Israeli action in Gaza

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Your Mother][SIZE=1]The [I]Middle East?[/I'] Don't, don't, DON'T point a finger at a region and accuse it of something a few people did. If you'd watch the news, you would see that there are Arab countries disagreeing with Hezbollah's actions. Saudi Arabia. Syria. To name a couple.[/SIZE][/quote]
He was refering to the fact that the middle east seems to have a habit of waging wars against Israel. Well, more like attempting to wage war. Israel should not, for any logical reason, be as dominant in war as it is. Hamas attacked Israel with terror, and Israel lost. They gave The West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians. Now Hezbollah is trying the same, and after 60 years of failed negotiations and constant fear, [I]Israel is ****ing pissed.[/I] And at this point, they have a good reason to be fed up with ridiculous idiots bombing their country. They just want to be left alone, and it seems that a show of military might is the only way to get them to back off. [B]Seriously, Israel could obliterate any of the countries that attack them. They're eventually going to go over the deep end and flatten a ****ing country.[/B]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1']Why? Why should we be angry at Hezbollah, not Israel?[/size][/quote]
Why should you be angry at the Empire, instead of the Rebellion? It's a relevant point I'm making, so think hard about it.

[quote][size=1]some [i]UN workers[/i][/size][/quote]
Oh, man, I know! I saw that on the news the other day and just about joygasm'd in my white pants. The entire thing keeps getting better and better. And you know the beautiful part? Most of the international community isn't prepared to step in and stop Israel, because 90% of the world knows exactly why Israel is finally throwing its weight around.

[quote][size=1]When a WHOLE F**KING CITY, and not just any city, the CAPITAL, gets torn down over a country's desire to find a handful of militants, I would damn well fire rockets in retaliation.[/size][/quote]
If that country were so distraught by it, why didn't they fire rockets? Oh,that's right. Because Hezbollah are the dicks in this situation, not the country itself, but the country itself can't very well exile Hezbollah, and Hezbollah [b][i]hides[/i][/b] in residential/suburban houses and such...so I can't imagine why Israel has no choice but to target key locations to smoke out Hezbollah.

[quote][size=1]The point is that this is a seriously disappropriate reaction. Are [i]two[/i] soldiers worth waging war? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't see how ripping Beirut to pieces and forcing people to spend decades rebuilding it again is going to solve anything.[/size][/QUOTE]
Maybe if you'd just spent 50 years or so trying to play nice with these people, only to have them turn around and be complete ******** to you, you wouldn't be so pleasant after they pull this crap.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Hezbollah doesn't stand down here, Lebanon will no longer exist. Israel's had enough of the crap; they're going to be ending it.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Your Mother][SIZE=1]Why? Why should we be angry at Hezbollah, not Israel? Israel has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians, and caused half the country to flee. Sure, the deaths may be labeled "accidental", but after almost four hundred innocent people have died in Lebanon, some American citizens, some [I]UN workers[/I], suddenly you realize that Israel isn't so innocent anymore.
[/SIZE][/QUOTE][size=1]Neither side is innocent. Both sides, both Hezbollah and Israel are being absolute idiots, however I can at least sympathize with Israel. Israel, as previously stated, as been [pardon my frankness, but] [spoiler]raped up the *** pretty hard[/spoiler] by her neighbors. It's ridiculous. Countries attack Israel, Israel hands their ***** to them.

[QUOTE][SIZE=1]Another thing. Quit spitting this idealist crap (Retri, I'm not talking to you, but to the general thread) about how inhumane and stupid Hezbollah's rocket attacks are. When a WHOLE F**KING CITY, and not just any city, the CAPITAL, gets torn down over a country's desire to find a handful of militants, I would damn well fire rockets in retaliation.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]I don't really consider Hezbollah's rockets to be anything more than a mosquito bite to Israel. I mean, what have they done? Killed four civilians or something? I consider them to be more idiotic and malicious for the following reason: [i]Hezbollah knew Israel would come into Lebanon swinging when they launched those missiles, and now the country's being leveled.[/i] This is why Hezbollah is at fault -- they launched this attack and really have Israel no other option but to attack. Would they sit around and be the chumps of the situation, still desperately clawing for diplomacy? Hell no. They're already hated; the last thing they need to do is to show a soft side, lest they be picked on even more.

