Gay Marriage and President Bush

[The13thMan]

[FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]So, i'm sure you've all heard that Bush is trying to get a new ammendment banning gay marriage. I'd just like to know what you guys think about the whole ordeal.

I've heard some people say that they believe that all the attention on gay marriage is just to distract people from issues like the war in Iraq or maybe the energy crisis we're currently in. What do you think?

Also i'd like to ask you guys what you think of President Bush. I think he comes off as a real moron when he's on tv, i can barely stand the way he talks. He's always got that ugly smile on his face and he keeps trying to crack lame jokes. My impression is that most of the world really dislikes Bush.

By the way, i'm a democrat.

Later.
[/COLOR] [/FONT]

[Cat]

I think that the Gay issue has gone way to far. Its not like these people can help what they are. Just because someone is different doesn't mean you should banned them like that. Its sick. I feel that it isn't to get are minds of the war and the power issue. Its just to get his mind off these issues. I don't care for him. But my dad likes him so I can't say stuff like that in my house. I also hate the way he talks. Every thing hes says just doesn't sound right.

[Prons]

I don't dig gay marriage or homosexuality.

I also think most people hate Bush just because they love bandwagoning. Music, mvoies, pretty much the entire media is saying "Oh that Bush is a moron hick" and the masses say "Yeah? YEAH! That Bush is so stupid!" I don't really care about politics, but I think anti-bush is just a big bandwagon.

[Fasteriskhead]

It's a cynical attempt to shore up the traditional voting bloc of the right - everyone involved in this knows how impossibly difficult it is to amend the constitution, and they're looking to have it fail nobly to score brownie points with the traditionalists. It should be remembered that in the 2004 elections Bush actually supported the idea of civil unions (in that sense following Kerry). It's a long, long way from that to amending the constition with a definition of what marriage is, so perhaps the core of the Republican party is even more in open revolt than any of us thought.

On the wider questions of gay marriage itself and Bush as a whole, I'll hold off for now.

[Papa Smurf]

It should be noted that it wasn't too long ago when blacks couldn't marry outside their race...hell, it was only in the 1960s when Segregation ended.

Blacks marrying whites was unheard of in the earlier and middle decades of the twentieth century. It was viewed as a threat to traditional marriage values.

And look what happened there.

Something to consider, eh?

[Hanabishi Recca]

I don't think Men should marry men.
Thats just... disgusting.

I mean, me being a christian, I don't think that it is good for men, or even women to marry their sex.
I don't have any good reason, besides that is the reason that Sodom was destroyed.

So, I'm obviously against it.

I will end on this statement, "Think of the children!.".

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=Hanabishi Recca]
I don't have any good reason, besides that is the reason that Sodom was destroyed.
[/QUOTE]
Not to go off on a religious tangent, but it always bothers me when people cite this as an example. Sodom was destroyed for its residents' lack of hospitality (although God had already decided to destroy it even before then; they were just being given another chance). The story has virtually nothing to do with the morality of consensual homosexual activity.

(I'd prefer not to start a Biblical debate. If you really want to respond to this point, please PM me so we can keep it out of the thread.)

Getting back on topic, I agree with Fasteriskhead. It's an brazen attempt to get the conservative base fired up... it had no hope of succeeding, and everyone involved knew this from the start, which makes the whole thing pretty darn weird, at least as far as I'm concerned. Obviously I'm not cut out for politics.

~Dagger~

[Panache]

I thin being gay is nasty. I know you are not born that way as I have a gay freind.(we were freinds befoe he became gay at least to the best of my knowlege). He said it happened slowly over time and at one point he actually did like girl's. So the way I see it is that there are two kinds of gay people.

A.The kind that turned gay over time for different reasons (prison,friends ect...)

B.The kind that has a mental defect in their mind that tells the mthey like the same sex that is treatable by medication or therapy.

