Quite Possibly The Most Useless Piece Of Legislation, 2006

[musical_kitten]

This is all I have to say about Banning myspace from schools:

It may or may not be a good idea - it all depends on your point of view. I don't use myspace, and never thought of it, but I have read in the paper about all the people who have done things (arson and things like that) and told people about it over myspace, posting pictures and everything. Then the police find them through myspace and arrest them.

So my point is, why ban the kids at all? You're finding your criminals through it.

But that's just my opinion. I'm sure you all don't really care.

[Claire]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon]The world doesn't revolve around you. The public buses don't stop only for you. The library is not five minutes away from everyone. Your personal situation is an absolutely useless example. I don't mean to be rude, but the way you present yourself as an example, it sounds like you only are annoyed by this legislation simply because it makes it inconvenient for you, failing to look at the greater good/bigger picture of the matter, because your 5 minutes will turn into... umm... more minutes.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial]Actually, I don't have a "net cafe" where I live, either, and every city I've ever been to hasn't had one (as far as I know). Now, I'm not worried about the new law because it will keep ME from using myspace or anything. I have three internet-capable computers at my house that I can use for almost as long as I want. My main problem with this is the friend I mentioned in an earlier post. She goes to a completely different high school than I do, and she has no internet at her house. She used to go to the library to check her myspace, which was one of the best sources of communication we could use. Without it, I'm not going to be able to talk to her as often. It's bad enough that I'm forced to go to a school where none of my friends go, but now I can't talk to one of my best friends. She doesn't have a cell phone, either, so I don't have that option. I can't call her all the time.

My library is only about a 10 minute bike ride away. Retribution's not the only one with a convenient way to access the internet. I know of about ten other libraries in my city, too; they're generally there to convenience EVERYONE, not one or two people.

[SIZE=1]Why is it that in serious discussion threads, there's always a heated argument? =([/SIZE][/FONT]

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Well, I'll make this reply short since our responses are growing more and more lengthy.

My example of my house and neighborhood was just there to provide an example where your blanket statement didn't work. You said that if you don't live near a Net cafe, you were somehow poor or some such thing, and that's where you should be "hanging out."[/size][/QUOTE] [COLOR=maroon]The problem with your personal example is that it has no purpose aside from showing how convenient it is for you. Again, not everyone is close to the library, so using your logic that "it's troublesome" for you is poor. I might not be very clear, so let me analogize! =D

Let's say there's an ice cream parlor, one very close to you and another all the way on the other side of the city you live. Now, this one flavor YOU ADORE. It's like oral orgasm to you. However, you are the only one in your area that buys it. So the closer store discontinues it, while the one on the other side of the city still has it. You complain and say it's ridiculous and stupid because it is inconvenient for you, failing to look at the big picture about why and what they are doing things for.

See why your example doesn't help or hurt your argument? Your example only shows that it's just more inconvenient for you rather than impossible.

As for distance, again, I honestly don't ever recall saying "close" and implying five minutes or anything of the sort when I said a net cafe should be in your area (by area, I mean your city/town/smallest piece of governed area). "Although it's not detrimental to my standard of living whatsoever, it's simply inconvenient for me if you make this change" is not really a case you can present to any government: they'll laugh you out of the building.

One more thing: don't kill yourself trying to find a net cafe per say. Again, you are reading things too literally and missing the point. Net cafe is merely an example of an alternative. I KNOW there are ways to access the internet for you. Hell, give me your location and I'll let you know. [QUOTE][size=1]I am well aware that some people do access the internet to use library-exclusive databases. Please understand that [i]there are separate terminals for people who want to access these databases.[/i] People using computers for recreationally are not allowed on said terminals, and so there's no compromise in efficiency here. You seem to think there is. There are also computers for recreational use. If they're all occupied, but you really do need to use one for research, [i]librarians will boot people off so you can use them.[/i] Correct me if I misunderstood you, but that's the meat of your argument there.

There's no advantage to passing this bill aside from Congress saying "Because we can!" I would like it if my government's time was used more for issues of national and global concern as opposed to this negligible issue.[/size][/QUOTE]So now you admit to contradicting yourself, because I remember reading "In addition, people who use the library's internet probably do not have it at home," but now there are suddenly other people who use it as well. Secondly, not every library is like yours, and to know that where you live, the library has enough funding to have both recreational and research computers says something about where you live (i.e., probably has a good deal of money to waste! Little fishy that there's absolutely no other way to go online with that much money...).

The meat of my argument is: if the public library has internet access, why don't any other places in your area? They did all that work and used all that money to bring the lines to your city, only for the library?

Anyway, not all libraries are rich enough to do the same (have a section of computers for recreation and another for research - some, like in my old hometown, only have two COMPUTERS, not sections, haha). This is looking at a small, seemingly selfish picture, rather than a bigger picture of ALL PUBLIC LIBRARIES (and schools) IN THE STATES.

