Mormons: What's The Deal?

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna][QUOTE=Grace][SIZE=1]I was just at work going over some major problems we have in-game. I was sitting at my desk and drinking a delicious Blended Vanilla Bean from Starbucks (^_^). Then I came across this one report, which made me very, VERY, upset.

"Mormons are *******, all they do is dress up in these ugly suits, and ride around on bicycles! And on top of that they have like 500 wives!"[/SIZE][/QUOTE]I?m curious as to what this report you are referring to is as well. Perhaps you could explain?[quote name='Grace][SIZE=1']AHEM AHEM AHEM! Well excuse me! I really don't think that's what Mormonism is all about. And why must everyone pick on the religion? Seriously, isn't there someone else that can get fired upon all the time?[/SIZE][/quote]I seriously doubt that everyone is picking on the Mormon religion. Even though I dislike the religion, along with many other religions, I don?t go around poking fun or making jokes about the LDS/Mormon religion. I don?t go around making fun of any religion.

Even though I have been repeatedly harassed by members of the LDS/Mormon religion, I still do not view it as an excuse to make fun of them. Just as there are disagreeable members, there are also members who are not like that at all.[quote name='Grace][SIZE=1']Even on Late Night shows (Jay Leno, David Letterman) are starting to take aim at my religion. It's not funny, and not fair. I mean, God forbid someone makes a crack on a Catholic (no offence people, really). The whole church would go crazy and the person who said it will go under fire.[/SIZE][/quote]Starting too? Perhaps you haven?t been watching TV or following events, the LDS/Mormon religion has been getting made fun of for a very long time. Nothing I have seen indicates that the harassment is anything new. As for the Catholic Church, they may not like it, but people make fun of them all the time and they have not gone crazy so to speak. Gavin would know this better than I would. But I don?t recall anything in the news where the Catholic Church was going after someone for making fun of them.

And for that matter, I don?t recall the LDS/Mormon Church going after anyone either. Though SunfallE makes a good point in that they did ostracize the member who published the book she mentioned. If anything it is the LDS/Mormon Church who goes nuts over something that doesn?t agree with their political agenda. My parents live back east and I?m constantly surprised by things that are filtered out of the news here that are negative towards the LDS/Mormon church. [QUOTE=Grace][SIZE=1]And as I know it, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not practice polygamy anymore.

Yet, there is this one show on HBO called "Big Love" about some Mormons in SLC, Utah. I think the main character has like two wives and 10 children or whatever.

What do you think about Mormonism always under fire?

For those of you who ARE Mormon, do you find shows like these offensive?

And finally, do you think if other religions such at Catholicism, were to be made fun of, would they be very upset and make a big deal about it?[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Polygamy is no longer practiced because it?s illegal. Otherwise I doubt the church would have quit that practice. So long as it?s between consenting adults I see no problem with it.

If we were to remove every single show that was offensive to someone there would be no show?s to watch on TV. Have you even watched this show? I?ve seen the Internet and a physical petition to get this show removed and it?s pretty laughable since like SunfallE mentioned, many of the people haven?t even seen the show. It?s a melodramatic soap opera that is not meant to be taken as fact.

What do I think? That like any other religion, they get poked fun at. I don?t see it as an earth shattering event that anyone needs to get worried about. I agree that it?s not very polite, but I really don?t see it as a huge problem.

I am not Mormon, and though the show is a bit tasteless, I don?t find it offensive. If they were to present it as a story about actual members of the church, then yes I would think they had crossed the line since at that point it would be evident that they are deliberately making fun of specific individuals. And if they had it would be slander as well.

As for your last one. The Catholic Church is already being made fun of, and so far they don?t seem to be making a big deal over it. I?m kind of curious as to how you got the idea that they aren?t being made fun of. [QUOTE=Grace][SIZE=1]Have you seen the commercial of two young women sitting in some sort of eating area? One woman (the Mormon) hands the other one a Bible. And tells her that it's good to read, and that she should check it out. Then at the end it says something about this being a message from the Mormons.

See? She didn't just barge in there and tell the woman to go baptize herself as a new Mormon now did she? That's how I feel we should feel portrayed.