[QUOTE][SIZE=1]Two soldiers, actually. But thats irrelevant.

The point is that this is a seriously disappropriate reaction. Are [I]two[/I] soldiers worth waging war? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't see how ripping Beirut to pieces and forcing people to spend decades rebuilding it again is going to solve anything.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]It's all about proving a point. I'm not saying it's right, but what Israel is trying to do is to basically tell all countries harboring animosity for Israel to get lost. Assuming this is their aim, I'm guessing it's going to work.

[QUOTE][SIZE=1]The [I]Middle East?[/I] Don't, don't, DON'T point a finger at a region and accuse it of something a few people did. If you'd watch the news, you would see that there are Arab countries disagreeing with Hezbollah's actions. Saudi Arabia. Syria. To name a couple.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]Of course I'm not accusing some average guy who commutes to work and has a wife and kids. I'm accusing the childish leaders of the countries who insist upon perpetuating violence... Palestine, Iran, I'm looking at you. I was also pointing a finger at all these ridiculous suicide bombers. I don't have words to describe the hate I have for them.[/size]

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE=Your Mother][size=1]some American citizens, some [i]UN workers[/i], suddenly you realize that Israel isn't so innocent anymore.
[/size][/QUOTE]
[color=crimson] Ha! The UN workers should have known better than to bunker down in a part of Lebanon that Israel is blasting the **** out of, it's common sense, the UN convinces me once again that it lacks that attribute.

I find it humorous and insanely grating at the same time, that the international community has been so swift to condemn Israel over this incident, when the response so far has been "go ahead, defend yourself."

Why shopuld Israel tip-toe around some UN workers that put themselves in the middle of a bomb ravaged area on purpose, did it not register to them this kind of thing could happen, you know, in a war zone?

[quote name='Papa Smurf']I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Hezbollah doesn't stand down here, Lebanon will no longer exist. Israel's had enough of the crap; they're going to be ending it.[/quote]
[spoiler]Judging on the suicidal nature of Hezbollah and their ilk...[/spoiler]
So long, Lebanon. [/color]

[Your Mother]

[QUOTE=Rapture Ruckus][color=crimson] Ha! The UN workers should have known better than to bunker down in a part of Lebanon that Israel is blasting the **** out of, it's common sense, the UN convinces me once again that it lacks that attribute.

I find it humorous and insanely grating at the same time, that the international community has been so swift to condemn Israel over this incident, when the response so far has been "go ahead, defend yourself."

Why shopuld Israel tip-toe around some UN workers that put themselves in the middle of a bomb ravaged area on purpose, did it not register to them this kind of thing could happen, you know, in a war zone?
[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Sure. Let's forget all the dying, starving people lodged in that war zone, all the crying, fresh new orphans, and all the people who can't get out. SURE! F**K HUMANITY and EVERYTHING THE UN STANDS FOR! WHY NOT?!

If an attacking army blew the s**t out of your hometown, and you were trapped in there with no means of escape, no food, and no shelter, I think you'd be singing a f**king different tune.

And the worst part is, Israel allowed the UN into the country.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Rapture Ruckus][color=crimson]
[spoiler]Judging on the suicidal nature of Hezbollah and their ilk...[/spoiler]
So long, Lebanon. [/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Up for a good genocide, huh?[/SIZE]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1']SURE! F**K HUMANITY and EVERYTHING THE UN STANDS FOR! WHY NOT?![/size][/quote]
I'm sorry, but the minute you implied that the UN stands for something is the minute I disregard everything you say. The UN is hopelessly corrupt and ineffective. Most are too concerned with lining their own pockets than actually doing something constructive...like stopping terror.

The United Nations hardly stands for humanity. Though if by "humanity" you mean making sure to cock-block anyone and everyone who's actually getting something done, because the corrupt stagnancy of the UN thrives on the status quo, then yes. The UN does stand for something.

It stands for complete and utter uselessness.

[quote][size=1]Up for a good genocide, huh?[/size][/QUOTE]
The destruction of Alderaan needed to happen. I see no difference here.

