Utopia; possible or not?

[nomad19]

Utopia is the ideal perfect place, socially, morally and politically. I admit it is a fictional island created by Sir Thomas More but the mere thought of a utopian society can end all the negative outlook we have about the world. Think of it, a world without racial discrimination,poverty,war, etc.

I wonder, is there still a slight possiblity that we could reach that kind of perfection?

[liamc2]

[QUOTE=nomad19]Utopia is the ideal perfect place, socially, morally and politically. I admit it is a fictional island created by Sir Thomas More but the mere thought of a utopian society can end all the negative outlook we have about the world. Think of it, a world without racial discrimination,poverty,war, etc.

I wonder, is there still a slight possiblity that we could reach that kind of perfection?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1] [FONT=Trebuchet MS]I'm going to loosely quote/paraphrase PM Margaret ("Maggie") Thatcher. The only possibility for a utopian society to survive or be created would be through the guidance, and absolute control, of a benevolent dictatorship. One can interpret the means of this in a variety of ways, religiously, politically, whatever.

Communism is basically the unloved backwards cousin of Utopia, as was Nazi Germany to a certain extent. Unfortunately, such positions of power can easily be abused by the opportunistic, as we can see from both those cases I outlined. Power corrupts otherwise unflawed individuals.

Democracy isn't much better now, but it means that there are an awful lot more of people and safety mechanisms to prevent such an abuse of power.

And yes. I'll save people the effort and simply say "OMG! GeoRge! BUSH!"

;p[/FONT][/SIZE]

[Dodeca]

[QUOTE=liamc2][SIZE=1] [FONT=Trebuchet MS]Communism is basically the unloved backwards cousin of Utopia, as was Nazi Germany to a certain extent. Unfortunately, such positions of power can easily be abused by the opportunistic, as we can see from both those cases I outlined. Power corrupts otherwise unflawed individuals.

Democracy isn't much better now, but it means that there are an awful lot more of people and safety mechanisms to prevent such an abuse of power.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Actually, the original concept of communism was supposed to be a sort of Utopian society, and if anything it was supposed to remove all positions of power. Supposedly, it'd be the end result of capitalism, which'd arise with the revolution of the working class. The thing we generally think of when we see the word communism is simply the poor, corrupted application of that original vision, and is more than a bit different from the original idea. Pure communism would be a society where the wealth of the world would be shared equally, at least in the sense that everything would belong to everyone. If it does ever get applied properly, I'll look forward to it. : P

Also, democracy doesn't really do all that much to keep bad people out of power. Germany had been a democracy before the rise of the Nazi's [I think], who had used the people's fears and prejudice to get themselves into power. A group can easily manipulate the system so long as the people are too short-sighted to see the big picture.

I don't really think a Utopian society can ever really exist, even though I kind of wish that it could. Things like that just have a way of going wrong. Theories and ideas are one thing, but we humans seem to have a knack for screwing up the real deal.[/SIZE]

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=Dictionary.com]

[SIZE=2][B]U·TO·PI·A[/B][/SIZE]

An impractical, idealistic scheme for social and political reform.

[/QUOTE]

I think we have found our answer.

[2010DigitalBoy]

No! There will never be utopia! Only endless centuries of suffering! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

No, but seriously. Why even ask. It'll never happen. Racism will end when one race exists on earth. Poverty will end when the poor die out. War will end when one power rises above the rest.

And when these have all happened, the leftovers will kill each other.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=liamc2][SIZE=1] [FONT=Trebuchet MS]I'm going to loosely quote/paraphrase PM Margaret ("Maggie") Thatcher. The only possibility for a utopian society to survive or be created would be through the guidance, and absolute control, of a benevolent dictatorship. One can interpret the means of this in a variety of ways, religiously, politically, whatever.

Communism is basically the unloved backwards cousin of Utopia, as was Nazi Germany to a certain extent. Unfortunately, such positions of power can easily be abused by the opportunistic, as we can see from both those cases I outlined. Power corrupts otherwise unflawed individuals.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Yes, the Philosopher King is the only way a utopia is possible. And although I dislike Thatcher, I have to say I agree with her on this one.

