Where do you stand?

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[b]Just recently, my mom sent me this in an e-mail she received. It's a forwarded letter that's been circulating since the September 11th tragedy. I believe this letter is important (or I wouldn't have spent the effort to post it.) Whether you're for or against war, whether you're a pacifist or not, whether you're sure of your opinions, or undecided...... this e-mail has significance. Where do you stand in the world [i]today[/i], in this time of tragedy? Do you know, or are you uncertain? This e-mail just may help you figure it out. {If this offends anybody..... I'm sorry. If you read it correctly... it shouldn't.:box:}[/b]


[size=1]"Muslims in America ... You worry me


You worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.

I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, and professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate but I know nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On Sept. 11, nineteen Arab-Muslims hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers.

So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to differentiate between you.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and the Arab-Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, etc. ... while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those very same good neighbors and children? The answer to my own questions that it is past the time for me to try to determine this. The events of Sept. 11th changed the answer. It is time for every Arab-Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, if you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots? Are you willing to preserve this freedom with the spilling of your own blood? Do you love America? And if this is your commitment, then I need you to start letting me know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent (I worry who you regard as innocent) and condemnation of unprovoked attacks (I worry what is unprovoked to you.) I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am interested only in action. What will you do for America - the country -- at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting Allah Bless America. I want to see Arab-Muslim young men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money and time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole. The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Deliver them up, now.

But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisal. The few Arab-Muslim representatives that have appeared on the media are defensive and equivocating. They seem more concerned with making sure the U. S. prove who is responsible before they act, and protecting their own people from any violence directed toward them, here in the U.S. and abroad. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. Because even if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true, it matters little if large numbers of current Islamic practitioners interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion.

I want to know where every Arab-Muslim in this country stands and I think it is within my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to you to show me where you stand.

Until then ... you worry me."[/size]

[b]If a [i]God[/i] or [i]Goddess[/i] feels the need to close or delete this thread, go ahead.... it's not like I can stop you. I've made my choice, and so have you.[/b]

[BabyGirl]

[color=deeppink]Well...first off, I see where this person is coming from writing this letter, and I think their feelings are justified. Yet to publicize those feelings in such a way as email...ugh, it almost makes me sick.

If I turned this into a "what if" situation, and say "what if a group of disabled people planned vengeance on a corporation that did them wrong and ended up killing a bunch of Americans?" Would my brother (who resides in a wheelchair) be looked down upon because of someone else's actions? I honestly don't think so, and I sure as hell don't hope so.

The reason they worry whoever wrote this is because the person is ignorant and should go out and deversify themself. Bah...I almost can excuse how naive they are...but I can't...that email is quite honestly ridiculous.[/color]

[Lady Macaiodh]

i completely agree w/ the disabled people example, babygirl. it says in the e-mail that the fbi has a list of 400 people... well, there are 280 million people in america, so i doubt your average arab-muslim is going to be able to look at the list & immediately recognize the names. saying "you know where they are, deliver them up" is not realistic.

i understand why the writer of the e-mail is worried. but i can personally say that my perception of the average arab-muslim has not been affected in the least. i've never been a stereotypical thinker. hey, i'm a minority myself, for me to judge someone b/c of their race/religion would be incredibly hypocritical.

[James]

[color=orangered][size=1]I agree with BabyGirl here.

While I can to some extent understand this person's train of thought...I don't think it's justified.

I mean, when Timothy McVeigh destroyed the Federal Building, I didn't suddenly "notice" all the white Christians around me. They didn't stick out anymore than usual.

After September 11, I don't look at Muslim people and think "I see you differently now".

If anything, I feel closer to them. I feel closer because I know that if someone from my own country did those things...I would hate them for it and I would be completely horrified by it.

Muslim people don't think any differently to anyone else in the grand scheme of things. They, like everyone else, hate violence and crime...and nobody in their right mind would support September 11.

So really...I think that the person above is an example of a very ignorant and to some extent, racist person.

There is no need to feel that way...and no real reason why anyone should or would. September 11 has made me feel closer to people who I might otherwise not notice as much.[/color][/size]

[Transtic Nerve]

I just wanted to say one thing about this e-mail that may not have been stated...