Why do I think it is not possibl that you are born this way and cannot change? Simply beacuse of the fact that you can change. Many gay's that were "born that way" have gone strait for one reason or another. So it is not an irriversable defect. So to the point why shouldn't they have gay marriage? Beacuse then you would be accomidating a diasease instead of trying to cure it. Also I agree with what Prons said. People who hate on bush for the most part or just jumping on the bandwagon and trying to be rebellious (which you ahve every right to be) but you should be aware that you are still just jumping on the bandwagon. "Hardy har har that Texan talks funny." Texan walks by ," What the hell did you say im gonna make you talk funny in a minute punk." Jumps of the bandwagon and runs home in fear for dear life. :animesigh Ah there I said it.

[John]

As a Christian, I think homosexuality and bisexuality are wrong, but I certainly don't have a problem with non-Christians being gay. What reason do they have to believe it's wrong, anyway? And if they're doing it obviously without any ill intent, is it really wrong at all? So, yes, gay rights for all.

[QUOTE=Hanabishi Recca]I don't think Men should marry men.
Thats just... disgusting.[/QUOTE] And looking upon your fellow man with disgust based on something he doesn't think is wrong is very Christian, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Hanabishi Recca]I mean, me being a christian, I don't think that it is good for men, or even women to marry their sex.
I don't have any good reason, besides that is the reason that Sodom was destroyed.[/QUOTE] In Sodom, they were rapists. Doesn't that alter the circumstances a bit?

[quote name='Hanabishi Recca']I will end on this statement, "Think of the children!.".[/quote] Provide one piece of evidence that a child being raised by two people of the same sex has ever been detrimented by it at all.

[Panache]

[quote name='John']As a Christian, I think homosexuality and bisexuality are wrong, but I certainly don't have a problem with non-Christians being gay. What reason do they have to believe it's wrong, anyway? And if they're doing it obviously without any ill intent, is it really wrong at all? So, yes, gay rights for all.[/quote] I agree with you and I don't agree with you. Everyone who isn't saved is going to hell and should therefore live it up. But then again maybe if someone if domeone isn't in so deep with the lord(in his own mind at least) maybe he would be more likely to get saved. Also he is not our "brethren" if he is not saved. He is one of this world and should be treated as someone who should be saved. We should veiw all sin with disgust regardless of if it is our's or someone elses.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Avenged666fold]I thin being gay is nasty. I know you are not born that way as I have a gay freind.(we were freinds befoe he became gay at least to the best of my knowlege). He said it happened slowly over time and at one point he actually did like girl's. So the way I see it is that there are two kinds of gay people.

A.The kind that turned gay over time for different reasons (prison,friends ect...)

B.The kind that has a mental defect in their mind that tells the mthey like the same sex that is treatable by medication or therapy.

Why do I think it is not possibl that you are born this way and cannot change? Simply beacuse of the fact that you can change. Many gay's that were "born that way" have gone strait for one reason or another. So it is not an irriversable defect. So to the point why shouldn't they have gay marriage? Beacuse then you would be accomidating a diasease instead of trying to cure it. [/QUOTE]

Uh, the sheer amount of ignorance... X(

First of all, you completely misunderstood your friend's words. He was right when he said he "grew up to be gay", but only in the sense of each and every child growing up to their sexuality, whether it be straight, gay or bi. Prepubescent children aren't sexual beings, and many teenagers are still looking for their identity. Your friend's story reminds a lot of mine: I only accepted by "abnormal" sexual orientation at the age of 19. That didn't change the fact that I have always been a homosexual - even my childhood playing showed that on many occasions.

Several studies have shown that homosexuality is a result of both genes and the environment. However, several studies have reached opposite results, so it's hard to tell the truth.

There's one thing I can tell you, though, which is true: [i]you[/i] cannot know what homosexuality is, because [i]you[/i] aren't a homosexual. You can only approve it, tolerate it or condemn it. [I]You[/I] cannot define it.

What comes to the [B]banning of gay marriage[/B], I honestly believe Bush is trying to direct the attention away from his own mistakes he had made in the foreign politics. Nevertheless, because I'm not American, these things don't really concern me personally. I'm just worried about the rights of my kind - it's bad enough that there are nine countries where I would be executed just for being myself.

