God

[AnimeFront]

I am a very complex indivual. Im an athiest but I say "hell there could be a god up there". If there was a god, I would not besure if I would be on his side. My friends constantly are quoting me on my "Gods not good or evil but Satans fun and offers more", I am not a satanist. If it came to Judgement Day ( I don't believe in that kind of stuff, but if even the smallest percentage could be real) I guess I would form my own third party of people and rage war against god and satan.

Even though I'm no sided with either I have a lot of inverted pentegrams stuff and 666 ( I know, not necessarily a Satanic meaning).


There has always been one thing that i have never understood about some christians. Christian Slipknot fans, I mean the whole band is pretty much openly hating of christisanity and yet I see plenty of Christians with their crosses on and a People = **** shirt.

Well Im Done

[Nomura]

Yesh...I am one of them. I tried to get over them after they kicked out of Greece, but my bro bought me a Slipknot shirt for christmas...And then went back into my room, and got back into them. Heh, not as big a fan now, but I still know that their music is pretty good, Music-wise.

Speaking of gods, what gods do Wiccans worship? Just Wikka? Or others?

[renayiiq]

[quote name='Nomura']Speaking of gods, what gods do Wiccans worship? Just Wikka? Or others?[/quote]


We worship the God and the Goddess. Go here: [URL=http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm]http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm[/URL]

There, you can learn more and I don't have to type a whole bunch.
Also, there's different theisms of it. Some are monotheistic and worship the All or the One, most, though, are either duotheistic or polytheistic. Wiccans who are duotheistic worship the God and the Goddess. You should know what polytheistic means by now, so I think you'll get the drift on that. :animesmil

[Nomura]

[B]WE, huh? Are you one that does magic? Or do you just....be religous, or whatever, without trying it out? You know what....I think I've heard of Wiccan people trying out alchemy too... Occult is a confusing thing (prolly just to me though) I think it's one of the few religions that aren't in my Social Studies/ History books heh. When did it start? Or believed to be started? Salem massacre? Ahh..but yet again, I will write a novel. Better just read the website. :animesmil :animeswea [/B]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]After reading people get upset on pages 2 and 3 I just didn't read page 4. *shrug*

I believe in God. I believe that all Gods and higher beings in all religions are the same thing, so it doesn't matter to me which one you believe in. So the god of Christianity, the god of Judaism, the god of Islam (Allah - I think the use of 'Allah' is awesome), nirvana in Buddhism, all those millions of gods in Shintoism, the gods in Hinduism, even that two-personalitied god in Zoroastrianism (I don't remember his name, I'll have to ask Lumi), etc. are all the same thing, and they are all God (God as a general term for higher being, not God as in just the Christian one).

I believe in God, because he is THE only answer to all question. Try this: Where did the grass come from? Seeds. Where did the first seeds come from? They were probably a mutation of something. How did this thing mutate? Spontaneously. Why is it spontaneous? ... ...The only answer I could come up with was because God said so. And that was a piss poor example, but I can't think of anything else. ;_;

I believe that entropy is caused by God. I believe the Big bang was caused by God. Do you realize how many patterns and orders there are for things in the world? In biology, phi is the golden ratio for everything. It is amazing how well SO MANY things fit into phi, that I can think of nothing else other than God willed it to be that way. In chemistry, when you learn about the periodic table of elements, the orbitals, the energy levels, why there can only 118 elements, and when you see how well the periodic table lines up in so many different ways (periodic trends), it is simply astounding. I believe that God was wise so he willed the elements to be ordered in that way, to make a more organized world. I don't believe people create organization out of chaos - they find God's message of organization.

I was raised Roman Catholic, and I go to church every Sunday. I am currently struggling to find what I believe in [i]besides[/i] God, and what I believe from the church. However, despite anything else I believe in, I believe in a higher being, in God, and I believe he is all knowing, and that he created everything.

I guess I'll say this - I don't understand atheists. I don't know if I haven't tried hard enough to understand them, or I just don't, but I know that I get in a state of disbelief when I think of people that don't believe in a God. I respect their beliefs - go believe what you want - I just don't understand their choice. I... If anyone who is an atheist wants to answer my question: why don't you believe in a God? I'm just curious. I think it would help me to better understand the choice you make. I don't [b]*have*[/b] to understand it by any means, but... I want to, if that's okay with you. [/color]

[renayiiq]

[quote name='Nomura][B']WE, huh? Are you one that does magic? Or do you just....be religous, or whatever, without trying it out? You know what....I think I've heard of Wiccan people trying out alchemy too... Occult is a confusing thing (prolly just to me though) I think it's one of the few religions that aren't in my Social Studies/ History books heh. When did it start? Or believed to be started? Salem massacre? Ahh..but yet again, I will write a novel. Better just read the website. :animesmil :animeswea [/B][/quote]