[Albert Flasher]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']A total of 230 Lebanese have been killed so far and only 25 Israelis. I'm not saying that Israel is targetting civilians, though it might be. I'm just saying it is knowingly killing civilians. [/COLOR][/quote][COLOR=Sienna]

Just something I wanted to say... Isreali bombs are designed to take out buildings and structures that the Hezbollah uses - bridges, radio towers, airports, whatever. Civilians, obviouslly, get caught in the way - but if the Hezbollah wasn't using those structures, there'd be no reason to bomb them. The Hezbollah rockets, on the other hand, are designed to hurt people. They're gigantic flying claymores, full of ball barings and shrapnel that tear off arms but don't destroy buildings. They're designed to wound, not kill. If you looked at the number of wounded people you'd see the numbers would be rather even.

I feel bad for the unarmed UN workers who got killed (One was a Canadian, so that makes me extra sad) but, as has been previously stated, the UN is so bloated and corrupt and bloody beaurocratic that it's presence in the Mid East serves no purpose, and the scouts had no reason to be where they were.

Funny how this conviently popped up just as the whole of Iraq has desended into a Mad Max society of gangs and guns. I think there's a lot more going on right now than just another little Mid Eastern war.
[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Your Mother][SIZE=1']SURE! F**K HUMANITY and EVERYTHING THE UN STANDS FOR! WHY NOT?![/quote][/size]

[color=crimson]If you want to aide humanity or find an organization who does aide humanity the last thing out of your mouth should be those two letters, lol.[/color]

[quote name='Red 6][COLOR=Sienna']The Hezbollah rockets, on the other hand, are designed to hurt people. They're gigantic flying claymores, full of ball barings and shrapnel that tear off arms but don't destroy buildings. They're designed to wound, not kill. If you looked at the number of wounded people you'd see the numbers would be rather even.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=crimson]It's not as sinister as that. Katyushas are half a century old and designed to be used for saturation bombing. You have to fire thousands of them at once to really lay waste to an area and I don't think Hezbollah has that capacity.[/color]

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE=Your Mother][size=1]Sure. Let's forget all the dying, starving people lodged in that war zone, all the crying, fresh new orphans, and all the people who can't get out. SURE! F**K HUMANITY and EVERYTHING THE UN STANDS FOR! WHY NOT?!
[/size][/QUOTE] [color=crimson] No, **** Hezbollah and all they stand for, if they weren't hiding amongst civilians, basing their headquarters in apartments buildings and whatnot, do you seriously think Beirut would be getting leveled right now?

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1']Up for a good genocide, huh?[/quote][/size]
Read my spoiler tag, and ask yourself if you should be asking Hezbolah that same question.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]My mom just got word from my cousin that my dad's neighbor's house was hit by a missile today. My dad's house shook and my young half brother and sister were terrified needless to say. His neighbor got no notice of the bombing beforehand and neither did he.

There are no militants in my dad's neighborhood. No one in my dad's neighborhood has ever given the Israelis trouble (and hence they have never been subjected to collective punishment either). Why is Israel bombing them now? They have done nothing wrong.

This is further proof that Israel's intention right now is simply to destroy Lebanon and Gaza. I know it.[/COLOR]

[Your Mother]

[SIZE=1]What happened to the neighbor's house?

It cannot be denied that Israel is taking this way too far.[/SIZE]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I know I'm jumping in on this whole thread nearly two months into it, but this looks like fun[/color][/font]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f'] A total of 230 Lebanese have been killed so far and only 25 Israelis. I'm not saying that Israel is targetting civilians, though it might be. I'm just saying it is knowingly killing civilians. Its target is Hizbollah, but it knows civilians are in the region and bombs anyway without a single care. They give a "warning" for people to evacuate, but they bomb while people are evacuating and end up killing them. "Oh we tried our best" they think. Its because they don't give a damn about innocent Lebanese people.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy] Well it stands to reason that battles which are fought in cities and towns which haven't been fully evacuted that there will be civilian casualties. It's not that the other side doesn't give a damn about the innocent people, it's just that the bombs and missles are undisciminating when it comes to who's an enemy and who isn't. This is a fact of war- just look at Vietnam.