And last, I ask everyone (not just you) to stop saying "they have better things to do." It's like saying the government should put all their effort in world hunger instead of -say- AIDS, because that's bigger and more important (just an EXAMPLE! DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY!). It's a matter of opinion that the social trends of youths is important enough or not enough for the government - true - but don't go trivializing social trends. It sounds like everyone is saying that social trends aren't important enough to be bothered with - like it's the biz-tech major of subjects! (ooo, burn... j/k!) [QUOTE][size=1]I don't think I cast the first stone.[/size][/QUOTE]I'm willing to pretend that you didn't misinterpret what I said and got angry over it, but here's another: "Two wrongs don't make a right." If I said something that offended you, you could have pointed it out in a calmer, more rational way, instead of being rude. So far, I've noticed throughout our exchange that you take things FAR TOO literally instead of getting the point. It's like if I said, "hold your horses," you would complain about the lack of horses in your area (or abundance).[/COLOR]

Marsh, I hope I addressed your response as well: there are certainly other ways to access the internet, even for your friend. In the states, unless you are seriously impoverished, the internet is there if you need it (and even for quite a few impoverished people it's available). (and although unrelated, myspace isn't the only way to stay in touch - google Meebo!)

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon]Let's say there's an ice cream parlor, one very close to you and another all the way on the other side of the city you live. Now, this one flavor YOU ADORE. It's like oral orgasm to you. However, you are the only one in your area that buys it. So the closer store discontinues it, while the one on the other side of the city still has it. You complain and say it's ridiculous and stupid because it is inconvenient for you, failing to look at the big picture about why and what they are doing things for.

See why your example doesn't help or hurt your argument? Your example only shows that it's just more inconvenient for you rather than impossible.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1]You said it "speaks volumes" about where you live if the library is the only place you can go for internet access. It's not like one store discontinuing a flavor speaks volumes about my socioeconomic status that, apparently, internet access does.

You say I fail to seewhy and what they are doing it for. What [b]are[/b] they doing it for? I sure don't know. It's needlessly inconveniencing many people who cannot access these sites at home, and for what payoff? What is the benefit of banning MySpace from libraries? You said efficiency, I believe, and I think I responded to it. Yes, not all libraries are like mine, but I assume that the librarians have a shred of common sense. Common sense enough to kick off a MySpacer if someone needs to do research if there are only two computers.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]As for distance, again, I honestly don't ever recall saying "close" and implying five minutes or anything of the sort when I said a net cafe should be in your area (by area, I mean your city/town/smallest piece of governed area). "Although it's not detrimental to my standard of living whatsoever, it's simply inconvenient for me if you make this change" is not really a case you can present to any government: they'll laugh you out of the building.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
It is a needless cut is what I'm saying. Why cut off the internet access for a group of people when there is no benefit in doing so? I'll laugh my government out of office when they start cutting public services with no valid reasoning behind it. I guess I'd better start now.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]One more thing: don't kill yourself trying to find a net cafe per say. Again, you are reading things too literally and missing the point. Net cafe is merely an example of an alternative. I KNOW there are ways to access the internet for you. Hell, give me your location and I'll let you now.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Don't other avenues of internet access cost money? Are not the public library's facilities free? And if what you're saying is true, aren't those who lack internet underpriviledged? If you answered yes to all of these questions, how are other means a viable option for these people?

I guess you'll answer with something like "It's not my problem," but I thought the government existed to serve people. I thought that if there was no down side to letting folks access whatever site they want to access, then let them.

And while I'm thinking about it, why'd they pick MySpace? Couldn't the ban apply to any other site? Why not ban OtakuBoards? What about MySpace specifically is bad enough to single out in a ban? This ridiculous display of power just gives me more reason to resent this administration.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]So now you admit to contradicting yourself, because I remember reading "In addition, people who use the library's internet probably do not have it at home," but now there are suddenly other people who use it as well. Secondly, not every library is like yours, and to know that where you live, the library has enough funding to have both recreational and research computers says something about where you live (i.e., probably has a good deal of money to waste! Little fishy that there's absolutely no other way to go online with that much money...).[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
How am I contradicting myself when I said "[B]probably[/B] do not"? I guess you're tired of my battle of semantics, but I don't really get it. Yes, where I live, most people using the internet at the library do not have it at home. Why else would they come to the library, go to MySpace, and leave? Beats me. I sure as hell wouldn't go all the way to the library just to use MySpace and check my e-mail before leaving if I could do all that at home.