I'm not of the Muslim religion but I sure as hell know enough about it to tell this. Osama bin laden and his "people" are not of the Muslim religion... they may say they are, hell I can say i'm a Satanist, doesn't mean I am... They are not of this religion... Islam preaches peace... happiness, just as Christinaity does... just as Judaism does... For what many people don't realize is these three religions are brothers... they basically teach the same thing, believe in the same god... for if you dare to believe the acts of terrorism done on Sept 11 were done in the name of Allah and in the name of the Muslim religion, then you can blame Christianity too.. you can blame Jewish people too... they are the same in many ways. Osama doesn't represent the Muslim religion, He doesn't represent the Middle Eastern race... It's like if Hitler was doing his crap right now... would you blame all white people and walk down the street yelling at any white person "Jew Killer"... no.... thats nonsense.

The writer of that e-mail needs the facts before he goes off making a fool of him or herself... Only the weak minded people would even dare try to stereotype all Middle Easterners and Muslims as terrorist or wanting to destroy America.... Please... Osama's own brother lives about 30 minutes away from me... do i feel him as any threat, despite the fact he's a Middle Easterner, a Muslim, and above that, Osama bin Laden's own brother.... nope.. I would go up to him and shake his hand and tell him how happy I am he is not the person his brother is. I am not affraid of Muslims, I am not worried about them, and I certainly will not treat them any different, for they are Americans, like the rest of us (or well most of us)

[RicoTranzrig]

[COLOR=darkblue]I see it differently...I know that muslims are for peace but at my school some of the muslims there don't show that and it makes people think differently. I guess lately, people have been lazy in reading and seeing the passages and interpreting each and every word for themselves. They rely too much on human wisdom which taints books such as the Koran or the Bible...they listen to others interpretations and consider it the truth without even seeking it for themselves alone and without influence. And this is the consequence...[/COLOR]

[Sephiroth]

ugh, as a muslim myself, that letter made me sick....

first off, it is stupid to say something like that, I have had my country Iraq, bombed by america god knows how many times, but do I look at every american differently? no, I judge people on their personalities, not on what color or religion they are, the person who wrote that letter, I hope they get shot in the head in a dark alley REAL soon, and thats all I've got to say about that, that letter just really p.issed me off....

[Lady Macaiodh]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]
I'm not of the Muslim religion but I sure as hell know enough about it to tell this. Osama bin laden and his "people" are not of the Muslim religion... they may say they are, hell I can say i'm a Satanist, doesn't mean I am... They are not of this religion... Islam preaches peace... happiness, just as Christinaity does... just as Judaism does... For what many people don't realize is these three religions are brothers... they basically teach the same thing, believe in the same god... for if you dare to believe the acts of terrorism done on Sept 11 were done in the name of Allah and in the name of the Muslim religion, then you can blame Christianity too.. you can blame Jewish people too... they are the same in many ways. Osama doesn't represent the Muslim religion, He doesn't represent the Middle Eastern race... It's like if Hitler was doing his crap right now... would you blame all white people and walk down the street yelling at any white person "Jew Killer"... no.... thats nonsense.
[/B][/QUOTE]

*starts clapping* here, here, well said, transtic.

*gives sephiroth a hug*

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sephiroth [/i]
[B]ugh, as a muslim myself, that letter made me sick....

that letter just really p.issed me off.... [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]I am not a Muslim, yet I share your same emotions...the letter angers me more than anything I have read about the whole Sept. 11 attacks...gah...

I'll always remember this poster on my 8th grade English teacher's wall that said "Ignorance is [i]not[/i] bliss."

How true :rolleyes:[/color]

[coolkam007]

people.. its not a tragedy.. a tragedy is a type of play..

the 9-11 attacks are a atrocity

[RicoTranzrig]

Well...it may be considered a Tragedy because it was planned and "played" out horrifcally...but Muslim-Americans are not our enemy...we're at war...and it's a confusing war that we're in...if you take the Islamic Extremists and compare them with the general population of muslims...it would be almost like comparing the KKK with modern day christians. That's how 'extreme' their interpretations are...(Got that from the West Wing...)

