Korea launches 4 'test missiles' in less than an hour

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=#9933ff][font=Lucida calligraphy]

This news insert is seven minutes old at the time of the post:

[quote=Associated Press]TOKYO - A defiant North Korea test-fired a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, but it failed seconds after launch, U.S. officials said. The North also tested four of shorter range in an exercise the White House termed "a provocation" but not an immediate threat.

The audacious military tests by isolated communist nation came despite stern warnings from the United States and Japan ? and carried out as the U.S. celebrated the Fourth of July and launched the space shuttle.

None of the missiles made it as far as Japan. The Japanese government said all landed in the Sea of Japan between Japan and the Korean Peninsula.

"We do consider it provocative behavior," National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said.

President Bush has been in consultation with Hadley, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. The State Department said Rice will start conferring tonight with her counterparts from China, Japan, South Korea and Russia.

Hadley said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, which failed 35 seconds after launch. Experts believe the Taepodong-2 ? Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles ? could reach the United States with a light payload.

The State Department said initial intelligence indicates that the four smaller missiles included a Scud and a Rodong. The Scuds are short-range and could target South Korea. The Rodong has a range of about 620 miles and could target Japan.

The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. The preparations had generated stern warnings from the United States and Japan, which had threatened possible economic sanctions in response.

"North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday EDT. The two others were launched at bout 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., he said.

Meanwhile, the North American Aerospace Defense Command ? which monitors the skies for threats to North American security ? went on heightened alert, said NORAD spokesman Michael Kucharek.

"There's a lot going on," he said. "The safety of our people and resources is our top priority."

If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.

North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.

On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."

The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.

On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.

The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.

The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.

While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea. [/quote]

Ok well I'm sitting down in the family room this afternoon (I live in Western NYS) folding laundry and watching Judge Judy when the national news breaks in and announces that North Korea has launched three test missles one of them was supposed to be long range and landed in the Sea of Japan about six hundred miles from the Japanese coast.

This makes me nervous because I have friends who are in the military and I know how war loving our (US) president is due to the fact that we have too little military stretched too thin in two different wars. So now I'm wondering what Bush is going to try and do next along with the other countries about this whole missle thing.

I know that both the US and Japan have threatened economic sanctions against North Korea if Kim Jong Il persists and I also know that with his country in economic back slide (Is that the correct term?) and many of his citizens going hungry- although he feverently denies this most of the time- he really can't go without US and Japanese funding and food. So I guess all we can do is hope that talks will help and the fact that he relies on other counrties since his is so poor.

So what is everyone else's opinion on this?

And if you want more stuff: [URL=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_nkorea]Click this link![/URL] [/color][/font]

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] I really doubt the US would go to war with North Korea. The only thing that could ever drive us to war with North Korea was if they actually bomb US territory, which I also doubt would happen.

I'm guessing they're doing this for attention. Their threat of a nuclear attack on the US is a scary one to think about, but I don't think they're in any condition to really wipe the US out. Unless Kim Dong has a random reservoir of money hiding somewhere, they're not going to be able to do anything in the face of more powerful countries.

Or I have no idea what I'm talking about because I haven't kept up with anything at all. :/[/color]

[Esther]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]I agree with Lunox on this subject.

There is no need to be scared, this isn't the first time North Korea "test fired" a missile. As stated in the article, they even went far enough as to send a missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean. But then again, I can also see why you can be scared. The President of the U.S is somewhat obsessed with going to war. It seems as though he finds any reason to try and get a reason for war.

But as Lunox said, this will never happen (N.Korea vs. USA). If the USA were to go to war with North Korea, Japan will be sure to follow as well with other countries. So it wouldn't be a smart move for North Korea to start any kind of conflict with ANY country at all.

So don't be worried.

^^[/FONT]

[Aberinkula]

Besides a bunch of koreans came to my school. Nothing bad happened.

[The13thMan]

[FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]It wasn't smart for Iraq to get into a war, but it doesn't seem like it was really their choice. If a war were to start, America would most likely be the one to start it. Sure, we would have our justification for it, but it'll be us that makes the first major move towards war, if there were to be one.