[DeathKnight]

[QUOTE=Hanabishi Recca]I don't think Men should marry men.
Thats just... disgusting.

I mean, me being a christian, I don't think that it is good for men, or even women to marry their sex.[/quote]

[color=crimson]That's fine, HR. You have your own moral compass that was influenced by religion. But making decisions for an entire nation based on Religious morals, even if it's a move to glean political support, is different. The latter affects a diverse audience of people numbering in the hundreds of millions, the former is just a personal point of view.[/color]

[quote name='Prons']I also think most people hate Bush just because they love bandwagoning. Music, mvoies, pretty much the entire media is saying "Oh that Bush is a moron hick" and the masses say "Yeah? YEAH! That Bush is so stupid!" I don't really care about politics, but I think anti-bush is just a big bandwagon.[/quote]

[color=crimson]Uh, noooooo... they hate him because he is a clumsy person who is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm not sure if it can be a "bandwagon" if the negative qualities he has are [b]obvious[/b].[/color]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']So to the point why shouldn't they have gay marriage? Beacuse then you would be accomidating a diasease instead of trying to cure it..[/quote]

:animesigh

[PaganAngel]

[quote name='Prons']I don't dig gay marriage or homosexuality. [/quote]

[sarcasm]Thanks for, y'know, listing reasons and stuff. Really speaks strongly about how opened minded you are.[/sarcasm]

I think this is so ridiculous. Love is love, and the government has no right to interfere with that. If I'm not much mistaken, we are all "endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and [b]the pursuit of happiness[/b]." Ah, but I guess it's not the first time our country's been hypocritical about that. Slavery rings a bell.

If it were up to me, I would leave it for the states to decide. There's absolutely no reason for Congress to step in because, simply put, gay marriage isn't hurting anyone. Bush is just diverting all the hate over Iraq and such somewhere else, trying a last-ditch effort to be a hero... but with 47% of Americans supporting gay marriage, don't you think he'd reconsider?

[Panache]

[QUOTE=Sandy]Uh, the sheer amount of ignorance... X(

First of all, you completely misunderstood your friend's words. He was right when he said he "grew up to be gay", but only in the sense of each and every child growing up to their sexuality, whether it be straight, gay or bi. Prepubescent children aren't sexual beings, and many teenagers are still looking for their identity. Your friend's story reminds a lot of mine: I only accepted by "abnormal" sexual orientation at the age of 19. That didn't change the fact that I have always been a homosexual - even my childhood playing showed that on many occasions.

Several studies have shown that homosexuality is a result of both genes and the environment. However, several studies have reached opposite results, so it's hard to tell the truth.

There's one thing I can tell you, though, which is true: [i]you[/i] cannot know what homosexuality is, because [i]you[/i] aren't a homosexual. You can only approve it, tolerate it or condemn it. [I]You[/I] cannot define it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the compliment :D He did not say he grew up to be gay. You cannot tell me what MY freind said. Also isn't that a conridiction when you say that when you are not a sexual being when you are a prepubescent child but then you say that you can be homosexual as a child. Well since you are not a sexual being you cannot have a sexual preference.

Isn't that what I said? You can have flawed genes or be brought up in that kind of environment. So what is your point?

That's true I can't and have no desire to know what it is like to be gay. And in this country most people tell me I can only
A. tolerate it
B. approve it
but I condemn it ohh your not american your a nazi communist(that is ignorant by the way). Oh and watch me define it right here

Homosexual-
The word homosexuality has acquired multiple meanings over time. In the original sense, it describes a sexual orientation characterised by lasting aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire exclusively for others of the same sex or gender. Homosexuality is usually contrasted with heterosexuality and bisexuality. The term gay is used predominantly to refer to homosexual males. Lesbian is a gender-specific term that is only used for homosexual females. The adjective homosexual is also used for same-sex sexual relations between persons of the same sex who are not gay or lesbian. Three major forms of homosexual relationships are proposed by anthropologists: egalitarian, gender-structured, and age-structured. Of these, one is usually dominant in a given society at a given time. (See Forms below.) As there are different biological, historical and psychosocial components to sex and gender, no single label or description will fit all individuals.