And for those of you who like Napolean Dynamite (spelling -.-) well that had some Mormons in it. Hehe.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Commercials are designed to portray things in the best light possible. I cannot see how you can say a commercial is an accurate portrayal of any religion or product, etc. [quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']However I still feel that religious people have a right to become offended when someone offends them, just as any one else has the right when they're insulted.[/SIZE][/quote] I agree, that everyone has a right to be upset, I just think it?s important to wonder if it?s worth getting upset over. Some things need to be ended but others, I wouldn?t say it?s harmless, but on some level you can?t make people not crack jokes at a religion. I know plenty of LDS/Mormons who pretty much ignore the negative comments and are comfortable enough with their own religion to poke fun at themselves. One of the funniest jokes about polygamy and Brigham Young I learned from a member of the LDS/Mormon Church. [/COLOR]

[Esther]

[QUOTE]If I read Grace's earlier posts correctly, I think she's trying to say Mormons (as a rule) don't make a big deal out of the jokes made at their expense, whereas the Catholic Church can be trusted to get prickly and make a hoo-hah out of a piece of controversial fiction.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Ah, that's EXACTLY what I was trying to get across the table. I never said that Mormons are the only ones getting picked on (despite the fact that I said "can't someone else get picked on" something like that). I was just referring to the fact of the uprising of people cracking jokes of the religion.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]Then you have a pretty poor sense of humor.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I guess I do then.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]I?m curious as to what this report you are referring to is as well. Perhaps you could explain?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]For those of you who asked about this, I'll answer it as simple as I can. I work for a internet game community for teens around the world. Each Country (Hotel) has their own moderation team, who are to send in a report about serious offenders against our game rules. I am to go over the reports, and this one report happened to catch my eye.

I hope that is what you were asking.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]My parents live back east and I?m constantly surprised by things that are filtered out of the news here that are negative towards the LDS/Mormon church.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]What state do you reside in? I'm just curious.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]What do I think? That like any other religion, they get poked fun at. I don?t see it as an earth shattering event that anyone needs to get worried about. I agree that it?s not very polite, but I really don?t see it as a huge problem.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Sorry if I made it out to sound like a "Earth shattering event", for those were not my intentions at all. I simply wanted to bring up that the fact that people making fun of Mormons is starting to become more and more popular.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna][QUOTE=Grace][SIZE=1]For those of you who asked about this, I'll answer it as simple as I can. I work for a internet game community for teens around the world. Each Country (Hotel) has their own moderation team, who are to send in a report about serious offenders against our game rules. I am to go over the reports, and this one report happened to catch my eye.

I hope that is what you were asking.

What state do you reside in? I'm just curious.

Sorry if I made it out to sound like a "Earth shattering event", for those were not my intentions at all. I simply wanted to bring up that the fact that people making fun of Mormons is starting to become more and more popular.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]That's exactly what I was asking since I hadn't seen anything recently about a report of what LDS/Mormons are so it had me puzzled as to what you were referring to. In all honesty it sounds like a bunch of people poking fun at it without bothering to find out what the LDS/Mormon Church is really like.

I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Which is suppose to be the headquarters of the LDS/Mormon religion. Unless they have changed that recently. I was referring to the fact that my parents will mention something in relation to the LDS/Mormon Church being in the news and yet it's not on the news here or in the newspapers either. Nothing earth shattering, but it does happen.

There's no need to be sorry. If you've never run across it before, then it just makes it all that more surprising when you do. I've been running into it for a long time. Other people poking fun at all sorts of things including various religions. Personally I think it's rather sad, unless it's someone who's just trying to be funny. There are those who are genuinely being rude and others who poke fun but don't really have any ill will towards the LDS/Mormon Church. [/COLOR]

[YoukaiAlchemist]

o.o I think that it's mostly due to societies closed mindedness to things it thinks are strange, and because of the people that come up to your door and keep trying to make you take a pamphlet and such. o.O that plus it's an easy target.

o.O() Still your not alone in the sick of being made fun of. I'm in the south and i'm sick of southerners being made fun of as "stupid, redneck, shoe-less, shot gun carrying idiots." It's funny, but it's getting old. seriously.

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Grace][SIZE=1']I guess I do then.[/SIZE][/quote]

[color=crimson]Well, what do you want me to say? Intolerance festers across the Earth. It's depressing, it's bad, it's something that needs to be changed.

Yet, I can't empathize with you or Gavin when you start bringing up Jay Leno, Letterman or the Da Vinchi Code, lol. This post was inspired by some idiot from an internet game, wasn't it? Comedians, a fiction book and some ignorant fool ranting? Is that.. it? Is that all? Intolerance can take many forms but the above don't strike me as being monstrous, evil examples of it.

Why do I think Mormonism is an easy target? It's entire existence is a series of events that most people would find laughable. Why? It seems like a poorly conceived fairy tale to them, something funny and amusing but not much else. You have to deal with being a minority considered a joke. If it becomes more popular to make fun of Mormons?