Plus since all terrorists are really weak chickenassed individuals they're hiding out in heavily populated areas and hiding behind civilians. Maybe if the town people as a whole banded together against Hazbollah they'd stand a chance.[/color][/font]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']People are only supporting Israel because they are racist against arabs. The idea that anyone can support Israel after how many innocents it has killed, after how many people it has tortured and punished unfairly, shows just how skewed people morality is. You still think we're all terrorists and we all want to kill you. Grow up and start thinking for yourselves, and stop parroting your power hungry leaders.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Ookay time out there. No seriously time out. That's a really false generalization. Not everyone is racist against arabs, I work with a few Musilims and made it a point to learn about Islam after 9/11. I'm racist against stupid people and that's it.

Have you considered all the times that Alquada has kidnapped civilian contractors and aid workers in Iraq then tortured and killed them on TV? They were innocent too. So was that nineteen year old soldier. Actually according to your religion so is anyone under the age of twelve. Maybe the terrorists should go read the parts of the Koran which explain the concept of good and bad deeds and realize that Allah doesn't want them killing people and warns against vengeance?

Again about the civilians being killed, it's one of the harsh realities of modern warfare that civilians are going to get caught in the crossfire. Especially against terrorist organizations on both the Isreali and Lebanese sides. Because as I said earlier terrorists are chickenasses.

I'm grown up and thinking for myself. I concern myself with the facts. And the fact is these people need some new hobbies. Basket weaving anyone?[/color][/font]



[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']People want peace in the region, but to the Israelis this means that palestinians leave them alone and let them carry on occupying and oppressing our people. They can hurt us, but we're not allowed to hurt them.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Then maybe everyone should get together and form a Palestinian state since this seems to be the big to do in the region since 1948 when Isreal was formed. They can make Jerusalem a separate area like Vatican City over in Rome .[/color][/font]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']Anyway, while I hope that no innocent Israelis are hurt, and while I am upset that Hizbollah's actions have brought so much destrution to Lebanon, I hope Hizbollah destroys Israel, gives them a taste of their own medicine. That'll teach Israel once and for all that it is not excused from the the rules of war. That'll teach them to stop collectively punishing our people for the terrorists they themselves have created from their constant oppression of our people. That'll teach them to destroy an entire country for their polical gain. An eye for an eye.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Doesn't the Koran have that passage about if someone injures you that it's okay to go after them, but be careful because someone else could be out to take out their vengeance on you? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that they meant that you should try not to start fights.[/color][/font]



[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']They only want Hizbollah out of Lebanon because it was Hizbollah that drove Israel out Lebanon. They want Hizbollah out so they can occupy southern Lebanon again. [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I say we get the whole country into group therapy so they can sort out their differences with foam bats instead of bombs. Who's with me?[/color][/font]

[Retribution]

[size=1]In the light of this Qana incident, I now realize that Israel is taking things too far. With 50-some civilian deaths and zero Hezbollah casualties, this was no collateral damage; this was murder. If there's going to be collateral damage, make sure that you're actually damaging the target so that the collateral is actually collateral.

Israel needs to stop the offensive and negotiate for peace -- this aggression isn't doing anything except killing civilians.[/size]

[TheShinje]

[quote name='Chabichou'] There are no militants in my dad's neighborhood. No one in my dad's neighborhood has ever given the Israelis trouble (and hence they have never been subjected to collective punishment either). Why is Israel bombing them now? They have done nothing wrong.[/quote]
[color=crimson] You see, these militants do not have a tangeable base per say, they're essentially nomads, going from town to town with their truck and missiles, striking from wherever the hell they want.

So while nobody in your Dad's neighborhood has given Israel trouble, Hezbollah probably has, and that has to be enough to strike when faced with an unconventional enemy.

[quote=Retribution]In the light of this Qana incident, I now realize that Israel is taking things too far. With 50-some civilian deaths and zero Hezbollah casualties, this was no collateral damage; this was murder. If there's going to be collateral damage, make sure that you're actually damaging the target so that the collateral is actually collateral.

Israel needs to stop the offensive and negotiate for peace -- this aggression isn't doing anything except killing civilians.[/quote]
Israel is taking drastic steps here, no doubt. While this is every bit as unwanted as the Katyusha strikes on Israel, they simply cannot let up. Hezbollah will not stop until Israel leaves Southern Lebanon, Israel will not stop until Hezbollah is crushed and destroyed...fair enough.

U.N resolutions will not do anything here because neither side is going to let up. Both sides think that they're in the right and the other is the devil, whatever.