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[color=indigo]:( I'm kinda disappointed in myself, that I chose such a cr-ppy and ignorant e-mail. The fact of the matter is, I just love to read intelligent replies/comments/opinions. I knew, anyone with a brain.... would read the whole thing, and post a coherant reply. Everyone else... heh.... would be frightened away by its magnitude. I'm so loco:whoops:.[/color]

[BabyGirl]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by *GaLxY-GiRl* [/i]
[B][color=indigo]Everyone else... heh.... would be frightened away by its magnitude. I'm so loco:whoops:.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]Lol, or you could be like one of my friends (yes, I printed your first post out and made people read it) who put it down after reading two paragraphs because it made her so mad.[/color]

[Guest Akito]

Personally, I stand by myself, I dun care what they are, as long as they try to kill me, and fail! For I'm a duel class, Warrior/Berserker!!!

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BabyGirl [/i]
[B]

[color=deeppink]Lol, or you could be like one of my friends (yes, I printed your first post out and made people read it) who put it down after reading two paragraphs because it made her so mad.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Wow.... That s-cks. I kinda feel the way ya'll do. I read the e-mail again... and it angered me. Which is strange, because usually I [i]try[/i] to accept all aspects of opinions as creations of thought.... whether I disagree with them or not. Nevertheless.... all of your replies were very thought provoking, which is always cool. :toothy:.[/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo] Wow, it feels like I am a day late and a dollar short on this topic, I don't know how I missed it before. I won't elaborate on my reasoning on why the writer of that email is an ignorant-*** b/c it has been said already. I would like to say that I feel sorry for the few Muslim families that live in the same backwoods area of North Carolina that I do...they were discriminated against here before September 11th and now all of the gun toting, KKK card carrying, inbred yokels believe they have a reason to play Green Beret because there is a person who is not a die-hard southern baptist amongst them (by the way, I have nothing against Southern Baptists, everyone where I live seems to be a southern baptist, whether they are extremly intelligent or feeble minded inbreds. And if any Muslims skirted from the general public, who could blame them. I mean, would you want someone to harrass your child at the playground for his or her religious beliefs or have news people constantly accosting you to ask if you know any terrorists (that happened to my sisters friend)...[/color]

[velvet paws]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=orangered][size=1]I agree with BabyGirl here.

After September 11, I don't look at Muslim people and think "I see you differently now".

If anything, I feel closer to them. I feel closer because I know that if someone from my own country did those things...I would hate them for it and I would be completely horrified by it.
[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

Im sorry to say that this is not exactly true for round here. We are still getting alot of trouble from many of the teenage and youny adults who claim to be muslims. As I walk down the street I hear crys of "look behind you the plane is coming!" or "praise bin laden" and every so often the mocking cries of "did bin laden kill your family?"
There are still smart people. They said they were sorry for what had happened over in the USA and said they could not account for the actions of those people or for that of their friends. I'm still friends with Siyma and Layma..why shouldnt I be? Yet I'm still scared walking down the street past a group of asain boys, as many of my friends have been beaten up by them since the incedent, seemingly unprevoked, and I myself have been threatened before. Fireworks have been aimed at my boyfriend when he was on his way to my house..and at his dog, while the dog was at the front door of his house. He has done nothing to these people and yet they feel they can call him "white trash" and do this. I dont blame them for anything other than being jerks..but they have lost all of my respect and feeling and now they frighten me. How can they be so stupid and ignorant to the fact this was/is a serious matter..and treat it as a joke? The trouble makers are even calling Pakistan their home country..and Im sorry to say that this isnt the fact because they were born in England and every detail on them says they are a british citizen.
I dont blame a race or a religion..i blame people..but im am still nervous when i go out..and i have started to see alot of individuals differently.



Im sorry for the long post. that was the last thing i have to say on the matter. From now on Im going to force all the rubbish that has come up regarding this to the back of my head.

[MysticGohan]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=orangered][size=1]I agree with BabyGirl here.

While I can to some extent understand this person's train of thought...I don't think it's justified.

I mean, when Timothy McVeigh destroyed the Federal Building, I didn't suddenly "notice" all the white Christians around me. They didn't stick out anymore than usual.

.[/color][/size] [/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=royalblue]Hell, finally, someone actually said something about Timothy McVeigh! The news is corrupting your minds and all. The news plays a dramatic part in our train of thought.. they never mentioned once about Timothy McVeigh's attack against the Federal Building. I am sure that many "other" people besides white Christians died in that horrific attack. But I guess ignorance blocks out the fact that no one else besides white Americans died on the Oklahoma bombings and on Sept 11.