I suppose your argument only works for the following condition:
1) There is no separation of research and recreational computers.
2) Librarians are unwilling to boot recreational users for researchers.
3) Those using the computer recreationally are probably on MySpace, and so this bill would be effective in freeing up terminals.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]The meat of my argument is: if the public library has internet access, why don't any other places in your area? They did all that work and used all that money to bring the lines to your city, only for the library?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Really? That's your argument? I thought it was that you lost efficiency because of recreational users. I'm sure there's a Starbucks somewhere that has wireless internet access, but the fact of the matter is its unfeasible and ridiculous to expect Starbucks to put up with people there to use the internet and nothing else. If there's no strain on the library, and it's logistically easier for all those people to go to the library, where's the advantage?

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]And last, I ask everyone (not just you) to stop saying "they have better things to do." It's like saying the government should put all their effort in world hunger instead of -say- AIDS, because that's bigger and more important (just an EXAMPLE! DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY!). It's a matter of opinion that the social trends of youths is important enough or not enough for the government - true - but don't go trivializing social trends. It sounds like everyone is saying that social trends aren't important enough to be bothered with - like it's the biz-tech major of subjects! (ooo, burn... j/k!)[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm not going to take it literally, but I will point out that the analogy doesn't work. In your analogy, both matters hold undeniable importance, whereas in reality, comparing this to our national debt or crisis abroad is just ridiculous. Social trends of youths are not really the concern of the government unless it becomes something like drug usage or gang violence. If it's something like using MySpace v. myO, Congress damn well better be voting on something more important. No, I don't believe social trends to be important enough to warrant a ban encompassing library computers. People should be able to choose whether they go to OtakuBoards or Myspace when they're at the library.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]I'm willing to pretend that you didn't misinterpret what I said and got angry over it, but here's another: "Two wrongs don't make a right." If I said something that offended you, you could have pointed it out in a calmer, more rational way, instead of being rude. So far, I've noticed throughout our exchange that you take things FAR TOO literally instead of getting the point. It's like if I said, "hold your horses," you would complain about the lack of horses in your area (or abundance).[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I guess you could've told me to respect your opinion in a less-rude way than telling me to grow up, but I'll let bygones be bygones.

I only take your posts literally because I didn't know you were using figures of speech. Either that, or I was trying to refute an analogy you were using. I don't know.[/size]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1]You said it "speaks volumes" about where you live if the library is the only place you can go for internet access. It's not like one store discontinuing a flavor speaks volumes about my socioeconomic status that, apparently, internet access does.[/size][/QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]*groans* For the last time: when I said it speaks volumes, I elaborated [B]twice[/B] before. Please don't keep going back to how [B]YOU[/B] misinterpreted me. It's a failing argument at best. I'm not apologizing for your own misinterpretation of what I said: [QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]I honestly did not consider that group of people when I said that - [B]only people who were [U]avoiding[/U] going on at home[/B'] - because last time I checked back in like 1999 (give or take a year), 67% of households had a computer.[/COLOR][/quote] The minute the thought of "second class" or even the phrase "speaks volumes" goes into your head, read this quote. Read it as many times as necessary for you to not bring up your own misinterpretation. It speaks volumes when you avoid going online at home when you can because you are doing something you shouldn't be. [QUOTE][size=1]You say I fail to seewhy and what they are doing it for. What [b]are[/b] they doing it for? I sure don't know. It's needlessly inconveniencing many people who cannot access these sites at home, and for what payoff? What is the benefit of banning MySpace from libraries? You said efficiency, I believe, and I think I responded to it. Yes, not all libraries are like mine, but I assume that the librarians have a shred of common sense. Common sense enough to kick off a MySpacer if someone needs to do research if there are only two computers.

It is a needless cut is what I'm saying. Why cut off the internet access for a group of people when there is no benefit in doing so? I'll laugh my government out of office when they start cutting public services with no valid reasoning behind it. I guess I'd better start now.[/size][/QUOTE]If you are referring to the ice cream example, they are doing it because they are losing money. It may be good for you, but [i]overall[/i] it's bad. If you meant the topic at hand, read on.

Did you complain when the government and private companies started designating lanes only for vehicles with 2 or more persons in them simply because you drove alone and so this made your commute more of a burden? Although it hurt you, it benefitted a greater good: it reduced traffic, and [i]overall[/i] commuter time. Sure, it made things worse for you, but... bigger picture/greater good is at stake. You can't look at this at such a microscopic level and complain about it.

It's just like cell phones, even, where people were driving and talking at the same time. Then that got banned, and everyone whined about it being a stupid law, even though there were a bunch of cell phone-related accidents. Likewise, although maybe not death or injury, the issue is the same: there's no need for myspace or facebook in a place like the library or school. Most companies forbid using the internet for personal use in the office already. Do you dislike that idea too, simply because it keeps the office resources for office purposes? Likewise, I'm only hearing "it makes the library/school only allow library/school-related functions."

