The Complaint

[Charles]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1'] I'm just getting a bit weary of this entire members against moderators and administrators business. It was ridiculous to start with.[/size][/quote]

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[Dragon Warrior]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1]In addition, [B]you don't need to have 'special powers' to contribute to OB[/B']. Start a great RPG. Write a great story. Create a new concept that we might all use (Banner/Avatar Orphanage, Awarded Titles, etc).[/size][/quote]

That's what I said previously :P You don't need to be a mod or admin to change OB. It's a simple concept. But I have to agree making specific new "special groups" won't solve much. It's just a flashy name.

And I love [b]Life Of Brian[/b], Charles :^D

[John]

Some of the points I'm about to make have been made by others already, but they need reiteration anyway.

[b]Un.[/b] OB isn't starting to get "run by n00bs". And stop saying "n00bs", by the way. It lost all charm and cleverness by the second time people started saying it to distinguish newbies that they didn't like.

[b]Deux. [/b]OB doesn't need you to cabal together into a secret society and fix it. Aside from that, you couldn't if it did.

[b]Trois.[/b] Why is this thing a "secret", and why are you all getting your panties in a bunch that Annie told people what it was? You say it's because if people found out about it, they'd think it was stupid? Of course we would, it is.

You don't want to actually help OB, nor do you have it's good in mind. If you did, you'd applaud Joe for at least posting [i]something[/i], whether you agreed with it or not. Keeping silent about it is contrary to the obvious logic that supposedly supports this little club. But no, it's obviously just an immature excuse to feel even more superior to those despised little "n00bs", and to justify your bitching about them (and about pretty much anything else that springs to mind at the time, it would seem), because you're in on a [i]secret.[/i] At least Ezekiel had the sense to realize how insipid this was.

[Zen]

[color=navy][size=1]

Here we are back again talking about the members of MAMA wanting to be Mods, which is completely false.

We never wanted that for ourselves. I don't want to be a mod, and I don't want to be completely against the Mods. I'll come out since JJ has. Viva Otaku was my original creation along with AC!D!C . The two groups simply turned out to have similar causes in mind and came together. So then it became Viva Otaku/MAMA. Neither group's members want to become Mods. That's not the intention of our group.

I won't waste time typing up the cause of our group, as it has already been stated mutiple times. I just want it to be known we're not trying to be Semi-Mods or become full Mods. I don't know why this has been brought up again.

John. Look at Ezekiel's sig again. Four of our member's have posted here, along with me. Maybe it was secret for the fact that we didn't want our issues to become public. Maybe it was because we originally intended for a more subtle and quite approach to our complaints. Maybe AC!D!C and I simply wanted to voice our opinions and not everybody liked them.

Alot of people may believe our intentions to be stupid. But our member's obviously agree, and those were the only people originally meant to know of our intentions for those reasons, because not everybody would agree with them. Heh. Things got messed up. Big deal. It isn't going to change the way we feel. And we hold no ill-intentions for anybody, once more.



[/color][/size]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]This doesn't have to be complicated, really.

If people have complaints, I am happy to hear them and to consider them, especially if they are presented in a respectful way.

The original post in this thread wasn't particularly fair, because it basically dragged a few people through the mud in an insulting way - there was no constructive criticism there, only bashing of individuals. I don't really tend to respond well to that, because I don't think it's nice to rudely bash people in a public forum.

It is possible to make specific complaints in a respectful manner and that's what I think people should do.

It's fine to form groups or whatever you want to do - that's been happening on OB since the dawn of time. But I wasn't even aware of any of these groups until now and I'm the Site Director - so how effective have they really been anyway? lol

None of that stuff really matters; the best way to solve problems is to discuss them openly and to find solutions. That's what I'm prepared to do and I'm happy to explain why we do what we do. I'm also happy to talk about what we are doing to improve things.[/font]

[quote]MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members). Honestly, I did go through an angst stage that I'd been here for a long time, and felt I didn't get the recognition I felt I deserved. Over the past six months or so, I just don't care anymore. [/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I just think the whole concept of the group is absurd, as it's been explained to me in this quote.