Lebanese people have a right to be pissed off right now, but their anger should be directed at Hezbollah and the actions taken by this group that started the conflict, and their eye for eye rubbish keeping it going. Anti-Israeli marches for peace are oxymoronic.[/color]

[Your Mother]

[QUOTE=Shinje][color=crimson] You see, these militants do not have a tangeable base per say, they're essentially nomads, going from town to town with their truck and missiles, striking from wherever the hell they want.

So while nobody in your Dad's neighborhood has given Israel trouble, Hezbollah probably has, and that has to be enough to strike when faced with an unconventional enemy.


Israel is taking drastic steps here, no doubt. While this is every bit as unwanted as the Katyusha strikes on Israel, they simply cannot let up. Hezbollah will not stop until Israel leaves Southern Lebanon, Israel will not stop until Hezbollah is crushed and destroyed...fair enough.

U.N resolutions will not do anything here because neither side is going to let up. Both sides think that they're in the right and the other is the devil, whatever.

Lebanese people have a right to be pissed off right now, but their anger should be directed at Hezbollah and the actions taken by this group that started the conflict, and their eye for eye rubbish keeping it going. Anti-Israeli marches for peace are oxymoronic.[/color][/QUOTE]


[SIZE=1]What, are you saying they don't have a right to be mad at the immediate threat? They'd be [I]idiots[/I] if they weren't mad at Israel. After all, who's the side opposing the cease-fire? Who's the side bombing roads and bridges to prevent people from fleeing the country? And do you really think that measures like those will help them fight Hezbollah?[/SIZE]

[TheShinje]

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1'] After all, who's the side opposing the cease-fire? [/size][/quote]
[color=crimson] I have not seen either Hezbollah or Israel talk of an unconditional cease-fire.


The anger should be directed at Hezbollah, Iran's little attack dog that couldn't care less about the Lebanese people they cower behind. It's their rockets and the continued launching of them that digs Lebanon into a bigger, deeper hole.

Can't you see that?[/color]

[Your Mother]

[QUOTE=Shinje][color=crimson] I have not seen either Hezbollah or Israel talk of an unconditional cease-fire.


The anger should be directed at Hezbollah, Iran's little attack dog that couldn't care less about the Lebanese people they cower behind. It's their rockets and the continued launching of them that digs Lebanon into a bigger, deeper hole.

Can't you see that?[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]
It's actually been the UN talking of a cease-fire, only the US has been dragging its feet and Israel just straight up doesn't want one.

Yeah, Hezbollah does take a share of the blame. Actually, a lot. I would be mad too if someone got me in trouble.

But I would also be really, [I]really[/I] mad at the guy who blew up my home or my car when he had [I]no right at all[/I] to do it. The fact remains that, Israel's intelligence is ****. They don't have a clue where Hezbollah is hiding. They have no idea at all who they're shooting at. It's like a blindfolded guy taking random potshots at a room ful of people, hoping he'll hit the right one.

Btw, Hoodwinked kicks major booty. I just watched it last night.
[/SIZE]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][QUOTE=Shinje][color=crimson] You see, these militants do not have a tangeable base per say, they're essentially nomads, going from town to town with their truck and missiles, striking from wherever the hell they want.

So while nobody in your Dad's neighborhood has given Israel trouble, Hezbollah probably has, and that has to be enough to strike when faced with an unconventional enemy.[/color][/QUOTE]Umm, my Dad lives in [B]Gaza[/B], not lebanon. Hamas isn't firing missiles, Hizbollah is, and therefore there is no reason to bomb any civilian houses in Gaza, because there are no rockets being fired from Gaza at all. All Hamas did was kidnap that one soldier, and bombing houses is certainly not going to get him back alive.[/COLOR]

[Papa Smurf]

You know...I've been following the news a lot lately and the only thing I can say now in response to the "Israel is taking things too far!!1!1 And they're not playing fair or nice!1!1!" kinds of posts is Tough Sh-t.

Look, people. You call for cease-fire? You call for peace agreements? People talk about how the U.N. has the power to stop this, but the USA and Israel are impeding progress?

We really, really need to clear up some things about the UN.

1. Their resolutions mean absolutely nothing. You remember that scene from Team America: World Police where Hans Blix confronted Kim Jong Il? That's probably the most truthful and honest representation of the UN in film history.

