GothicScreamo...Just screaming or art?

[Nomurah!]

[B]I love all kinds of music, but I have a special place for ....what most people call screaming...From Sandpaper and Silk type music to Metal, I'm all up in it. One question always comes across my mind. Just because they scream, doesn't mean they are in with the devil, trouble-makers, or anything of that. I mean sure, Satanism is usually within the music of Screamo, Metal, Punk and other screaming types of songs, but they can't all be like that, can they? Unlike the older people....of our entire nation, I think the music is an art.

It takes a chunk out of your lungs to do this stuff, trust me. I know, me being in a band. :animesmil So, they singers work off their ***** to...get no appreciation... :animesigh

How do you feel about "Screaming" in today's music?[/B]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Kazuwa Nomura][B']I mean sure, Satanism is usually within the music of Screamo, Metal, Punk and other screaming types of songs, but they can't all be like that, can they?[B][/quote]


Um... if you can tell me of one - ONE - screamo band that even mentions Satan (because I take it that by "Satanism" you mean worshipping the Christian version of the devil and not [I]actual[/I] Satanism because no-one ever bothers to research these things before saying things about them), then I'll be impressed. Screamo generally covers emotional and personal topics (hence the whole emo thing, which is short for "emotional", in case you didn't know). Punk also rarely covers the whole Satan thing (if ever). Most Metal isn't about Satan, and the very, very small percentage that is (a good portion of Black Metal, and a few Death Metal bands) doesn't even cover actual Satanism, it simply uses the Christian version of Satan to be shocking and scary.

I think screaming in music is fine, and has absolutely nothing to do with being Gothic as you've implied. Goth music never screams (listen to the Cure and tell me if you hear a single growl coming from your speakers). If you mean Gothic Metal, then sure, there's some screaming, but they're the only type of Metal that includes Gothic culture at all.

Just for future reference, Satanists do not believe a God or a devil exist, nor that there's an afterlife. In fact, it's barely different than Humanism, the only differences being certain religious ceremonies and rituals that define it as a religion and not a philosophy. Screaming about sacrificing goats and Satan killing Christians with his pitchfork is simply a gimmick based on the Christian vision of the devil.

Argh.

[Panache]

I HATE sceaming metal. HATE it! In my school not alot of people listen to metal and don't know anything about the different types. So when one kid goes and watches headbangers ball for about 3 minutes and hears some screamer band he goes and tells the whole school about how these goth weirdo's scream on tv. The same day they see my leather metallica jacket and they see the word metal on it. NOW IM A GOTH!!!!! Also it's not art going like this AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's just annoying. So no this screamo whatever the hell is not art. It's screaming. Thats why I hate all these new "metal" bands(save av7x they rule :catgirl: ). They should take all their emo craptitude and go join an r&b band where crying like a girl makes sense.

[Nomurah!]

[B]Hmmm...good point...I think...Though, it's not really screaming...it's actually just choking your voice, you can be as calm as can be doing this stuff...Screaming always reminds me of the people running away from Godzilla. That's screaming. :animesmil

Hmm, sorry for being so...ignorant, Jakehammaren, but, I didn't say anything about Satan in the lyrics, or anything about The Cure. Though, the cure, are pretty cool... :animeswea I was talking about the band members, or singers, and such, though I don't really believe Satan is a big part of it... But, you would agree, that two common words coming out of an older person's mouth, when hearing this music are usually "devil" and "Worship" or "violent" and "Chaotic".

So, ya know, I wasn't really talking 'bout Gothic as a stereotype. Using it as the style of music. And you're right. My brother is in a band, and he does most of the picking and Screaming. He usually wears pink, blue and other stuff. He sure isn't goth, so, of course the music has nothing to do with being Goth as I've implied. [/B]

[Cat]

Screamo is not gothic. I have never see it look or act gothic. If you want gothic music listen to The Cure, HIM, and The 69 Eyes, they are gothic. Also Avenged666fold wearing a leather metallica jacket would not make you goth. If anything it would make you alittle bit of a punk, in my eyes. You see I am a goth and have seen the clothing stye of goth alot and what you have discribed is not goth. I have listen to metal a little and have not heard anything that would make them Satanists. If they saw The 69 Eyes music video Lost Boys, most old people would think that they were Satanists.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that don't go by the sterotype that people are setting in clothes, music, and life. Go above it.