I've done a little bit of magick, yes. And it's spelled with a k at the end, so that it isn't confused with Harry Potter or illusionist magic, such as the sawing the woman in half trick. Just letting you know, so you're not misinformed. We use energies and stuff. I'm not going to type too much on magick, seeing as you can probably find more on it from the link that I gave you.
No, we don't do alchemy, I don't know where you heard that. It's totally untrue. Alchemy has been proven to be a false practice, anyways, hasn't it? I mean, alchemy is the practice of turning metals into gold...that's about all of my knowledge on alchemy, so yeah...whoever told you that is seriously feeding you a storyline.
No, it actually started back in the 1940's with a guy named Gardner. It didn't start during the Salem Trials. The roots and some of the ideologies of the religion come from an extinct sect of ancient Celtic Paganism, though. Wicca is a Neopagan religion, meaning that it's pretty new, if you can't tell by the prefix "neo." Don't believe those little kids running around saying "Wicca was started thousands of years ago." That's a bunch of crap. It's a newer religion with a few old roots, no matter what anyone tells you. I think I've read that so much in my studying of Wicca that if I had to read it again on another website or in another book, I'd puke.

So yeah. That's all I'm writing for now. If yo have any more questions, you can PM me or something. Or post on here. Or whatever. Yeah.

And uhm, if I got anything wrong or whatever, yeah, please correct me. I've only been studying and practicing for about 3 years, so if anyone can fill me in on anything that I got wrong, please do.

[Lord Rannos]

[COLOR=DarkRed]
[quote name='Anne Lamott']You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.[/quote]

Ah, I love that quote. Back on topic...

Sure I believe in God. I just don't believe in your God.

Basically, I have this strong sense that there is a higher power. I can't define why, or anything like that. I never had a sudden moment where I realized that God is da shiz. But that's kinda the basis of "faith" for me. Something you don't need proof or a reason to believe in. I am not, however, a Christian, Jew, Muslim or anything other organized faith.

I don't have issues with God. I think people can choose their own religion based on whatever they want. There are just certain Christians that bother me. Namely, the hypocritical ones. And it's often based on their influence that I understand how some people actually do view the Christian faith.

For example, people who pick and choose bits of the bible they like. Some people believe things like "God created the Earth in [I]exactly[/I] 7 days" and "We are [I]all[/I] descended from Adam and Eve". And yet they believe the whole "spare the rod, spoil the child" bit is supposed to be taken metaphorically. Of course, there are then the people who do beat their children in the name of God. At least they're consistent.

I understand that not all Christians believe in this, but I've already seen some people in this thread saying [I]this[/I] part is metaphorical but [I]that[/I] part is literal.

To wrap this up, I would just like to say:

Have a personal relationship with your God (or not). You don't need a priest, a book, or anything to tell you what's "right". I believe that if you're a good person, you'll do fine when you die. Whether or not you go to Church.

Feel free to prove me wrong, I'm always interested to learn about other's faiths.[/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[quote name='MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]I guess I'll say this - I don't understand atheists. I don't know if I haven't tried hard enough to understand them, or I just don't, but I know that I get in a state of disbelief when I think of people that don't believe in a God. I respect their beliefs - go believe what you want - I just don't understand their choice. I... If anyone who is an atheist wants to answer my question: why don't you believe in a God? I'm just curious. I think it would help me to better understand the choice you make. I don't [b]*have*[/b'] to understand it by any means, but... I want to, if that's okay with you. [/color][/quote][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Well I?m not a true atheist but I?ll explain why I don?t really believe in God.

Take all the questions that we do not have answers for, every one that I know who believes in God credits Him for creating everything. After all something that beautiful and complex (like our world) couldn?t possibly have just happened by itself right? But to me that argument is flawed. The very same thing can be said of all the technology we use today. Someone from a pre-technological age would see it as being magic and would consider you or me to be a God since it would be beyond their ability to comprehend technology. Even if they could be taught to use it, it would still take a lot of time and effort to educate them as to why it works.

I think the same is true of our world. The idea that someone must have created something so complex is in my opinion no different. It?s simply a matter of we have yet to reach the level of education or technology to understand these things.

Personally, and this is just my opinion so no offense is meant, I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that something so complex happened without a God or some higher power directing it. I say this since many of the religious people I know seem to feel the need to be able to say that God is responsible for everything. A few have even told me that for them the idea that there is no God behind things is terrifying and that even if proven otherwise they would still believe.

