Manga Naruto Manga [Warning: Spoilers]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Ah, [url=http://sractheninja.deviantart.com/art/Naruto-Sasuke-Fails-At-Pokemon-59684795]here it is[/url].
Poor Sasuke, it's just too easy to mock him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

That is amazing. Though it's pretty obvious Kishimoto has thrown all the laws of nature out the window based on plenty of things besides the "wheel of elementals".

Physics? Who ever heard of that?
Or blunt force trauma? Not in a ninja's world.

[Magus]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]First things first. Did Sasuke stick Itachi in the butt with that last shuriken?

Each time I see Sasuke fight (now), the more impressed I am. While at the same time I'm becoming a little more disappointed in Itachi. Don't get me wrong. I still like Itachi, and I understand very well that he's going blind. But if he's going blind (and being weakened) wouldn't he be better off not using the mangekyo sharingan? Or does Sasuke's eyes surpass Itachi's by a far margin?

I don't know why, perhaps it was the quality of the chapter that I had that was affecting it, but I wasn't all that impressed with amaterasu. It looked like a bunch of scribble instead of black flames.

You know, at first I didn't think this fight was going to be ending here (and I still think that in some ways), mainly because I can see Zetsu bailing Itachi out,and also, seeing how this is a shonen manga, and people like to drag fights out lol. But, yeah, I'm not so sure anymore.

Anyways, good chapter, for me atleast.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[ImmortalGuru]

Yes, todays chapter was BEYOND amazing. Sasuke pretty much proved that he has surpassed Itachi in every shape and form. The only thing Itachi has going for him now is that Mangekyo Sharigan but like we all know, its making him go blind. Or as I can see in this chapter, he's already COMPLETELY blind. His last ditch effort is gonna be that Amaterasu and if that doesnt work in the next chapter, Itachi is gonna be the next in a line of dead Akatsuki.

So I guess now the question is, once Itachi is finished, where does that leave Sasuke? Think they'll have him go back to Konoha to defeat the rest of the Akatsuki? I still think it'd be a wild twist if he ended up joining the Akatsuki after Itachi is dead.

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Well, it seems Zetsu is quite literally split on who he's supporting in this fight now. It's nice to have the dual commentary coming from him/them/whatever. ^_^;

That said, it seems more and more Kishi is telling us Sasuke is going to walk away the winner here. Even with Itachi's using Amaterasu at the end, the very fact his normal Sharingan seems to be less powerful than Sasuke's, and his eye literally bled when he used Amaterasu aren't exactly encouraging signs. Maybe the black flames will do the job, but this looks to be very much a last resort from the elder brother.

Shame really, that Itachi has turned out to be so weak in this fight, after all his established badassness, he'll die half-blind to his "spare".[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

This fight feels wrong to me. It doesn't feel like Kishimoto. Manga, especially shonen manga, is always supporting that if you have a good heart and powerful motivation, you can achieve anything. Naruto himself is the embodiment of that theme. What this fight is showing is that actually, you should be willing to go to [I]any[/I] ends, evil or not, to achieve your goals, since [I]apparently[/I] "going to the darkside" is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Kishimoto doesn't write like that, so what's going on?

Sasuke had been slaving away for twelve years, fueled by his need for revenge, pushing further and further ahead. And yet Itachi had always towered over him, dwarfing his brother in every respect. But now, since joining Orochimaru, [I]the devil himself[/I], Sasuke is essentially *****-slapping him around. This whole situation feels off. [B]Itachi isn't weak.[/B] Going blind or not, exhausted from using mangekyou or not, he's smart enough, insightful enough, to not get stabbed in the leg by a detachable shuriken. So, [I]why[/I] would Kishimoto do this? [B][I]Why??[/I][/B]

If the only way Kishimoto knows how to kill off bad-guys is in sloppy, anti-climactic fights, I will be deeply disappointed. If Orochimaru is [I]truly gone[/I] and Itachi [I]really dies[/I], then this is [I][B]lame[/B][/I]. Building up your antagonists to such a ludicrous level just to give them such weak endings is, no offense, bad writing. It undermines the entire story. All I can hope is that this doesn't end the way it seems it will. To a degree, I will have lost faith in him if it does.


You can tell I am not pleased.