Simply put, they are doing it because these sites are starting to become a burden, just like how cell phones started to become a burden to driving when at first they weren't.[QUOTE][size=1]Don't other avenues of internet access cost money? Are not the public library's facilities free? And if what you're saying is true, aren't those who lack internet underpriviledged? If you answered yes to all of these questions, how are other means a viable option for these people?

I guess you'll answer with something like "It's not my problem," but I thought the government existed to serve people. I thought that if there was no down side to letting folks access whatever site they want to access, then let them.[/size][/QUOTE] haha, "not my problem" Funny. Anyway, like your constant "speaks volume" regression, I've addressed this before: if you [i]need[/i] the internet, there's always a way to get to it. First off, If you actually want it for leisure, there are free ways of getting it, not just the public library. There are a ton of net cafes that let you use their internet absolutely free, or restaurants/hangouts that only ask that you buy/eat/drink something (ala Panera - [i]only an example! Don't hunt down a Panera, fail, and then complain about not having one in your area![/i]).

I mean, really, it's just social websites. C'mon, just like the slightly longer commute, and the cellphone thing, either learn to deal with it or take some effort to go around - just like carpooling and hands-free phones.

I don't know what to tell you. No matter what I say, you just complain about how much harder it is for you and you alone. I've traveled through most of Ontario this summer, and not once have I stepped into a library or school, yet I've been able to check my mail and access the internet [B]for free[/B] with no problem. From Toronto through Aurora, I've gone online. So you can understand why I might be just [i]a little[/i] skeptical with what you say about how impossible it is for you to go online for free.

Maybe I just know where to look (or just ask someone where to go), but then you should learn to do the same. Also, I've been through most of NYC, and the same thing: free internet. I've never once paid for any net connect aside from my home connection, so I think you just aren't trying/looking. [analogy != insult]You are like that one guy who has no friends and can't go on those designated lanes, or the guy who refuses to buy a handsfree phone but believes its their God-given right to use the phone whenever they want.[/analogy != insult][QUOTE][size=1]And while I'm thinking about it, why'd they pick MySpace? Couldn't the ban apply to any other site? Why not ban OtakuBoards? What about MySpace specifically is bad enough to single out in a ban? This ridiculous display of power just gives me more reason to resent this administration.

How am I contradicting myself when I said "[B]probably[/B] do not"? I guess you're tired of my battle of semantics, but I don't really get it. Yes, where I live, most people using the internet at the library do not have it at home. Why else would they come to the library, go to MySpace, and leave? Beats me. I sure as hell wouldn't go all the way to the library just to use MySpace and check my e-mail before leaving if I could do all that at home.

I suppose your argument only works for the following condition:
1) There is no separation of research and recreational computers.
2) Librarians are unwilling to boot recreational users for researchers.
3) Those using the computer recreationally are probably on MySpace, and so this bill would be effective in freeing up terminals.[/size][/QUOTE] [b]"I sure as hell wouldn't go all the way to the library just to use MySpace and check my e-mail before leaving if I could do all that at home."[/b] Exactly! And THAT'S why it speaks volumes if you do so. Some people actually do that, because they are myspacing with girls, trying to get laid, and so forth. They obviously can't write "hey babe, let's meet up" when their parents are reading. And that, was exactly why I said "speaks volume" in the first place.

The library computers are there as informational resourse, not a porn transfer system or a socializing tool. If they lose that functionality, it's no one's loss - maybe loss of some people's undeserved convenience, but the library has not lost any of its original intention. Neither have schools, or office spaces. If anything, they have increased their functionality. [QUOTE][size=1]Really? That's your argument? I thought it was that you lost efficiency because of recreational users. I'm sure there's a Starbucks somewhere that has wireless internet access, but the fact of the matter is its unfeasible and ridiculous to expect Starbucks to put up with people there to use the internet and nothing else. If there's no strain on the library, and it's logistically easier for all those people to go to the library, where's the advantage?[/size][/QUOTE] Well, yeah, like I said, you seem to misinterpret things quite easily, so it's understandable that you would miss my argument. And... you've obviously never been to a Starbucks, have you? O_o Dude, we finished [B]projects[/B] there. And only one of us bought a coffee. [QUOTE][size=1]I'm not going to take it literally, but I will point out that the analogy doesn't work. In your analogy, both matters hold undeniable importance, whereas in reality, comparing this to our national debt or crisis abroad is just ridiculous. Social trends of youths are not really the concern of the government unless it becomes something like drug usage or gang violence. If it's something like using MySpace v. myO, Congress damn well better be voting on something more important. No, I don't believe social trends to be important enough to warrant a ban encompassing library computers. People should be able to choose whether they go to OtakuBoards or Myspace when they're at the library.[/size][/QUOTE] Really? It's honestly a matter of opinion. You may think me crazy, but I'm entitled to my opinion, and it's this: there should be no research on finding a cure for AIDS. People who get AIDS in such a well-informed time deserve it. Prevention, given a century or two, will remove AIDS (I know it won't happen like this because people are stupid and hopeful for a cure, but it's my opinion). Why give people hope and make them infect others? Yes, I realize there are some people born with it, but think about it: how did they get it? Because mommy or daddy got it illegitimately.

