PM Censor

[Retribution]

[size=1]Well, I was PMing a friend with a script we're working on which is riddled with profanity. Needless to say that the script was hacked to death by the OB censor and the script was pretty difficult to understand when you had to fill in the correct word with the number of asterisks.

In any event, I would like there to be no censoring of PMs, as it's an entirely personal function. There's no offending other people since it's not a public forum like a thread, and I really can't see any drawback by letting people have freedom of speech in their PMs.

I await the verdict.[/size]

[Zen]

[color=navy][size=1]

Seconded, seeing as how I'm the one that brought this to his attention.

I've kinda had a problem with this several times. I don't see the harm personally with allowing curse words in PMs if it is allowed in the Arena and such. Being personal conversations, I doubt they'd ever be offensive, and if they were, the user could always block PMs from the sender.

Just a thought.[/color][/size]

[Sandy]

But what about the situation when some jerk sends you a PM that's littered with insults and swearing? The censoring is meant to protect us from being offended by words, so in my opinion it should extend to PMs as well.

If you want to send aforementioned stuff to each others, why not use other methods such as e-mails?

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]Why not just make PM censoring an option? If you don't want to receive ****-word laced PMs, check the box, if you're cool with it and don't care, uncheck. [i]Problem solved, everyone's happy, why didn't you people just use email to begin with, Gawd[/i].[/font][/color][/size]

[Valen]

[font=Century Gothic][size=3][color=darkred]Personally, I don't see why anyone would raise such a deal on such a trivial matter. I mean, if someone gets a PM full of insults and swear words, then that person can get over themselves and delete the PM, move on, and call it a day. [i]Its just pixels making text and color anyway.[/i][/color][/size][/font]

Sorry... lol felt like Kuja there...

[2010DigitalBoy]

I friggin hate PM censoring. If I'm talking to a friend -- which is what the PM system is most commonly used for and by lots of people very frequently -- wouldn't censor myself. Thats just stupid.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Sandy']If you want to send aforementioned stuff to each others, why not use other methods such as e-mails?[/quote]
[size=1]The aforementioned stuff really is inconsequential. Whatever this 'stuff' is could be casual conversation. I just think that the number of PMs you recieve from a random jerk is infinitely smaller than the number you get from a friend.

The point is that it's annoying, and if some jerk were to send you a PM, delete it. I also think that DeadSeraphim's idea for the censor option would be a good one, but I'm not certain how easy it would be to code it.[/size]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna]Well seeing that swearing and offensive words in any format is considered spam, why allow it in private pm?s? Even if the pm?s are private, the pm system is still a part of the boards. It?s not like there isn?t plenty of other formats for sending such information. If it?s casual information, there are plenty of services like AIM and MSN that are free. Though I don?t know if they censor things or not.

Sure it?s easy to tell another member to just suck it up and delete an offensive message, but why should someone have to even deal with that sort thing when it?s not necessary? I?d much rather get a message that was mostly gibberish due to the censor than one that was loaded with garbage.

If any change was made I would be in favor of it being an option, with the automatic default being that the censor is always on unless you actually changed it to not filter out swear words. Though I think it?s a change that?s not necessary. [/COLOR]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I was under the impression that our software won't differentiate between regular posts and private messages, but I could be wrong about that.

Ideally, PMs would be censored by default, but there would be an option to diable censorship. In fact, this is probably something that would work well on the entire site - those who don't care about profanity can see it if they choose, but everyone else would be automatically protected from it. I understand that the censor can be frustrating if you don't care about swearing and I also recognize that we have a broad age range here...so the same rules need not apply to everyone.

Hopefully we can sort this out just through our regular software, but it may require some actual tweaking of Virtual Bulletin. If the latter is the case I'm going to have to get Justin to help me with it.[/font]

[Boo]

[size=1]Well, I don't see why anyone would want to curse in Private Messages, honestly, but if it messes up other stuff like codes, it's a bit annoying.

Anyway, if some random jerk would like to verbally attack you now, they could just replace some letters or whatever to avoid censore. It gets the same message across, and it's not like there's a mod digging in everyone's PM's to attack them for using other words. Ha... ha... ha...