Nuclear war is a very very scary thing to me. I believe nuclear war will be the end of human civilization as we know it today. As long as the technology exists we are all in danger of extinction. One country makes big weapons, then all the other countries have to make bigger ones to counter act the initial big weapon and so on and so on. It's really idiotic....but i see no other realistic solution.

I just got done watching Munich. Every person that the main character killed was simply replaced, often times by worse men. Truly, what is the point of killing? People need to change, not die.

Later.
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[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]13th Man, the problem is that (with Korea at least) we get a guy with lots of ambition and a decent amount of power. So Kim probably doesn't like other people "keeping him down." At least that's how I see it.

But yeah, just remember: An army marches on its stomach. If his people are starving, they won't fight. I think this is a job for...NATO! Let them handle it, its their job. If they can't handle it, they're incompetent. Otherwise, they're good. Besides, who says the U.S. needs to be the world's policeman?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[James]

[quote]This makes me nervous because I have friends who are in the military and I know how war loving our (US) president is due to the fact that we have too little military stretched too thin in two different wars. So now I'm wondering what Bush is going to try and do next along with the other countries about this whole missle thing.
[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think Bush is war-loving. This is largely evidenced by his response to both Iran and North Korea, I think (as well as the process that led up to the Iraq war).

In any case, North Korea is all about bluffing. They threaten the rest of the world because they want to get attention. I don't think they are going to attack anyone at any time soon, largely because they know that if they were to strike another country they would be absolutely flattened. If North Korea were to attack, say, South Korea or Japan, you'd have a whole line of treaties that would come into play. That would draw Japan, South Korea, the US and Australia into a war with North Korea...and that's at minimum. North Korea is happy to provoke that block of allies because they want to get attention, as mentioned earlier, but I don't think they'd go to the point of actually attacking a neighbour.[/font]

[MomochiZabuza]

[quote name='Ålpha-Æpsilon']Besides a bunch of koreans came to my school. Nothing bad happened.[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]Don't ever say that ever again. All I'm hoping is that people don't have a bad impression of all Koreans because of this. My Parents are South Korean and I was born in Ohio, I currently live in Charlotte, NC. I hope that you all don't think any less of koreans because most Koreans in the United States or other countries are South Korean because you can't really leave a communist country like North Korea that easily.

Besides, it was already declared that the USA, Japan, and South Korea will all be prepared to fire missiles back at North Korea if they try anything funny.

I though, South Korea is pretty wealthy, because they are a democratic union. North Korea on the other hand is communist and run by retarted communist leader Kim Jong Whatshisface, I don't really care. South Korea has completely different views than North Korea, which is why they refuse to merge or share any of their wealth with North Korea.

[B]Bottomline, North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different, please remember that.[/B][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

The way I see it, this actually could be a threat. But that's only because word of mouth has told me North Korea really hates the US. And there was that flash video '**** USA'. That was actually really funny XD

Anywho, I'm not worried. Korea could bomb us... war could break out... I won't pay it much attention following the commonplace mentality that it doesn't effect me. Of course I could end up dead. But that wouldn't bother me.

[Retribution]

[size=1]Am I the only one who heard Bush bark at N. Korea and say "There will be consequences if you fire any more missles"? What consequences are we talking about, and did he just say that so he looked "tough on foreign policy"?

In any event, I highly doubt a bomb will land on American soil. While it takes three minutes for our missle-defense systems to lock onto it, once that's done we [supposedly, anyway] have Star Wars which will in theory launch ballistic missles to destroy the N. Korean one. I also know for a fact that Kim Jong knows that we will annihalate his country if he tries anything.

In short, I don't think anything will happen. And although I live near the biggest target for any nuclear bombing (Washington, D.C.!) I feel the safest. I know that the government has taken extra precautions to protect the effective brain of the country.[/size]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#354253][SIZE=1][quote name='Farto the Magic][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]But yeah, just remember: An army marches on its stomach. If his people are starving, they won't fight.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]North Korea has been known to mobilize its citizens pretty effectively. In 2005, they were able to increase the labor force in the agricultural section by relocating millions of city-dwellers to farmlands. I won't be surprised if sometime in the future the structure of their society morphs into something like ruling class/military class/farmer class (complete with clear and unbreachable divisions, of course).