I simply do not understand this since I have no problem with the idea that not only do I lack the ability to understand the universe, but I do not need to believe that there is someone who not only understands it but also is the one responsible for it. I am sure this is not true for everyone who believes in God, but for most of the people I know who believe; that is how they have told me they feel. They feel threatened by the idea that God does not exist.

You are not the first person to state that ?God is THE only answer to all questions.? And I honestly do not understand why there has to be someone who knows everything. Just because we lack the ability to understand do we have to have someone who does? I have a hard time understanding why something has to have been created by a God. After all like I mentioned technology has improved, we can do all sorts of things that would appear God like to pre-technological civilizations. I suspect that eventually one day we too will know how to create things. I think to claim God exists just because we can?t do that yet is not proof that he does exist. Only proof that we still have a lot to learn. You say you are in a state of disbelief that people don?t believe; I feel the same way in that I don?t understand why you do. ^_~[/COLOR]

[Zen]

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I have to agree with [color=magenta][B]Roxie[/color][/B] on this one. I do believe in a higher being as the world and universe's creator. I also believe that there is a God, and that every relegion has their own personal relationship with the same God. It is stated in the Islamic texts that Chistians, Jews, and Islams alike all follow the same God. This could most likely be said for most other relegions aswell.

Scientists and athiests may try to explain the world and our being through logic and science. Which is fine and dandy. But I think that those people should know better than any that their just can't be something without cause. They say that the universe was created by a "Big Bang". Well... what came before the Big Bang? What caused the Big Bang? What was there before the Big Bang's components came together? Why aren't there Big Bangs happening all over the place? There must have been something. Something that made all things into existance. I think it's just unexplainable without the possibility of God or some creator being a factor.

I believe strongly in God and my relegion. However, I will be the last person to ever try and push my beleifs on another. I think that people should make their own choices in life, however I just can't find it in me to accept that our lives, society, world, universe, and existance itself could be explained through scientific logic and that it is all a product of chance.

Apes into humans? Maybe. But what guided that process? Why do we still have Apes? Why didn't all the apes evolve with us?

Dinosaurs? Totally. But hey, maybe it was practice.

I don't want to sound ignorant or like I'm pushing things. That's just what I believe myself, just stating my opinion. Make your own conclusions in life.

[B]P.S.- [/B]I'm an optimist anyways. Reincarnation or Heaven, really don't mind either way.[/color][/size]

[KatanaViolet]

Well put, SunfallE!

Religion is basically as old as civilization is.
That's thousands of years!
People back then did not have the same understanding of the world as we do today. We know that up in the sky and know thatthere is not heaven, there is not some sort of land of Gods. There is space. Void, airless, space.

God is seen as this infallible, omniscient being that created the universe, when in reality there are much more logical theories as to how Earth happened to turn out the way it did; how out of all the planets in the solar system, Earth turns out to be the only truly inhabitable one. Human beings have been speculating this for their entire existence.

Nobody can truly say that they know there is a heaven. After all, in theory you'd have to be dead to see it. As for what is written in the Bible, what else can we go on that there is an existence of God? How do we know that Jesus wasn't just some delusional schizophrenic? Even so, this was thousands of years ago! Have you ever played telephone? Remember how easily the phrase can change to something totally different? Think of it that way, except for the span of civilization. Not to mention the imagination we homosapiens have!

There are just too many unanswered questions. It just seems to be too fictional for me. Religion is embedded in our culture, there is no denying that, but for me it just seems to be something to turn to for closure. I've done it. When my grandparents died, I truly wanted to believe they were in heaven and watching over me. When one of my good friends died when she was only 17, I truly wanted to believe that God just wanted another angel. But it only provides closure. The fact that when your loved ones are dead and you know that they are never coming back is sad, and thinking that they are existing in another time and space is comforting.

Call me a skeptic, call me a pessimest, call me an athiest.
I just really don't know, and to me my opinions are pretty logical.

And hey, if I'm wrong, then I had the choice to ignore God. I'm not going to go to Hell for not believing in something. Other things perhaps, but not for not having any religious affiliation. People will believe what they want to believe, and so long as they don't try to shove it down my throat or begin some religious crusade in the name of whatever God they praise, then I can respect their choices.

It's the radicals that I'm wary of.

[Zen]

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Just putting it out there,[B] KatanaViolet[/B] ,I don't think it was a wise choice to say Jesus may have been a 'delusional schizophrenic'. That's not a good way to show that you 'respect their choices'. I'm not going to get angry at you for saying something like that, I'm just saying that's some people's spiritual savior. I'm sure you could have found a better way to say what you were trying to convey rather than saying he was a possiblely psychopathic.