Oh and by the way if you wanna see why it's a defect and not just another way to be try to stick your private part into another like private part and see if thats the way that puzzle goes. XD

[Caine]

My thoughts:
The amendment has almost no chance of passing, so I think it is meant as a distraction. We're here talking about it. Consider me distracted, Mr President, I'm not thinking about the NSA, Iraq, Iran, the environment, or the estate tax at all.

Gay marriage. Okay, so two other people go and have a happy monogamous relationship. Why is this my business?
"think of the children" defense. Okay, so children see that we're not hypocritical bigots. Weren't hypocrites and bigots the two types of people Jesus admonished and corrected the most? If you mean think of children they might adopt, that's a slightly different issue, but assuming they are allowed to adopt, why is that bad.
Sodom has already been covered.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" is probably the best thing I can say to those who want to condemn it, which is especially fitting since this is called the Defense of Marriage Amendment in a country with what divorce rating again? I think its over 50%, but I could be wrong.
Jesus welcomed in the sinners. He didn't force them, he welcomed them to change. If you are a Christian (here I literally mean a follower of Christ, I don't care about denomination or anything else) shouldn't you follow his example?
Fianlly, I'm for civil rights. They are citizens, they deserve at least respect under the law.

edit: just looked more closely at Avenged's posts, felt some things needed addressing

First of all, a flaw in the genes is a mutation. Anything else isn't a flaw, genetically speaking.

On the judgement day, the Lord will judge us by what standards? How we treat the lesast of his people, or whether or not we are gay?
God tells us not to judge, so you condemn a group of people. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, an many more do not believe in the same religion you do. Will you condemn them for not following God's word as well? If you claim homosexuality is an affliction, the why do you crusade against it? Shouldn't you care for the ill?

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]When Stephen Harper was elected in Canada, I thought one of the first (of many) mistakes he would make would be to re-illegalize Gay Marriage. Much to my surprise, Bush Jr. has left the issue largly alone (In fact, the only thing he's done at all is cause the economy to plummet... but can't win em all, right?), and I like it that way.

It's not even a matter of being homophobic or not, it's a matter of equality and tolerance. Those two words are tossed around a lot these days, and a lot of the time they're not used properly, but basically we could use both of those right now. Even if you don't like gay people, why should they have less rights than you? It's illogical. It's exactly what happened with Women and what happened with Blacks. Havn't we learned yet that everyone deserves equal rights?

I know a lot of Christians don't like gays by default - but who gave you the right to decide what other people should believe, or how they should act, or what they should be allowed to do? Everyone should have equal rights, no matter what you think of them individually.

It's just logical, people.

(BTW, don't give me that 'homosexuality is a disease' garbage, kthnxbi.)[/COLOR]

[kalon]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']I know you are not born that way as I have a gay freind.[/quote]That is offensive. You are not gay, and your friend does not represent every gay person in the world. You do not know how people are from the time they are born, and there are many reasons for people to come out later in life.
[quote name='Avenged66fold]So it is not an irriversable defect. So to the point why shouldn't they have gay marriage? Beacuse then you would be accomidating a diasease instead of trying to cure it.[/QUOTE]Homosexuality is not a disease. Homosexuals are not in any way defective. You cannot cure it. You do not have to like it, but do not write it off as a disorder.[QUOTE=Avenged666fold']People who hate on bush for the most part or just jumping on the bandwagon and trying to be rebellious (which you ahve every right to be) but you should be aware that you are still just jumping on the bandwagon.[/quote]That is not necessarily true. There are plenty of people who dislike Bush for pure political reasons and not because it is a fad. In my opinion, no one with a complete working brain should start bashing a country's leader because it is a fad, but because they have differing opinions.
[quote name='John'] As a Christian, I think homosexuality and bisexuality are wrong, but I certainly don't have a problem with non-Christians being gay. What reason do they have to believe it's wrong, anyway? And if they're doing it obviously without any ill intent, is it really wrong at all? So, yes, gay rights for all.[/quote]I believe it is fine for anyone to be straight or gay or bisexual regardless of religion, but I would just like to thank you for being very respectful and open minded.