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] Unless Kim Dong has a random reservoir of money hiding somewhere, they're not going to be able to do anything in the face of more powerful countries.[/color][/quote]
If they maximize their agricultural production and exploit all arable land, the projected yield could easily support North Korea's 23 million citizens in a year and have some 2 million metric tons in surplus (and if you take in foreign aid, that number'll probably go up a few tens of thousands more). Their geologic setting is also favorable for mineral exploration and really cheap energy resources. If North Korea got its act together, they may be able to self-sustain and support whatever plans Dear Leader has for it and the whole world.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=MomochiZabuza][COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]I hope that you all don't think any less of koreans because most Koreans in the United States or other countries are South Korean because you can't really leave a communist country like North Korea that easily.

Also, just a little background info, South Korea is pretty wealthy, because they are a democratic union. North Korea on the other hand is communist and run by retarted communist leader Kim Jong Whatshisface, I don't really care. South Korea has completely different views than North Korea, which is why they refuse to merge or share any of their wealth with North Korea.

[B]Bottomline, North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different, please remember that.[/B][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] Um, what the hell. North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different? It's not the people in North Korea's fault that they are under the rule of Kim Dong II. Do you think they're happy about starving and love him or something? This the biggest load of BS I've read in a while.

Bottom line, the people of the continent of Korea are not very 'different'. North Koreans just happen to be dying because of a disgusting leader.

Moreover, I find it sad that you're more concerned about maintaining South Korean 'reputation' than helping your own people.[/color]

[MomochiZabuza]

[QUOTE=Lunox][color=dimgray] Um, what the hell. North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different? It's not the people in North Korea's fault that they are under the rule of Kim Dong II. Do you think they're happy about starving and love him or something? This the biggest load of BS I've read in a while.

Bottom line, the people of the continent of Korea are not very 'different'. North Koreans just happen to be dying because of a disgusting leader.

Moreover, I find it sad that you're more concerned about maintaining South Korean 'reputation' than helping your own people.[/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]Uh, I'm not sure which people you are talking about? Are you talking about North Korea? Or South Korea? Or USA? Because North Korea isn't what I consider "my own people".

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't stereotype Koreans (The trapped people in the North and South) as crazy missile-happy communists. I was only pissed because that one kid said that "A bunch of Koreans came to my school and nothing happened" like he expected them to bomb the school or something.

But you are right, I see that I shouldn't have sterotyped all the North Koreans the same, I meant to say Kim Dong II and his supporters. I also didn't mean to point blame at all North Koreans or anything like that at all or say that it's their fault, I do agree it's Kim Dong's fault but he is the leader of North Korea so when I said North Korea I really meant to say him.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Like everyone else here, I personally think it is highly unlikely that North Korea will try anything so foolish, as James said, this is merely a little "demonstration" from a country without the ability to wage a full-scale war. While North has a rather large army at over 1.2 million troops, I personally don't see it being able to win a conflict against the likes of Japan, South Korea and the United States, as well as whatever allies those three can gather. After all Kim Jong-il is seen as considerably more dangerous than Saddam Hussein, because he lacks the actual sense to see that he would get pasted in a war.[/SIZE]

[Esther]

[QUOTE]Bottomline, North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different, please remember that.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]No, not really. I think you've actually got the whole thing twisted, if there are two races that I think are extremely alike, it would have to be North and South Koreans.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE]Because North Korea isn't what I consider "my own people".[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]Just a little FYI. I hope you know that a lot of South Koreans have ancestral links to North Koreans. Some North Koreans escaped to South Korea before the North came under communist rule, and probably your grandparents or grandparents were some of those people. So I think you should re-consider thinking of North Koreans as "your own people." [/SIZE] [/FONT]

[QUOTE]All I'm saying is that you shouldn't stereotype Koreans (The trapped people in the North and South) as crazy missile-happy communists. I was only pissed because that one kid said that "A bunch of Koreans came to my school and nothing happened" like he expected them to bomb the school or something.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]What do you mean "the trapped people in the North and South"? In previous posts I believe you said something about South Korea being a democratic, free country unlike their Northern counterparts. So how on Earth could the people in South Korea be trapped within their own country?