For me, we do live in a logical world. It's just my logic goes beyond the basic human understanding of science. I accept spritiuality and the divine into my logic. Divine logic... kind of an oxymoron, but that's how I view the world.[/color][/size]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo][quote name='MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]I guess I'll say this - I don't understand atheists. I don't know if I haven't tried hard enough to understand them, or I just don't, but I know that I get in a state of disbelief when I think of people that don't believe in a God. I respect their beliefs - go believe what you want - I just don't understand their choice. I... If anyone who is an atheist wants to answer my question: why don't you believe in a God? I'm just curious. I think it would help me to better understand the choice you make. I don't [b]*have*[/b] to understand it by any means, but... I want to, if that's okay with you. [/color][/QUOTE]Well since I do not believe in God at all and my reason though similar is a bit different than SunfallE?s opinion I?ll take a moment to explain how I feel as well. Ironically The Boss hits upon part of why I do not believe: [QUOTE=The Boss][color=darkgreen][size=1] It is stated in the Islamic texts that Chistians, Jews, and Islams alike all follow the same God. [/color'][/size][/quote]I have yet to find a compelling reason to believe any religious text just because it has been around for a while, sure religions texts tell us that God exists, but at the same time those texts were written by another human being. There is no evidence or proof showing that some higher power or being wrote or gave them to us. So when someone tells me that God exists and can?t prove it, I see no reason to believe them just because it is written somewhere.

Another reason and once again The Boss has hit upon part of my reasons: [quote name='The Boss][color=darkgreen][size=1] Scientists and athiests may try to explain the world and our being through logic and science. Which is fine and dandy. But I think that those people should know better than any that their just can't be something without cause. They say that the universe was created by a "Big Bang". Well... what came before the Big Bang? What caused the Big Bang? What was there before the Big Bang's components came together? Why aren't there Big Bangs happening all over the place? There must have been something. Something that made all things into existance. I think it's just unexplainable without the possibility of God or some creator being a factor. [/color'][/size][/quote]Since when did our lack of understanding how the universe works translate into there has to be a God? If anything I believe that since we do not understand the why and cause of things how can we possible understand how a person or higher power like God even exists? It?s a contradiction to say we don?t understand how things are created so therefore there must be a God who we can?t even prove exists. That kind of reasoning makes no sense. Just as religious groups think scientists should know better that to try and explain things using logic and science, they them selves should know better than to turn around and then say God exists and the fact that it can?t be proven is irrelevant.

So in the end I do not believe in God since so far I have yet to see anything that convinces me that such a person does exist. Oh and The Boss, I hope you do not mind that I used your post to help me make my point. Your views happen to be similar to several of my religious friends. [/COLOR]

[Hanabishi Recca]

Yeah, I believe in God, Jesus, & the Holy Spirit [<- Not many people said that... ?]

So, what really are we supposed to say here besides that?
Either way, if you havn't yet looked at my sig, I am a christian, I do go to church, and I also believe that Jesus Is Lord!

[KatanaViolet]

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=darkgreen][size=1]

Just putting it out there,[B] KatanaViolet[/B] ,I don't think it was a wise choice to say Jesus may have been a 'delusional schizophrenic'. That's not a good way to show that you 'respect their choices'. I'm not going to get angry at you for saying something like that, I'm just saying that's some people's spiritual savior. I'm sure you could have found a better way to say what you were trying to convey rather than saying he was a possiblely psychopathic.

For me, we do live in a logical world. It's just my logic goes beyond the basic human understanding of science. I accept spritiuality and the divine into my logic. Divine logic... kind of an oxymoron, but that's how I view the world.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Perhaps not, but to me it's far more likely for someone having delusions of grandeur thinking they are the son of God than actually BEING the son of god. People who say things like that today often undergo psychiatric evalutation. And trust me, there are many schizophrenics who claim to be some sort of religious symbol, how come nobody rushes to go worship them? Wouldn't it make just as much sence as worshiping something you don't even know exists? This is a serious question. I'm not trying to degrade anybody's Lord or whatever, but still, it's not my savior. I said I respect people's religions, it doesn't mean I have to agree with them. And if someone gets offended by that, well then they need to loosen up, because they really shouldn't take what one person says about their savior so seriously. Call it blasphemy if you like. I call it being a realist.

To me there's a difference between spirituality and religion. And you certainly don't need to be religious to be spiritual. Like I said before, it doesn't matter what faith you belong to, just that you have faith. And I have faith in some higher power, but I don't look at is as some sort of diety that I blindly turn to. People don't even question the existence of God(s). They just have this unsurpassable blind faith. Like Hanabishi Recca, I'm sorry for singling you out, but why do you believe that Jesus is Lord? Is there any reason, or do you just do it because you believe it to be true?
Every single religion out there is flawed.