Such a group has to understand how they appear to other people - especially given the original post in this thread. The original post's tone was noteably rude in certain areas and it offered [i]nothing[/i] constructive. There were no suggestions or alternatives given. Instead, it was a whining session - and a highly unfair one, at that.

What I see here is really hypocrisy. Some older members claim that they are only concerned about quality. The original post in this thread does not reflect that. It comes across as being more interested who has what status, who has how many posts and so on. To me, that ideology sounds like the sort of thing we [i]don't[/i] want to see at OB. That's what we've always been trying to get away from...I wouldn't want a return to that way of thinking. That would truly flush OB down the toilet.

The only real difference these days is that we have actually gotten away from that in many respects. Members are turned into Moderators when we feel they [i]deserve it[/i]. They don't get there by some personal drive or whatever - they get there by demonstrating strong quality and activity on the site. We don't discriminate based on age or gender, even though certain older members seem to [i]want[/i] to exclude people based on these arbitrary factors.

As I said, I welcome a frank discussion about the state of the site. And I have complained about certain things myself, as you will have seen in my posts within this forum.

What I really don't welcome is a juvenile "us versus them" approach. That's not how I see it and I would hope that's not how others see it either. That kind of approach is not going to gain my attention at all. It's only going to cause problems.

Instead of forming secret groups that don't really achieve anything (considering [i]none[/i] of these groups have ever come to me to discuss anything until now), it might be wiser to simply create threads here that provide constructive criticism as opposed to accusatory whining.[/font]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][quote name='Sandy]I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it seems that many members (and mods alike) in here have a hard time taking in negative feedback about this boards. As the first two posters said, this thread is not meant as the personal attack against [I]all[/I] moderators as some people have interpreted it. I don't agree with many things they said, though - I see Aaryanna and Ozy as good and diligent mods, for instance - but they still have the right to voice out their opinions.[/QUOTE]Thank you. ^_^ My biggest objection to what the original poster put up (which I?ve already addressed) was the implication that being younger meant you were incapable and undeserving of the opportunity to contribute to the site. And since that includes far more than myself, I felt it was unfair to give the impression that the contributions of younger members don?t count because of their age. Or because of how long they have been a member. [QUOTE=Athena][size=1]MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members). Honestly, I did go through an angst stage that I'd been here for a long time, and felt I didn't get the recognition I felt I deserved. Over the past six months or so, I just don't care anymore.[/size][/QUOTE]That?s kind of sad that there is a belief that to be recognized you have to be a mod. o_O I can easily think of many members who are outstanding for their contributions to the site. It may not have been public, but the recognition was there. Take Gavin for instance; when I first joined I was impressed by how polite and well spoken he is. Or Sandy and his tireless devotion to RPG?s that he?s organized. I followed OtakuBoards Survivor from the very beginning to the very end. And then there are the artists like DW and Ezekiel and Keyblade Wielder just to name a few. There are plenty more that I recognize on sight for their wonderful work and contributions. [QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]Alright Annie seeing as you basically just exposed everyone of us in the group, including those of us like myself who only joined MAMA last week and didn't notice the thread until about five minutes ago, I'll speak up.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]I may not have known what MAMA stood for, but viva otaku? Considering the concerns that have been brought up about post quality in the past few months, it was pretty obvious that viva otaku stood for some type of reform for the boards. Just having the titles in your signatures has already had you partially exposed from the very beginning. [QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1']Now for those Moderators and/or Administrators who are about to jump down my throat I should remind them that the group was only ever against those Moderators and Administrators whom we felt were not doing their job, Bio was the first one raised although I must admit I do not use the Underground enough to have noticed. A lot of you do great jobs regardless of what ages you are or how many posts you have, however there are those of you who simply do not do the jobs we expect from someone in your position, and because we needed somewhere independent to discuss those we felt were not up to the task it was obvious we needed to go off-site to do it.[/SIZE][/quote]No need to do something like that. But I do want to make a clarification here. It?s one thing to say that a moderator doesn?t do what you expect of them, but last time I checked, it?s not possible to read someone?s mind. It goes without saying that there is a lot of behind the scenes and pm?s going on in relation to doing moderating duties. I know I run to Desbreko when I have a question. ^_^ But it honestly sounds like you are assuming that the moderators who are not living up to your expectations are in fact doing nothing. Did you ever try to confirm that?

