Korea launches 4 'test missiles' in less than an hour

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Fasteriskhead']Oh, hush. I know you only poke fun because you love me.[/quote][font=trebuchet ms]I just wanted to belong :(

And yes, now I look you're right about that site, but it was the first Allegory of the Cave website Google turned up. I know my Plato, so I assumed that guy did, too, without reading it :animeswea

It's true that the long-range test missile failed miserably, which does indeed make North Korea look a bit silly. But their short- and medium-range missile tests went off without a hitch. So while they don't really have a leg to stand on as regards Europe or the USA, they still can (in the sense that they have the ability) launch against their neighbours. China and Japan are both in range.

I make the distinction of "can in the sense that they have the ability" because in reality they can't launch against China or Japan, for all the aforementioned reasons of retaliation.[/font]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#487659]Though China and Japan are in range, NoKor will not target those countries simply 'cause of the fact that [i]they can't[/i]. I mean, come on. They've been launching missiles over Japan for at least a decade now, and Japan's like 400 square kilometers large and under a thousand kilometers away. If those previous missile launches were all tests, then this week's missiles shouldn't have missed such a large target at close range so horribly.

Terrible, terrible waste of resources.[/color]

[Red]

Know sod all about North Korea - but just wanted to point out that there is huge difference between brainwashing and acceptance. In fact, there's no solid proof that brainwashing (in the utterly implausible, common definition that it's possible to have absolute decisive power over what a person holds in their head) is actually possible. Even if it was, doing it on that scale would mean no manpower for wickle missiles.

It [i]is[/i] possible to coerce, use propaganda, and generally swamp the populus with misinformation. Especially within a dictatorship. It's up to [i]them[/i] to decide whether or not they're going to question what's put in front of them; there's no Kim Jong hypnotoad replacing advert breaks on television to force every North Korean into thinking he's God. They have a choice, it's just whether or not they bother making one (or know that it exists in the first place).

[James]

[font=arial]It's important to remember that all media and information is controlled by the government, so the people are offered no alternative information. Under such circumstances, they really have no choice but to believe what they are told. You can call that brainwashing or propaganda or whatever you like - but the government clearly controls what most people believe.

Of course, there are still plenty of people who are in poverty and there are people who try to escape the country, so obviously there are still plenty of people who [i]know[/i] that they are being oppressed.[/font]

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] No, I'm basing this on my gut, and I happen to think my gut is right. It's my strong belief that many of the people there are just like you and me. They just happen to be under the rule of a cruel dictator.[/color][/quote][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Sometimes a person's gut is wrong...like it is now for you. Sure, the people may start out as the same as every other person at birth. But i believe a person is shaped by their environment. The environment of a North Korean is much much different than that of one of a South Korean, there's no arguing that.
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[QUOTE=Lunox]
[color=dimgray] Ever think about the peasants on the outskirts of the country? The women? The children? There are North Koreans willing to face death in trying to escape from North Korea to China, only to be caught and sent back by the Chinese. Yes, I'm sure they love starving and watching their families die.[/color][/QUOTE][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I'm sorry, but everybody joins the military regardless of where they live. All males that is. But you knew that, right? And sure, there are some people smart enough to realize that they are being opressed and they attempt to escape, but that number is very small. Ever read the book 1984? I imagine North Korea is a lot like that. People are all brainwashed and have no idea how much better life can be, they all love the government because they can't possibly love anything else.
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[QUOTE=Lunox]
[color=dimgray] I am Korean. But if I told you I were from North Korea would you really think different of me? I don't think it matters.

I have never in my life ever called myself a South Korean, and I have never seen the need to. The 'categorization' of the communist North Korea forced upon all Korean is nothing, [i]nothing[/i] compared to what people from the Middle East has gone through. While we're sitting here bitching about how "we're not the same" in our safe homes because oh no, we are getting [i]categorized[/i], a group of people just died. In any part of the world.

We should care about people not because they're of our 'race', but because they're humans. I don't give a crap if you're from North or South Korea, and no one else should either.

P.S. In addition to my angry post, to everyone out there: when someone tells you they're Korean, the first thing you ask shouldn't be 'north or south'? First of all, get over it, the North Koreans aren't exactly flocking the US trying to lay out secret plans, and second of all, you annoy the **** out of 90% of the Korean population.
[/color][/QUOTE][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]If you told me you were North Korean i'd freak out. I'd say, "how the hell did you escape to America?!", "What was it like in North Korea?", "Are you a ninja?! Cuz i see no other way you could've left North Korea!" My reaction would be along those lines, no joke. And it definitely does matter. It's like the difference between an American and a Cuban, but only barely.

So just because there is worse oppression out there in the world we should simply ignore ours? Isn't that a little hypocritical? Why...i think it is!! Omigosh! You can't simply overlook one injustice for another, you must look at them all.