There are a very few non-religious reasons as to why gay marriage could cause a problem in the government, but I have not seen any of them on this thread. This is America (unless you are a user in another country, obviously). I see no problem with gay marriage. Your sexual preference does not make a difference on who you are as a person. I was raised to accept all people, and I hate to sound cheesy, but I am glad we have differences.

In the United States, you are lucky enough to have freedom of religion. This includes not following certain religions or certain aspects of a religion. I mean no disrespect to the Christians who are against homosexuality, but you are not allowed to force your fellow man to worship, believe, or act in the same way as you. We are supposed to be equals, and although you may not accept homosexuality, I have this to say: Get over it. Homosexuality is not causing a decline in morals or the breakdown of the family home or hurting the "sanctity of marriage." You do not have to like it, but gay people deserve the same rights as everyone else in the U.S.

There is a 66% divorce rate, marriages are more legal contract than holy ceremony, and the family structure is not as stable as it used to be. There is no evidence linking this to homosexuality. Men and women who cheat, abusive spouses/parents, and contrdicting morals are, in my short years of experience, the reason behind this. If two men or two women love each other enough to commit to each other in every sense, spiritual and legal, then let them.

I fully support gay rights, but I also support free speech. You may think whatever you want to think, believe what you want to believe. But you must let others think and believe and act in the way they choose, as well. White male Christians are not the only people allowed freedom and choices anymore. Homosexuality is not hurting you. You do not have to accept it, but you cannot stop them from having the same rights.

There is no reason for Bush to ban gay marriage. It very well could be a ploy to curry favor with the far right-wing RepublicansI am not exactly a fan of his because he made many decisions in running the country I disagree with. I am not completely democrat, not completely republican. Just someone with very strong opinions on certain subjects.

***I have been typing for a really long time, so there have been several more posts. This specifically got me:[QUOTE=Avenged666fold]
Oh and by the way if you wanna see why it's a defect and not just another way to be try to stick your private part into another like private part and see if thats the way that puzzle goes. XD[/QUOTE]That is one of the most vulgar, offensive posts I have ever seen on OB. There is more to love than sex. I cannot express how much I am offended by that statement without lowering myself, so I will shut up, which is not the worst advice ever issued.

[Panache]

[QUOTE=Cygnus X-1]
It's not even a matter of being homophobic or not, it's a matter of equality and tolerance. Those two words are tossed around a lot these days, and a lot of the time they're not used properly, but basically we could use both of those right now. Even if you don't like gay people, why should they have less rights than you? It's illogical. It's exactly what happened with Women and what happened with Blacks. Havn't we learned yet that everyone deserves equal rights?

[/QUOTE] Ok to start of comparing what happened to black people and what is happening to gay people are entire solar sytems apart. Black people where enslaved. You show me a plantation of gay slvaes in america then maybe ill think about putting them on the same level. Also isn't marriage between a man and a woman? So wouldn't giving gay people something like it but not exactly the same thing be equal? I mean really there not an equal couple. They lack the ability to make children there are laws in marriage about children. So the laws don't apply to them? Well then that's not equal is it?

[kalon]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']They lack the ability to make children there are laws in marriage about children. So the laws don't apply to them? Well then that's not equal is it?[/quote]
I would just like to point out that many straight couples, for whatever reason, are not able to have children, and they are allowed to get married. The inability to have children does not discount you for marriage. Would you say to an infertile person, "I'm sorry, but since you cannot have kids, we find you defective, so you cannot get married" ? I certainly hope not.