Well.. deal with it.[/color]

[Fasteriskhead]

[quote name='goladith']One thing I gotta say, was I was raised with tolerance to all religions.[/quote]I may perhaps be taking your statement too broadly, goladith, but this may be worth discussing. In contemporary discussion there's a lot of talk involving this word "tolerance," especially in discussion about religion. Sometimes there's some nuance to this talk, but not often. Usually it simply amounts to "tolerance good, intolerance bad" - except if we mean "tolerance" in a pejorative way, which is when we call it political correctness. Obviously none of this means anything.

Anyways, I'd like to see if I can address the topic, even if it shoots well away from the Mormonism issue. What is tolerence? Well, let's picture a situation where the guy who lives across the street from us behaves oddly - let's say he's painted his house neon pink, installed a giant statue of Joey Ramone on his patio, and so forth. How do we react to this? First, let's say we get offended; we might begin by complaining to the homeowner's association, then (if he doesn't change his ways) try to find a way to get him to pick up and leave, and then finally (if still no results) rent a backhoe and pull down Joey a la Saddam Hussein. This is a "thin-skinned" reaction.

Alternatively, let's say we decide to [i]tolerate[/i] our neighbor's oddities. What does this mean? It means that we shrug it off, that we put up with it - this is so obvious that I shouldn't even need to say it. Basically we don't take offense, we don't try to get rid of what we're putting up with. But let's think this through a little further. At what point do we talk about tolerance [i]ending?[/i] If we've considered this even a little bit, we have to know that our shrugging things off has to come to an end somewhere: a neighbor being annoying is something very different from, say, a serial murderer who's just broken in through our window. But WHAT is that difference, exactly? Obviously we have to answer: because the second example [i]matters[/i]. We say that we can put up with a lot, but when our lives or our loved ones or our principles are on the line, we can't "tolerate" it any longer; if we could, we would basically be relativists (and I have yet to meet any relativists).

Let's think for a minute about what we've just said. Why don't we put up with the murderer in our house? Because our lives [i]matter[/i], because it's something important. But if we say this, isn't the reverse also true? That is, if we're "shrugging off" our obnoxious neighbor, aren't we doing it because the pink house and Joey aren't really important and don't really carry any weight? But now, [i]what have we just said here[/i]? When we say that we "tolerate" all religions, then, are we basically saying to all the Jews, all the Buddhists, and the whole rest of the role call, that their religions [i]don't matter?[/i] This seems to be exactly the opposite of what we mean when we call ourselves tolerant, and yet it makes a kind of sense. What has been our society's leading stance on religion, after all? We're perfectly happy to allow anyone to "believe" whatever they want, so long as it doesn't actually effect us in any meaningful way. Thomas Jefferson: "...it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." What matters here is not the gods or the lack of gods, and CERTAINLY not what one's neighbor believes, but the condition of one's leg and pocket. So we say, with the full support of the founding fathers: "Sure, go ahead and be a Hindu if you want. Great! But perform any weird rituals on my lawn and I'm calling the cops."

Does this mean that we're hypocrits and there's really no such thing as tolerance? No, it just means that we have limits... or, better, it means that in the end there are still some things that we care about. It's worth noting that usually we only ever describe tolerance negatively, i.e. in "nots": NOT taking offense, NOT reacting badly, NOT taking religion as anything important (with the more extreme reading above), etc.. At best we might call it "accepting," but that then assumes we know what accepting means. In any case, we're quite right to wonder if we've really been using the word "tolerance" in this way, or if all along we might have meant something else.

By writing all of this am I saying that tolerance is a bad thing? Not necessarily. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we currently live in the most "accepting" period in history - this is a deep improvement, as any minority can tell you. But with all of this tolerance, we seem to have also arrived in a world where very little matters. Human beings live in their own carefully sealed-off territories, only interacting with people who are truly [i]other[/i] in heavily controlled, abstracted, superficial ways. Hence myspace, hence ipods, hence something as simple as how people shop at the grocery store (staring straight ahead, never making eye contact). We no longer try to [i]destroy[/i] what's different, but the price has been that we no longer really react to the different at all. My hope is that my generation (and the generation of most of the folks reading this) will begin to seriously think about this, which has to mean more than just condemning "apathy" from on high. My [I]fear[/I] is that we won't even catch sight of the problem.

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Interesting point... very ineteresting. But it all depends on how you define "tolerance." To me, Tolerance is not neccessarily liking something, but understanding that other people do and you have no right to tell them what to do. To quote Mr. Garisson "Just because you tolerate a bad cold doesn't mean you have to like it."

I do agree with you that politic correctness IS wrong. It's gotten to the point where we won't speak our minds for fear of being branded intolerent and racists etc. Tolerance and PC are often confused, but I don't think they're the same thing - like I said, tolerance doesn't necessarily mean liking something.