Don't argue about the above because we'd be deviating from the topic. I'm just showing you that it is indeed a matter of opinion. You think AIDS is a criss abroad that merits attention. I beg to differ, and probably am annoyed by people wasting time on the disease as much as you are about this myspace dilemma.

The government does have the resources to handle small and big things. If they didn't, we'd only have a "structured coating" with chaos on the inside.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[size=1][quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon']Most companies forbid using the internet for personal use in the office already. Do you dislike that idea too, simply because it keeps the office resources for office purposes? Likewise, I'm only hearing "it makes the library/school only allow library/school-related functions."[/COLOR][/quote]
I'm not arguing about schools or offices. In school, you are there to learn, but I think that the decision should ultimately be the Headmaster/Principle's. In an office, it's that specific company's discretion what you're allowed to do there. Likewise, I think this recreational usage problem could be solved on a local level. Where there are resources to allow recreational use (my local library, for example), it would be dealt with however they decide fit. If there aren't sufficient resources, no recreational use.

Basically, Dubya and his boys deciding to place this ban is just an unnecessary display of power. Not all libraries' functionality is compromised because of recreational users, so why make a ban that applies to all libraries? Furthermore, why ban just MySpace? Why not just further maximize your functionality by banning all recreational sites? His going halfway is just baffling.

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon']Simply put, they are doing it because these sites are starting to become a burden.[/COLOR][/quote]
As in bandwidth? Or... what? If there's a reference I could have, I'd be grateful, and I'm not being sarcastic.

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon']I mean, really, it's just social websites.[/COLOR][/quote]
Does this relate back to the "burden" thing? If so, how do social websites differ from other websites in terms of their ability to use a library's facilities for non-research?

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon][analogy != insult]You are like that one guy who has no friends and can't go on those designated lanes, or the guy who refuses to buy a handsfree phone but believes its their God-given right to use the phone whenever they want.[/analogy != insult][/COLOR][/QUOTE][QUOTE=AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon']I'm willing to pretend that you didn't misinterpret what I said and got angry over it, but here's another: "Two wrongs don't make a right."[/COLOR][/quote]

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon']Don't argue about the above because we'd be deviating from the topic. I'm just showing you that it is indeed a matter of opinion. You think AIDS is a criss abroad that merits attention. I beg to differ, and probably am annoyed by people wasting time on the disease as much as you are about this myspace dilemma.[/COLOR][/quote]
I'm lost for words.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]You don't get his point. His point is, if people have to use the internet at a library because they have no other options, why are they on MySpace or downloading porn to begin with? They should be looking for a job, or researching for school because they can't anywhere else, or something, not hooking up with random girls through MySpace. Further more, if people are coming to the library to abuse a high profile connection just because they can't access one at home, or because of parental restrictions, they aren't using the [i]priviledge[/i] of [b]government provided[/b] internet responsibly at all. It's like me wanting to download a 70 meg porno, but waiting till I was at the library because I'm on dialup. It's not fair for people who do need to use library internet, and it's not fair on the government for paying to further my depravity.

Basically, libraries and schools are public institutions, and the government has every right to put bans on certain sites and services that make running those services more costly than they should be. It's not a removal of liberty at all, it's the government examining a situation and seeing that the situation isn't ideal at all. Even if this is an absurd use of top-level governmental power, it's still completely understandable and supportable, when you look at it logically. Why should [i]they[/i] pay for [i]you[/i] to surf MySpace?[/font][/size][/color]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=DeadSeraphim][color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]You don't get his point. His point is, if people have to use the internet at a library because they have no other options, why are they on MySpace or downloading porn to begin with? They should be looking for a job, or researching for school because they can't anywhere else, or something, not hooking up with random girls through MySpace. Further more, if people are coming to the library to abuse a high profile connection just because they can't access one at home, or because of parental restrictions, they aren't using the [i]priviledge[/i] of [b]government provided[/b] internet responsibly at all. It's like me wanting to download a 70 meg porno, but waiting till I was at the library because I'm on dialup. It's not fair for people who do need to use library internet, and it's not fair on the government for paying to further my depravity.