[Albert Flasher]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']Ok to start of comparing what happened to black people and what is happening to gay people are entire solar sytems apart. Black people where enslaved. You show me a plantation of gay slvaes in america then maybe ill think about putting them on the same level. Also isn't marriage between a man and a woman? So wouldn't giving gay people something like it but not exactly the same thing be equal? I mean really there not an equal couple. They lack the ability to make children there are laws in marriage about children. So the laws don't apply to them? Well then that's not equal is it?[/quote]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Uhh... what? The fact that black people were enslaved was not a cause but a symptom - a symptom of the disease of ignorant bigotry. White people thought black people were sub-human, and thus were enslaved, leading to the discrimination and segregation that would go until the Civil Rights Movment and Martin Luthar King etc. The plague of ignorance is just as bad now as it was then.

No, where does it say marriage is between man and a woman? Originally, marriage was designed so that men could have women as property. Marriage was a disgusting thing, a buisnes transaction that had absolutely nothing to do with love - but that's changed, at least in parts of the world, hasn't it? Why can't men be allowed to marry men and women marry women? There is no reason, other than you're personal opinion - and personal opinions should not govern nations.[/COLOR]

[Caine]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']Ok to start of comparing what happened to black people and what is happening to gay people are entire solar sytems apart. Black people where enslaved. You show me a plantation of gay slvaes in america then maybe ill think about putting them on the same level. Also isn't marriage between a man and a woman? So wouldn't giving gay people something like it but not exactly the same thing be equal? I mean really there not an equal couple. They lack the ability to make children there are laws in marriage about children. So the laws don't apply to them? Well then that's not equal is it?[/quote]


Please think before posting. There are heterosexual couples who are physcially incapable of having children, shall we ban them from marrying? The idea of whether or not marriage is only between a man and a woman isa what we're debating. You can't start a proof assuming the theorum you're trying to prove, you have to get to it from some other means.
How about this, only Jews can complain about rights, because we didn't through blacks into ovens? Just because someone else once had it worse doesn't mean that we should ignore current bigotry. We say people deserve equality, we should give them equality.

Seriously, nothing in that post was well though out, you really need to think about our arguments and not just give your first reaction.

[kalon]

[quote name='Cygnus X-1][COLOR=Sienna']No, where does it say marriage is between man and a woman? Originally, marriage was designed so that men could have women as property. Marriage was a disgusting thing, a buisnes transaction that had absolutely nothing to do with love - but that's changed, at least in parts of the world, hasn't it? Why can't men be allowed to marry men and women marry women? There is no reason, other than you're personal opinion - and personal opinions should not govern nations.[/COLOR][/quote]
Exactly. And many straight couples abuse the so-called "sanctity" of marriage through cheating and spousal abuse. It seems as if marriage is about only legality these days with no reference to love, but it has not been cause by the gender of your partner, rather how you act while in the relationship.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=SeaGreen] marriage has changed drastically through out the years: [URL=http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5692/marriage019qz.jpg][COLOR=SeaGreen][B][U]Marriage[/U][/B][/COLOR][/URL] [/COLOR][/QUOTE]Just the same old story when it comes to marriage or other forms of discrimination. If we can?t stop one thing it seems people have to find something they can oppose.[QUOTE=Prons]I also think most people hate Bush just because they love bandwagoning. [/QUOTE]49% of the population did not vote for Bush in the last presidential election. I?d hardly call that ?bandwagoning? I?ve never cared for Bush as I often disagree with his political views. Not just because others are [I]doing it[/I]. [QUOTE=Sandy]What comes to the [B]banning of gay marriage[/B'], I honestly believe Bush is trying to direct the attention away from his own mistakes he had made in the foreign politics. [/quote]I agree, Bush is very unpopular these days and this attempt, which was doomed from the start, is nothing more than an attempt to make religious and conservative people happy.