And I don't think that the guy was trying to make it seem like the Koreans were going to bomb the school. He was simply being an idiot and trying to implement that there's a large Korean population at his school into his joke. I agree, it was a poor choice of words and there is reason for you to get upset. But I also think YOU made a poor choice of words as well.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[The13thMan]

[QUOTE=Lunox][color=dimgray] Um, what the hell. North Koreans and South Koreans are extremely different? It's not the people in North Korea's fault that they are under the rule of Kim Dong II. Do you think they're happy about starving and love him or something? This the biggest load of BS I've read in a while.

Bottom line, the people of the continent of Korea are not very 'different'. North Koreans just happen to be dying because of a disgusting leader.

Moreover, I find it sad that you're more concerned about maintaining South Korean 'reputation' than helping your own people.[/color][/QUOTE]
[FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I'd like to know how you know this. Have you been to North Korea? If so, then i'll take your word for it. If not, and you're just speculating, then i'd like to point out a few things that changes my point of view.

North Koreans are forced into joining the military for a certain amount of years after they graduate from high school. In the military i'd imagine it wouldn't take much for a normal North Korean male to be totally brainwashed into thinking that Kim Jong Il is next to God. Have you seen videos of them marching through the streets? It's pretty scary stuff, but to them it's life, it's reality. I personally believe that the North Koreans are very very different from the South Koreans. My mother is South Korean and that's the impression she has of them....but who knows? Maybe you're right and me and my South Korean mother are wrong....::shrug::

You're not South Korean, you don't know what it's like to be catagorized in the same group as a communist North Korean or even Kim Jong Il himself. But then again, i'm just guessing. Maybe you are Korean...::shrug::

Who came up with Kim Dong Il? Is that a joke or do you guys really think it's Kim Dong Il?

Later.
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[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Of course North Koreans are different to South Koreans; they are poorer and those who have been involved in any kind of education or military service are absolutely brainwashed. That's the difference.

But that doesn't mean there's some inherent difference in the people themselves. It just means that there's a vast difference in the societies of both countries. Considering that North Korea never accepts tourists or anything (with the very rare exception), it's a bit of a moot point anyway. Unless you've seen one of those "hidden camera documentaries", where someone actually shows you what North Korea is like, there's just no way to know because nobody's ever going to go there unless there's reunification (or unless the stalemate ends).[/font]

[eleanor]

[quote name='The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I'd like to know how you know this. Have you been to North Korea? If so, then i'll take your word for it. If not, and you're just speculating, then i'd like to point out a few things that changes my point of view. [/COLOR'] [/FONT][/quote]

[color=dimgray] No, I'm basing this on my gut, and I happen to think my gut is right. It's my strong belief that many of the people there are just like you and me. They just happen to be under the rule of a cruel dictator.[/color]

[quote name='The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]North Koreans are forced into joining the military for a certain amount of years after they graduate from high school. In the military i'd imagine it wouldn't take much for a normal North Korean male to be totally brainwashed into thinking that Kim Jong Il is next to God. Have you seen videos of them marching through the streets? It's pretty scary stuff, but to them it's life, it's reality. I personally believe that the North Koreans are very very different from the South Koreans. My mother is South Korean and that's the impression she has of them....but who knows? Maybe you're right and me and my South Korean mother are wrong....::shrug::[/COLOR'] [/FONT][/quote]

[color=dimgray] Ever think about the peasants on the outskirts of the country? The women? The children? There are North Koreans willing to face death in trying to escape from North Korea to China, only to be caught and sent back by the Chinese. Yes, I'm sure they love starving and watching their families die.[/color]

[quote name='The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]You're not South Korean, you don't know what it's like to be catagorized in the same group as a communist North Korean or even Kim Jong Il himself. But then again, i'm just guessing. Maybe you are Korean...::shrug::[/COLOR'] [/FONT][/quote]

[color=dimgray] I am Korean. But if I told you I were from North Korea would you really think different of me? I don't think it matters.