However, I don't think that absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think it does in an overwhelming number of cases, however I also believe that the goodness of some people's hearts is more powerful than the temptation for corruption and greed. I just think that the folks at the head of Communist regimes got there because they were corrupt in the first place... they had the dog-eat-dog mentality it took to get to the top.

We may as well close the topic now. Utopia is impossible for an inherently flawed creature to attain.[/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Personally I think a Utopia is very much a personal definition, after all different people will have different ideas of what a utopia should and should not be. To some people a utopian society might be very left wing and liberal, to others it could be very right wing and staunchly conservative. As to whether or not we'll eventually see some form of utopia, personally I think it will eventually happen, maybe not in my lifetime or even in the next century, but given the social movements and improvements of the last hundred years it's bound to happen eventually. Perhaps it will be a benevolent dictatorship, perhaps a theocracy, who knows.

As for communism, an excellent idea on paper, but add a human element to the equation and it can never work, some people always want more than they have and that's never going to change. [/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]I think it will eventually happen, maybe not in my lifetime or even in the next century, but given the social movements and improvements of the last hundred years it's bound to happen eventually. Perhaps it will be a benevolent dictatorship, perhaps a theocracy, who knows.

As for communism, an excellent idea on paper, but add a human element to the equation and it can never work, some people always want more than they have and that's never going to change. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Well, I'm assuming you're going off the conventional definition of utopia. And if you are I highly disagree with you.

There is no such thing as a benevolent dictatorship. Sure, there can be one, perhaps even a few Philosopher Kings, but all it takes is one ambitious, greedy person to screw everything up. And trust me, humans have plenty of those to spare.

That, and theocracy are exactly like communism in the respect that if you add the human element, their flaws are tragic.[/size]

[The13thMan]

[FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I personally disagree, i don't think communism was a good idea, even on paper. The thought of having everybody equal is a little ridiculous. It's obvious no matter where you go that people are not equal. It's a simple fact. There will always be janitors and senators. In no way is the janitor as important as the senator. So if the wealth was distributed equally then people with the hardest jobs would have no reason to stick with their job. If wealth were evenly distributed, very few people would be motivated to do anything amazing.

I think utopia is only possible in groups of alike people. If everybody in a group were alike then they could easily create a utopia. I think ultimate utopia can only be achieved through many small utopias ruled in different ways.

Later.
[/COLOR] [/FONT]

[pooperson]

humans were created in a utopia according to Genesis... and it didn't work out. so i say it's impossible.

[nomad19]

let's say that communism is based on the utopian blueprint right? everyone equal and equal power,it's just as impossible i guess i agree with The13thMan, it just wasn't a good idea.

I mean there are hardworkers and as I learned reading Faust, no human will ever be content with what they have. there will always be a hardworker and one guy having more income than the next. Intellectually no one will give in to that kind of system face it every kind of government system has it's own flaw, democracy, artistocratic, parliament , you name it.

maybe when we finally reach that whole "globalization" thing everyone wants to achieve the time when the earth itself is a nation, maybe...maybe it's possible.

then again God was right in the long run, we got too smart if Eve didn't eat that forbidden fruit, yeah we might not have technology but we may be living in that perfect Utopian society...

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Well, I'm assuming you're going off the conventional definition of utopia. And if you are I highly disagree with you.

There is no such thing as a benevolent dictatorship. Sure, there can be one, perhaps even a few Philosopher Kings, but all it takes is one ambitious, greedy person to screw everything up. And trust me, humans have plenty of those to spare.

That, and theocracy are exactly like communism in the respect that if you add the human element, their flaws are tragic.[/size][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Well a utopia Retri is basically a perfect society, I know the current incarnation of the word has come to mean a governing system too optimistic to be achieved, but the base meaning of utopia is a perfect society. Now what I was saying is that different people have different ideas as to what "perfection" is, and perhaps therein lies the problem, however given humanity's ability to move beyond simply differences for the betterment of society I personally think it is pessimistic to assume that humanity will never achieve a harmonious and good society. Maybe I'm wrong but I think there are more good people to the world than bad.