And I don't think it's about things that 'matter' and 'don't matter,' it's more like things either don't effect us, effect us positivly, or effect us negativly. Obviously we're more inclined to tolerate the first two rather than the ladde.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Fasteriskhead]By writing all of this am I saying that tolerance is a bad thing? Not necessarily. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we currently live in the most "accepting" period in history - this is a deep improvement, as any minority can tell you. But with all of this tolerance, we seem to have also arrived in a world where very little matters. Human beings live in their own carefully sealed-off territories, only interacting with people who are truly [i]other[/i] in heavily controlled, abstracted, superficial ways. Hence myspace, hence ipods, hence something as simple as how people shop at the grocery store (staring straight ahead, never making eye contact). We no longer try to [i]destroy[/i] what's different, but the price has been that we no longer really react to the different at all. My hope is that my generation (and the generation of most of the folks reading this) will begin to seriously think about this, which has to mean more than just condemning "apathy" from on high. My [I]fear[/I'] is that we won't even catch sight of the problem.[/quote]
[size=1]Really, I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess part of the problem is that you seem to carry on for half a page and end up with a conclusion that could've been proven in two paragraph.

Anyway, I disagree with you when you say that we as a society are tending towards apathy. In some ways, this is definitely true, however what you're describing (assuming you live in America) is true for only half of the country at tops. I mean, who are you kidding when you say that the southern states tolerance and accept so much that they're becoming apathetic? Furthermore, it's not like northern states are completely detached from everyday life solely because they're more accepting.

iPods, MySpace, TV, whatever the hell you want to blame it on is not the problem. We [i]do[/i] react to the different, we just react in a more civilized manner. If one of my friends were to tell me they were gay, I wouldn't burn them at the stake. Instead, I would take them the way they are and continue being their friend. I really don't think that the level of tolerance is at the point where everyone (or even the majority) thinks "If you're not harming me, go ahead and do it." That's why the abortion gay marriage debates are so hot these days. People care what other people are doing, when it's completely clear that it won't harm them in any way aside from personal distaste.

Society really isn't so isolated, cold, and detached as you're making it out to be. The way you're sounding, one would thing that we all live in boxes so that we don't have to deal with human interaction.

Basically, I think that you're overexaggerating the apathy of today. Sure, it's a problem, but it's not a spiraling nose-dive.[/size]

[Fasteriskhead]

Well, thanks for your response, but I don't think you've quite caught on to what I'm getting at. And I apologize, I should have made myself clearer, although what I'm trying to say is a little unusual. True, in the next few years we're probably going to see gazillions of bad editorials about the "apathy" of our generation, all of which have caught the scent but immediately followed it in the wrong direction. However, I'm trying to do better than that. In no way do I think that what we're confronting right now is apathy (there's a reason I put it in scare quotes the first time around), cold detachment, or even isolation. For one thing, it's not that we're not interacting, it's that, as I said, we're "only interacting with people who are truly other in heavily controlled, abstracted, superficial ways."

I'm not saying that ipods are ruining the human race (nor the reverse, that if we all deleted our myspace accounts somehow everything would be fine). If I single them out, it's because I think they're representative of a trend in thinking that we're going through right now. And you're right to say that what I'm talking about only applies to a portion of the world at the moment - but it's a portion that, I would say, probably most posters on these boards belong to. Finally, I think when you say that "People care what other people are doing, when it's completely clear that it won't harm them in any way aside from personal distaste," you skipped over the part in my first post when I said: "...when our lives or our loved ones or our principles are on the line, we can't 'tolerate' it any longer." Emphasis on principles. To rein myself in a little: I'm not saying that we're getting to the point where abstraction and superficiality hold sway [i]everywhere[/i] in all cases, but I think there's a very strong trend where that kind of "taking everything lightly" is increasingly seen as something wise and morally correct when, I think, it may not be.

You say: "We [i]do[/i] react to the different, we just react in a more civilized manner." By "more civilized" you mean moreso than the loudmouth bible thumpers. Definitely. I gave a cold shoulder to these folks in my previous post, as you may have noticed. But: "we [i]do[/i] react to the different"? Are you so sure? I'm not.

