Pirates or Ninjas?

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] :rolleyes: Even after it's proven that we can kill you guys instantly, why do you persist?

P.S. Kakashi > Pirates.[/color]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] :rolleyes: Even after it's proven that we can kill you guys instantly, why do you persist?[/color][/quote] You mean you proved something by posting pictures of annoying furries donning swords that remind me more of Dustin Hoffman characters from the 1980s than any type of killers? Or by pointing to non-ninjas like The Bride or O-Ren Ishii?

Lunox, you haven't proven anything, except that out of a few dozen posts, you still haven't been able to surpass the amazingness of Shinmaru the Gangsta Pirate, Kiera Knightley, Johnny Depp, Geoffrey Rush, Pirates of Dark Water, Captain Hook (as played by none other than Dustin Hoffman), and so on, and so on.

I mean, and you can also consider that ninja sex pales in comparison to pirate sex, especially if you like it rough. Pirates have some great sex toys, too, like chains and whips for the S&M fans here.

Being rowdy and loud is a hell of a lot better than being quiet all the time. Who is more fun to be around? Someone who knows how to have a good time, or someone who dresses in all black, never says a word, and sticks to the shadows all the time?

To illustrate, which Powerpuff Girls Buttercup was better? The regular Buttercup, who was loud and rude, etc., or the Buttercup who did that weird shadow thing for most of an episode? The monster obviously wanted the rowdy version, so in terms of social interaction, loud and outgoing is definitely better than being some weird shadow-lurker.

Because nobody likes a lurker.

And during sex, even. Would you rather your partner be vocal, or do you enjoy sex more when you're making love to someone like Ann Coulter? *shudders*

Seems pretty obvious to me.

[Retribution]

[size=1]You see, ninjas have been god-modded to all hell. A real ninja would [i]not[/i] have the art of substitution, a sharingan eye, or any chakra to speak of. He'd be a guy with some dated weaponry, and when facing pirates with guns and cannons, it's game over folks.

If we're talking about a real pirates versus real ninjas, there's absolutely no contest. Your more formidable examples have been Ninja Scroll and Naruto, both of which depict ninja as gods more than mortals. This, sadly, is and was never the truth. Real ninjas were just as dirty, just as poor, and just as mean as pirates. Their image has been falsely glorified by the eyes of anime.

So let's get back to the purist debate -- real pirates versus real ninjas. Who would win?[/size]

[Tekkaman]

[QUOTE=Papa Smurf]You mean you proved something by posting pictures of annoying furries donning swords that remind me more of Dustin Hoffman characters from the 1980s than any type of killers? Or by pointing to non-ninjas like The Bride or O-Ren Ishii?

Lunox, you haven't proven anything, except that out of a few dozen posts, you still haven't been able to surpass the amazingness of Shinmaru the Gangsta Pirate, Kiera Knightley, Johnny Depp, Geoffrey Rush, Pirates of Dark Water, Captain Hook (as played by none other than Dustin Hoffman), and so on, and so on.

*kisses*[/QUOTE]
[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3]What makes your posts any better than ours [b][i][u]Papa Smurf[/u][/i][/b]? You say all we've done is shown you pictures and what not, but you and other pirate lovers have done the [u]same thing[/u]!! [b][i][u]Information v.s. Information[/u][/i][/b]. Honestly, this debate could last all night long and then some if you really want it to because no side is going to give up and you know this to be true, [b][i][u]Papa[/u][/i][/b].[/size][/font]
[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3]And [u]hell yes[/u] I showed you a doctored photo of a ninja kid kicking the hell outta the dad. Why? Because the picture was [u]funny as hell[/u]. :animesmil I've shown you pictures that weren't doctored as well also.[/size][/font]
[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3]As i've previously stated, this war for who's better will go on [u]forever[/u]... :animesigh But in the end, ninjas will prevail.[/size][/font]

[Sara]

[quote name='Acheron][font=Palatino Linotype][size=3]What makes your posts any better than ours [b][i][u]Papa Smurf[/u][/i][/b]? You say all we've done is shown you pictures and what not, but you and other pirate lovers have done the [u]same thing[/u]!! [b][i][u]Information v.s. Information[/u][/i][/b][/size'][/font][/quote][color=#b0000b][size=1]The point is that you are not showing pictures of any formidable (or even likeable) characters who actually qualify as [i]ninjas[/i].