As for whether this society would be communist of theocratic, well I was merely giving examples of what shape it might take. It all depends on the leaders, benevolent dictatorships can be destroyed by a single monarch, but just as easily a country can be ruined by a bad politically elected leader. As I said it all depends on the person in charge. [/SIZE]

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Is utopia possible? I'm inclined to say no, it's not - it's simply too unlikely.

And, to tell you the truth, I don't particularily want a utopia. Think about it - what IS a utopia? It's a society where everyone has the same goals, the same ideals, everything is happy and nothing ever changes - it's perfect already. What happens to stagnant water? Yea. Humans - and, by extension, our civilization - grow through conflict. Through opposing ideas and wars. Look at all these inventions we have now - the computer, for example. Do you think we'd have Boeing 747's or Windows without the World Wars? Not a chance - we grew through out fighting. We changed and came out the better (Argueably) for it.

In a sense, a utopian society is basically a facist government that forces everyone to think exactly the same way - they'd have to, else conflict would surely arise. I'd rather keep my identity than live in a stagnant pool all my life, thanks.

Even if it were a good idea, it's still impossible.[/COLOR]

[Fasteriskhead]

Possible? Yes, but we completely misunderstand the point of utopianism if we only understand it as something that "might happen" to society some day. Utopian literature, from More to Huxley and Orwell, is best understood as thinking about what's going on in [i]the present day[/i] and then, taking what is seen there, spinning it out into an imaginary world to see what those things would be like if taken to the extreme. I'm not familiar enough with the work to make a blanket judgment, but I seriously doubt More ever intended his book to be a guide for a perfect society - rather, I think he was using the extremely alien ideas to be found in his imaginary culture to shed light on what was going on in the Europe of his day. It's worth remembering that More's word "utopia" is literally a pun that can mean both "good place" and "non-place," i.e. nowhere. It's not so much a question of whether or not these idealized societies might one day exist so much as how reflection on them helps to understand the present world.

As for the folks who think it's possible to mold a perfect society with will alone (which is what the thread seems to have mostly turned into), I would agree with most of the posts here and remind the "utopians" in question of what happened to one leader in particular who spoke of a "flag which we once tore from nothing."

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]As people in this thread have said, you're pretty much not going to have a Utopia simply because everyone has different ideas of what the perfect society would entail. Human beings have different opinions and perspectives, so clearly, nobody is ever going to agree on everything.

At the very least, in a democratic society, we all have the ability to live the way we want (generally). I suppose that's probably the best we can expect, given that we all have different perspectives on life.[/font]

[Guest Mythology]

i think that utopia is possible we as people would just have to stop doing everything that we do ok that sounds confusing let me explain.

let there be no more rules no more laws and just let every thing go with we all had the power to do what we want then no one has the power to do what they want it would just be survivul of the fittest lazafair or something like that i forget how to spell it but i think that would be the perfect world.

[Panache]

In order to have a perfect society all of the inhabitants must be perfect. So considering not a single person on this planet right now is perfect that alone makes utopia impossible.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=SeaGreen]Although Utopia is highly unlikely for the simple reason that perfection is really not possible. It?s still something worth working for with the understanding that you are not going to obtain ultimate perfection. So though I think it?s a pointless goal I still think it?s worth working towards getting as close as possible.

Everyone has different ideas as to what makes a society perfect, but I?m sure there is a common ground of making sure everyone has something to eat a place to live, etc. So even though we don?t reach Utopia we don?t give up on making the world a better place for people to live in.[/COLOR]

[Sojiro47]

An attempt of futality! People have been trying for Utopia since the Great Flood of Genisis! If they haven't got it yet, it won't happen! But I think we should make that attempt of futality anyway! It won't create a Utopia, but it will make life a little better!

[Tekkaman]

:animesigh I wish there could be a utopia on earth but for everything to be perfect... I don't think it could possibly work out in this lifetime. Men and women are curious by nature and rebel against conformity. It's been that way since man was created and will continue to stay that way.

*I do believe in a utopia after death, however. But that is a different story entirely.*

[Guest Mythology]

I still think utopia is possible because nothing is impossible it would take just alot of hard work to make it happen because of corse some jackass stands up cause he dosen't like your idea and when that happen put him down for the future a man ounce said "the needs of the many out way the needs of the few" and this case its true.