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']If one of my friends were to tell me they were gay, I wouldn't burn them at the stake. Instead, I would take them the way they are and continue being their friend.[/size][/quote]This, for me, is exactly the thing that's so difficult. What do we consider the best response to a friend admitting to us that they're gay, or switching to Buddhism, or (for that matter) painting their house hot pink? We "accept" it and continue the friendship. But you have to see the danger in this: by tolerating their homosexuality and then continuing on as normal, aren't we basically [i]trivializing[/i] that homosexuality? (And don't misunderstand me as saying that I think that, when this happens, we should approach our friends afterwards as if they had a gigantic "GAY" flag hanging off of them)

Here's my worry, if I could sum it up: by merely "tolerating" other religions, sexualities, ethnicities, etc., we just gather them up into acceptance (i.e. resignation) without ever actually confronting what they might mean and what they might say. This is not a question about our thinking that our "culture" is superior, or even that all others are really just the same as ours, it's about not even wondering what the differences [i]are[/i] at their core. If we still react to the different, as you say, I think it's typically to [i]reassure[/i] ourselves that there's really no big difference after all, e.g. that I don't really need to seriously consider my friend in light of his sexuality, and so his being gay is a change that I can handle easily. It's not that we ignore things or that we don't care (apathy), it's that we accept them as if they had no weight.

Now, it would be far worse than a mistake if we were to go back from tolerance into the "stake-burning" that you rightfully criticize - although I suspect a couple of us are going to end up heading that way. But I think mere tolerance is only going to get us so far, and history isn't going to be kind to us if we can't figure out how to get past it. Anyways, sorry about the long posts - I'm worried about being misunderstood on this, although I might as well go ahead and accept being told that I'm talking about how political correctness is bad.

[Retribution]

[size=1]First, I'd like to give you a pat on the back for correcting me and not blasting me. Debates are always more fun with the friendly crowd.
[quote name='Fasteriskhead]You say: "We [i]do[/i] react to the different, we just react in a more civilized manner." By "more civilized" you mean moreso than the loudmouth bible thumpers. Definitely. I gave a cold shoulder to these folks in my previous post, as you may have noticed. But: "we [i]do[/i'] react to the different"? Are you so sure? I'm not.[/quote]
We definitely react to the different. To continue my previous analogy, when my friend says that he/she is gay, I go through several phases. The first is shock. The second is a feeling of uneasiness. The third is the taming of that feeling when I tell myself that we're all human beings and sexual orientation should not be detrimental to our friendship.

Everyone reacts differently to a change in their life, but the fact of the matter is [i]we all respond to change.[/i] If someone were to erect a statue of Joey Ramone in their yard and "tolerate" it, many would still raise a brow at first. It would probably take a few weeks of getting used to if you were to choose the route of tolerance simply because it's a change in our lives. All I'm trying to say is that the reaction to change is simply human nature.

[QUOTE]This, for me, is exactly the thing that's so difficult. What do we consider the best response to a friend admitting to us that they're gay, or switching to Buddhism, or (for that matter) painting their house hot pink? We "accept" it and continue the friendship. But you have to see the danger in this: by tolerating their homosexuality and then continuing on as normal, aren't we basically [i]trivializing[/i] that homosexuality? (And don't misunderstand me as saying that I think that, when this happens, we should approach our friends afterwards as if they had a gigantic "GAY" flag hanging off of them)[/QUOTE]
Trivializing? Not exactly. We are acknowledging that difference and continuing to regard that person as a human worthy of respect. I accept others despite their ethnic backgrounds... does this trivialize these ethnic backgrounds if I don't care if my friends are white or black? Yes? No? It really doesn't matter. The point is that I take the differences of others (unless it's something ridiculous like being racist), accept them, and let it be a part of my life.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I disagree with the word 'trivialize.' It makes it sound like it obliterates differences when I accept them, which is certainly not the case.

[QUOTE]Here's my worry, if I could sum it up: by merely "tolerating" other religions, sexualities, ethnicities, etc., we just gather them up into acceptance (i.e. resignation) without ever actually confronting what they might mean and what they might say. This is not a question about our thinking that our "culture" is superior, or even that all others are really just the same as ours, it's about not even wondering what the differences [i]are[/i] at their core. If we still react to the different, as you say, I think it's typically to [i]reassure[/i] ourselves that there's really no big difference after all, e.g. that I don't really need to seriously consider my friend in light of his sexuality, and so his being gay is a change that I can handle easily. It's not that we ignore things or that we don't care (apathy), it's that we accept them as if they had no weight.[/QUOTE]
Oh, now we get to what exactly you meant. The basic problem is that our defintions of acceptance were off by miles. I do not mean resignation when I accept someone. I would look at my friend in a different light if they were to tell me they were gay, however this light would not be a negative one. Of course things change when new variables are added into an equation. However, this change doesn't make me dislike them. Yes, what happens in the end is that I reassure myself that we're both human beings and therefore worthy of respect and dignity.