Whereas we have The Dread Pirate Roberts (greatest swordsman in the world), Captain James Hook (the only man the sea-cook ever feared), Keira Knightly (face it, she's a pirate and she's hot), and Long John Silver (the sea-cook in question), among others.

You've given us ninja babies (frankly, that's embarrassing) and a couple of admittedly kick-butt characters who, sadly for you, are not ninjas. (PROTIP: There is a reason for this.)[/size][/color]

[Shinmaru]

If ninja are in need of some star power, then I think that it should be noted that, although he does not conform to the "traditional" image of a ninja, Batman is a ninja, or at the very least possesses many ninjaesque characteristics (mastery of martial arts; highly developed strength and discipline; excellent at sneaking into places and leaving without a trace; access to tons of kickass equipment; etc.). Out of everyone mentioned so far, I think that Batman is pretty easily the coolest. Yes, even cooler than I am somehow.

However, there's one thing that I've been wondering that may swing me over to the pirate side... when we speak of pirates, are we strictly referring to sea pirates, or could someone like my hero down here be considered...?

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/Shinmaru/Hansolo.jpg[/img]

I mean, for all intents and purposes, Han Solo [i]is[/i] a pirate: He travels to far off lands (and galaxies); he smuggles and has stolen his fair share of booty; he's got the roguish good looks, and, really, Han is a master of getting some. You all saw how Princess Leia was all over him in the original Star Wars trilogy, right? She was so eating out of his hands. And who else but Han Solo could respond to a declaration of love by saying, "I know" and get away with it?

If we're including space pirates in this, then I'm all over that. I can't say that I'm at all interested in sailing the seas, but I could never resist traveling the galaxy in the Millennium Falcon and shacking up with a young Carrie Fisher.

[Papa Smurf]

Shinmaru, you don't even have to interpret Empire Strikes Back, thanks to Lando as he talks to Han Solo:

"How you doing, you old pirate?"

And in the script to ESB, when he's seducing Leia aboard the Millennium Falcon, Lucas says "the space pirate moves closer to her."

The Millennium Falcon itself is called a "pirate ship" throughout the script.

Han Solo is a pirate, definitely. Space pirate, but a pirate nonetheless. I think it's a suitable reference, given the downright absurd and stupid pro-ninja references we've seen. lol

[Shinmaru]

I knew that [i]someone[/i] had called Han a pirate at some point lol. Did Leia ever call him a pirate, too? I seem to remember her doing so, but that could just be in my mind, haha.

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]You see, ninjas have been god-modded to all hell. A real ninja would [i]not[/i] have the art of substitution, a sharingan eye, or any chakra to speak of. He'd be a guy with some dated weaponry, and when facing pirates with guns and cannons, it's game over folks.

If we're talking about a real pirates versus real ninjas, there's absolutely no contest. Your more formidable examples have been Ninja Scroll and Naruto, both of which depict ninja as gods more than mortals. This, sadly, is and was never the truth. Real ninjas were just as dirty, just as poor, and just as mean as pirates. Their image has been falsely glorified by the eyes of anime.

So let's get back to the purist debate -- real pirates versus real ninjas. Who would win?[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] ... That's the whole point of this argument. It's supposed to be dumb and playful. Which it's not anymore, so what the hell.

And to Papa Smurf... what? Shinmaru just stated Batman was a ninja and you don't say anything. BATMAN. You explode at me for calling [i]Miho[/i] a ninja, but obviously Batman is so ninja-like that it's not even questionable. [/color]

[Lava Lamp]

[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Garamond]Alright, I made this thread, so I'm gonna put my two sense in now.
I realized, that pirates and ninjas are a lot alike.
I mean, seriously!
They both fight with or without swords.
They both get drunk (Well, pirates get drunk more then ninjas, but ninjas still get drunk).
They both travel.
They both will fight to the death.
They both have fangirls (and guys).
They both have flippin' awesome moves.

But, in the end, I'm gonna have to go with pirates.
If Johnny Depp played a ninja, I might change my mind.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray']... That's the whole point of this argument. It's supposed to be dumb and playful. Which it's not anymore, so what the hell.[/color][/quote]
I see the pro-ninja side getting flustered. Pro-pirates have been pretty good about things, I'd say. Pro-ninjas are bringing in irrelevant nonsense, then getting all pissed when the pro-pirate people (rightly) fluff it away. For example, see below.