Basically, libraries and schools are public institutions, and the government has every right to put bans on certain sites and services that make running those services more costly than they should be. It's not a removal of liberty at all, it's the government examining a situation and seeing that the situation isn't ideal at all. Even if this is an absurd use of top-level governmental power, it's still completely understandable and supportable, when you look at it logically. Why should [i]they[/i] pay for [i]you[/i] to surf MySpace?[/font][/size][/color][/QUOTE]
[size=1]The fact that you're on MySpace at the library and that you don't have an internet connection at home does not necessarily mean that you need to be either studying or looking for a job. True, if you're an adult without internet at your house and you're at the library accessing recreational sites, you do need to get a job.

Please explain to me how the government is paying for those accessing MySpace versus those who aren't. Would it not cost the same amount if the terminal sat there unused with the internet connection still being enabled? And could not the problem of terminals being used for MySpace be solved at the local as opposed to the Presidential level?

If you can explain to me how people accessing MySpace as opposed to not using the computer at all has a higher cost, I will conceed the point.

[quote name='Last.fm Forums']The constitutionality of this bill is also quite muddy, as educational message boards and commercial sites are included. So even if it were to pass, it may not have much life should it go to the Supreme Court. But with the current state of politics in the US, one shouldn't expect this.[/quote]
I can't verify this with an official source, and any would be appreciated. However... if that's the case, wtf?

[b]Edit:[/b] [url=http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-6099414.html?part=rss&tag=6099414&subj=news][link][/url]

So the entire point is to keep children safe? Urg...[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Retribution][size=1']The fact that you're on MySpace at the library and that you don't have an internet connection at home does not necessarily mean that you need to be either studying or looking for a job. True, if you're an adult without internet at your house and you're at the library accessing recreational sites, you do need to get a job.[/size][/quote]
Right. So why should the government pay for them to access MySpace? Why should they tolerate it at all?

[quote=Retribution][size=1]Please explain to me how the government is paying for those accessing MySpace versus those who aren't. Would it not cost the same amount if the terminal sat there unused with the internet connection still being enabled? And could not the problem of terminals being used for MySpace be solved at the local as opposed to the Presidential level?

If you can explain to me how people accessing MySpace as opposed to not using the computer at all has a higher cost, I will conceed the point.[/size][/quote]
Hey man, it's your crazy government. I don't make the rules. But I do know, in Australia, [i]bandwidth costs money[/i], and MySpace and pals suck up a lot more bandwidth than research or job search materials. Libraries and schools already charge an internet connectivity levvy here, AND additionally pay thousands a month cause levvies just don't cover it, since students and losers with nothing better to do piss it up the wall at MySpace and YouTube. Now, I don't know how it works in America, but I can't see it being much different. 10 000 people a day (at least) accessing MySpace across the country through a library can equal tens of thousands of dollars, and libraries and schools don't have an unlimited budget to deal with that ****.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[JT Darkfire]

[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=maroon]*groans* For the last time: when I said it speaks volumes, I elaborated [B]twice[/B] before. Please don't keep going back to how [B]YOU[/B] misinterpreted me. It's a failing argument at best. I'm not apologizing for your own misinterpretation of what I said: The minute the thought of "second class" or even the phrase "speaks volumes" goes into your head, read this quote. Read it as many times as necessary for you to not bring up your own misinterpretation. It speaks volumes when you avoid going online at home when you can because you are doing something you shouldn't be. If you are referring to the ice cream example, they are doing it because they are losing money. It may be good for you, but [i]overall[/i'] it's bad. If you meant the topic at hand, read on.[/COLOR][/quote]

Your statement in that quote is COMPLETELY irrelevant. I'll straight out say it. I agree, if it's something you'd feel ashamed to view while at home, don't look at it. But that has NOTHING to do with this. And if you don't want to be misinterpreted, try not to use terminology that can be so easily misconstrued. Even using the term "second class" creates an air of superiority and, to be honest, your use of "speaks volumes" was degrading and was SUCH a stereotype.

But before I get considered off-topic, here we go. The ice cream argument and a nationwide ban on viewing specific websites at libraries is like comparing apples and nuclear explosives. Visiting Myspace at a library...it is not always an attempt to view porn or plan your next weekend orgy. Thinking like that is just plain ignorant. I'm not defending this on my behalf. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of myspace myself. I'm just even less of a fan of politicians wasting money on a policy that is completely pointless. There's no real reason to do this. Tell me one solid reason[B] without analogies[/B] why.


[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]It's just like cell phones, even, where people were driving and talking at the same time. Then that got banned, and everyone whined about it being a stupid law, even though there were a bunch of cell phone-related accidents. Likewise, although maybe not death or injury, the issue is the same: there's no need for myspace or facebook in a place like the library or school.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, I'd give you this point...EXCEPT that vehicular safety and recreational activities are COMPLETELY unrelated topics. That's like comparing apples and...nuclear explosives. Talking on the cell phone while driving is dangerous; chatting on myspace is unnecessary.