Unless someone comes along and says hey! I think you are missing this I and any other moderator will never know if others are unhappy with how we do things. And like Ozy mentioned with the problem thread, members had been warned, some had been banned and others improved. The original poster assumed she had done nothing when in fact she had. I?m just saying that it?s not always obvious that something is in fact being done. And to say someone isn?t living up to your expectations, well I already mentioned it; we can?t read your mind so we honestly don?t know what your expectations are. James and Desbreko and other administrators have clearly outlined what they expect and many of us do our best to follow those guidelines. [QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]Those of you who feel this group is somehow a stupid idea, or an Oldie-only club for those who feel they were passed over for Modship are entitled to your opinions, but I personally say you're wrong on every account. We are a group who were dedicated to improving the genuine quality of the site on the quiet, so that people like Joe wouldn't have to create these kinds of threads in order to see positive changes. Unfortunately thanks to Annie's little out-burst we won't be able to do that any more, but perhaps with more time we would have been able to do some good work.

There genuinely are things wrong with the way OB is run, we're desperately short of Moderators in some areas, most notably the Arena which has descended into a condition not seen in years. I don't blame Sarah, but I reported a thread over a week ago that still hasn't been locked, the Arena has never had so few mods, not in five years and we feel that something needs to be done now rather than after "the coming update".

So Annie, well done, I salute and applaud to your destruction of a group that only ever had the good of OB at heart.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]Considering what MAMA stands for, it does make your club easy to misunderstand. o_O I don?t think it?s stupid, but the title is very misleading. The other title viva otaku is just fine but MAMA makes no sense to me.

You?ve kind of lost me here, are you saying that change can?t be made unless it?s in secret? I don?t see that Annie has destroyed anything. I always got the impression that you cared for the boards whether or not you belonged to a club and you?ve never been secretive about that care before. If your group is ineffective due to being known then in all honesty it?s not much of a group if it can?t take a little scrutiny. [/COLOR]

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]Hey, I just have to ask, but OtakuBoards is still a [b]FORUM[/b] right? Cause I'm getting this whole corrupt 3rd world country vibe here, and I just wanted to make sure that I'm [i]on the level[/i], as it were.[/font][/color][/size]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]And just out of interest, I do have a question to members of these groups. You said that they were secret groups...if this is the case, how did you ever expect them to achieve anything?

How can a group achieve something if nobody knows about it? lol[/font]

[Zen]

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=navy][size=1]


It was never the intention of this thread for [b]MAMA[/b], [b]Viva Otaku[/b], or any other group to be revealed, as it was a matter that we had hoped to keep to ourselves for sometime and resolve our issues in a much more subtle manner.

[/color][/size][/QUOTE]
[color=navy][size=1]

We eventually wished to voice our opinions in a more subtle way in the future, as I said before. Possibly and preferably through a PM. Atleast, that was my original wish.[/color][/size]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Well, this is what happens. lol

I think your PM to me really outlines the core issues and I think my response is pretty frank. I would be happy to post that PM with my response in this thread if you would like the end result to be clear to everyone.[/font]

[Zen]

[color=navy][size=1]

I sent you a response just to clear a few things up I think you misunderstood. If you wish though, I'd be happy to have that posted aslong as you read and reply to my newer message first.

I will say this.