[Jakehammaren]

Understood, Kazuwa, and my apologies.


[QUOTE]So when one kid goes and watches headbangers ball for about 3 minutes and hears some screamer band he goes and tells the whole school about how these goth weirdo's scream on tv.[/QUOTE]

[b]Headbanger's Ball[/b] [SIZE=4][b]RARELY EVER PLAYS METAL[/b][/SIZE]. Headbanger's ball is a crapfest dedicated to shoving diluted hardcore and nu-metal (which ISNT metal at ALL) down your throat. Last time I watched Headbanger's ball, they played Slipknot, Korn, and Hatebreed. OOPS! No Metal bands! I thought Headbanger's Ball was supposed to be a Metal show!

AND AVENGED SEVENFOLD ISN'T A METAL BAND. :animeangr

Harsh vocals can be used to good effect. The problem is, the mainstream music that [I]does[/I] use this technique is just bad hardcore and nu-crap like Slipknot and others that defile everything that is good about heavy music. You say you hate "screaming Metal", but you've probably never even heard an actual Metal band with harsh vocals before! I'm not saying this is your fault at all. It sucks because the media goes along with what sells, takes a crap on everything, and the average listener gets a massively incorrect view of what music even is.

I emplore you to try listening to some actual, real Metal and see if it changes your mind! DON'T use ANYTHING on TV, in magazines, or on any mainstream websites as reference! That's the source of the problem. PM me about it and I'll give you 3 or 4 bands that might change your mind, or visit a good Metal website like metalcrypt.com and search for styles you enjoy.

And about screaming being included as "art" along with the rest of the music, know that harsh vocals can really add alot to a band - when used correctly. Hardcore and nu-crap bands don't understand this, and that's where you're getting the idea that it's just a bunch of yelling. In those particular styles, that's all it is. Again, you need to hear some true Metal.

For example, check out one of these Metal bands and see how they incorporate harsh vocals:

[B][u]Ensiferum[/u][/B] - This is a Viking Metal band from Finland. They use the harsh vocals to great effect, mixing them very smoothly with the clean vocals and Viking chants. Check out the song "Eternal Wait" for a prime example of how this is done. You'll begin to notice that the harsh vocals make perfect sense.

[B][u]Amon Amarth[/u][/B] - Amon Amarth is a very melodic metal band from Sweden. The music conveys loads and loads of swelling riffs, melodies, and harmonies. They also have a very aggresive edge to them, making the balance between melody and heaviness an interesting one. Imagining this band without harsh vocals is difficult, as they work so very well. Check out the song "Fate of Norns" to see what I mean.

[B][u]Opeth[/u][/B] - A Swedish metal band that utterly defies classification. Opeth's intricate, epic songs often span play times that pass the 10 minute mark, and will incorporate everything from haunting clean vocals to extreme death growls, soft, soothing accoustic guitar and blistering metal riffs. Again, the harsh vocals are so perfect, they could not be done another way - and it's not just yelling. It's finely crafted and placed where it is in the song for just the right effect. Listen to the song "The Drapery Falls", and you'll understand what I mean.

Please please PLEASE take a second to check one of these bands out, as it saddens me deeply to see the name of Metal scarred by hardcore and nu-crap garbage. Metal is art. Nu-crap is basically like boy-bands who pretend to be pissed at their parents for a few extra bucks. And Headbanger's Ball is an atrocity.

Oh, and by the way: I'm really, really passionate about this. As if you couldn't tell. :animeswea

[Prons]

I'm gonna roll with "just screaming." I don't consider any of the music I listen to "art" though.

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]I can't stand screaming. I know it's supposed to be 'emotional' and that type of thing, but it's just some nutbag screaming into a microphone to me. And I actually respect the metal genre for their guitar work - which can be rather awesome - but when the vocalist kicks in with the pointless screaming about whatever (Usually something rather violent or disturbing or gimmically-evil) it just ruins it for me.

I can't stand Screamo. At all. [/COLOR]

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]Screaming is alright by me, just don't do it in my ear. A lot of band uses super-aggressive and screaming to great effect (like the ones Jake cited), and to write off the entire musical concept isn't very wise. In conclusion, most of the people in this thread are trendy wannabes. Thankyou.[/font][/color][/size]

[Nomurah!]