[Kre]

[quote name='TwistedChick']This fight feels wrong to me. It doesn't feel like Kishimoto. Manga, especially shonen manga, is always supporting that if you have a good heart and powerful motivation, you can achieve anything. Naruto himself is the embodiment of that theme. What this fight is showing is that actually, you should be willing to go to [I]any[/I] ends, evil or not, to achieve your goals, since [I]apparently[/I] "going to the darkside" is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Kishimoto doesn't write like that, so what's going on?

Sasuke had been slaving away for twelve years, fueled by his need for revenge, pushing further and further ahead. And yet Itachi had always towered over him, dwarfing his brother in every respect. But now, since joining Orochimaru, [I]the devil himself[/I], Sasuke is essentially *****-slapping him around. This whole situation feels off. [B]Itachi isn't weak.[/B] Going blind or not, exhausted from using mangekyou or not, he's smart enough, insightful enough, to not get stabbed in the leg by a detachable shuriken. So, [I]why[/I] would Kishimoto do this? [B][I]Why??[/I][/B]

If the only way Kishimoto knows how to kill off bad-guys is in sloppy, anti-climactic fights, I will be deeply disappointed. If Orochimaru is [I]truly gone[/I] and Itachi [I]really dies[/I], then this is [I][B]lame[/B][/I]. Building up your antagonists to such a ludicrous level just to give them such weak endings is, no offense, bad writing. It undermines the entire story. All I can hope is that this doesn't end the way it seems it will. To a degree, I will have lost faith in him if it does.


You can tell I am not pleased.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. He's making it seem like Itachi is nothing. So it kinda confuses me. But hey, one can only read onward. But, I was thinking, if Itachi does win and ends up killing Sasuke, it would open up a huuuuuuge thing for the story. I mean think about it, he would have Naruto and Sakura going directly after him. Which would also help Akatsuki in a way. Anyway, just some thoughts >.>

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']This fight feels wrong to me. It doesn't feel like Kishimoto. Manga, especially shonen manga, is always supporting that if you have a good heart and powerful motivation, you can achieve anything. Naruto himself is the embodiment of that theme. What this fight is showing is that actually, you should be willing to go to [I]any[/I] ends, evil or not, to achieve your goals, since [I]apparently[/I] "going to the darkside" is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Kishimoto doesn't write like that, so what's going on?

Sasuke had been slaving away for twelve years, fueled by his need for revenge, pushing further and further ahead. And yet Itachi had always towered over him, dwarfing his brother in every respect. But now, since joining Orochimaru, [I]the devil himself[/I], Sasuke is essentially *****-slapping him around. This whole situation feels off. [B]Itachi isn't weak.[/B] Going blind or not, exhausted from using mangekyou or not, he's smart enough, insightful enough, to not get stabbed in the leg by a detachable shuriken. So, [I]why[/I] would Kishimoto do this? [B][I]Why??[/I][/B]

If the only way Kishimoto knows how to kill off bad-guys is in sloppy, anti-climactic fights, I will be deeply disappointed. If Orochimaru is [I]truly gone[/I] and Itachi [I]really dies[/I], then this is [I][B]lame[/B][/I]. Building up your antagonists to such a ludicrous level just to give them such weak endings is, no offense, bad writing. It undermines the entire story. All I can hope is that this doesn't end the way it seems it will. To a degree, I will have lost faith in him if it does.


You can tell I am not pleased.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]And here I held back my rant on how bad I thought the fight was because I thought you'd disagree with me and we'd end up in a big debate again, heh. ^_^

I actually agree with everything you've said there. I may not be Sasuke's biggest fan, because although I liked the character more than Naruto originally (pre-Shippuden), he's been slowly God-modded to the point where he can take on anyone or anything and come out the winner through a mixture of his own growing strength and his enemies apparently developing a new weakness just before or during the battle, i.e. Oro's weakened state, Deidara's elemental weakness and now Itachi's blindness.

For so long Itachi was the ninja we measured badassness against, in every fight we've seen him involved in, save the potential Jiraiya one, he hasn't even really appeared to exert himself. Now though, he's blind and desperate in a fight he should really have been able to win hands down. It's just not a decent end for a truly epic character.

Hmm, maybe though Kishi is setting a new tone for the characters, after Naruto finds out about Jiraiya, he'll probably find out about his parents too, after that, I imagine Pein and Madara are going to be top of his hit-list, and apparently Kishi shows, avengers get powerful and get the job done by making a deal with the devil. And Naruto has one hell of the devil sealed in his stomach.