[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]Simply put, they are doing it because these sites are starting to become a burden[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

And who says that myspace at the library is a problem, really? Oh, it's SUCH a hassle to have increased traffic in the library, which in turn increases government funding in that venue, thereby providing those research computers you love so dearly and adding a decent supply of books to the otherwise dwindling ammount that you see today.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]I don't know what to tell you. No matter what I say, you just complain about how much harder it is for you and you alone.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Umm...I'm PRETTY sure that this affects more than just Retribution.

[Quote][COLOR=maroon]I've traveled through most of Ontario this summer, and not once have I stepped into a library or school, yet I've been able to check my mail and access the internet [B]for free[/B] with no problem. From Toronto through Aurora, I've gone online. So you can understand why I might be just [i]a little[/i] skeptical with what you say about how impossible it is for you to go online for free.Maybe I just know where to look (or just ask someone where to go), but then you should learn to do the same. Also, I've been through most of NYC, and the same thing: free internet.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Is it just me, or did the names of the cities that you named sound pretty familiar? Oh, that's right. It's probably because they're BIG CITIES. Of course they are going to be a little more convenient when it comes to internet availability. Assuming otherwise would be just stupid. But what about people who don't have the convenience of living in (or in your case, visiting) a big city? That library could be the only place for miles that offers free internet availability.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]Exactly! And THAT'S why it speaks volumes if you do so. Some people actually do that, because they are myspacing with girls, trying to get laid, and so forth. They obviously can't write "hey babe, let's meet up" when their parents are reading. And that, was exactly why I said "speaks volume" in the first place.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

While dating is one feature of myspace, it isn't the sole function. You'd do well to learn that, or the rest of your arguments will continue to sound as lacking in a foundation as that one did, discrediting whatever credible points you have.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]The library computers are there as informational resourse, not a porn transfer system or a socializing tool. If they lose that functionality, it's no one's loss - maybe loss of some people's undeserved convenience, but the library has not lost any of its original intention Neither have schools, or office spaces. If anything, they have increased their functionality. Well, yeah, like I said, you seem to misinterpret things quite easily, so it's understandable that you would miss my argument. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Undeserved convenience? Who are you to judge if someone deseves convenience or not? Also, if someone is caught transfering porn (and dude, it's not that hard to catch an upload) they have their membership revoked. Most libraries that house a fully functional internet connection require a library card. If you have a problem with porn on a library's PC, rest assured that they do take care of it.

[QUOTE] [COLOR=maroon]And... you've obviously never been to a Starbucks, have you? O_o Dude, we finished [B]projects[/B] there. And only one of us bought a coffee. Really? It's honestly a matter of opinion. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Only one of you bought a coffee? Are you trying to imply that a non-profit organization like a library is more annoyed by visitors than a Starbucks is by no-profit customers? Running that internet connection obviously costs more than that ONE coffee.

[QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]You may think me crazy, but I'm entitled to my opinion, and it's this: there should be no research on finding a cure for AIDS. People who get AIDS in such a well-informed time deserve it. Prevention, given a century or two, will remove AIDS (I know it won't happen like this because people are stupid and hopeful for a cure, but it's my opinion). Why give people hope and make them infect others? Yes, I realize there are some people born with it, but think about it: how did they get it? Because mommy or daddy got it illegitimately.

Don't argue about the above because we'd be deviating from the topic.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

You topic-deviating hypocrite.

[QUOTE] [COLOR=maroon]I'm just showing you that it is indeed a matter of opinion. You think AIDS is a criss abroad that merits attention. I beg to differ, and probably am annoyed by people wasting time on the disease as much as you are about this myspace dilemma.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Are you HONESTLY saying that more funding should go into the banning of a stupid website at a public library than the curing of a deadly disease? If so, you REALLY need some help.

[QUOTE] [COLOR=maroon]The government does have the resources to handle small and big things. If they didn't, we'd only have a "structured coating" with chaos on the inside.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Well now, isn't that overdramatic. I don't think posting a bulletin on Myspace is going to create total anarchy. Think before you talk next time.

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE=DeadSeraphim][color=Indigo][size=1][font=Arial][color=Indigo][size=1][font=Arial]
Hey man, it's your crazy government. I don't make the rules. But I do know, in Australia, [i]bandwidth costs money[/i], and MySpace and pals suck up a lot more bandwidth than research or job search materials. Libraries and schools already charge an internet connectivity levvy here, AND additionally pay thousands a month cause levvies just don't cover it, since students and losers with nothing better to do piss it up the wall at MySpace and YouTube. Now, I don't know how it works in America, but I can't see it being much different. 10 000 people a day (at least) accessing MySpace across the country through a library can equal tens of thousands of dollars, and libraries and schools don't have an unlimited budget to deal with that ****.[/font][/size][/color][/font][/size][/color][/QUOTE]
[color=crimson] Here in New Zealand, or Christchurch at least, our public libraries have two tiers to their internet access.

one is completely free and lets you use the net for research on a list of pre=approved websites, exception seems to be Cheat Code Central however that got on there, anyhow, this free internet doesn't let you access much outside the realm of reasearch. MySpace, YouTube and Otakuboards respectively are blocked off.