[IMG]http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3199/bigbrother4ai.png[/IMG]

It being an option seems the best idea brought up.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[quote=indifference]Well seeing that swearing and offensive words in any format is considered spam, why allow it in private pm?s? Even if the pm?s are private, the pm system is still a part of the boards. It?s not like there isn?t plenty of other formats for sending such information. If it?s casual information, there are plenty of services like AIM and MSN that are free. Though I don?t know if they censor things or not.

Sure it?s easy to tell another member to just suck it up and delete an offensive message, but why should someone have to even deal with that sort thing when it?s not necessary? I?d much rather get a message that was mostly gibberish due to the censor than one that was loaded with garbage.

If any change was made I would be in favor of it being an option, with the automatic default being that the censor is always on unless you actually changed it to not filter out swear words. Though I think it?s a change that?s not necessary.[/quote]
[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]Do you get a good view from your high horse? Swearing is a fact of life in any medium. In fact some people - myself included - feel [i]completely comfortable swearing, and don't actually realising they're doing it because they realise it's just words[/i]. In fact, acting all indignant about swearing under the guise of protecting everyone else is just a transparent way of saying "I don't like swearing, I don't want it on my forum, not even in PMs I can't possibly read". Face it, some people don't give a damn about swearing, acting high and mighty about it isn't about to win you any friends. In fact, it just makes you look like an elitist tool.[/font][/size][/color]

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think indifference is being elitist; she makes a good point. If we don't allow swearing on the site, why allow it in Private Messages?

I think that's a legitimate point. But the way to answer it is to say that we'd have the censor activated by default so that nobody gets surprised - we don't want to rule out swearing and then surprise people by suddenly allowing it.

That's why it should be an option if it's included at all. It's not so much a matter of what people are comfortable with, I think it's more a matter of what we've promised and what we deliver. We can't promise censorship and then not provide it, you know? But as I said, as long as it's an option I think most people will be okay with that.[/font]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna][quote name='DeadSeraphim][color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]Do you get a good view from your high horse? Swearing is a fact of life in any medium. In fact some people - myself included - feel [i]completely comfortable swearing, and don't actually realising they're doing it because they realise it's just words[/i]. In fact, acting all indignant about swearing under the guise of protecting everyone else is just a transparent way of saying "I don't like swearing, I don't want it on my forum, not even in PMs I can't possibly read". Face it, some people don't give a damn about swearing, acting high and mighty about it isn't about to win you any friends. In fact, it just makes you look like an elitist tool.[/font][/size'][/color][/quote]Since when did stating an opinion put someone on a high horse? I never once said I was trying to protect others from swearing, I was only going on the basis that if swearing is considered spam according to the rules it doesn?t make much sense to allow it. Don?t start putting words in my mouth. I?m all for the option of it being a choice. Honestly, I could care less if you swear. But just because you are comfortable with it doesn?t mean others are.

And for the record, I don?t have a problem with swearing, but just because say you or others don?t mind, why should those who do mind have to put up with it? As for my comment about thinking it wasn?t a necessary change, that?s just an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. You have a right to your opinion, but I hardly think it?s necessary to be rude and make assumptions about mine.[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']I think that's a legitimate point. But the way to answer it is to say that we'd have the censor activated by default so that nobody gets surprised - we don't want to rule out swearing and then surprise people by suddenly allowing it.[/font][/quote]That?s really my only concern, that no one gets surprised by someone sending them a rude pm. [/COLOR]

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=Sienna]Since when did stating an opinion put someone on a high horse? I never once said I was trying to protect others from swearing, I was only going on the basis that if swearing is considered spam according to the rules it doesn?t make much sense to allow it. Don?t start putting words in my mouth. I?m all for the option of it being a choice. Honestly, I could care less if you swear. But just because you are comfortable with it doesn?t mean others are.

And for the record, I don?t have a problem with swearing, but just because say you or others don?t mind, why should those who do mind have to put up with it? As for my comment about thinking it wasn?t a necessary change, that?s just an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. You have a right to your opinion, but I hardly think it?s necessary to be rude and make assumptions about mine.That?s really my only concern, that no one gets surprised by someone sending them a rude pm. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]It's all in your tone. But hey, I'll drop the issue. [i]Because I'm cool like that.[/i]

Anyway, turns out vB doesn't natively support optional swear word filtering (how shocking, it rarely supports anything you'd expect), but I did find a plugin that could be used, if Justin has the time to get it installed and whatnot. Previously sweared swear words aren't backwards compatible though, since vB does that whole "turn it into asterisks [i]forevaaaaaar[/i] thing with the default system.