[quote][b][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005295/"]Hans Blix[/url][/b]: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
[b][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005295/"]Kim Jong Il[/url][/b]: Or else what?
[b][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005295/"]Hans Blix[/url][/b]: Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.[/quote]
The UN has no teeth, people. Iran [b]REJECTED[/b] security resolution 4551 (or whatever number it was) [b]IMMEDIATELY[/b]. Those declarations coming from the UN aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. The fact that I don't even know what number those security resolutions are up to by now is extremely telling regarding the effectiveness of the UN.

2. The UN is a real life Jedi Council.

Compare the two organizations. You'll see what I'm talking about. They're both comprised of little more than bureaucrats with their thumbs up their *****.

3. The UN stands in the way of peace and progress. They grief nations when it's convenient for them, or when said nations actually take the initiative for once and do what needs to be done.

Why do you think the UN is giving Iran a simple slap on the wrist?

Why do you think the UN can't do jack when dealing with Kim Jong Il?

Why did Saddam Hussein [i]continually[/i] flip them off politically for years?

Why did the US decide to screw the UN and take military action across the globe?

Why did Israel take the fight into their own hands and begin a long-overdue purge?

All of that is because the UN has their priorities completely screwed up when they have priorities to begin with.

You people want reality? This is reality. And this reality is that this war will only end when there is absolutely nothing remaining, or until Hezbollah relinquishes the captured soldiers.

No UN resolution will stop it.

Outside interference will be met with severe consequences (incidentally, the only outside interference we'll be seeing is from Syria or Iran, and Israel alone will decimate them).

Cease-fires will not solve the problem, because we've passed the Point of No Return.

Any bullsh-t you hear from Condi Rice is prepared public-speak and will never reflect what's actually happening and what's going to actually happen.

You know what else I find interesting? The story about the mouse and the cookie. We all know how it goes. Give a mouse a cookie, and he'll want a glass of milk. Give him a glass of milk...etc.

Israel has tried giving the mouse a cookie numerous times in the past and catered to damn near every one of that mouse's whims. No more, not any longer. They're going to blow the mouse's head off, folks, and the mouse deserves it.

[Your Mother]

[QUOTE=Papa Smurf]

You people want reality? This is reality. And this reality is that this war will only end when there is absolutely nothing remaining, or until Hezbollah relinquishes the captured soldiers.

No UN resolution will stop it.

Outside interference will be met with severe consequences (incidentally, the only outside interference we'll be seeing is from Syria or Iran, and Israel alone will decimate them). [/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]First off, if Iran and Syria got involved? That would drag everyone into World War III, buddy. And if you're naive enough to think that Israel can stretch its army to fight against Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah.....well, if that happened, you could kiss Israel goodbye, 'cuz, unlike Lebanon, Iran and Syria have [I]militaries [/I] and air forces and even a fair share of [I]nukes[/I] (in Iran's case).[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Papa Smurf]
Cease-fires will not solve the problem, because we've passed the Point of No Return.

Any bullsh-t you hear from Condi Rice is prepared public-speak and will never reflect what's actually happening and what's going to actually happen.
[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]You're right about that. Hell, America actually [I]wants[/I] this to happen. All the goddamn Republicans and conservatives running Capitol Hill are probably throwing beer blasts right now. God knows Washington alone is more corrupt than a hard disk full of viruses.[/SIZE]


[QUOTE=Papa Smurf]
You know what else I find interesting? The story about the mouse and the cookie. We all know how it goes. Give a mouse a cookie, and he'll want a glass of milk. Give him a glass of milk...etc.

Israel has tried giving the mouse a cookie numerous times in the past and catered to damn near every one of that mouse's whims. No more, not any longer. They're going to blow the mouse's head off, folks, and the mouse deserves it.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Haha. Ahahahahahahaha. I'd like to know where you learned your history, man. Israel may have more firepower than Hezbollah, but do you really think that the entire Middle East hates them just because they're Jewish?[/SIZE]

[TheShinje]

[quote name='Your Mother][size=1]First off, if Iran and Syria got involved? That would drag everyone into World War III, buddy. And if you're naive enough to think that Israel can stretch its army to fight against Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah.....well, if that happened, you could kiss Israel goodbye, 'cuz, unlike Lebanon, Iran and Syria have [i]militaries [/i] and air forces and even a fair share of [i]nukes[/i'] (in Iran's case).[/quote] [size=2][color=crimson] I seriously doubt Israel taking on Hezbollah, Iran and Syria would kick-start World War III, Considering that most of the world knows and understands why Israel are doing what they're doing. If Iran and Syria decide to kick stuff off against Israel, that's their perogative and they would most certainly pay for it.