Viva Otaku was started as a private group whom, along with MAMA, wanted to privately discuss their views and complaints about the current state the OBs are in. Once we all had come to a single, reasonable conclusion, we originally wished to contact James via PM. The signature tags were for MAMA, to promote itself and gain members. As for Viva Otaku, it was so members could identify one another and a way for James to see how many members actually supported our views once they were voiced to him.

Short and simple, we got outted when we weren't ready and in a way that neither group head actually preferred. I'm not pointing fingers at Athena, but she is not a member of Viva Otaku or MAMA, atleast to my knowledge. I'm happy that she is supportive to us, but I don't appreciate how she brought our names into it or how she represented us in her post.

Things went a wry. Oh well. I'm currently discussing thing with James on behalf of Viva Otaku so that we can get things cleared up. Once he posts the PM, I'm sure things will be a bit more clear and we will receive much less hate from the other members.

-[b]The Boss[/b][/color][/size]

[2010DigitalBoy]

Waitaminute... there's a behind-the-scenes uprising on OB? WTF? Seriously people, go get a girlfriend or something! I can't believe the friggin Otakuboards has political parties. That's madness.

And anyway, what on Earth good is it doing behind-the-scenes? Wouldn't you have to take action if you wanted reform? Maybe I just don't know enough about the group.

I am reminded of when I was mad about being banned the forst time and wanted to plot a scheme to take over and rule OB... those were the days XD

Anywho, I think the mods of OB are fine and upstanding and do their job, and should not be descriminated against by how long they've been here. EQUALITY PEOPLE, LIVE IT.

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=navy][size=1]

I sent you a response just to clear a few things up I think you misunderstood. If you wish though, I'd be happy to have that posted aslong as you read and reply to my newer message first.

I will say this.

Viva Otaku was started as a private group whom, along with MAMA, wanted to privately discuss their views and complaints about the current state the OBs are in. Once we all had come to a single, reasonable conclusion, we originally wished to contact James via PM. The signature tags were for MAMA, to promote itself and gain members. As for Viva Otaku, it was so members could identify one another and a way for James to see how many members actually supported our views once they were voiced to him.

Short and simple, we got outted when we weren't ready and in a way that neither group head actually preferred. I'm not pointing fingers at Athena, but she is not a member of Viva Otaku or MAMA, atleast to my knowledge. I'm happy that she is supportive to us, but I don't appreciate how she brought our names into it or how she represented us in her post.

Things went a wry. Oh well. I'm currently discussing thing with James on behalf of Viva Otaku so that we can get things cleared up. Once he posts the PM, I'm sure things will be a bit more clear and we will receive much less hate from the other members.

-[b]The Boss[/b][/color][/size][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]teh intarnets - srs business[/font][/color][/size]

[Zen]

[color=navy][size=1]
[B]Tical[/b]

Suppose you read the more recent replies before jumping to conclusions.

Firstly, the way you put things makes me want to say things that I'm sure I'd regret.

We're not a behind the scenes political group. We are just a couple of like minded people talking about our own opinions. We are all aware that the OBs are just a Message Boards when it comes down to it. Albeit, they are THE message boards for me.

We're not discriminatting against anybody. Voicing opinions.

I'm through with defending this by my self. I appreciate Gavin, JJ, and the others for adding their opinions. For now though, I'll just let James post our PM and I'll continue speaking with him privately as I had originally intended. This really only concerns him and Desbreko anyways.

Peace and Love,

[b]-The Boss[/b][/color][/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]Well first of all I really don?t see a problem with members having a group to discuss concerns they have about the boards among themselves. The only issue I have is that the original post was terribly unfair and insulting to a few people. A session of simply bashing a few individuals with no constructive criticism or any suggestions or alternatives offered. And the primary reason, the faulty belief that post count, age and years of membership somehow makes others better than other members and therefore more deserving when it comes to staff selection.