I'm not going to lie. If a best friend were to tell me they were gay, I don't think I'd handle it easily. It would be a stunning bit of information, but in the end what's most important is that I don't let that information hurt my friendship.

[QUOTE]Now, it would be far worse than a mistake if we were to go back from tolerance into the "stake-burning" that you rightfully criticize - although I suspect a couple of us are going to end up heading that way. But I think mere tolerance is only going to get us so far, and history isn't going to be kind to us if we can't figure out how to get past it. Anyways, sorry about the long posts - I'm worried about being misunderstood on this, although I might as well go ahead and accept being told that I'm talking about how political correctness is bad.[/QUOTE]
Well, I think we've resolved this (unless I misunderstood). Blind, point-blank tolerance isn't good. And yeah, I was wondering about that political correctness bit in Cygnus' post. Heh.[/size]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=SeaGreen]I?m going to go off topic a tiny bit here since understanding my background will make my opinion a bit more clear; that I?m not just another person knocking Mormonism who doesn?t understand what they are talking about. Anyway, technically I am considered a Mormon since I was born here in Utah and attended church with my mom until last year when I decided I wasn?t going to be a member anymore.

That stemmed from asking a lot of questions over the years and essentially being brushed off, as a rude child who didn?t know that children are meant to be seen not heard. It also stemmed from reading the book SunfallE mentioned. I already had doubts and that book just confirmed that I was not the only one asking similar questions.

Now considering that the book goes on the idea that the Mormon Church has altered their history and made a number of claims that are possibly false, I can easily see why others are making fun of Mormon?s. What would you think if you met someone in a religion that claimed they had translated golden plates when historical documents showed that the translated text most likely came from other documents that already existed? Your first reaction might be to think that the members are a bunch of gullible idiots following a cult. And for some that?s more than enough to justify making fun of them.

Is it nice? No. But being made fun of has never been nice or fair for that matter. As others have mentioned the Catholic Church has been picked apart for a very long time. As for being offended by shows like Big Love? Well as indifference already pointed out, it was never meant to be taken as being based on actual members or how the Church actually operates. And so long as they don?t use actual names or imply that it does I see nothing wrong with it.

On some level I?d just ignore what others say. Getting upset isn?t going to change their opinion, or stop others from making fun of the Mormon religion. I?m not saying it?s okay, just that getting upset doesn?t really change anything. [/COLOR]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]When it comes to tolerance I think it's also important to make a few distinctions. Religion is something that people are taught and it comes about as a result of many things - usually it's based on convention and tradition. It is a part of society's culture, but not really a part of society's biology.

So I think it's one thing to be tolerant of something biological (ie: something someone can't help - their race, gender, sexuality, whatever), but it's different to be tolerant of someone's [i]ideas[/i] and philosophies.

Of course, I do think it's important to allow free speech and to be tolerant of different belief systems, so long as they do not impede on others. But I suppose I'm saying that it's quite different to reject an idea or a concept, as opposed to simply rejecting a core part of someone's humanity.

If you are religious and you are offended by people questioning a religious organization or its system of principles, then I would say you should consider how closely you adhere to those principles. If you truly believe in them and they match your world view, then I wouldn't be threatened by what others say - they can have their view, you can have yours. I think the only time this becomes a problem is when people start really excluding others based on this sort of stuff.[/font]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][QUOTE=Grace][SIZE=1]For those of you who asked about this, I'll answer it as simple as I can. I work for a internet game community for teens around the world. Each Country (Hotel) has their own moderation team, who are to send in a report about serious offenders against our game rules. I am to go over the reports, and this one report happened to catch my eye.

I hope that is what you were asking.Sorry if I made it out to sound like a "Earth shattering event", for those were not my intentions at all. I simply wanted to bring up that the fact that people making fun of Mormons is starting to become more and more popular.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]Ah, that explains a lot. I live in Provo, Utah and I was a bit confused since I didn't recall seeing anything that fit what you had mentioned.

So long as it's not a case of being excluded due to being Mormon and just a case of tasteless jokes, I wouldn't worry too much. It's unfortunate but there will always been people who poke fun at others and if it's not over their religion, they'll just find something else.

If it is a case of harassment, then I assume you can report them to the appropriate person in the Internet game? It's one thing to make a tasteless joke but if they are constantly bothering say you or another member since they are Mormon, at that point they might need a reminder that harassing other members isn't a good idea.[/COLOR]

[John]

Having a sense of humor about yourself is always a very valuable asset to living, in my opinion. If you always look at yourself and other people or organizations you're connected to with a serious, defensive tone, then... well, then things like this happen lol. I mean, hell, if only you could hear all the Jesus jokes me and another Christian friend of mine exchange.