Israel has the 3rd most advanced Military in the world. It's strongest ally is the USA, which has the most advanced Military in the world. It's naive to think that Israel couldn't wipe them off the map should the situation call for it.
[/color][/size]


[size=1][quote][/size]
[size=1]Haha. Ahahahahahaha. I'd like to know where you learned your history, man. Israel may have more firepower than Hezbollah, but do you really think that the entire Middle East hates them just because they're Jewish?[/size][/QUOTE] [size=2][color=crimson] History? You don't need to go to far back to see the mouse and cookie analogy at work. Israel gives Palestinians the Gaza area, Palestinians elect HAMAS to leadership. Hamas, the organisation more than happy to see Israel exterminated. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

You're being hoodwinked man, these militants like to play the innocent. They're keeping you in this collective hell by their continued aggression toward Israel. They're like the yapping pitbull that grabs on and doesn't let go. It's time for people to get mad, no, let's get downright pissed off with the pitbull here.
[/color][/size][/size]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Your Mother]And if you're naive enough to think that Israel can stretch its army to fight against Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah.....well, if that happened, you could kiss Israel goodbye, 'cuz, [b]unlike Lebanon, Iran and Syria have militaries and air forces and even a fair share of nukes (in Iran's case)[/b'].[/quote] Who's naive now? You should read up on those militaries, man.

Syria's best equipment dates back to the Cold War. Their air force is barely an air force, using out-dated Russian fighter jets from the 60s. Their ground force is even worse; they've got ancient tanks locked in defensive positions that can't make a move at all without Israel noticing by satellite surveillance.

Iran is marginally better, having the only military here that can provide something of a match to Israel's. But they don't have nukes. They've got the basic barebones fundamentals of a nuclear [i]program[/i]. That's it.

Make no mistake here. Syria and Iran suck in comparison to Israel when it comes to military might. Hell, they suck in comparison to most nations. I'm more worried about Kim Jong Il's military than some desert bumpkin with a Soviet jet that still has USSR symbols painted on it. lol

[quote]You're right about that. Hell, America actually wants this to happen. All the goddamn Republicans and conservatives running Capitol Hill are probably throwing beer blasts right now.[/quote] I'm a Moderate. This view isn't some corrupt Republican POV. Bush, while a simple, simple man, sees the situation for what it is. Check out the (slightly) off-color comment he made at the G8 Summit, about "the irony of the situation is how the trick here is the international community needs to get on Syria to get Hezbollah to stop pulling this **** and it's over." He caught flack for that.

He shouldn't have, though, because it's the truth. Yeah, Bush is an idiot most of the time, but he's not evil, he's not malicious, he's not so corrupt to where he wants war everywhere. Don't buy into that Skull and Bones bullsh-t conspiracy theory spin; it's asinine and foolish. It's foolish to the extent that both Bush and Kerry were joking about it in the last election.

Washington is corrupt, I'll give you that. But dude...you think the UN isn't corrupt? The UN's best people are infinitely worse than the bottom of the barrel in Washington.

[quote]Haha. Ahahahahahahaha. I'd like to know where you learned your history, man. Israel may have more firepower than Hezbollah, but do you really think that the entire Middle East hates them just because they're Jewish?[/QUOTE] Are you dumb? What's your point in asking such a question? Have you paid any attention to the press releases/propaganda coming out of Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Al Qaeda, and so on for the past 50+ years? Okay, if that's not going to get through to you...if you believe that Syria and Iran don't want to see Israel destroyed...[i]why else would they both be providing military, financial, and public support for Hezbollah's goal of destroying Israel[/i]?