The Boss and Gavin and others have mentioned that it?s not about becoming a moderator and I do believe you when you say that. But since AC!D!C?s post primarily focused on the belief that moderators should be replaced because they are young, have low post count or haven?t been a member for a year, well I?m sure you can see why people would think the group is primarily after a moderator position. And the meaning of MAMA doesn?t help that either as it implies you are against all of the current staff. It doesn?t help that AC!D!C assumed that Ozy was lazy and doing nothing. In all honestly the title viva otaku makes more sense and like Aaryanna I had noticed it and just assumed that all of you were concerned about improving the quality of the boards.

In all honesty I think the secrecy is doing more damage to your group than good. And though this thread got off to a shaky start, I think it?s actually better that the whole issue is out in the open instead of behind closed doors. And Gavin you say that some moderators aren?t living up to your expectations, but like Aaryanna already mentioned we can?t read your mind. ^_~ Like her I go by the guidelines that James and the others provided. It?s never fun to be told you are incompetent without any reason other than you are too young or haven?t been a member for very long. [/COLOR]

[Sandy]

I'm all for open discussion, that's why I've created several threads here instead of just PM'ing admins or starting up "secret societies". If I see a problem, I want to know if anybody else sees the same problem, and whether it really [I]is[/I] a problem.

That's the whole issue of this thread in my opinion: somebody sees a problem in something that isn't a problem to others. Does not that person have the right to voice out their concern? Sure, it could've been done in a more polite or less whiny way, but that's the cost of being frank - you will in many cases come of as rude.

I hope that AC!D!C didn't believe that this thread would instantly change anything, but now that dust is settling (as vicky put it), we can see that this thread has lead to open and honest discussion about the [I]real[/I] problems of OB - like the lack of moderators and arrogant attitudes of some of the older members.

Letting off steam publicly was good in this case, I believe it purified the air somewhat. This wouldn't've happened unless AC!D!C, The Boss, Athena and the others hadn't come out in the open on what was weighing their minds.

[Delta]

[COLOR=#656446][SIZE=1]What the ****?!? Stop nitpicking on the acronym "MAMA", 'kay? If you think anyone of you has got a [i]lovelier[/i] name for them, go set up a naming contest, why don't you?

And if anyone still insists on further discussion about the name of this particular organization and the alignment of its members, remember that the membership of OtakuBoards isn't 100% otaku.[/SIZE]

Ehrm.

[COLOR=#35425E]Now, [b]Overmod[/b], do you really work 'em mods hard? I've noticed that when some members become mods, they become more [i]withdrawn[/i] from the community. There's little interaction beyond friendly reminders and locked threads. I can only begin to imagine how difficult it is to run this place, but at the end of the day mods are only human. No matter how much trust or confidence we give them, they can't do everything, yeah?

I really think it's time for a new batch of mods. Now more than ever.[/COLOR]

[SIZE=1]And to save me the trouble of editing this post, I am [i]not[/i] fishing for a position in the staff. Bless your poor misguided soul if you thought otherwise.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#656446]
[SIZE=1]And to save me the trouble of editing this post, I am [i]not[/i] fishing for a position in the staff. Bless your poor misguided soul if you thought otherwise.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

It's not a very misguided assumption in my opinion. You say "replace the mods" but because you don't really give any names of who you'd want to see in their steads, the natural conclusion is that because [I]you[/I] seem to know best, [I]you[/I] should become one (or at least the other MAMA members).

You can deny it all you want, but there's something called "reading between the lines", you know?

[James]

[QUOTE=James][QUOTE=The Boss]

Hello James.

I'd first like to apologize for any trouble the proceedings in that particular thread have caused you. The thread was originally meant to voice the personal opinions of myself, AC!D!C, and another member who never posted and whose name I will leave out. AC!D!C is a bit of a hot head at times, he's a very raw person, so he has a hard time voicing his opinion in a delicate manner. That's just him, so please don't penalize him on that.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't really need to penalize him. I think he has penalized himself by ranting like that. Other members have posted and I think that speaks for itself.[/font]

[quote=The Boss]
As for me and the members of Viva Otaku, I take responsibility for anything they have said or done. That group was created by me and it's members are my responsibility. MAMA, I was a member of, so I shall take responsibility for that aswell. But here are my reasons for these groups. There are two things.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]As I said in the thread, these groups were apparently secret - how, then, were they supposed to achieve anything? I only knew about their purpose today. Considering that I am the only one who can make radical policy changes on this site, you would think that it would be wiser to approach me directly.