You have a right to be scared, but not towards every single Arab American or anyone of a middle eastern descent. Look at it from this way, this topic is related on " someone being scared of a Muslim". I know many [b]WHITE[/b] American Muslims, and if you didn't know he was a Muslim, would you treat him differently? I would probably think not. Now, if it were a American born person who had roots leading to the middle eastern region, would you treat him differently on his color? I would think so, because he looks "different" and because he/she is from a middle eastern descent. To add on, if you knew he/she was a Muslim, I bet you would be scared. Plain ignorance plays a key factor in this issue.

If you can see through a person, then good for you. But if you can only see the color of the human being and his characteristics, then shame on you. You must've been brought up in a one sided track family.

What we need to do as a whole, is teach that not everyone is whom you believe to see, is not like everyone else. We all need to know that a numbered of Muslims actually believe that the attacks on 9/11 were the right thing to do. But for the most part, Muslims too have been affected and have much sorrow as you do, for those who died. I am sure there were a few Muslims people working there, not just Christians,Jews,Hindus,Buddhist, and ect.

Like Seph, I am too extremely pissed after reading this letter. Ignorant and racist mixed into one can bring up some harmful actions toward "their enemy". The reporters are ignorant as hell too. Each and every one of them are completly dumb. I hope you all use your thought process and actually see what I am trying to express, like so many of you did in this topic!


( Sorry if this "bringing up old topics, but I didn't have a chance to post, so I did now :))

- MG[/size][/color]

[k9*]

i just saw this thread and have to chime in.

hey transic, you forgot to post that hitler called himself a christian. :nope:

i am part of a college community, and i see a lot of other races/religions (i don't like using "race" to differentiate, bcuz we are all one race: the human race). since sept. 11, i feel i should go up to those who are of obvious arab descent and ask THEM how i can make them feel safe from any racial backlash they might get from the actions taken by those extremists.

i found this book "because we are americans" it's a collection of aol posts in reaction to the terrorists and the aftermath. i have found the feelings contained in these posts from all over to b really touching, and it has helped me to come to grips with what happened that day.

[MarkM]

all i have to say is everyone has their own oppinions and im not going to argeu with them so move on is all we can do and get back together in peace and harmoney

[GotenksSSJ343]

I agree with hot head and also just because a few or more people of a diffrent nationallty are bad dosen't mean the whole entire nationality is bad thats stero typing also to add

[Charles]

That letter represents the fear and grief bred with ignorance consuming so many people, the world-over today. The attacks on America were not part of a religious war, as Osama Bin Laden would have you believe. The attack was one of anti-Americanism. Whoever wrote that letter should realize, that we're not dealing with a war between muslims and christians-we're dealing with an attack on a nation. Does anyone honestly think that this attack was centered at one specific religion? There could have been and probably were, muslims in that building.

Over time, this ridiculous prejudice will vanish. To say that the Japanese were discriminated against during WWII, is an understatement. To say that people of Soviet lineage, were looked on with fear during the Cold War, is obviously true. The media has had a field day in misconstruing the real war at hand. They have made it seem like the world is at war with countless Bin Laden's. I say the most dangerous enemy in this "war" is the growing hysteria resulting from ignorance in our society.

[GotenksSSJ343]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crazy White Boy [/i]
[B]That letter represents the fear and grief bred with ignorance consuming so many people, the world-over today. The attacks on America were not part of a religious war, as Osama Bin Laden would have you believe. The attack was one of anti-Americanism. Whoever wrote that letter should realize, that we're not dealing with a war between muslims and christians-we're dealing with an attack on a nation. Does anyone honestly think that this attack was centered at one specific religion? There could have been and probably were, muslims in that building.

Over time, this ridiculous prejudice will vanish. To say that the Japanese were discriminated against during WWII, is an understatement. To say that people of Soviet lineage, were looked on with fear during the Cold War, is obviously true. The media has had a field day in misconstruing the real war at hand. They have made it seem like the world is at war with countless Bin Laden's. I say the most dangerous enemy in this "war" is the growing hysteria resulting from ignorance in our society. [/B][/QUOTE]

that would be a good speach