Aforementioned plugin is here:
[url]http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63875[/url][/font][/size][/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#354253][quote name='Sandy']But what about the situation when some jerk sends you a PM that's littered with insults and swearing?[/quote]1. Report.
2. Request for b&age.
3. Look back on posts and see how much of a jerk you/I/we've been.

An option allowing us users to turn on/off censoring... that's a lovely idea! Now we'll know who deliberately replaces them vowels in f[color=Red]u[/color]ck and sh[color=Red]i[/color]t with asterisks[color=Red]*[/color]. Also, ever considered filtering them problematic words into something else, like "YA KISS YER MAMA WITH THAT MOUTH?"

[color=Red]*[/color] [spoiler]And that, my dears, is the Antilaw card to the R6 Law: Censorship. Beat that, Ezel.[/spoiler][/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=Sienna']Well seeing that swearing and offensive words in any format is considered spam, why allow it in private pm?s? Even if the pm?s are private, the pm system is still a part of the boards. It?s not like there isn?t plenty of other formats for sending such information. If it?s casual information, there are plenty of services like AIM and MSN that are free. Though I don?t know if they censor things or not.[/COLOR][/quote]
[size=1]Swearing is not consider spam in the Arena to let people have more creative liscense or what have you. It's not like swearing is forbidden all across OB, as if they're a black plague. In addition, words like [B]Damn[/B] get through routinely.

Don't tell me to "just use IM" or "why don't you e-mail?". I'm PMing the person the message for the exact same reason everyone else uses the PM function, and relegating my problem to a "love it or leave it" stance really annoys me. Why have the PM function at all if you're just going to ignore a suggestion and tell me to get IM? What if they don't have IM? What if they're never online because of timezones? A PM is like leaving a voice mail -- you're not talking to a live person, but the message still gets there.[/size]

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][size=1]Yeah, this is one of those things--there are alternatives where OB's censor wouldn't be an issue, but the point of this forum [i]is[/i] to make suggestions about OB.

I would support a censor option/toggle. I'd elect to keep the words blocked for myself, but I understand why it's not an issue for some people.[/size][/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna][QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Swearing is not consider spam in the Arena to let people have more creative liscense or what have you. It's not like swearing is forbidden all across OB, as if they're a black plague. In addition, words like [B]Damn[/B] get through routinely.

Don't tell me to "just use IM" or "why don't you e-mail?". I'm PMing the person the message for the exact same reason everyone else uses the PM function, and relegating my problem to a "love it or leave it" stance really annoys me. Why have the PM function at all if you're just going to ignore a suggestion and tell me to get IM? What if they don't have IM? What if they're never online because of timezones? A PM is like leaving a voice mail -- you're not talking to a live person, but the message still gets there.[/size][/QUOTE]And ignoring part of my post is an equally annoying stance. I'm getting a little tired of people putting words in my mouth for me. I never said I was ignoring people's suggestion. I've already said that I'm all for the idea of it being an option. The comment about using AIM or other services was and is a suggestion, not a final judgment. Even if I was the one making the final decision I'd still want people to have the right to choose. You and others think we should allow swearing and I've said that so long as it's an option so I can have the filter on I don't mind. I wish people would quit focusing only on my opinion that I think it's not necessary. No where in there did I say it shouldn't even be considered. [/COLOR] :animesigh

[Sandy]

Well, this turned out to be a strange debate. :/

People are offended by those who oppose swearing, when it clearly says in the OB rules that all type of swearing is prohibited here. That includes deliberately surpassing the censors, [color=red]Delta[/color].

Now I don't mind swearing in real life, really. I do it myself, mostly when I get pissed off though. And in my opinion people should be sensitive about the company they are in before they start cussing. Otherwise, words can't offend me.

[I]However[/I], in OB I go by OB's rules. It wouldn't be a bad thing to make it an option to allow swearing in PMs, but as of now, swearing is not allowed here so I don't do it.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

Being a parent my first thought is to not allow swearing. However since there is a wide range of ages here it seems that the suggestion to make it an option would be the most fair. Then those who wish to turn it off can and those who don?t want swearing can leave it on.