I have never in my life ever called myself a South Korean, and I have never seen the need to. The 'categorization' of the communist North Korea forced upon all Korean is nothing, [i]nothing[/i] compared to what people from the Middle East has gone through. While we're sitting here bitching about how "we're not the same" in our safe homes because oh no, we are getting [i]categorized[/i], a group of people just died. In any part of the world.

We should care about people not because they're of our 'race', but because they're humans. I don't give a crap if you're from North or South Korea, and no one else should either.

P.S. In addition to my angry post, to everyone out there: when someone tells you they're Korean, the first thing you ask shouldn't be 'north or south'? First of all, get over it, the North Koreans aren't exactly flocking the US trying to lay out secret plans, and second of all, you annoy the **** out of 90% of the Korean population.
[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]
North Koreans are forced into joining the military for a certain amount of years after they graduate from high school. In the military i'd imagine it wouldn't take much for a normal North Korean male to be totally brainwashed into thinking that Kim Jong Il is next to God. Have you seen videos of them marching through the streets? It's pretty scary stuff, but to them it's life, it's reality. I personally believe that the North Koreans are very very different from the South Koreans. My mother is South Korean and that's the impression she has of them....but who knows? Maybe you're right and me and my South Korean mother are wrong....::shrug::[/COLOR] [/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy] Man I didn't know that part. Although I should have guessed considering what a paranoid person Kim Jong Il seems to be. I heard that back in the early part of 2000 he actually ordered a set of triplets to be taken away from their parents fearing that they meant the end of his regime... I forgot what happened to them, but he's really not a happy person.

I've seen some investigations aired on CNN about North Korea- which is [b][u]very[/u][/b] different from South Korea. Although near the DMZ at some bases you get the usual protesters shouting go home US and how they want communism- but the DMZ is right near the boarder so what do you expect? North Korea is virtually bankrupt and has to rely on the aid of other countries. Yet when this aid- usually from UN food banks- arrives it's auctioned off instead of evenly distrubuted to everyone in the country.

It's not unusual for people to be lying dead in the streets from starvation and yet Jong Il is insistant on having everyone in the entire counrty believe that he is next to God and that things outside the country are much worse. He has all these little ceromonies and stuff so he can be assured of the country's good will. And if he doesn't have it then heads will roll- literally.

No one in North Korea is allowed to know about life outside the country and they can't travel freely. That is a lot different from South Korea.[/color][/font]


[QUOTE=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Who came up with Kim Dong Il? Is that a joke or do you guys really think it's Kim Dong Il?

Later.
[/COLOR] [/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Not I said the duck. I've been typing Kim Jong Il for who knows how long, my links all said Kim Jong Il and all the news people are saying Kim Jong Il. **Looks at her keyboard** Heh you can't even blame it on key placement.[/color][/font]

[MomochiZabuza]

[QUOTE=Esther][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]No, not really. I think you've actually got the whole thing twisted, if there are two races that I think are extremely alike, it would have to be North and South Koreans.[/SIZE][/FONT]



[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]Just a little FYI. I hope you know that a lot of South Koreans have ancestral links to North Koreans. Some North Koreans escaped to South Korea before the North came under communist rule, and probably your grandparents or grandparents were some of those people. So I think you should re-consider thinking of North Koreans as "your own people." [/SIZE] [/FONT]



[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]What do you mean "the trapped people in the North and South"? In previous posts I believe you said something about South Korea being a democratic, free country unlike their Northern counterparts. So how on Earth could the people in South Korea be trapped within their own country?

And I don't think that the guy was trying to make it seem like the Koreans were going to bomb the school. He was simply being an idiot and trying to implement that there's a large Korean population at his school into his joke. I agree, it was a poor choice of words and there is reason for you to get upset. But I also think YOU made a poor choice of words as well.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]Regardless of if they are my parents, I still don't consider them my own people because that's a personal opinion that I have free reign over.