What's more important is what is taught. All moral codes that all people can accept. Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, don't speak ill of others, be kind to those around you. You do not need to have any religous affiliation to believe in those things. People need to accept that when they die, they die. They are like every other organism. They decay, and eventually become food for the soil. People like to believe that there is some sort of way they can live forever. That's just how greedy we are. And I mean, I love entertaining the idea of heaven, but science and technology today has pretty much made it obsolete. I can accept this fact. What matters is what I do while I'm living this all-too-short life. I'm going to live it for myself and my loved ones. Live it to the best of my advantage. What happens after that, who knows. We'll see.

[Zen]

[color=darkgreen][size=1]

To both KatanaViolet and Indifference.

[B]KatanaViolet[/B], I was simply stating that it was not a very sensitive thing to say that Jesus Christ, the lord and savior of the world's largest religous group, was a possible schizophrenic. I personally found it offensive, but I wasn't going to get angry at your ignorance to the fact that you may have put off a couple of people with your statement. I was only stating my logic and beliefs, not what I believe others should believe. Aswell, questioning a person's faith in a higher being and power is highly unneccesary. A person does not have to justify their beliefs to a skeptic who will only ridicule it.

Relegious and spiritual people both believe that when they die, their soul will continue on either in heaven or to be reincarnated. You can't call yourself an athiest and say you are spiritual, because a spirit is not something that can be explained by science, nor can it be created by science. Scientists have a way of saying if they can't explain something through science, then it must not be real. But what about the bleeding statues of Mother Mary? What about the hindu mystics who meditate for weeks at a time? What about the Islamic holy men who ram large knives and needles through their faces without a sign of blood or scarring? How can science explain those things without considering a factor that is untouchable by them?

There are several reason I have a belief in God. One is when I was in vacation in Greece, I was chasing my younger brother around house's drive way, which led into a narrow one car road, which he ran out into just as a large truck was barraling down the road. By some force of the supernatural, my brother told us that he felt... something... pull his body back into and pin him to the wall on the side of the road. His elbow was knicked by the truck's door mirror. If he had been 3 inches closer to the truck, he would have been under it.

I also thank God for my family. My father went from a troubled youth from Mass. Now he is the number one National Guard recruiter in my state. He and I both believe God helped him through several of his ventures to the field. When my mother and father met, they dated for 5 weeks. Then my dad asked my mom to marry her, and they did. Both sides of the family said it wouldn't last and tried to pull them apart. They nearly fell apart several times, until one incident. My little brother was sickly as a young child. At this time, my father was an irresonsible man and was slowly breaking away from my mother and me. In fact, they had been living in seperate homes for a while. One day, my dad drove by my mom's house to see that the car wasn't there. He then went on to the hospitable to see the car there. He went in and saw my Mom's cousin crying, saying "He's gone, man... he's gone." My mom's uncle Jimmy had just passed away. My father did not know of this, and thought instantly it was his sick son who had died, my brother. This event caused my father to go through a revelation in a single moment. He and my mother have been married for 17 years now, have bared three children, and strong as ever.

As they say, the Lord works in mysterious ways. I have many more reason to believe in God, but those are two of the most important in my eyes.

[B]Indifference[/B], I have this to say. Our relegious texts where said to be written by individuals whom were compelled by the holy spirit or the savior to write these texts. These include the books of the Bible, Kohran, Kabbalah, aswell as the writings of the Buhhdist texts. I am not saying that it's not a possibility that some of these texts were contrued by man, in fact, I believe they were. It is said in several texts that it is a sin to shave, get peircings, and for women to cut their hair, which I don't believe God would dictate a person on their outer appearrance. I think the texts are their to be guidelines in your life, and you should interpret them for yourself. That is how I've came to my own beleifs.

I understand that you may not beleive in the spirit or relegion, and I will not impend on your right beleive so. I just think that if our universe is so complex and vast, then some infinitley wise being must have master minded it. It's possible we were meant to understand the workings of our world, so that we may gain greater knowledge as we continued on.

If you wanted to look at the world scientifically, then you would soon find that humans are more than less, plights upon the Earth... seing as how we've basically polluted and destroyed most of it.

