Over-moderation?

[John]

I'm certainly one for decent post quality, but I think that the O. Lounge, and other forums to a lesser degree, has gotten a bit too strict with its rules concerning such. For example, a recent post by SunfallE in the Platypus thread:

[QUOTE=SunfallE][color=DarkOliveGreen]My story is that so far this thread is [u]spam[/u]. I suggest that people start putting a little more effort into their replies. Also [b]tanukioh[/b], when starting a thread try to put a little more effort into it. If you really want to discuss stories on how the Duckbill Platypus came to be you could have put in your own story of how you think it happened.

Or even some information on it?s origins for example:
[i]
When first seen in 1797 by early white settlers near the Hawkesbury River, outside Sydney, it triggered a search and controversy that lasted almost a century. Nicknamed the 'watermole', it was said to be a combination reptile, bird, fish and furred animal. The perplexed local governor sent specimens back to mother England for study.

But the English found it equally unbelievable. One zoologist suggested it was 'freak imposture' sold to gullible seamen by Chinese taxidermists. Another, suspecting fraud, tried to pry the 'duck's bill' off the pelt; the marks of his scissors can still be seen today on the original, now preserved in the British Museum of Natural History in London.[/i]

So I?m changing the basis of this thread to a general discussion on Duckbill Platypus and not just stories on how they came to be.[/color][/QUOTE] I'm sorry, Ms. Sunfall, but you sucked any potential enjoyment out of that thread like a vampiric sponge. I think to a high degree, anything silly in the Lounge is quickly being labeled as spam, when, with some creative replies from some creative members, this thread could've provided more originality and entertainment than anything else you can find in there right now. Granted, the posts in there so far could've been fleshed out more (but I think that would've come with time anyway), and it might've been better suited as a creative writing exercise in the Anthology, but changing the basis of the thread to a general discussion about platypi (platypodes, according to Wikipedia, I guess >_>) has done nothing for it but make it entirely mundane.

It's been a general trend recently that paragraphs-long posts, even if they say nothing (as I've seen happen) will never garner any warnings, while many picture or one-line posts which honestly say volumes more get chastised. This "big = good" thinking has made me really apathetic about OB as a whole. I'm not saying that you should let go of the reigns and let threads about people's preference of slushies at a school that only the OP goes to get by freely, but I think it'd be a lot better for everyone if you loosened said reigns a bit, and let people make threads and posts without wondering if the mods will get onto them about it. I think there's a little too much worry about the forum going to shambles, and it's not having great effects on it. I'm not trying to criticize the mods nearly as much as I'm sure it looks like, I just think it's something to consider in the future. *hugs the moderation*

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Indigo]I don?t agree, it may seem like over moderation but the rules are there for a reason. I?ve read: [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52331]Otaku Lounge Rules[/URL] and overall the thread didn't get off to a good start. The first response was fine, but the following responses were just short and spammy re-posting of the picture and saying it was funny. Seems to me that it isn't all that hard to say that's funny and then proceed to state how you thought platypus came to be or even post your own funny picture combination.

There are plenty of threads that don't have super high post quality and yet fit the guidelines well enough that they are not closed. Just take a look at these threads: [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=721773#post721773]Choose......[/URL] and [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=722464#post722464]Be careful what you wish for.[/URL] They are silly and yet fit in just fine since people put in the effort to put in their response instead of just commenting on what was said before.

I think you missed the most important part of SunfallE's post, the

" So I?m changing the basis of this thread to a general discussion on Duckbill Platypus and not just stories on how they came to be."

Instead of closing the thread they left it open to either post your own story, your own picture version or just to discuss Platypus's in general. [/COLOR]

[Dagger]

It's sort of difficult to phrase this reply in a way that doesn't point fingers at anyone. But I'll try my darndest, because that isn't my intent at all, and rather than touching on specific examples, I want to start off by conveying some general observations gleaned from my own experience.

Like the level of activity in different sub-forums and pretty much everything else related to an online message board, moderation strictness tends to come in cycles. Sometimes it has to do with the level of spam. For example: during the period in which I was the sole moderator of the Anime Lounge, it got to the point that I just couldn't take care of everything on my own. So instead, I took a kind of triage approach, which meant that little things slipped through a lot more often... but the forum didn't implode or anything.

Conversely, when I first became a mod, I was quite strict--whereas now, I lean far more toward the side of leniency. It took me a while to find a good balance, and it was particularly difficult to strike the right tone when I was first starting out, especially since I was as nervous as heck about being a mod in the first place. I get what you're saying, but I would really hesitate to consider this "a general trend." Rather, I see it as being part of the usual fluctuations.

Now. As far as the Platypus thread goes, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the original post. Ideally, it would have ended up being a fun game-type thread, like the wish-granting topic. Rather than warning the OP, it might have been better to nudge subsequent posters to try and stay on track.

So I understand your concern, and I thank you for bringing it up in a constructive, non-confrontational fashion. But just as it's sometimes better to let threads like that incubate for a little while before you pass judgment on them or on the individual replies within them, it's also better to let trends like the one you're seeing here continue to ferment before you start to worry about them too much.