If it is not possible to make it a choice then I am for leaving it on. It may be true that other areas of OtakuBoards allow swearing, but they also require a rating so that members can make an informed choice. If the rating indicates swearing they can simply not read the thread. PM?s that are rude or insulting aren?t always clearly titled to let you know what to expect.

Now a number of people are getting offended by the suggestion to use other mediums; instead of accusing those who suggest it of being all high and mighty, keep in mind that if the filter is turned off then those who do not like swearing are left with no protection. It?s the same situation of they would have to turn around and use something else to communicate with their friends to avoid receiving ugly PM?s just as you would have to use other mediums so you wouldn?t be censored. Nothing high and mighty about that, you both want the same thing, the right to either swear or to not swear.

[Retribution]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=Sienna]And ignoring part of my post is an equally annoying stance. I'm getting a little tired of people putting words in my mouth for me. I never said I was ignoring people's suggestion. I've already said that I'm all for the idea of it being an option. The comment about using AIM or other services was and is a suggestion, not a final judgment. Even if I was the one making the final decision I'd still want people to have the right to choose. You and others think we should allow swearing and I've said that so long as it's an option so I can have the filter on I don't mind. I wish people would quit focusing only on my opinion that I think it's not necessary. No where in there did I say it shouldn't even be considered. [/COLOR'] :animesigh[/quote]
[size=1]So I ignored the part about "If it's an option, then I'd be for giving that option," but in the grander scheme of your post, the rest really didn't corrolate. In any event, I wasn't trying to single only you out, your post just happened to be the one I saw first, so I replied to it. I was saying that in general, everyone telling me to use a different medium of communication if I don't like it is just overlooking the problem. That's what I meant by the 'love it or leave it'. Sorry if I sounded accusing or something.

As for everyone bringing up the possibility of some evil person sending you an offensive PM, I'd like to ask you how often does that happen? I believe I got one, and that's because I deleted someone's post. For the great majority of OBers who are [b]not[/b] moderators, when would someone give you a profanity-riddled message?

I just think everyone's blowing the mere possibility of recieving [i]one[/i] angry PM from someone, and deciding to just censor PMs based on that extraordinarily low possibility. I have a total of 1,155 PMs. If 1,153 of those are clean, then that means that 99.8% of them are unoffensive PMs. Is that 0.2% really enough to censor all PMs? It's ridiculous to do so for fear of that one fateful PM.

I can understand being offended by profanity. What I cannot understand is why everyone thinks someone's going to mail them anthrax or something.

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']Now a number of people are getting offended by the suggestion to use other mediums; instead of accusing those who suggest it of being all high and mighty, keep in mind that if the filter is turned off then those who do not like swearing are left with no protection. It?s the same situation of they would have to turn around and use something else to communicate with their friends to avoid receiving ugly PM?s just as you would have to use other mediums so you wouldn?t be censored. Nothing high and mighty about that, you both want the same thing, the right to either swear or to not swear.[/quote]
I don't believe I called anyone high and mighty if you're referring to me, the only one 'offended' by being told to use IM/e-mail. Truth be told, I'm not offended, just a bit annoyed that people are trying to dance about the heart of the matter by suggesting that 'solution.'

What are you being exposed to if the censor is turned off? Will your friends (who are the only ones in my experience who PM you) begin to start spouting vulgar language into your inbox? Please, someone tell me how often you recieve these said 'ugly PMs?' And to my knowledge, if you're talking to a friend, they won't curse at you if they know you're offended by it, and therefore there would be no reason for them to use IM/e-mail to avoid such profanity.

It just strikes me as an irrational fear to worry about a very select few of PMs offending you.[/size]

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]As for everyone bringing up the possibility of some evil person sending you an offensive PM, I'd like to ask you how often does that happen? I believe I got one, and that's because I deleted someone's post. For the great majority of OBers who are [b]not[/b] moderators, when would someone give you a profanity-riddled message?

I just think everyone's blowing the mere possibility of recieving [i]one[/i] angry PM from someone, and deciding to just censor PMs based on that extraordinarily low possibility. I have a total of 1,155 PMs. If 1,153 of those are clean, then that means that 99.8% of them are unoffensive PMs. Is that 0.2% really enough to censor all PMs? It's ridiculous to do so for fear of that one fateful PM.