I'm not saying North Koreans are worth less as a person than a North Korean, what i'm saying is they are very different from us, the South Koreans. And we should consider ourselves different because we are. What is a society without diversity?? Be proud of your heritage.

PS: I don't think people should ask if you're north or south korean either, it should be obvious. If you're a korean in america chances are you're from South Korea.
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[MomochiZabuza]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]Along those lines, (purely out of question), but how do people escape from China if china is communist?[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Panache]

[QUOTE=James][font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think Bush is war-loving. This is largely evidenced by his response to both Iran and North Korea, I think (as well as the process that led up to the Iraq war).

In any case, North Korea is all about bluffing. They threaten the rest of the world because they want to get attention. I don't think they are going to attack anyone at any time soon, largely because they know that if they were to strike another country they would be absolutely flattened. If North Korea were to attack, say, South Korea or Japan, you'd have a whole line of treaties that would come into play. That would draw Japan, South Korea, the US and Australia into a war with North Korea...and that's at minimum. North Korea is happy to provoke that block of allies because they want to get attention, as mentioned earlier, but I don't think they'd go to the point of actually attacking a neighbour.[/font][/QUOTE]I agree 100%. North korea is trying to inflict fear into it's neighbors. They know that I they go to war with us they will lose. We have a larger army,more resources,more money, and more allies than them. So I wouldn't worry to much. Sure they talk big but really their all talk.

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Sometimes a person's gut is wrong...like it is now for you. Sure, the people may start out as the same as every other person at birth. But i believe a person is shaped by their environment. The environment of a North Korean is much much different than that of one of a South Korean, there's no arguing that.
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[color=dimgray] A person's gut can be wrong, but I guess that's part of the reason why you call it a gut. :3

The whole nature vs. nuture thing is a good thing to bring up, but I also have varying disagreements with environments shaping everything about a person. It's just my belief that people will always carry some amount of birth-given qualities. Now the degrees in which said qualities will differ according to what kind of environment you live in, but it'll always exist. Everything I just said is an opinion, though it be a strong one. I guess this is where one of our greatest disagreements lay (or is it lie...? I suck at grammar >_>). [/color]


[quote=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I'm sorry, but everybody joins the military regardless of where they live. All males that is. But you knew that, right? And sure, there are some people smart enough to realize that they are being opressed and they attempt to escape, but that number is very small. Ever read the book 1984? I imagine North Korea is a lot like that. People are all brainwashed and have no idea how much better life can be, they all love the government because they can't possibly love anything else.
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[color=dimgray] I don't really know much about North Korea to be comparing it to a novel like [i]1984[/i]... I also don't know how many people are aware of their oppression. Heck, we right now in America could be oppressed and we'd go on living our whole lives thinking we weren't. I can't be the real judge of how the people in North Korea take in their surroundings, but I just think otherwise from you.[/color]

[quote name='The13thMan][font=century gothic][color=darkorange]So just because there is worse oppression out there in the world we should simply ignore ours? Isn't that a little hypocritical? Why...i think it is!! Omigosh! You can't simply overlook one injustice for another, you must look at them all. [/COLOR'] [/FONT][/quote]

[color=dimgray] Ignore? No. But I don't see the point in parading in front of everyon e that you are, indeed, a [i]South[/i] Korean rather than a North Korean. I guess the point I'm trying to get across is too large, seeing as I'm being too idealistic. I'd rather have it so that no one in the US would freak about anyone being from North Korea and accept the fact that they're not all evil or anything. [/color]

[quote=The13thMan][font=century gothic][color=darkorange]I'm not saying North Koreans are worth less as a person than a North Korean, what i'm saying is they are very different from us, the South Koreans. And we should consider ourselves different because we are. What is a society without diversity?? Be proud of your heritage.

PS: I don't think people should ask if you're north or south korean either, it should be obvious. If you're a korean in america chances are you're from South Korea.
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[color=dimgray] I just think it's sort of lame that we're so adament about distinguishing ourselves. I'd rather have Korea be one big country, not separated. I mean... we separated approximately 50 years ago after being unified for centuries.

I mean, what heritage are you talking about? When we talk about Korean heritage we draw from roots so far back that it applies to both countries. If we're talking just South Korean heritage and culture, there isn't much to add, other than our obsession with superficiality.[/color]

[The13thMan]

[QUOTE=Lunox][color=dimgray] A person's gut can be wrong, but I guess that's part of the reason why you call it a gut. :3

The whole nature vs. nuture thing is a good thing to bring up, but I also have varying disagreements with environments shaping everything about a person. It's just my belief that people will always carry some amount of birth-given qualities. Now the degrees in which said qualities will differ according to what kind of environment you live in, but it'll always exist. Everything I just said is an opinion, though it be a strong one. I guess this is where one of our greatest disagreements lay (or is it lie...? I suck at grammar >_>). [/color][/QUOTE][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Sure, people will always have those natural born instincts, but as far as personality goes i believe it's shaped entirely on a person's environment. A person is born without any memories or any real thoughts. As the person grows up he becomes smarter and starts to grow a personality. That personality is shaped by his/her environment. But it is opinion, and that's mine. It's cool if you partly disagree.