~Dagger~

[John]

[quote name='indifference][color=Indigo]I don?t agree, it may seem like over moderation but the rules are there for a reason. I?ve read: [url="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52331"]Otaku Lounge Rules[/url'] and overall the thread didn't get off to a good start. The first response was fine, but the following responses were just short and spammy re-posting of the picture and saying it was funny. Seems to me that it isn't all that hard to say that's funny and then proceed to state how you thought platypus came to be or even post your own funny picture combination.[color=black][/quote] Mhm, the first few posts did leave much to be desired, but I think Sunfall's reply should've been directed more towards the post quality specifically.[/color]

[color=black][quote name='indifference][/color]There are plenty of threads that don't have super high post quality and yet fit the guidelines well enough that they are not closed. Just take a look at these threads: [url="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=721773#post721773"]Choose......[/url] and [url="http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=722464#post722464"]Be careful what you wish for.[/url'] They are silly and yet fit in just fine since people put in the effort to put in their response instead of just commenting on what was said before.[color=black][/quote] Actually, both of those threads are [i]based[/i] around commenting on what was said before. :P

Sorry, I couldn't resist! X)

But more seriously, those are forum games, where high discussion isn't an expectation and silliness is basically a necessity anyway.
[/color]
[color=Black][QUOTE=indifference][/color]I think you missed the most important part of SunfallE's post, the

" So I?m changing the basis of this thread to a general discussion on Duckbill Platypus and not just stories on how they came to be."

Instead of closing the thread they left it open to either post your own story, your own picture version or just to discuss Platypus's in general. [/color][/QUOTE] Actually, that's the part that caught my attention the most. Because of how it was worded, I simply mistook her intent to be to take the thread in a different direction, rather than to open it up to more varied discussion because of the posts it had spawned so far. That was definitely my error, though I still think a simple reminder of quality would've sufficed.

And Dagger, I agree with what you said. I wasn't worried about it, though, and I think it had had a prescence long enough to at least warrant an address (though not enough for an actual complaint, of course).

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=DarkOliveGreen][quote name='Dagger']Conversely, when I first became a mod, I was quite strict--whereas now, I lean far more toward the side of leniency. It took me a while to find a good balance, and it was particularly difficult to strike the right tone when I was first starting out, especially since I was as nervous as heck about being a mod in the first place. I get what you're saying, but I would really hesitate to consider this "a general trend." Rather, I see it as being part of the usual fluctuations. [/quote]Nervous as heck really sums it up well. I?ve been trying really hard to strike a good balance without overdoing it. I certainly wasn?t trying to suck the life out of the thread. ^_~
[quote name='John']Actually, that's the part that caught my attention the most. Because of how it was worded, I simply mistook her intent to be to take the thread in a different direction, rather than to open it up to more varied discussion because of the posts it had spawned so far. That was definitely my error, though I still think a simple reminder of quality would've sufficed. [/quote]Well I certainly didn?t explain it as clearly as I thought I had. So I added another post that I hope explains my intent a little better.
[/COLOR]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]After looking over the thread, I don't really see anything wrong with SunfallE's post. It's close to what I would've posted--and have posted--in similar situations. I mean, when you get multiple people posting nothing but, "omg thats funny lolz," it isn't something that should just be brushed off. The point about providing your own input when creating a thread is also relevant. It's not something I've cared too much about, so long as the thread spawns some decent conversation, but in this case there was only one decent post in the thread.

At that point, then, she would've been perfectly justified in closing the thread and simply saying, "Try again." And there've been times when that would've happened. We're actually letting more threads stay open now than we have in the past, to try and salvage them so to speak, rather than closing them altogether. Which is what SunfallE was doing in asking that people put more effort into their posts. So it could've been worse.

Dagger also brings up a good point about it taking time to settle in and get used to things when a new staff member first starts moderating. We've hired quite a few new moderators recently, so new staff are going to handle things a bit differently as they settle in. And that might seem out of line with how things were being dealt with previously, but it's just an unavoidable part of hiring new staff.

Not that I'm saying people should just overlook things if they notice something they think is out of line. But there has to be a certain amount of understanding.

Oh, and one thing which was brought up here, which I'd like to call attention to, is this:[/color]
[quote name='John']It's been a general trend recently that paragraphs-long posts, even if they say nothing (as I've seen happen) will never garner any warnings, while many picture or one-line posts which honestly say volumes more get chastised.[/quote][color=#4B0082]This should just not be the case. I realize it can be hard for moderators to make judgements on this sort of thing, but spam is spam, and it shouldn't matter how big a piece of spam a post is. So longer posts shouldn't be given preferential treatment over shorter posts simply because of their length.

I'd encourage moderators not to hesitate in dealing with longer posts just because they're long. (Or if you're not sure, PM a senior staff member about it.) And I'd also encourage members to report such posts. They can be easy to miss when skimming through a thread looking for problem posts, so having members call attention to them can be a big help.[/color]

[John]

[QUOTE=SunfallE][color=DarkOliveGreen]Nervous as heck really sums it up well. I?ve been trying really hard to strike a good balance without overdoing it. I certainly wasn?t trying to suck the life out of the thread. ^_~
Well I certainly didn?t explain it as clearly as I thought I had. So I added another post that I hope explains my intent a little better.
[/color][/QUOTE] Mhm, I just misread your intent there (story of the internet, lol), so what you were trying to do was a smart move, really. I just hope I didn't offend with the "enjoyment-sucking" comment. I spoke only in jest, but I just noticed it looks harsher in text. >>;;

[quote name='Desbreko][color=#4b0082']After looking over the thread, I don't really see anything wrong with SunfallE's post. It's close to what I would've posted--and have posted--in similar situations. I mean, when you get multiple people posting nothing but, "omg thats funny lolz," it isn't something that should just be brushed off. The point about providing your own input when creating a thread is also relevant. It's not something I've cared too much about, so long as the thread spawns some decent conversation, but in this case there was only one decent post in the thread.[color=black][/quote] Yeah, my point wasn't that action shouldn't be taken, just different action than what seemingly was. I say "seemingly", because her intent was different than what I thought at the time, heh.
[/color][/color]

[Guest Metal Dragon]

Well, it's a matter of point of view so I'd say there is somewhat over-moderation. But there is a way to stop that. If no one makes mistakes anymore, then the moderators won't be needed and sent back to Members....in other words, if there is over-moderation, then live with it.