I can understand being offended by profanity. What I cannot understand is why everyone thinks someone's going to mail them anthrax or something.[/size][/QUOTE]Well seeing that this is my first time being a member of an online forum I don?t know how likely receiving a nasty PM is. So in that respect I may have over estimated the possibility as I get annoying pornographic spam e-mails every single day so on some level I was probably assuming that it would be the same at a forum.

I am not familiar with how a pm system works or if the option to mass pm people is even possible so in that respect I honestly don?t know how likely it is for one to receive offensive material in a pm. So if you are saying that it doesn?t really happen I?ll take your word for it. [quote name='Retribution][size=1']I don't believe I called anyone high and mighty if you're referring to me, the only one 'offended' by being told to use IM/e-mail. Truth be told, I'm not offended, just a bit annoyed that people are trying to dance about the heart of the matter by suggesting that 'solution.'[/size][/quote]No I was not referring to you, only that it seemed people were getting upset over a difference in opinion. As for dancing around the heart of the matter, on some level that was exactly how I was raised. Any form of profanity was considered unacceptable and having lived in an area for over forty years where it simply isn?t discussed, well it does leave you in the position of not being sure how to even address it.

I still would prefer that it be an option, but if the filter is removed all together, then I assume that if you do get a nasty pm you just notify one of the staff members and you will see that the issue is addressed correct? If so then if the only way to do it is to remove the filter for pm?s, I?m fine with that too.

[James]

[font=franklin gothic medium]No need to worry; I would rather leave the censor on than disable it completely (mostly because I don't think we can seperate the PM censor from the main forum censor at this stage). But if we can give people an option, that's what we'll do.[/font]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Well this issue seems to have been hashed out fairly well, personally I don't see the harm in disabling the swear filter for the PM system, as Retri said, and I believe this is the first time we've ever agreed on anything, the chances of getting an offensively written PM are marginal at best. I've been on OB nearly five years, and though I don't keep PMs, I don't recall ever getting a swear filled one deliberately intended to offend me.

If at all possible, I'd prefer to be able to choose whether or not swear words are filtered, after all this is a very well run site, and I can't imagine a swear filled post purely created for the purpose of flaming would last very long. At the end of the day however this is up the James, or Justin I suppose as he's the one who has to implement it.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=Sienna][QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]So I ignored the part about "If it's an option, then I'd be for giving that option," but in the grander scheme of your post, the rest really didn't corrolate. In any event, I wasn't trying to single only you out, your post just happened to be the one I saw first, so I replied to it. I was saying that in general, everyone telling me to use a different medium of communication if I don't like it is just overlooking the problem. That's what I meant by the 'love it or leave it'. Sorry if I sounded accusing or something.

As for everyone bringing up the possibility of some evil person sending you an offensive PM, I'd like to ask you how often does that happen? I believe I got one, and that's because I deleted someone's post. For the great majority of OBers who are [b]not[/b] moderators, when would someone give you a profanity-riddled message?

I just think everyone's blowing the mere possibility of recieving [i]one[/i] angry PM from someone, and deciding to just censor PMs based on that extraordinarily low possibility. I have a total of 1,155 PMs. If 1,153 of those are clean, then that means that 99.8% of them are unoffensive PMs. Is that 0.2% really enough to censor all PMs? It's ridiculous to do so for fear of that one fateful PM.

I can understand being offended by profanity. What I cannot understand is why everyone thinks someone's going to mail them anthrax or something.


I don't believe I called anyone high and mighty if you're referring to me, the only one 'offended' by being told to use IM/e-mail. Truth be told, I'm not offended, just a bit annoyed that people are trying to dance about the heart of the matter by suggesting that 'solution.'[/size][/QUOTE]I?m sorry, as I was not trying to come across, as I didn?t think the matter wasn?t important. I don?t know about others, but I?ve had plenty of experience with being flamed by other members at other forums. And honestly, the entire time I?ve been here I haven?t received a single negative pm. myOtaku is another matter as I usually get several a month since for some reason other members think that if I don?t give them copies of my pictures from adult video games that I?m a [insert censored swearing] type of person. It?s not a big deal since 99% of the time when they get no response they never bother me again.

I?m sure that for 99% of the members it?s not an issue, but I?m sure that the few who have experienced it, well it is unpleasant. It?s not the same as say a normal conversation since the swearing isn?t meant to verbally attack or insult them personally. [/COLOR]