So the groups have actually achieved nothing, other than perhaps annoying a few people. lol

A mature discussion with constructive criticism is fine. But ranting of the kind we saw in that first post is probably not so good.[/font]

[quote]
One, I simply just didn't feel comfortable with the fact that there are Moderators who are younger than I both physically and as a member. It was nothing against them personally, nor do I have anything against there quality as members or Mods (save one or two). It's just a personal problem which I share with other select members.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I will be frank. You guys [i]really[/i] need to get over yourselves.

Let me try to be very clear. You guys can not claim that you care about OtakuBoards if you make this a personal thing about your own ambitions; whether a Moderator is younger or older than you doesn't matter. I do not see why something that arbitrary should be an issue.

Clearly, some of you feel that [i]you[/i] should have been chosen as Moderators as opposed to some of the people who have been hired. So that means this is more about you and really not about OB or how well it's being run.

These kinds of activities - these kinds of groups and the way their ideas are presented - is not going to help any of you in terms of being hired. This is the kind of immature stuff that kids do. How can I look at that first post in Suggestions & Feedback and think "Wow, that guy really should be given some responsibility on the site!"

It's just not going to happen like that. If you guys really care about OB and its welfare, I would stop worrying about silly things like how old our Moderators are.[/font]

[quote]
The second was that I feel that there should be more Staff in the Arena section. I'm sure Ozy is a great mod and I understand if her life gets in the way of her responsibility and activity in the Arena. I simply suggest adding one or two other Staff members to that area so that it's high population of threads won't go out of control, and so that the Mods will be closer to the average and recurring RPer. These choices are yours. It's just a suggestion from a long time member who wants the best for the OB.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]You are not telling me anything I don't know, my friend.

We are in the process of hiring more staff as we speak. My goal is to have between four and five Moderators in Adventure Square and Adventure Inn. This process is occurring right now and I've been well aware of it for a while.

It's fine to make suggestions, of course. And I do welcome that. But everyone has gone about it the wrong way.

At the end of the day, I will run my own site as I choose to. I would not go to your sites and tell you how to run them. Again, I do welcome suggestions - but the problem is that none of you guys actually know what goes on behind the scenes. You don't understand all the issues related to hiring and traffic and you are obviously not aware of the instructions I have given Desbreko.

What you have suggested there is precisely what is happening. I do not announce every behind the scenes decision to the public, so the problem is that you guys have the risk of going off half-cocked, because you are complaining about things that we are all aware of and that are already being dealt with.[/font]

[quote]
That is all really. I hope what I have said has not brought me under a negative light with you. Thank you for your time and thank you for the OBs, because I love 'em a whole bunch.

Peace,

[b]The Boss[/b] aka [b]Mike[/b][/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]As I said earlier, if you love OB that's fine...you can love OB. But I think if you really love OB, you shouldn't take a personal ambition and masquerade that as "loving OB". Because that has nothing to do with OB's welfare, it only has to do with jealousy about who was hired and so on. And that doesn't get anyone anywhere, you know?

I'm not going to penalize anyone over this, but I strongly recommend that this stuff gets handled in a mature fashion in future. [i]Nothing[/i] is gained by juvenile rants. Mature, constructive criticism is the best way for members to gain positive attention from me.

- James[/font][/QUOTE]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Here is the PM between myself and The Boss.

Let's drop the kiddie stuff, guys. If you want to have a real discussion, please do so. But forming secret groups and taking everything this seriously is not going to achieve anything.