-----------------------------------------

But honestly, I'm just stating my opinions, not criticizing anyone elses. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe your wrong. Maybe we're all wrong. We can never know, we can only believe.[/color][/size]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='renayiiq']We use energies and stuff.[/quote]

[color=crimson]I'm sorry I keep hating on you but I found that one sentence to be strangely funny. :p

Much respect of course.[/color]

[quote name='MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]I was raised Roman Catholic, and I go to church every Sunday. I am currently struggling to find what I believe in [i]besides[/i'] God, and what I believe from the church. However, despite anything else I believe in, I believe in a higher being, in God, and I believe he is all knowing, and that he created everything.[/color][/quote]

[color=crimson]What you must understand is that even with the presence of God[s] there are problems on Earth that seem to be unaffected by their will if they are affecting anything at all. Beyond spirituality there is what we see around us- the problems of our current world that we must expend effort into fixing ourselves. God[s] might have created us but we are the owners and caretakers of this planet [as bad as we are about it]- it even says that was our original purpose in Genesis.

Believe in yourself and your fellow man. That's all I can see you having [i]for sure[/i] at the moment, as unreliable as your fellow man may be. We have responsibilities whether or not our creators are Gods.[/color]

[quote name='The Boss][color=darkgreen][size=1]Apes into humans? Maybe. But what guided that process? Why do we still have Apes? Why didn't all the apes evolve with us?[/color'][/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]I'm no expert but I believe there was a branching effect between what would eventually become us and our monkey relatives. Within our own genus there are several different species of [i]homo[/i] but the only species that is not extinct is [i]homo sapiens[/i].

I'm sure some egghead OBer could give you a short [strike]tangent[/strike] essay that would better answer your questions.[/color]

[renayiiq]

[QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]I'm sorry I keep hating on you but I found that one sentence to be strangely funny. :p

Much respect of course.[/color][/QUOTE]


Well, it's true, though. Like, we use spiritual energy and stuff, as well as herbs and a few other things.

[shinji172]

I was brought up to believe in God. However, for me there are too many factors which stop me from joining a religion. For example, for a long period of time, the bible wasnt even translated from latin. It wasnt until around the 13th-14th century that translations were available (feel free to correct me on the exact timescale). Regardless, only the priests/monks e.t.c. could understand the text. Whilst in an ideal world, it would have been understood word for word, the fact is that language barriers can cause all sorts of problems when it comes to translation. This isnt even including the possibility of ommisions/changes by corrupt members of the clergy.

Another problem i have is the creation story (yes, im a believer of evolution). To me, it just seems more logical to follow scientific reasoning.

[QUOTE](reguarding evolution) DeathKnight said:I'm sure some egghead OBer could give you a short tangent essay that would better answer your questions.[/QUOTE]

Happy to oblidge :animesmil .Any questions on this, PM me. No guarantee i will have the exact answer to your questions but i dont want to spam up the thread.

I do believe in God. Im just not as accepting to the religious texts. However (this goes to everyone here) dont let other peoples views force you to change your religion/beliefs. Every opinion is valid in some way. Just follow the one that seems right to you.

[Zen]

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Concerning the evolution comment. I only meant it in the manner as, I wonder why no other species of animal evolved into bipedal beings. Technically, the oldest creators on Earth are alligators, sharks, and cockroaches. Why didn't they evolve into smarter beings? They've been here longer than mammals in general. I just think, if we did evolve, something must have guided, or else we would have been contempt with killing animals with sharp rocks and living in caves.

I'm just saying that I can be logical, I just include my logic with my spirituality and belief in God.[/color][/size]

[shinji172]

[QUOTE]I'm just saying that I can be logical, I just include my logic with my spirituality and belief in God.[/QUOTE]

I guess i have beliefs similar to that. For example, i believe in the big bang theory. However, you have to wonder what caused that specific reaction (or the substances existance in the first place) to occur. More importantly, you have to ask. Why is most (known) intelligent life present on earth? Why wasnt there adaptions on other planets?

Its likely that these reasons will be found through the progress of science. However, my belief is that there will always be something unexplanable/illogical to us. Therefore one (possible) cause could be a higher being (a God).

Im guess ing you were trying to say something similar (feel free to tell me if got it wrong).

[Zen]

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If you read my earlier posts, then you'll see your basically spot on with what I believe. I just have a more open mind to the fact that their is, or atleast may be, a God. But yes, your around the same area as me, Shinji.[/color][/size]

[KatanaViolet]

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=darkgreen][size=1]

To both KatanaViolet and Indifference.

[B]KatanaViolet[/B], I was simply stating that it was not a very sensitive thing to say that Jesus Christ, the lord and savior of the world's largest religous group, was a possible schizophrenic. I personally found it offensive, but I wasn't going to get angry at your ignorance to the fact that you may have put off a couple of people with your statement. I was only stating my logic and beliefs, not what I believe others should believe. Aswell, questioning a person's faith in a higher being and power is highly unneccesary. A person does not have to justify their beliefs to a skeptic who will only ridicule it.