Dude, think about this. It's completely obvious. lol. The entire war stems from a 3,000-year-old [i][u][b]religious[/b][/u][/i] quarrel.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Papa Smurf']I'm a Moderate. This view isn't some corrupt Republican POV. Bush, while a simple, simple man, sees the situation for what it is. Check out the (slightly) off-color comment he made at the G8 Summit, about "the irony of the situation is how the trick here is the international community needs to get on Syria to get Hezbollah to stop pulling this **** and it's over." He caught flack for that.[/quote]
[size=1]The irony of this situation is that its almost exactly what it was like when America was thinking about entering Iraq a few years back. This time around, it's Israel, and now Bush wants Syria to talk Hezbollah out of all this. We preach the whole "Alright guys, settle down" rhetoric, when just a few years ago, the UN was giving us the exact same sermon.

In any event, I think that a cease-fire would be the best route to take at this point. Yes, Hezbollah hides within cities and uses civilians as shields. However, this does not make it right on any level to bomb indiscriminantly as the IDF is currently doing. When you bomb a target and kill 28 civilians and no Hezbollah, [i]that is a problem.[/i] If you're bombing civilian areas, you might want to get a few Hezbollah before you call it [i]collateral[/i] damage.

Leveling all of Lebanon, which is where this seems to be headed without intervention, is not an option. There needs to be a cease-fire to end the killing of civilians, be those casualties inflicted intentionally or not. Letting something like this continue is absolutely sick.[/size]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']The irony of this situation is that its almost exactly what it was like when America was thinking about entering Iraq a few years back. This time around, it's Israel, and now Bush wants Syria to talk Hezbollah out of all this. We preach the whole "Alright guys, settle down" rhetoric, when just a few years ago, the UN was giving us the exact same sermon.[/size][/quote] Back then, the UN was just as useless as it is now. The security resolutions meant just as little. Did anyone take the UN seriously? Did anyone take their "we're passing a very strong resolution" seriously? No. They didn't. Why? Because there was no way in hell they could enforce it.

Same reason why Kim Jong Il can be such a prick about things. There's zero actualized consequence, because there's zero unity among the international community in dealing with the pesky little bastard. In fact, most nations involved in the dealings, from what I've read and heard, are [i]reluctant[/i] to do anything. They're plagued by the same kind of rectally lodged thumbs that cripple the UN.

But you are correct in your assessment of there being an irony here. The irony is that the craptacular reluctance we saw three years ago is coming back and biting the international community square in the -ss.

It's always been a game with the UN and certain parties of the international community, and it's a game that Bush is tired of trying to play, and I suspect that Blair is also tired of playing. They tried playing that game back three years ago and what came out of the UN? A few meetings, a nasty letter or two. Threat of sanctions. Piddlysquat if you ask me.

And why do you think Bush made the comment he did at the G8 summit? Because he sees the asinine cycle continuing again, only this time instead of him being in the firing range, it's the Israeli Prime Minister. I guarantee you that if the UN game continues...that game where nobody wins and everybody loses...we're going to be seeing the same kind of necessary force we saw over the past couple of years. I know Bush won't stand for these piddly antics, and I suspect Blair won't, either. It's just common sense. You don't leave important decisions in the hands of people who can't decide.

As much as it's a funny joke now, you really need "The Decider" when it comes to swift action. That "Decider" doesn't even need to be Bush. It just needs to be someone or some group with the cajones to stand up to this stumbling group of airheaded ambassadors and lay out what needs to be done, instead of passing useless resolution after useless resolution.

Some are estimating almost [i][b]two months[/b][/i] before the current resolution is in a working draft. And that's not even taking into account the fact that Lebanon demands to send their own reps to the meetings, which does make sense, I suppose, but then again, who knows how long that's going to take, and if, when they get there, they pull some lame fillibuster bull to stall the process.

Honestly, I don't think that's so outrageous an expectation, either, because if you look at the common tendencies over the past few years, the groups that have stood in the way of action have been the UN, France, Germany, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc. It's no coincidence. These are nations who largely don't give two shats about anything other than themselves.

I'm a fan of diplomacy just as much as the next person. But diplomacy and finesse went the way of the dinosaur along with the Cold War, the former Soviet Union, JFK, and Mutual Assured Destruction. In fact, the new-age "diplomacy" is but a specter of its former self, now warped and twisted into self-interest preservation yet still being exercised under the misnomer guise of "diplomacy."

See, proper diplomacy helps a situation. It doesn't aggravate it. The "diplomacy" we're seeing in 90% of the international community just aggravates situations through apathy or indifference. That's not diplomacy, pure and simple.