Second of all, when I said "the trapped people in the North and South" I meant the trapped people only in the North, and then the free people in the South, but I now see why the wording was confusing to you.

And his statement can be interpreted in many different ways, regardless, I wanted to make my point.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

P.S. why do you seem so angry at me? It's just my opinion and you seem to be getting very worked up about it. I mean, I'm just a kid on the internet voicing my own free opinions and you all seem like you hate my guts, if you have something to say or you want to correct me (which I am totally fine with) I'm pretty sure you can find a less atrocious way of making your point.

Double Edit: Lunox, I agree on your part where you say that people shoudn't just ask if you are North or South, I personally say I'm American and when they ask where I was born I say "Cleveland" because I know they usually expect some sterotypical answer like "china" or "Ugumakatakanowa".

I'm not sure where you live Lunox but it get's really frustrating to be asian down in the south because first of all, everyone expects you to be chinese, everyone expects that you can't speak english, and everyone assumes you're related to all other asians. It's really quite annoying and sometimes it causes me to snap and exaggerate, the only reason I want poeple to think that South Koreans are Different from North Koreans is because I also want to be valued as an individual, not "An Asian".

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=MomochiZabuza][COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]
I'm not sure where you live Lunox but it get's really frustrating to be asian down in the south because first of all, everyone expects you to be chinese, everyone expects that you can't speak english, and everyone assumes you're related to all other asians. It's really quite annoying and sometimes it causes me to snap and exaggerate, the only reason I want poeple to think that South Koreans are Different from North Koreans is because I also want to be valued as an individual, not "An Asian".[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] I live in Georgia. A suburb, but that only means the prejudice is hidden and sneakier. It's always there, no matter how people will try to hide it. Even though at the same time there are also tons of people here who are cool with everything. Of course, I didn't always live in one.

I've gone through all of the Chinese stuff and everything you've listed, and still do, but if you don't want to be seen as just an Asian, you could just say Korean. I mean, I dunno, I really have never heard anyone call themself a South Korean until now. It's always been Korean or Korean-American, not South Korean.[/color]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]I've seen some investigations aired on CNN about North Korea- which is very different from South Korea.

It's not unusual for people to be lying dead in the streets from starvation and yet Jong Il is insistant on having everyone in the entire counrty believe that he is next to God and that things outside the country are much worse. He has all these little ceromonies and stuff so he can be assured of the country's good will. And if he doesn't have it then heads will roll- literally.

No one in North Korea is allowed to know about life outside the country and they can't travel freely. That is a lot different from South Korea.[/color][/font][/quote]

[color=dimgray] I don't know if this was a post written in response to my arguments, but I'll go ahead. Obviously the countries themselves (North and South Korea) are different: one is a communist dictatorship and one is democratic, etc. etc. I'm only talking about the people. I really doubt all North Koreans are communist loving people, considering a lot of them are starving because Kim Dong is using so much money on the military. I'm sure there's a fair share willing to do anything to get out of there. [/color]

[Raiyuu]

[font=trebuchet ms]I read an editorial that suggests brainwashing in North Korea goes further than just the education and military institutions. A journalist claims to have entered North Korea and interviewed some families in the suburbs (I hesitate to say 'peasants', but I suppose that's the technical term). Of course, that's where it gets fishy - North Korea is notoriously difficult to enter, especially for a member of the Western press, so I tried to take his findings with a pinch of salt.

What he found was that these people believe what they are told by the national media, because why wouldn't you? But the national media says that Kim Jong Il invented the jet turbine, the helicopter and the television, amongst other things. When asked how many countries they thought there were outside North Korea, the family conferred for a while before coming up with the tentative reply, "five or six?"

If this report is trustworthy then pretty much the entire population of North Korea is utterly unaware that there could be another way of life, other than the one they're living. They're like the people chained up in [url=http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm][u]Plato's Allegory of the Cave[/u][/url] [/Fasteriskhead][/font]

[MomochiZabuza]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]Well, a lot of times I say I'm South Korean just to save people the trouble of asking if I'm "North or South?" But then again I do call myself Korean-American a lot as well, it depends on who I'm talking to really.