[B][B]Hey, Cat14...The Lost boys is such a great vid... :animeswea [/B]

Anyway, Jake, good point. As much as I love all kinds of music....Sigh* Headbangers Ball isn't exactly...the ball....for metal-fans. It's boring these days, too, so, it basically sucks for me. :animesmil I have only heard of, and heard the music of Opeth, from those three bands, but I'll be sure to look 'em up. It's true, Screamo of all types can't be justified, or whatever, by TV, magazines, or anything... The Media Lie! The media is wrong! :animeangr

I'd like it, if you'd explained a little further into why, you think it just screaming, Prons, but nevermind.

Cygnus. I respect ya, but, sigh* , you might just have to give it a try...There are a few bands that most people can like, but I doubt you would seriously try to look for a good one to you. Most people stand their ground on these kinda subjects... :animeswea

Ah, and mister D.S... A short but sweet reply, yes? Trendy Wannabes is right, but I guess I might've been one that you were stating :animesigh :animeswea It went from Green Day, to A7X, and now the trends are killing Screamo. We are doomed. [/B]

[Jakehammaren]

[QUOTE=Cygnus X-1][COLOR=Sienna]...but when the vocalist kicks in with the pointless screaming about whatever [B](Usually something rather violent or disturbing or gimmically-evil)[/B] it just ruins it for me.

I can't stand Screamo. At all. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Geez, what kind of Metal have [I]you[/I] been listening too? Sounds like someone showed you Cannibal Corpse or some gimmicky band like that - becuase Metal usually has positive empowering lyrics, or lyrics that tell an epic tale of some kind. Seriously, look more into Metal lyrics. Your concept of it is very skewed. (Again, this isn't your fault, and this isn't a personal attack on you.)

And we all know Screamo is NOT A FORM OF METAL, right? People keep mentioning them side by side, and it's to the point that the two seem to be running together... I'm just checking here.

[Panache]

[quote name='Prons']I'm gonna roll with "just screaming." I don't consider any of the music I listen to "art" though.[/quote]Amen to that. I don't know the definition of art but im pretty sure music doesn't go under that catagory.

[2010DigitalBoy]

Firstly, what the hell the gothicscreemo???

Secondly, I have to agree that screaming is very annoying ut hey, kids like what they like. Sometimes even I like to just throw on a Slipknot CD and just thrash

The problem I see is that emo sucks musically. These kids tend to have next to no talent. And they also tend to be wusses trying to sound angry but just coming off as... well... emo. I guess I just have a hard time rockin out to something belted out by some wuss in girl pants >_>

And whoever said the stuff about the demon lyrics... I think you should do a bit more research on these kinds of bands. Although undeniably there are satanic bands like say Satyricon, but they pretty much just sing about evil to seem dark and foreboding. It works, my mom loves it.

[Nomurah!]

[QUOTE=Tical]Firstly, what the hell the gothicscreemo???

Secondly, I have to agree that screaming is very annoying ut hey, kids like what they like. Sometimes even I like to just throw on a Slipknot CD and just thrash

The problem I see is that emo sucks musically. These kids tend to have next to no talent. And they also tend to be wusses trying to sound angry but just coming off as... well... emo. I guess I just have a hard time rockin out to something belted out by some wuss in girl pants >_>

And whoever said the stuff about the demon lyrics... I think you should do a bit more research on these kinds of bands. Although undeniably there are satanic bands like say Satyricon, but they pretty much just sing about evil to seem dark and foreboding. It works, my mom loves it.[/QUOTE]

Mine does too! Just so ya, know, I was thinking about what I should call Screaming music, so I came up with Gothic Screamo, :animesmil Hey, but most emo bands do have talent, but again, some don't....I've come to notice...that...some screaming singers tend to sound a little..like...Li'l Jon or rappers screaming in their music. That scares me. "Yeaah"

But, most of 'em are good, well ,to me, that is.