Feel free to start [i]constructive[/i], mature threads, by all means. Just be aware that anyone who feels they should be a Moderator candidate would do well to avoid this type of stuff. And I mean that in a general way, to anyone who feels they've been "passed over" or whatever.[/font]

[Ezekiel]

[quote name='Sandy']You can deny it all you want, but there's something called "reading between the lines", you know?[/quote]

[SIZE=1]There's also things called misinterpretation, personal opinion, and selfless advice. It's kind of getting annoying that people are still saying one thing when it's been explained multiple times that the exact opposite is the case. =/ Can't someone say they think a change is needed without people assuming that they have, dear God, [I]alternative motives[/I].[/SIZE]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think the problem is that I have been directly told that people are unhappy that younger members were chosen and that "public favourites" never became Moderators.

That's just bad luck. This type of stuff is definitely not going to bring anyone closer to a staff position. And as I said, a lot of it is clearly related to personal feelings that have nothing to do with the real welfare of the site.

So yeah. Have a mature discussion with really constructive criticisms or don't have one at all, I think.[/font]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Delta][COLOR=#35425E]I've noticed that when some members become mods, they become more [i]withdrawn[/i'] from the community. .[/COLOR][/quote]

I have seen this too, and it sort of concerns me, because it's weird when you get a wrning or a thread closed from someone you don't even know exists.

[James]

[quote=The Boss][color=navy][size=1]

I'd like you to note something, which I suppose you didn't pick up in my posts.

I have no interest in becoming a mod or requesting to become one. That has never been my wish or intention. Another thing I think you missed is the fact that Viva Otaku and MAMA were both groups formed so that our quarrels with the OBs condition would be spoken about privatley and then when we had all come to a descesion, we would have addressed you personally. This thread was never meant to be assosciated with either group. This was the personal descesion of AC!D!C to make. However, he is my friend, and some of his veiws I share to a much more civil degree. So I backed him, like friends do. I don't agree with everything he said, nor does he probably agree with alot I have to say.

Also, I do not place myself above any member. I hope your not allowing Annie/Athena to speak for me in this aspect. My saying what I did about the age of mods were simply the fact that I found it slightly strange that alot of members who are both older, dedicated to the OBs, and long time quality members had been passed up over for those members. It has nothing to do with me being a Mod or being put in any position of power, nor was it the fact that I thought the current mods are undeserving. It was the fact that some other members who I thought would most definely be recognized as quality enough to become Mods. I don't hate the mods, I just love those members. I'm in no way demanding change or anything. Nor were the founders of MAMA. It was simply that we wanted to eventually contact you with our opinions, not demands.

I didn't plan on you just flipping and saying we were right. We just wanted to tell you the way that we felt and see if you understood our veiws enough to look into things. The signature tags were simply there so that the members could identify one another and to have some sort of meaning when we finally did contact you to show how many members we had to support these opinions.

This is me speaking now, and this is me speaking for what the original intentions of Viva Otaku were, as for MAMA, I'm very confident this was their original intention aswell, though you would have to confirm that with JJ. We basically got outted when we weren't ready to reveal ourselves and our opinions. Athena herself isn't a part of Viva Otaku and I don't belive she is with MAMA either. I'm not sure who informed her of what we're about, but she basically went off and put our names on something which we as groups didn't authorize.

Again, I hope I am not veiwed in a negative light with you. These are just opinions.

[b]The Boss[/b][/color][/size][/QUOTE]


[font=franklin gothic medium]Here's the second PM The Boss sent me. I've posted this here out of courtesy to him, as it was his request.

But that'll be the last post on the issue.

I'm happy to discuss things constructively, as I've said. But none of the issues presented in the first post of this thread - [i]none[/i] of them - are legitimate. I am not going to discuss ages of staff, or how long they've been here or whatever. If that first post represents what these groups support, then they can consider my existing responses in this thread to be my final ones.

If there are any [i]other[/i] issues to discuss that are actually legitimate, I'm more than happy to discuss 'em.[/font]