Relegious and spiritual people both believe that when they die, their soul will continue on either in heaven or to be reincarnated. You can't call yourself an athiest and say you are spiritual, because a spirit is not something that can be explained by science, nor can it be created by science. Scientists have a way of saying if they can't explain something through science, then it must not be real. But what about the bleeding statues of Mother Mary? What about the hindu mystics who meditate for weeks at a time? What about the Islamic holy men who ram large knives and needles through their faces without a sign of blood or scarring? How can science explain those things without considering a factor that is untouchable by them?

There are several reason I have a belief in God. One is when I was in vacation in Greece, I was chasing my younger brother around house's drive way, which led into a narrow one car road, which he ran out into just as a large truck was barraling down the road. By some force of the supernatural, my brother told us that he felt... something... pull his body back into and pin him to the wall on the side of the road. His elbow was knicked by the truck's door mirror. If he had been 3 inches closer to the truck, he would have been under it.

I also thank God for my family. My father went from a troubled youth from Mass. Now he is the number one National Guard recruiter in my state. He and I both believe God helped him through several of his ventures to the field. When my mother and father met, they dated for 5 weeks. Then my dad asked my mom to marry her, and they did. Both sides of the family said it wouldn't last and tried to pull them apart. They nearly fell apart several times, until one incident. My little brother was sickly as a young child. At this time, my father was an irresonsible man and was slowly breaking away from my mother and me. In fact, they had been living in seperate homes for a while. One day, my dad drove by my mom's house to see that the car wasn't there. He then went on to the hospitable to see the car there. He went in and saw my Mom's cousin crying, saying "He's gone, man... he's gone." My mom's uncle Jimmy had just passed away. My father did not know of this, and thought instantly it was his sick son who had died, my brother. This event caused my father to go through a revelation in a single moment. He and my mother have been married for 17 years now, have bared three children, and strong as ever.
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Boss, you are taking everything I say way to seriously. Let me clarify, I am not an athiest. I was raised Catholic, but I'm not that either. I don't have any religious affiliation. But don't think that I'm not going to state my opinions/speculations just out of fear for offending somebody's religion. I'm not saying I'm right. I was simply stating my logic and somewhat beliefs as well... playing the Devil's Advocate, so to speak. I'm constantly speculating about religions. I'm more agnostic than anything. I will question everyone's beliefs, see why they justify it, why they believe what they believe.

See, to me, blindly believing in something that sounds like a fairy tale, believing that there is some way that human beings can exist forever is not only ignorant, but extremely grandiouse. But hey, you stay tomahto, I say tomayto. You don't have to justify your beliefs to me if you don't want to, but then why should I? I can be just as spiritual as someone who is religious.. the only difference is, is that I don't unquestionably worship something. Science is just as likely to answer all of life's questions as religion is. Only science you can see. Religion is literally a leap of faith.

There are many phenomenons that science cannot explain. But science did explain the stars, which I believe is what people saw as heaven. We answered those questions. I can't answer yours, and I agree that there are some things that are just too unreal to believe.

And both your stories are very touching, and I mean that. But I don't think God should be accredited to you're family. It's the love your family shares for each other. And perhaps it is that love that snapped your father back into it. As for your brother, that was just an extremely lucky close call. But hey, who really knows, they both had happy endings nonetheless, which is what's important. I'm not not not not not saying that you are wrong for being Christian. It is not wrong to be Islamic, Judaist (sp?), Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, Wiccan, or whatever. (Although it really bugs me how some Christians preach about religious tolerance but then think that all terrorists are Muslims...)

What matters to me is the moral codes these religions teach. Every religion teaches principles that man should live by. I see them more as a philosphy than a religion.
See, it's alot harder for someone who has no religious affiliation to argue their point, because we are scattered all over the place. We don't know what to believe. At least if I was Christian, I could say "God exists, this I'm sure of". But no, to me, that just sounds naive. It sounds like something that I tell myself when I need comfort, when events happen that I have no control over.

When my friend died when I was 17, I heard so much of "This is God's plan", and "She's in heaven now, God just needed another angel"... and even before she died. I'm not a religious person, and I prayed like I've never prayed before. So many people would say "Just pray for her, it's in God's hands now", "Just have faith in God." Where was this so-called God then? And since then, yes, I lost faith. I honestly don't care what any of you say. If he/she does exist, then **** em, because he/she obviously wasn't listening. God's plan... it's preposterous. What about her plans? What about my plans?

Perhaps part of this skeptism does stem from that (yeah, most likely). But honestly, since then I said screw it to religion. I know right from wrong, and I'm going to live a good life for me. And when I die, I'll see what happens. But I can tell you now, If there is a God, I'm not going to kiss *** just so I can get into heaven. I'm gonna tell that guy exactly what I think. I may be a sinner, but I do the best I can to be a good person, and that's good enough.