[Guest Heero yuy]

I listen to screamo, hardcore, metalcore, and blackmetal.

screamo isn't all screaming...i.e. senses fail or underoath.

it's mostly singing, what you listen to with all screaming would probably be hardcore i.e. symphony in peril. Jakehammeren totally knows.

and screamo is not gothic, everyone I know who listens to all that are far from goth.

and emo, I rarely seen "emo" ...it's a genre of music, but I've only seen it put on one band, and that's Taking back sunday...Dashboard, which seems to be the hated "emo" band, isn't really under emo, but alternative. There's politics in music too, so it's always good to research it.

[Viper0529]

I listen to a lot of metal, and I know a lot of people who hate metal due to the "Constant Screaming" or "Inhumanity". I believe that this is not the case at all. True, there are some bands that scream a lot (As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, etc.) but a lot of bands that dont really scream that much (Disturbed, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, The Union Underground). I believe that the main reason why a lot of people associate screaming with either hostility or lack of talent is that they truly dont understand what is going on with either the lyrics or the feelings behind the song. If they sang some "screemo" songs but instead made it more like fallout boy, it would seem so out of place, it would be unbelievable.

If you ask me, I love metal due to one reason besides kick *** guitar solo's...it is human emotion in its rawest form.

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Viper0529']I listen to a lot of metal... true, there are some bands that scream a lot (As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, etc.) but a lot of bands that dont really scream that much (Disturbed, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, The Union Underground).[/quote]

Yeah, but none of those are Metal bands. Metal does tend to have a lot of harsh vocals, but a good portion of it doesn't. It just depends what type you're into.

[Goodbye, Face]

[quote name='Heero yuy']and emo, I rarely seen "emo" ...it's a genre of music, but I've only seen it put on one band, and that's Taking back sunday...Dashboard, which seems to be the hated "emo" band, isn't really under emo, but alternative. There's politics in music too, so it's always good to research it.[/quote]

[font=trebuchet ms]If you want to be technical, there isn't any difference between Emo and Screamo. Screamo isn't a real genre, but is instead a term used to differenciate the real emo created by bands like Saetia and Neil Perry, to the curent trend of alternative rock (or even pop-rock) "emo" bands like Taking Back Sunday. I'm not dissing them, hell, I go to school with Adam Lazzara's little brother, but it's not emo, kid.

And I'm not even going to touch on the title of this thread. I'm pissed.

As for calling screaming "art," I don't really know. I believe you can do the same extreme emotions by singing. I don't understand how a band like UnderOath can scream romantic things either, that's mostly what doesn't make sense. If you love someone, don't use the same vocal technique you use to show that you want to beat someone's face in.

I think Protest the Hero and Opeth do screaming very well on the same token. They don't scream through entire songs, rather, they use it for dramatic effect (and you know that when PtH does it, it really means something due to how minimized the screaming is).

I think if you listen to the right music, you can consider it an art. But when you get down to some of the "xcore" bands, you have this problem where they really overdo it.[/font]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='RiflesAtRecess']...and Opeth do screaming very well on the same token. They don't scream through entire songs, rather, they use it for dramatic effect...[/quote]


YES! OPETH! Good going, Rifles! What a Metal thing for you to say! And you're totally right, too.

[DeadSeraphim]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Yeah, but none of those are Metal bands. Metal does tend to have a lot of harsh vocals, but a good portion of it doesn't. It just depends what type you're into.[/quote]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial][i]Jake strikes again!!![/i][/font][/color][/size]

[ZombiePowder]

I am actually into screamo alot.
Bands like:
Saosin.
From Autumn To Ashes.
Silverstein.
Thursday.
A Thorn For Every Heart.
underOATH.
A Static Lullaby.
Alexisonfire.
As Cities Burn.
Chiodos.
Emery...ect.


Check those bands out if you like Screamo/emo...

[Justin]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Yeah, but none of those are Metal bands. Metal does tend to have a lot of harsh vocals, but a good portion of it doesn't. It just depends what type you're into.[/quote]

You concept of metal is extremely purist. As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, Cannibal Corpse and most of the other 'non-metal' bands you've listed are, in fact, metal. Maybe not in the purest sense of bands such as Iron Maiden(my favorite metal band) or even more aggressive stuff like Megadeth(within my top 20), but they can't be discounted as cheap hardcore and certainly not nu-metal. They are progressed metal; metalcore, really, save Cannibal Corpse(death metal).