That last bit was sarcastic TC, not at you, but at the thought of Naruto becoming an "avenger" like Clucky.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]And here I held back my rant on how bad I thought the fight was because I thought you'd disagree with me and we'd end up in a big debate again, heh. ^_^[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Up until now, I [I]would[/I] have disagreed with you. For the longest time, I've been the person who's always defended Sasuke, the one who would try to ease others worries, assuring them that Sasuke [I]wasn't[/I] as overwhelmingly powerful as they thought. After all, we [I]all know[/I] that Orochimaru isn't so weak as to [I]actually die[/I] when battling his new apprentice. And we [I]all know[/I] that if Sasuke were strong enough to do that, he wouldn't have failed to kill Naruto or even Yamato in their previous encounter. And for God's sake we [I]all know[/I] that facing off against Itachi would be one of the hardest things he would ever do. After all, Itachi's the baddest thing since Madara, right? Defeating him would be near impossible for someone who'd only awakened the sharingan three years ago, right?

No. Apparently not. [I][B]Apparently[/B][/I] even something like overcoming the frickin' mangekyou sharingan doesn't so much as put him out of breath. I knew Kishimoto was jonesing for Sasuke, but this has gone way too far.

One of the few things that could redeem him at this point is to 1) have Orochimaru secretly residing in Sasuke's mind, waiting to seize the opportunity to finally get Itachi's body that he'd been craving for so long and then to achieve that goal, therefore revealing Sasuke to be nowhere near the level everyone seems to assume he is; 2) have Sasuke be overwhelmed by the exertion of going stage two right after forcing his way out of tsukuyomi and drop down several notches in power, even then only [I]slightly[/I] resembling what should have happened; 3) have Itachi turn not-stupid and have evaded the shadow shurikens by leaping [I]to the side[/I] and not [I]between[/I] the wheeling circles of death; 4) have Sasuke drop dead from a heart attack. Now, [I]that[/I] would be a thrilling conclusion. (Wait. Maybe I shouldn't give Kishimoto ideas. After all, even if something seems beyond stupid, he [I]might just do it.[/I]



Grr. Despite everything, I actually [I]do[/I] hold out some hope for this fights conclusion. Though, this scene will either make or break the story in my mind.

As for Kishimoto taking his characters in a new direction, I could see that. By degrading Itachi the way he has, I still think he will have hurt himself in the long-run. Naruto can only be so powerful without completely giving in to the fox. How is he supposed to be able to accomplish anything against someone so seemingly absurd?

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']4) have Sasuke drop dead from a heart attack. Now, [I]that[/I] would be a thrilling conclusion.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]If that could only happen, I think I'd probably die from laughing at the Emo-Sue dying in such a fashion.

Even though I complained about it not two pages back, but I really hope this is just another of Itachi's genjutsu, as unlikely as that is though.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Even though I complained about it not two pages back, but I really hope this is just another of Itachi's genjutsu, as unlikely as that is though.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Something else simply [I]must[/I] be going on. The more I examine it, the more ridiculous the current situation is. I'm with you. Let it be genjutsu, or at least let it all be an act of some kind. Something, [I]anything[/I] other than what seems to be happening.

There have been few times when I've doubted Kishimoto in the slightest. I want to have faith in him now. But, he'd better clear this up soon. I'll be in Japan this September. If things truly are as they seem, God help me if I don't hunt him down and demand a rewrite. Watch out little Japanese man.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']Something else simply [I]must[/I] be going on. The more I examine it, the more ridiculous the current situation is. I'm with you. Let it be genjutsu, or at least let it all be an act of some kind. Something, [I]anything[/I] other than what seems to be happening.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Hopefully Kakashi's constant "look underneath the underneath" is actually apt in this situation.

What seems most off-putting about this is that Itachi was the one to accept the challenge. He even had the chance to see Sasuke's powers without actually endangering himself, and was apparently satisfied with what he saw. I just can't see him picking a fight he doesn't think he can win, it's completely out of character for him, hell this entire fight is out of character for him.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]What seems most off-putting about this is that Itachi was the one to accept the challenge. He even had the chance to see Sasuke's powers without actually endangering himself, and was apparently satisfied with what he saw. I just can't see him picking a fight he doesn't think he can win, it's completely out of character for him, hell this entire fight is out of character for him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

What I think exactly. Itachi has always been very good at reading the situation. He observes his opponent, determines what is needed to defeat them, then engages the enemy. But when he's up against someone he [I]can't[/I] defeat, or even one he thinks could injure him, he's the first one to retreat. Better to live to fight another day than to get in over your head.