[quote][color=dimgray]And to Papa Smurf... what? Shinmaru just stated Batman was a ninja and you don't say anything. BATMAN. You explode at me for calling [i]Miho[/i] a ninja, but obviously Batman is so ninja-like that it's not even questionable. [/color][/QUOTE]
At least Batman sticks to the shadows. lol. Think back to Sin City. What does Miho do pretty much the first time we see her? She [spoiler]gores Benicio Del Toro through his head[/spoiler] and does it in plain sight, even though it's at night. She makes no effort at all to work under the cover of darkness. That scene might as well have taken place in the middle of the freaking day, Lunox.

Compare that to Batman, who uses the night, who preys on his target's fears and paranoia, who uses smoke bombs, and who was trained to be a ninja, for crying out loud.

Shinmaru's example was accurate and relevant. Yours wasn't. Simple as that.

[Sara]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray]Shinmaru just stated Batman was a ninja and you don't say anything. BATMAN. You explode at me for calling [i]Miho[/i'] a ninja, but obviously Batman is so ninja-like that it's not even questionable. [/color][/quote][color=#b0000b][size=1]Yeah, I gotta give you guys Batman. He doesn't fit in every incarnation, obviously, but Shinmaru's definitely got something there.[/size][/color]

[Ellerby]

[QUOTE=Lunox] ... That's the whole point of this argument. It's supposed to be dumb and playful. Which it's not anymore, so what the hell.

And to Papa Smurf... what? Shinmaru just stated Batman was a ninja and you don't say anything. BATMAN. You explode at me for calling [i]Miho[/i] a ninja, but obviously Batman is so ninja-like that it's not even questionable.[/QUOTE][color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]
It seems to me like the Pro-Ninja's are the only ones getting frustrated here. Us Pro-Pirates on the other hand remain calm and relaxed. This was meant to be a discussion. Not a hoedown. However what it has turned into is a debate. And debates can be fierce.

Your team provides nothing but junky scraps of what you try to call proof that Ninja's are better. It looks like the only reason you are doing this is because you really can't think of anything to back up the [i]real[/i] Ninjas with instead of the god-modded anime characters.

[quote name='Acheron']What makes your posts any better than ours Papa Smurf? You say all we've done is shown you pictures and what not, but you and other pirate lovers have done the same thing!! Information v.s. Information.[/quote]
Except for the fact that we're the only sides providing information. A picture of a baby kicking his dad in the face, although funny, is not evidence that Ninja's are better.[/font]

[size=1]And Acheron? Seriously, you remind me of SSJDigiCloud from EtN.[/size][/COLOR]

[Shi no Tenshi]

Batman is portrayed ninja-esque in the film Batman Begins. But I thought the point was that he defied the order to become a one man unit? Just a thought.

Anywho, ninja's or pirates?

How about Mongolian Ninja Pirates? XD

On one hand, I have an awesome hot pink t-shirt that says 'Mad Ninja Skillz'. On the other hand, Johnny Depp plays a pirate. And Johnny Depp is plunderable.

Let's make this easier.

One Piece vs. Naruto.

NARUTO WINS! And that's just on the basis of animation quality ;/

[nezzyjean]

c'mon guys, pirates would totally beat out ninjas in a fight.

if a ninja tried to karate chop a cannon ball, he'd totally get owned in the face.

[Raiyuu]

[font=trebuchet ms]@Papa: the first thing we see Miho do is [spoiler]slice off Benicio del Toro's hand with a shuriken thrown from a concealed position atop a building. Shuriken = ninja weapon; attacking from concealed position = ninja technique[/spoiler]. Although I'll have to concede that, like most of the characters put forward by the Ninja Lobby, she's a grey area. The best term for Miho is probably one coined by William Gibson, [i]street samurai[/i].

The Bride is less of a grey area. She isn't a ninja. She's a silly Caucasian girl who likes to play with samurai swords. If her training with Pi Mei gives her any credentials at all, they're samurai credentials, not ninja.

Naruto ninjas are only really ninjas in name. Rock Lee is the closest to a genuine ninja, and even he has crazy god-mode Lifegate powers. Ninjas do not use magical powers. Ninjas would never wear [i]orange[/i].

Batman as portrayed in [i]Batman Begins[/i] and Frank Miller's comics is trained as a ninja, so I'd say he's legit for the Ninja Lobby.