The metal genre rarely births any thing new that sounds like 'Priest. Most bands that come out nowadays are hybrids of various things, but that doesn't remove any iota of talent from them. The most popular hybrid of the moment being Metal and Hardcore, which equals Metalcore. It is a totally viable, totally aggressive form of, primarily, metal. If one were to look at hardcore the way you're looking at metal, metalcore has very little hardcore influence at all.

As far as talent goes into making good metalcore: First of all, I generally count talent as being within the music(ie: Not in the vocals). With that said, metalcore, like all forms of music, is open to being butchered; however, it can be done and has been done VERY well (As I Lay Dying being one example).

As far as the vocals go, when I see some of you on stage making some of those sounds like you'd find in the better 'screaming' bands out there, then I'll listen to you say it's nothing.

-Justin

[Jakehammaren]

I don't think he ever mentioned Cannibal Corpse, because I know full well they're a Metal band.

And yes, my views on Metal are very purist and very elitist (as [I]anyone[/I] on the 'Boards will tell you).

My comments on Metalcore come from this standpoint: Metalcore isn't Metal using Hardcore techniques - it's Hardcore using Metal techniques. Now I think we can all agree that Hardcore isn't Metal at all, rather it's very agressive Punk music. Punk relies on simple songwriting and chord progressions to get it's point across. Look at As I Lay Dying. While they use certain Metal techniques (dual guitar harmonies, etc.), almost every song (if not every) on their latest album is written in the same key, scale, and mode. At the core, AILD is in fact a Hardcore band that utilizes some very basic Metal techniques. To me, this doesn't qualify them as a Metal band.

And I don't think a band has to sound like Maiden or Priest to qualify as a Metal band. Hell, my favorite bands are groups like Ensiferum, Moonsorrow, Asmegin, etc., none of which sound much like the aforementioned NWOBHM legends. I only disclude bands like Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie, because frankly, there's nothing Metal about them at all.

You said that you thought that As I Lay Dying and Bleeding Through were basically like progressed Metal bands - or Metalcore. I think it's more like they're more sophisticated Hardcore bands. It's really becoming a fine line between Metalcore and Metal these days, but that's really only an issue in the massively mainstream "Metal" scene. Metalcore has become the new Hair Metal, I think. It's like band after band is writing a catchy riff and a breakdown to get a video on MTV. That's not what the spirit of Metal is about.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Jakehammaren']And I don't think a band has to sound like Maiden or Priest to qualify as a Metal band. Hell, my favorite bands are groups like Ensiferum, Moonsorrow, Asmegin, etc., none of which sound much like the aforementioned NWOBHM legends. I only disclude bands like Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie, because frankly, there's nothing Metal about them at all.[/quote]
Exactly. The reason a lot of people lump Manson and Zombie into metal though, is because the lyrics are a bit, you know, [i]not mainstream[/i]. The actual music behind the lyrics is basically hard rock, but the moment you start throwing around concepts like the Antichrist and death, people forget hard rock exists, and jump to the old "metal is only Satanist and evil, therefore {insert band} must be metal!!" stereotypes. To which I say "lollerskates, no".

Half the bands lumped inaccurately into the metal genre because of their supposed lyrical content don't even exhibit many 'evil metal' lyrics. Manson in particular has very few lyrics that are about Satan and whathaveyou (not including Antichrist Superstar as a whole, but that was a concept album - even many of the songs on that album had little to do with anything inherently evil like the antichrist though, except in a metaphorical sense). Rob Zombie's lyrics are more gimmick than actual "I will eat your mother" horrible. Then you get that whole nu metal thing, but we won't go there.

This is, of course, acting under the assumption that all metal bands sing about Satan and evil, which is an outright lie. Anyone who still thinks that though - at this board in particular - is probably due for a personal visit from Jake by now, ha.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Dragon Warrior]

I don't want to die or anything for saying this, but the really, really hardcore screaming bands don't sound like anything to me. I accept all types of music 'cause, yes, there are people out there that like it, so I'm not saying it's not music. I just want to know what they get out of it? The screaming and the instruments are so intense that I can't hear a beat. There's just monotonous noise consistantly playing over a period of time. It can't be for the lyrics 'cause you can't understand a word they say. I just want to know what that's about.