?[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haku877 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 [quote name='Gavin']That said, the one thing I'm still bothered about was Itachi's killing of individuals among the Uchiha who posed no threat to him, i.e. his mother, his aunt and uncle. Although perhaps it was Madara who killed them.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Actually later in the series it explains that itatchi [spoiler] is hired by the hokage to get rid of the Uchiha clan and he is forced to choose his family of village, but he left sasuke alive because it says if you use the mangenkyou sharingan to much you become blind, and if you steal the eyes of another brother of family member they become blind and you have "eternal light" and live forever like, mandra. but mandra is involved because itatchi offers mandra, who was betrayed by the clan at the end of the first ninja war, to help get revenge on the clan and mandra accepts. then later itachi tells the hokage to not tell sasuke [/spoiler] im only like 95 % sure cause i read them like 2 weeks ago, so i might have missed a detail or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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