It [i]is[/i] different, though, if they're making those jokes with genuinely hateful intent. In that case, you just have to grin and bear it. Remember that somewhere in the world, a lot more people hate a lot more other people much more intensely than the person who's making a joke hates your religion. And people are [i]going[/i] to hate each other, so getting angry won't help anything.

As for people who ask you how many wives/moms you've got? They simply don't know that that's not a modern practice of Mormonism, so tell them that. I can't think of a better situation for you to improve your religion in their eyes instead of just complaining.

[Ricin]

[SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS]So, I skipped most of page two and all of page three, but Zhara's glowering down at the computer screen from over my shoulder, so I better let her do her thing.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[quote name='Grace']I was just at work going over some major problems we have in-game. I was sitting at my desk and drinking a delicious Blended Vanilla Bean from Starbucks (^_^). Then I came across this one report, which made me very, VERY, upset.[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond]You know, unless they've changed that particular rule since I last went to church, you aren't allowed to drink coffee. [/FONT]

[quote name='SunfallE']The LDS/Mormon Church is infamous for keeping their members as ignorant as possible.[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond]Speaking of which, I remember how in Sunday school, the woman "teaching" us told us how tanning agents are in coffee, and if you drink it, your stomach will turn to leather. Now, I was only six, so I believed her, and didn't drink coffee for the longest time. But then I hit middle school and realized I had been brainwashed for years!

Now, I don't believe in any god at all, and I honestly don't see why anyone would. It's weak. But that's just my opinion, so whatever. I just don't think we should place blind faith in a figure no one has ever spoken to. And don't go quoting your messiah and prophet crap to me, because no one knows if they really exist. Honestly, would it be so hard to accept the fact that yes, we evolved from apes? [/FONT]

[Esther]

[QUOTE]You know, unless they've changed that particular rule since I last went to church, you aren't allowed to drink coffee. [/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]You're right. And if you knew what I was talking about, you'd know a Blended Vanilla Creme is a milkshake.

I just thought I would point that out.[/SIZE]

[conpiracymonki]

[quote name='Farto the Magic][COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Trebuchet MS][size=1]I tell ya, the mormons are like the sunnis of christianity.[/FONT][/COLOR'][/size][/quote][size=1]Except for the fact that approximately 85% of the world's Muslims are Sunnis, so that made no sense whatsoever really. Nice try at putting down Mormons whilst seeming informed at the same time, though.
[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][quote name='SunfallE][COLOR=RoyalBlue']The LDS/Mormon Church is infamous for keeping their members as ignorant as possible.[/COLOR][/quote][QUOTE=Ricin][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Speaking of which, I remember how in Sunday school, the woman "teaching" us told us how tanning agents are in coffee, and if you drink it, your stomach will turn to leather. Now, I was only six, so I believed her, and didn't drink coffee for the longest time. But then I hit middle school and realized I had been brainwashed for years!

Now, I don't believe in any god at all, and I honestly don't see why anyone would. It's weak. But that's just my opinion, so whatever. I just don't think we should place blind faith in a figure no one has ever spoken to. And don't go quoting your messiah and prophet crap to me, because no one knows if they really exist. Honestly, would it be so hard to accept the fact that yes, we evolved from apes? [/FONT][/QUOTE] Actually that?s not what I was referring too. When I said that they are keeping their members ignorant, I was speaking about how they don?t teach members that other religions and groups have a different view of what is historically accurate in regards to the founding of the LDS/Mormon Church. So often when a member runs into others making fun of the LDS/Mormon Church they honestly don?t understand because as far as they are concerned, everything they have been taught about the history of the church is accurate. So there is a lot of mistaken perceptions surrounding the LDS/Mormon Church as often anything that contradicts their view on how things came to be is suppressed.

I was not implying that they deliberately go around lying to people or brainwashing them. This thread isn?t about what LDS/Mormons believe, it was more about why were people making fun of the religion. [/COLOR]

[nezzyjean]

catholics get made fun of all the time. and bunches of people even hate us or misconstrue our beleifs. I am a catholic and, trust me, i never hear the end of that whole "molestor bishops" scandal or how i'm not even a christian because i "worship" the virgin mary.

then again, the only thing that seriously enrages me about these statements is the fact that the person saying them has no clue what they are talking about. so, instead of getting mad about it, i simply tell them what they have wrong, explain to them what happens to be reality in the situations they are referring to, then get on with my life.

jokes aren't supposed to be offensive..they're just supposed to make people laugh. (and believe me, i laugh at alot of catholic jokes, they can be hillarious) all you have to learn to do is not to take yourself (i'm not saying your religion, because that is serious.) too seriously.

these offensive remarks also come into existance because many people don't understand or know what the morman religion is all about. I know that i sure don't. All i know is that you're required to go to mass alot and theres something to do with some guy named john smith, and you have to keep food in your house...ANYWAY, people fear things that they don't know about, and they try to reject their fears by poking fun at it, or attacking it in order to build a strong defense.

so when you hear people talking about your religion badly, maybe just tell them that you're morman, and explain why you do what they're critisizing..therefore turning their ignorant remarks into knowledge about someone elses traditions or beleifs.