The thing that bother?s me the most about the whole idea of making gay marriage illegal by amending the constitution is this:

[INDENT]"One of the most common statements from the "Religious Right" is that they want this country to "[B][I]return to the Christian principles on which it was founded[/I][/B]". However, one only needs to do a little research into American history to discover that this statement is a lie. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not Men of Christianity. They were Deists." [I]the rest is [/I][URL=http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html][COLOR=RoyalBlue][U]Here[/U][/COLOR][/URL] [/INDENT]
The whole point was that they were trying to get away from religion, to keep any religion from making the claim of being the official religion. From deciding what others could and could not worship or believe. Banning gay marriage is nothing more than another form of discrimination. They lost the battle on denying women rights, blacks the right to marry and interracial marriage so now they are attempting to deny yet another form of marriage... And distract from the fact that Bush in many ways is incompetent. [/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]I was personally dreading when this nasty little topic would rear it's ugly head again, as all it does is prove a divisive issue between the religious right and liberal left. There is no winning either side of this debate because generally neither side will budge on their opinions, and why should they if they feel they're correct.

Personally I oppose granting homosexual marriage on religious grounds, I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and so my major objections to the idea of granting a same-sex couple the right of marriage stems from the fact that I believe the institution of marriage to be a purely religious practice between two members of the opposite sex. Now while this may sound hypocritical to those who feel I'm not being "Christian" and I really do dislike it when people make those kinds of comments because they're as based in ignorance as people describing homosexuality as a curable disease, the opposition to homosexual marriage comes directly from the Holy Father himself, and was staunchly opposed by his predecessor Pope John Paul II. Again this may simply sound like a case of regurgitation, in that I'm simply repeating the line of the Church but I happen to agree wholeheartedly with the line being taken, in that it is my religious belief that such a perversion of the holy institution is wrong.

On a slightly more secular level, I oppose homosexual marriage coming into the Republic of Ireland because it would mean I would be legally obliged to accept that such an custom would be right in the face of my own beliefs. The very fact our own Justice Minister is attempted to sneak the laws in without a referendum by the population, because he knows it would be soundly beaten, is equally disturbing as it indicates the beliefs of the majority of the country are secondary to the wished of the Minister for Justice. Those facts aside, it seems to be rather more distasteful today to be a practicing member of Catholicism as to be homosexual.

I don't oppose homosexual rights, or rather that is to say I bear no ill-will towards people who are homosexual, but the idea that they wish to distort one of the major institutions of many religions to suit themselves seems just as wrong as denying them that right in the first place. If this is really about giving them the same legal rights as a married heterosexual couple then that's another issue, but if I must I will protest any attempts for a gay couple to degrade a church in Ireland with their so-called marriage ceremony.[/SIZE]

[DeathKnight]

[QUOTE=Avenged666fold]That's true I can't and have no desire to know what it is like to be gay. And in this country most people tell me I can only
A. tolerate it
B. approve it
but I condemn it ohh your not american your a nazi communist(that is ignorant by the way).[/quote]

[color=crimson]Noooo, not quite. Condemn it like a barking, unintelligent, bigoted buffoon (as you are doing) and, at the most, you are classified as 'an amusing sideshow attraction' which, in ranking, is right below 'the village idiot'.

Your definition are not even your own words. That's.. the opening paragraph on [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality]Wikipedia's entry for Homosexuality[/url], word for word, copied and pasted. <_<; [/color]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']Ok to start of comparing what happened to black people and what is happening to gay people are entire solar sytems apart. Black people where enslaved. You show me a plantation of gay slvaes in america then maybe ill think about putting them on the same level. Also isn't marriage between a man and a woman? So wouldn't giving gay people something like it but not exactly the same thing be equal? I mean really there not an equal couple. They lack the ability to make children there are laws in marriage about children. So the laws don't apply to them? Well then that's not equal is it?[/quote]

[color=crimson]Again, you're [i]almost[/i] understanding but not quite. Black people and homosexuals were/are both persecuted for matters that are pretty much irrelevant- skin color for one and sexual preference for the other.

Marriage takes many forms throughout the world, Avenged. Monogamous unions are not a universal trend so, basically, what 'marriage' is can differ greatly depending on the culture involved.

I'm not even sure what you are ranting about. I've never heard of laws about children, or it being required that you can procreate, lol.[/color]