There are always going to be situations where one wins and situations where the other wins. Pirates are undoubtedly better in bed. In a one-on-one confrontation Jack Sparrow gets his throat cut, unless he cheats by being a zombie, and zombie pirates are a whole other sub-category. At sea the pirates probably win before the ninjas even get aboard, though if the ninjas [i]do[/i] get aboard it's a different story. And if we're talking "how many cool celebrity pirates/ninjas are there?", then pirates have far more in their arsenal. But then, a famous ninja would be a pretty crappy ninja, right?[/font]

[Ben]

[quote name='Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms'] But then, a famous ninja would be a pretty crappy ninja, right?[/font][/quote]

Hang on, first you establish Batman as being a ninja, and then say a famous ninja would be a crappy ninja? Isn't Batman rather well-known? Not only a pseudo-hero of his city, but even in our world, rather well-known.

Did you just call Batman [I]crappy?[/I] :animeangr

Heh, seriously, though. I am a ridiculous Naruto fan, and almost instantly support ninjas on that basis. Taking into account that they DO have extraordinary "powers" there, though, I'll discount it from serious discussion.




Well, no I won't. I'll present two opinions. >_>

In anime, where all things are possible, I'd say ninjas win on the basis of Naruto vs. One-Piece (those being the only animes I've seen relvent to this :p). Both have characters with abilities that are quite outside the ordinary. In Naruto, they have the various jutsus that require chakra and such, and in One-Piece they have the characters with Cursed Fruit powers, and then otherlings such as Arlong and the fishmen. As godmodded as it is, though, I'd like to see Luffy take a Rasengan to the face and straighten himself out in under a week. Or see Zolo try and take Kakashi.


In terms of more respectable literature, cinema, and such, I'd have to go with what Sara said:

[QUOTE]Whereas we have The Dread Pirate Roberts (greatest swordsman in the world), Captain James Hook (the only man the sea-cook ever feared), Keira Knightly (face it, she's a pirate and she's hot), and Long John Silver (the sea-cook in question), among others.[/QUOTE]

Pirates rock the hizzouse. They may seem like a bunch of drunken rabble sometimes (quite possibly because they ARE at times) but they're a hell of a lot tougher than they may seem. As for ninjas sneaking up on them and stabbing them in the face/neck/vital organs....I just don't see it happening. If nothing else, DUMB LUCK would save the pirate. The ship would lean, or something, and he'd fall out of his chair, or a drunken stumble on land would put him out of the way of a kunai strike.

Whereby, of course, he turns and shoots the ninja. Or bashes him with a bottle of rum.

Yo ho ho for the win. :D

[Sara]

[quote name='Ben']Hang on, first you establish Batman as being a ninja, and then say a famous ninja would be a crappy ninja? Isn't Batman rather well-known? Not only a pseudo-hero of his city, but even in our world, rather well-known.[/quote][color=#b0000b][size=1]Batman would appear to be an exception here.

I think the point is that he doesn't going around being all "[i]Captain[/i] Ninja Batman, savvy?"

Successful ninjas need to be stealthy, and stealth typically does not lend itself to fame. This is why the ninja-crowd is so screwed trying to find cool, successful ninjas--if someone is a successful ninja, [i]no one knows about it[/i]. That's the mark of success.[/size][/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]Successful ninjas need to be stealthy, and stealth typically does not lend itself to fame. This is why the ninja-crowd is so screwed trying to find cool, successful ninjas--if someone is a successful ninja, [i]no one knows about it[/i]. That's the mark of success.[/size'][/color][/quote] [COLOR=maroon]Actually, if one actually tries to look at the story instead of the breasts in Dead of Alive, the ninja world there, although hidden from everyone else, is pretty public between clans, such as missing ninjas, famous ninjas, ninjas you shouldn't really #### with if you want to live tomorrow, and even trying to kill the messenger (as well as the one you are sending the message to!). So yeah, although a closed circle, all the information about ninjas is easily accessible to ninjas.

I'm not joking, check out DOA and you'll see!

And I although I still haven't come up with anything better yet, I have something of a little better note, Sara: Ryu can do a really awesome backflip! [i]OFF A WALL! OFF AN EFFIN' WALL![/i]

Take that![/COLOR]

[The Spectacular Professor]

Okay, so it has been brought up that today's ninja has been terribly over-hyped. This is true, but so have pirates. Let me explain:

1. Pirates do [B]not[/B] bury treasure. They blow it on booze and hookers.

2. Walk the plank? Don't make me laugh. If you're worth the plank, you're worth money to someone (ransom, anyone?)

3. No sane pirate would go out and rob himself a huge ship. Other than Blackbeard, most pirate ships were oversized rowboats, thus helping to catch the merchants they were after off guard.