Bah, now I'm getting all emotional and can't even articulate my feelings properly. I'm just bitter now. Bahhh there was so much more I wanted to say. I really had a mature arguement. But Right now I just really want to kick God in the balls. :animesigh

[Guest tanukioh]

[QUOTE=Cutie_Gurl_1990]Before I post, I'd like to state this is my first post.

Okay, who here actually believes in god or jesus?[/QUOTE]
I believe in god, and Jesus, however, I don't think some of the things in the bible are NOT exactly god-based. Things like killing (which God obviously hates, cause it's in the ten commandments) are often used as punishments in the bible for things as simple as being gay (which i"m not, but I think people have a right to it) or following a different beliefe system (such as magic, which, when you get down to it, is only less-than-goddly-miracles). >.> this leads me to think that part of the bible (not all of it!) is made up by man in order to strengthen religious hold on the world. ^_^ comments?

[Zen]

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I can very much so sympathise with you, [B]KatanaViolet[/B]. Believe me, I've lost alot of people that were close to me. Most recently was my Grandmother, basically my third parent. She supported everything I did and watned to do with my life. She never did anything but show me love. 2 years ago, she had contracted lung-cancer, and she came and lived with me and my family for the remainder of her life. For a full year, I had to watch my grandmother, a person I loved very dearly, slowly decay in front of me.

She lost alot of weight, she lost all of her hair due to the chemo-therapy, and she became generally weak. At one point in time, while my parents were gone, I came into the kitchen to find her on the ground. She had collapsed and I had to help her back to the coach. That was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in my life. As time went on, she couldn't do anything by herself. She eventually had to be taken care of by a hospis (SP?) nurse while living with us. When the time came, she went slowly. I was at her bed side, and my house was filled up with my family. I held her hand as she passed away, balling. That was the most I ever cried in my life. And believe me, I'm not a crier.

When it was all said, done, and she was legally dead, she had left me her most prized possession. Her Bible. A book she had read everyday of her life, no matter what. She had kept the book since she was very young. It was many years old. See, the only thing she ever asked me to do, is believe in God, be a good person in life, and be willing to stand up for myself and my beliefs when the time came. So, she left me this Bible, filled with notes, highlights, and such. It is now my most prized possession.

See, I'm not even a very [B]'relegious[/B]' person in the traditional sense. I don't attend church, and I had never really picked up a Bible in my life. But I cannot bring myself to believe that their is no God in this world. I just simply can't.

One may say, "Well, if God were so great, then why didn't he cure the cancer?". Well, my grandmother was a very relegious woman. Her husband had left her early in life, and she spent most of her lifetime taking care of her children and grandchildren. The only thing I think she ever really wanted was to be at one with God. And her wish has been granted in my eyes. Yes, I am very sad that she won't be there with me as I get married, or graduate high school, or any of that. I'm sad she's not going to be here to be with my brothers as they grow up. But I know she is watching, or atleast, I feel that that she is. And I can make peace knowing that in my heart, she is with God, and she is happier than she ever could be.

I have other relatives who have passed aswell. My second aunt, who treated me like her own child died early in life, leaving behind her daughter, Raven and husband. There are others, but I'll spare you.

I understand what you may be going through. I understand that you could be angry with God. I was for sometime myself, but I've made peace with him. I don't blindly follow God. I've done a lot of soul searching to make me believe in God. It's not just something that I just knew would have to be. I thought about it deeply, and I still do. My current beliefs are the product of that deep meditation of mind.

I misunderstood what you were trying to convey, I'll admit, but I'm just saying that you could have worded some things better. Also, I can't stand those uber-christians who hate all other relegions too. I'm not trying to argue with you about anything. I'm not trying to push any of my thoughts onto your mind. I'm just defending my beliefs and letting you know that if you did believe in God, it is okay to be angry with him. But forgiveness is a good quality to have.[/color][/size]

[KatanaViolet]

Well I'm glad we cleared this up.

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother. It's so hard to go through. I've also lost a loved one to cancer, and I can totally identify with how you felt. Both of my grandparents were very devout Christians. In fact, the only time we went to church or said grace at the dinner table was when we were them.

It wasn't so much that I lost faith. I still have faith in some sort of higher power, I just don't necessarily believe that there is a God or Gods. I just feel like I just don't know. If there is a god, yes I'm a little bitter and hurt, but life goes on. But I'm gonna keep on truckin, just like I always do.

I am a very forgiving person, but I don't know. That's why I'll just keep doing my own thing, and when I die, we'll see what happens.