Hm I'm getting a bit off topic, but on topic, I highly doubt NK will really do anything, I think they just want us to fear them and respect them as a power, although I personally don't respect them anymore because of this. Also, would you honestly try to start a war if three countries (all the same size or bigger than your country) allied together to fight against you? That would just seem stupid.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

edit: but then again, that's pretty much what Iraq did...

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms]I read an editorial that suggests brainwashing in North Korea goes further than just the education and military institutions. A journalist claims to have entered North Korea and interviewed some families in the suburbs (I hesitate to say 'peasants', but I suppose that's the technical term). Of course, that's where it gets fishy - North Korea is notoriously difficult to enter, especially for a member of the Western press, so I tried to take his findings with a pinch of salt.

What he found was that these people believe what they are told by the national media, because why wouldn't you? But the national media says that Kim Jong Il invented the jet turbine, the helicopter and the television, amongst other things. When asked how many countries they thought there were outside North Korea, the family conferred for a while before coming up with the tentative reply, "five or six?"

If this report is trustworthy then pretty much the entire population of North Korea is utterly unaware that there could be another way of life, other than the one they're living. They're like the people chained up in [url=http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm][u]Plato's Allegory of the Cave[/u][/url] [/Fasteriskhead][/font][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] I'm defininately not rejecting the idea that people are brainwashed there. All I'm basing this off of is my logic and what people who've gone to North Korea tell me. My family is pretty religious, so we've had a fair share of missionaries and preachers come to our house, and a lot of the time they talk about North Korea.

A questionable source, of course, but I believe them. If they've got the faith to go to a place like North Korea and risk huge consequences, why would they lie about the people? All I've heard from them is that the people they've visited are insanely kind and only hope for a better life. Whether or not they know who invented what or our world geography, they're not all brainwashed communists.

I have no idea about the people in the cities, though. I'm sure that's where the brawinwashing is the heaviest and most influential.[/color]

[Fasteriskhead]

[quote name='Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms]They're like the people chained up in [url=http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm][u]Plato's Allegory of the Cave[/u][/url] [/Fasteriskhead'][/font][/quote]Oh, hush. I know you only poke fun because you love me.

(don't get me started on Plato's [i]idea[/i] [the author translates as "forms"] thing, though, because I'll never shut up... although I would briefly point out that the linked author is quite mistaken in how he takes the 515b2 line. it's not that saying "that's a book" about a real book is wrong [which makes Plato into nonsense], rather the real mystery is that we CAN say that this particular book is a book [i.e. has the [i]idea[/i] of a book] despite its NOT being something totally unique and universal, despite there being many other books. for Plato the mistake of the cave dwellers is to assume that there are only ever particular objects, with no need to understand how it is that those "shadows" end up being the way they are)

On the recent launch, after you understand what's going on it ends up being kind of a black comedy. First of all, I recommend getting a quick history brief - Fred Kaplan wrote a [URL=http://www.slate.com/id/2144507/]pretty good article[/url] on this, and especially pay attention to the summary of the current administration's NK stance (hint: they don't have one). So, here we are today, with the six-party negotiations having stalled out, and Kim's decided to make a big show of his nation's fledgling power by testing a missile that, potentially (loaded up with a nuke warhead), could threaten major European capitals and cities on the U.S. west coast. Oh, horrors! Then, of course, the missile fails utterly in under a minute and NK quickly hedges its rhetoric.

If the test had been successful, or had real negotiations to stop the launch happened, things would be very different. As it is? Everyone's pissed at NK (especially the Chinese, I think), but they're also laughing their ***** off. Simply put, NK's saber rattling about its military strength can no longer be taken seriously. What's going to result from this test, ultimately? Probably very little, I'd think. A lot of noise and tough words, at the very most a severe cold shoulder from China, but not much else. The failure of the test does little other than continue to encourage policy makers in the U.S. and elsewhere to think that the NK issue is not to be taken seriously, or at least isn't something urgent (like, say, Iran). Which is, like any black comedy, actually pretty depressing.