Also, didn't Itachi figure out that Kakashi had developed mangekyou without ever seeing it? Kakashi dropped a hint, true, but I believe Itachi was able to sense it also. If he could sniff out Kakashi's sharingan mastery, he should've noticed Sasuke's. Even if he's getting desperate about obtaining new eyes, he wouldn't face Sasuke [I]alone[/I] if there was even the slightest hint that he would fail. Surely even he would be willing to gang up on someone if it meant securing an eternal sharingan for himself.

[Gavin]

[quote name='TwistedChick']Even if he's getting desperate about obtaining new eyes, he wouldn't face Sasuke [I]alone[/I] if there was even the slightest hint that he would fail.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I think that's really the most off-putting thing. Between his raving, his lowered combat skills, and his complete lack of strategy this really doesn't seem like Itachi fighting. God knows what's going on, I just hope next week's chapter clears it up a little.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]God knows what's going on, I just hope next week's chapter clears it up a little.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Amen to that. Kishi does seem to like revealing things sloooowwwwly. Especially in this fight. He has a few more weeks to clarify, but that's all I'm giving him.

[ImmortalGuru]

Man, this weeks issue was enough to piss a man OFF! I was like "Itachi is pretty much gonna kill himself just to take out Sasuke", but now. Sasuke's gonna bust out with a replacement jutsu. But I'll admit, I was on the edge of my seat for a minute. I thought Sasuke was gonna use Orochimaru's powers and switch bodies with Itachi...then I realized that would be pointless since Itachi is fully blind in 1 eye now. But yeah this issue was really good, but man I thought this was gonna be the end of the battle.

I'm not even gonna say next weeks is gonna be the end because it'll probably end up goin on longer than that. But it should be a good one. Definetly ready to see what Sasuke's final attack is gonna be.

[TwistedChick]

Grrrrrr. This is irritating. At least now Sasuke's supposedly "out of chakra" even though he should've [I]died[/I] long ago. I just want to slap him (it's up to you to do decide if I mean Sasuke or Kishi). If someone is really going to die here, [B]do it[/B]. And pulling the whole "I guess I'll have to use [I]that jutsu[/I]" card [I][B]again[/B][/I] is really getting on my nerves. The artwork is pretty good. The content leaves something to be desired.

I repeat, grrrrr.

[Tallgeese-]

If Sasuke kills Itachi = ****ing gay.

Seriously, if Itachi was so much stronger then Orochimaru in the first place, how could Orochimaru train Sasuke to level up to Itachi. Bull crap.

[Kre]

Agreed. In my opinion this whole fight has pretty much been BS. Except for the beginning when Itachi "Ripped out Sasuke's eyes". But as everyone's said, this fight is really out-of character for Itachi. And I was kinda disappointed Sasuke wasn't hit at all by the two Amaterasu's.

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]The only thing worse about the way this fight has gone, is that fact that Itachi believed he was ready to take on Madara once he got the EMS from Sasuke. Which pretty much means that Sasuke is strong enough to fight Madara one-on-one, assuming his "Sasuke's Sharingan > Mangekyou Sharingan" rule still applies. If not, he's going to die slowly and painfully and I'll laugh.

I wonder, could the "Itachi" we've seen all along be one of the body-duplicates from Pein's Jutsu ? It would explain quite a bit, such as Itachi's lowered strength. Regardless though, I hope we get back to the manga's title character soon.[/SIZE]

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]Mmm, in an interview Kishimoto said this year's manga was mostly going to be about Sasuke and Kakashi. Kakashi is fine, but I'd much rather see more of Naruto and Jiraiya (or subsequent lack of) than Sasuke. I just find him a bit... boring. Certainly he seems to be very much of a Deus ex Machina right now.[/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Solo Tremaine'][COLOR=#503F86]Mmm, in an interview Kishimoto said this year's manga was mostly going to be about Sasuke and Kakashi. Kakashi is fine, but I'd much rather see more of Naruto and Jiraiya (or subsequent lack of) than Sasuke. I just find him a bit... boring. Certainly he seems to be very much of a Deus ex Machina right now.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]More Kakashi will be interesting, he's been pretty much sidelined into the mentor role for Naruto, which has opened back up again what with Jiraiya's passing. I wonder if the Tobito theories will turn out to be correct, at least to a degree if it's focusing on Kakashi.