[MomochiZabuza]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]I try to keep an open mind toward everything, but Mormons...

well it's hard because I've only ever seen one news report on Mormons and it was some 2 hour special where the father had 3 wives and 3 children with each and he abused many of them and one was so poorly treated she ran away, but this time when she returned to her "village" the news followed her and the people in this particular city refused to be publicised.

Consuqently, the news had a field day and pointed out every single negative thing about the Mormon religion. People like me, who have rarely ever heard of Mormons, really have no other experience with Mormons so I assumed it was all true.

But reading this post, perhaps it's not? If Mormons would be a little more public and open and maybe point out the good parts of their religion to the press, perhaps they wouldn't be made fun of so much?

But like I said, I barely know anything about the mormon religion so I could be wrong about all of this, all I know is it was on the news and I shouldn't believe everything I hear.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[John]

[quote name='MomochiZabuza][color=DarkOrange][size=1][font=Verdana]If Mormons would be a little more public and open and maybe point out the good parts of their religion to the press, perhaps they wouldn't be made fun of so much?[/font][/size'][/color][/quote] "Mormons are pefectly normal people" wouldn't sell as many papers as "omg mormons have a billion wives", though, would it? :P

[MomochiZabuza]

[quote name='John']"Mormons are pefectly normal people" wouldn't sell as many papers as "omg mormons have a billion wives", though, would it? :P[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]
hmm yeah I guess you're right lol. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Mr. Maul]

[quote name='MomochiZabuza][color=DarkOrange][size=1][font=Verdana']People like me, who have rarely ever heard of Mormons, really have no other experience with Mormons so I assumed it was all true.[/quote] [/font][/size][/color]
[font=Garamond][color=SeaGreen]Do you always believe everything you hear or read in the media?[/color]


[quote name='Ricin][/font] [font=Garamond']You know, unless they've changed that particular rule since I last went to church, you aren't allowed to drink coffee.[/quote]

[size=2][color=SeaGreen]Umm... last time I checked, there was a difference between what you aren't allowed to do and what you aren't [i]supposed[/i] to do. Any memeber of any religion can do whatever the hell they like, it's just that they're not [i]supposed[/i] to. Mormons aren't [i]supposed[/i] to drink coffee, smoke, or swear, but some do anyway. Does that mean they aren't really Mormons? No. They are just human. Weak. Made of flesh and blood, just like everyone else.

Oh, and Ricin, when [b]was[/b] the last time you went to church?[/color][/size]
[/font]

[MomochiZabuza]

[QUOTE=Mr. Maul][/font][/size][/color]
[font=Garamond][color=SeaGreen]Do you always believe everything you hear or read in the media?[/color][/font][/QUOTE]


[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]uh, do [B]you[/B] read a whole sentence? Because if you read what I put ONE ******** SENTENCE after that I said [B]"I shouldn't believe everything I hear"[/B]

IN FACT, IT WASN'T EVEN A WHOLE SENTENCE LATER! It was the same sentence connected with a comma so before you try and tell me off or something you should read the whole post

SHOVE [I]THAT[/I] IN YOUR EYE! OH! YEAH THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!

...sorry I'm having a bit of turrets syndrome I am having a stressful day.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Esther]

[SIZE=1]Momochi, I want you to take a look at this post:[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]P.S. why do you seem so angry at me? It's just my opinion and you seem to be getting very worked up about it. I mean, I'm just a kid on the internet voicing my own free opinions and you all seem like you hate my guts, if you have something to say or you want to correct me (which I am totally fine with) I'm pretty sure you can find a less atrocious way of making your point.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Now look at your more recent post:[/SIZE]

[QUOTE]uh, do you read a whole sentence? Because if you read what I put ONE ******** SENTENCE after that I said "I shouldn't believe everything I hear"[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Hmm. It sounds to me much worse than my post. You asked me why I sound like I'm mad at you and I hate your guts, just because of my stern tone, yet you're over here yelling and cursing at a guy for commenting on your post.

I smell a hypocrite.[/SIZE]