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[QUOTE=Lunox]
[color=dimgray] I don't really know much about North Korea to be comparing it to a novel like [i]1984[/i]... I also don't know how many people are aware of their oppression. Heck, we right now in America could be oppressed and we'd go on living our whole lives thinking we weren't. I can't be the real judge of how the people in North Korea take in their surroundings, but I just think otherwise from you.[/color][/QUOTE][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]1984 is actually a really good book. I enjoyed it and i highly recommend it. Pick it up sometime.

Well, there is one sure fire way to tell how good or bad we have it, and that's to go see how other people in the world have it. We have that option, the North Koreans do not.
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[QUOTE=Lunox]
[color=dimgray] Ignore? No. But I don't see the point in parading in front of everyon e that you are, indeed, a [i]South[/i] Korean rather than a North Korean. I guess the point I'm trying to get across is too large, seeing as I'm being too idealistic. I'd rather have it so that no one in the US would freak about anyone being from North Korea and accept the fact that they're not all evil or anything. [/color][/QUOTE][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I don't parade it, neither have i suggested that you should. I'm simply saying that you should make it known when the subject somes up.

I'd say the main reason somebody would freak out if somebody was from North Korea or not is because North Koreans are not allowed to leave their country.
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[QUOTE=Lunox]
[color=dimgray] I just think it's sort of lame that we're so adament about distinguishing ourselves. I'd rather have Korea be one big country, not separated. I mean... we separated approximately 50 years ago after being unified for centuries.

I mean, what heritage are you talking about? When we talk about Korean heritage we draw from roots so far back that it applies to both countries. If we're talking just South Korean heritage and culture, there isn't much to add, other than our obsession with superficiality.[/color][/QUOTE]
[FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Well when i said heritage i was just talking about general terms. A black person should be proud to be black, i should be proud to be South Korean and you should be too.

Korea, North Korea, and South Korea are 3 totally different countries. What used to be in North Korea has changed a lot since the communist party took over. I can be proud that my heritage leads back to South Korea and then Korea, but not North Korea.

How on earth are we being superficial by taking note of our fellow man's differences? Would you rather us all be the same?
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[eleanor]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]
1984 is actually a really good book. I enjoyed it and i highly recommend it. Pick it up sometime.

Well, there is one sure fire way to tell how good or bad we have it, and that's to go see how other people in the world have it. We have that option, the North Koreans do not.
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[color=dimgray] I've read that book three times already. It's a great novel, yeah. But my main point was that I can't be the judge of how opressed or brainwashed or whatever the people of North Korea are when I barely know much about it. And at the same time, I can't truly judge how many people know about what's really going on, but I'm convinced there is a large sum of people who do know. [/color]

[quote=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]I don't parade it, neither have i suggested that you should. I'm simply saying that you should make it known when the subject somes up.

I'd say the main reason somebody would freak out if somebody was from North Korea or not is because North Koreans are not allowed to leave their country.
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[color=dimgray] Right, another big disagreement we have. I don't think other people in the US should care so much about what part of Korea we're from, which was I brought up the whole me being too idealistic thing. That's a big change that won't happen for a long time, but it's just something I tell others they should do.

Of course that is based on me thinking others view North Koreans as anti-American or whatever, and I should take into consideration that some people are just curious. Mistake on my half.[/color]


[quote=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]Well when i said heritage i was just talking about general terms. A black person should be proud to be black, i should be proud to be South Korean and you should be too.

Korea, North Korea, and South Korea are 3 totally different countries. What used to be in North Korea has changed a lot since the communist party took over. I can be proud that my heritage leads back to South Korea and then Korea, but not North Korea.

How on earth are we being superficial by taking note of our fellow man's differences? Would you rather us all be the same?
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[color=dimgray] I also have a different POV of heritage, then. Most of our culture came from Korea, and we all share the same roots. I really don't see a point in saying "I'm proud of my South Korean heritage". I'd rather just say "Korean".

And by my line about South Korea's obsession with superficiality... I think you misinterpreted it. I was jabbing a finger at South Korea's pop culture as being overwhelmingly superficial. Moreso than any other country in the world, except possibly Japan.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][FONT=Century Gothic] [COLOR=DarkOrange]
Korea, North Korea, and South Korea are 3 totally different countries. What used to be in North Korea has changed a lot since the communist party took over. I can be proud that my heritage leads back to South Korea and then Korea, but not North Korea.

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[font=franklin gothic medium]There are three Koreas on the Korean Penninsula? That's news to me.

I tend to agree with Lunox. Of course there are major differences bewteen North and South Korea; they are two completely different countries. However, they do have a shared heritage and whether or not you choose to say you are "Korean" or "South Korean" is just a matter of personal preference. [/font]