But God, an entire year of Sasuke ? His character has gotten so stale at this point, Kishi really needs to move back to the Leaf-nin and develop them more.[/SIZE]

[Inculta_Bellum]

I want to see the Kisame/Suigetsu fight that should be going on right now. And I hope Kisame kills that graverobber whether we see the fight or not.
Maybe Karin, Jugo, Suigetsu and Sasuke will be recruited into Akatsuki for killing the other two. They obviously need some new members. And since all the Akatsuki members seem to be getting killed off, that would make it more likely that Sasuke would die!
With all the attention on the pretty boy, I sometimes wonder why the manga is called Naruto.

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Like most, I'm getting pretty tired of Sasuke and his Godmodding powers. He's breaking all the conventions that have been set up for the past...five years, I think Naruto's been running? I am not a happy kitty.

I do admit, the artwork is stellar (from both a fan and artist's perspective), but this is starting to get beyond ridiculous.

I'm really hoping that it is the case that this again is not actually the real Itachi, but some advanced bunshin or body-snatch technique that Itachi is using. Otherwise.... Sheesh.

And a full year of Sasuke? Jesus. Not gonna lie, when I first started reading Naruto, I would have been thrilled at the prospect of such things. Now I'm really hoping that Kishi focuses more on Kakashi than Sasuke, just because of all that's happened. And Kakashi kicks seven types of butt and he hasn't gotten any freaking page space lately. D:[/color][/size]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]Like most, I'm getting pretty tired of Sasuke and his Godmodding powers. He's breaking all the conventions that have been set up for the past...five years, I think Naruto's been running? I am not a happy kitty.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]I suppose that's the one thing I'm not really bothered by about Sasuke's unbelievable level of growth, in some small ways it's not completely unexpected. I mean we keep getting the recurrent "current generations surpass those before them" concept and Sasuke was clearly the most talented of the "new Sannin" in terms of ability.

Really, I think it's been Kishi's promotion of the Sharingan to godly levels of power which is bothering people, apparently it even surpasses the Rinnegan in terms of power, despite the latter being the most powerful dojutsu full stop. Sure it's part of the "Great Three", which makes me want to see what Neji will eventually do with that Byakugan of his.

It's not just Sasuke that's the problem, it's the whole damn Uchiha clan being retconned to ninja-godhood, he's simply the most visible and irritating of the remaining three. I imagine we'd probably even get sick of Neji if they'd continued with his caged-bird mentality for long enough.

Bleugh, I can't believe I'm actually defending Clucky, I feel so unclean. Meh, note I said small ways, obviously his overall growth is pure god-moddage, but aspects are understandable. I can't imagine his training was as informal as that between Jiraiya and Naruto.[/SIZE]

[TwistedChick]

My issue (well, one of my issues) is that if everything is really going down the way it seems to be, then Sasuke is being portrayed as one of the very few strongest ninja in the world, meaning he has surpassed hundreds of shinobi in the past three years. I can understand the most talented genin in Konoha increasing exponentially, but to this extreme...? Not to mention his complete mastery and innovation of the sharingan in that short period of time. We've got to remember he'd only [I]just[/I] awakened it within the few months preceding his betrayal.

Right now, Pein seems to be the only one who might truly surpass and not simply equal him. Naruto, if he went nine-tails, could presumably take him on. But, since Naruto couldn't even harm Orochimaru at four-tails, and Sasuke slaughtered him, there's no comparison between them right now.

Back in the day, before Sasuke went all emo-evil, he was stronger than Naruto, but near the end, he was only [I]slightly[/I] stronger than him. Now, however, Naruto seems to have been eclipsed in every way. And his new wind rasengan thing, its harming him gravely when he uses it is another handicap that Sasuke could take advantage of, perhaps rendering it void if used against him in battle. I understand that the "new sannin" are supposed to be stronger than the old, but it seems exceptionally unbalanced to me. Sasuke was never [I]this[/I] far ahead.