4. Scurvy. Citrus deficiency is literally murder.

5. Female pirates don't exist. For the most part, anyway. However, I'm pretty sure that "Elizabeth Swan" doesn't sound anything like "Queen Alvida." Pirates were incredibly superstitious, but so were most sailors.

Both have been overhyped, which is why I remain happily nonpartisan.

Also, Ben, In your argument, you forget the elite of One Piece, while bringing up Kakashi. There's Mihawk (world's greatest swordsman, count the other seven warlords, as well,) Shanks (missing an arm, but still kicks butt in Grand Battle,) Smoker (face it, he is just too awesome,) and, of course, Ace (I would pay money to see him and Kakashi go at it.)

[Ben]

[quote name='Aceburner']Also, Ben, In your argument, you forget the elite of One Piece, while bringing up Kakashi. There's Mihawk (world's greatest swordsman, count the other seven warlords, as well,) Shanks (missing an arm, but still kicks butt in Grand Battle,) Smoker (face it, he is just too awesome,) and, of course, Ace (I would pay money to see him and Kakashi go at it.)[/quote]

I didn't [I]forget[/I] the elite of One-Piece, I simply [B]know nothing about them[/B]. Whereas I've watched Naruto extensively, I've only seen about...three...episodes of One-Piece. Until you just mentioned them, I really didn't know about Mihawk and Ace (although I do have Grand Battle, and Smoker does rawk. Have yet to unlock Shanks. >.<).

Anyways, that's why. :p

[elfpirate]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Simple enough.

I'd be a pirate, hands down.

Why? Several reasons, actually.

First an' foremost, because I love the sea.
Second, because, although ninja are a pretty neat concept, an' much skill is required, etc, they are still an employee.

I would rather embrace the freedom of piracy, the open water, an' freedom from law and government. It's the epitome of autonomy. A freedom from classes and nations.

It's not about cannons an' swords an' costume. It's about a lifestyle of belonging to yourself.
[/font]

[Your Mother]

[SIZE=1]That's it. I must speak.
[U]
Ninjas > Pirates.[/U]

Because Ninjas are stealthy, skilled, silent and deadly. Pirates clump around on peg legs.
Ninjas will whip serious booty in a one on one fight.

Who says Pirates are better in bed? Huh? Just because Johnny Depp and Keira Knightley are good looking doesn't mean jack. Pirates are fat, ugly, dirty, hairy, AND smelly. Ninjas are muscular, in tiptop shape, and have stamina after training and living in hellish conditions. Ninjas would have the stamina to keep f***ing all night. Pirates would tire their unfit a**es out after thirty seconds. Who the hell would you rather sleep with, someone who smells like a garbage disposal or someone at their physical, mental, and sexual peak? Think about it!

Depp and Knightley are exceptions to the rule. They are NOT the rule. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE. Forget Han Solo, Batman, the Ninja Turtles, Johnny Depp, the Power Rangers, and ANY PARTICULAR NINJA OR PIRATE mentioned in this thread. Think of the standard ninja, compare that to the standard pirate. Now who is superior? Ninjas. [B]Period.[/B][/SIZE]

[The Spectacular Professor]

[QUOTE=Ben]I didn't [I]forget[/I] the elite of One-Piece, I simply [B]know nothing about them[/B]. Whereas I've watched Naruto extensively, I've only seen about...three...episodes of One-Piece. Until you just mentioned them, I really didn't know about Mihawk and Ace (although I do have Grand Battle, and Smoker does rawk. Have yet to unlock Shanks. >.<).

Anyways, that's why. :p[/QUOTE]
Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. I can understand why you would miss a few episodes of One Piece (the dub, at least: 4Kids is laughable.) Lucky for you (and me,) Mihawk is an unlockable character, as is Crocodile, Mr. 2, and Shanks ( no Ace, but I heard a rumor about the upcoming Grand Adventure.) I seem to have made a mistake, by the way. There are seven Warlords of the Sea [B]total[/B], not eight.

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1']Think of the standard ninja, compare that to the standard pirate.[/size][/quote]
The standard ninja is as boring as batsh-t. Standard pirate is fun as hell.

Your example, like so many of the pro-ninja arguments, just fell flat on its face. lol

If you don't think standard ninjas are boring, then let me ask you: when's the last time you heard of a ninja relaxing on a nice tropical island with some good alcohol, great fishing, and absolutely gorgeous bright blue water on the beach?

You want to talk about standard examples...dude, the standard pirate just ganked your ***. lol