The second tier costs you a couple of dollars for half an hour or so, sometimes you can book and hour if it isn't busy. This tier allows unrestricted access to the internet, because you pay for the bandwith costs. So if you want to use myspace or other such non-educational sites on the Library computers, it costs you.

Now that's how libraries shoudl run their net. Take note, Dubya. (who is that? :p )[/color]

[Papa Smurf]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Ice cream parlor examples? AIDS analogies? Points that amount to little more than someone getting their panties in a twist because they're morality police dweebs? "Get a job"?

How is any of that relevant? lol. Sure, maybe in the sick, twisted, perverse, irrational, and utterly demented state of mind of the people suggesting those counterarguments...they make sense...but realistically, everything there is missing the point entirely:

And the point is that this legislation, while having noble goals where those goals are mildly discernible, is ultimately clumsy and misguided.

Talking about bandwidth is totally irrelevant here, because from what I can tell, the legislation doesn't give two shats about bandwidth conservation, just how it doesn't give two shats about job searches, just how it doesn't give two shats about some fuzzy economic-based example regarding ice cream parlors in a city.

All this legislation "cares" about is "protecting" children from questionable and elicit activities, and the means and methods with which it is attempting to achieve that goal are trite and asinine, just like the shatstorm we saw over government-sanctioned 'net porn bans.

Just like the shatstorm we see whenever the government decides that certain reading materials should be deemed inappropriate for youngsters, even when there's nothing wrong with those materials when they're taught correctly.

It's just like a bunch of wacko Atheists suing public schools to take "One nation under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Just like when a bunch of wacko Christian fundamentalists tried to bring hellfire and brimstone down on a teacher in California for something completely innocuous or misinterpreted.

It doesn't take brilliance to see the stupid and absurd pattern going on here.

It's the same knee-jerk reaction that we saw when Dogma or Last Temptation of Christ was released. It's the same knee-jerk reaction when South Park ridiculed Tom Cruise's downright and mind-numbingly stupid "belief" system.

The (despicable) trend today is summed up rather succinctly:

"Something is questionable? BAN IT."

And no matter how anyone may try to argue for that rationale...they can't, because it's a stupid rationale to begin with.

Don't get me wrong. Protecting kids is important. But for the love of all that is holy and unholy...protect kids intelligently. A library blocking websites themselves? Fine.

The government making a law to make it a national requirement, just because a few boneheaded teenagers were stupid enough to fall for some craptacular internet lure?

Pardon the language, but are you ****ing kidding me? Get with the ****ing program, people. Pull your head out of your rectums and take one long, strong, healthy whiff of reality. Clean the **** out of your ears and eyes, and start thinking with your head. You know what that is. It's that lump that should be three feet above your ***.

[Billy Shears]

[quote name='Papa Smurf']I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Ice cream parlor examples? AIDS analogies? Points that amount to little more than someone getting their panties in a twist because they're morality police dweebs? "Get a job"?[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Yep, the gang is all here.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[QUOTE]How is any of that relevant? lol. Sure, maybe in the sick, twisted, perverse, irrational, and utterly demented state of mind of the people suggesting those counterarguments...they make sense...but realistically, everything there is missing the point entirely:

And the point is that this legislation, while having noble goals where those goals are mildly discernible, is ultimately clumsy and misguided.

Talking about bandwidth is totally irrelevant here, because from what I can tell, the legislation doesn't give two shats about bandwidth conservation, just how it doesn't give two shats about job searches, just how it doesn't give two shats about some fuzzy economic-based example regarding ice cream parlors in a city

All this legislation "cares" about is "protecting" children from questionable and elicit activities, and the means and methods with which it is attempting to achieve that goal are trite and asinine, just like the shatstorm we saw over government-sanctioned 'net porn bans.

Just like the shatstorm we see whenever the government decides that certain reading materials should be deemed inappropriate for youngsters, even when there's nothing wrong with those materials when they're taught correctly.

It's just like a bunch of wacko Atheists suing public schools to take "One nation under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Just like when a bunch of wacko Christian fundamentalists tried to bring hellfire and brimstone down on a teacher in California for something completely innocuous or misinterpreted.

It doesn't take brilliance to see the stupid and absurd pattern going on here.

It's the same knee-jerk reaction that we saw when Dogma or Last Temptation of Christ was released. It's the same knee-jerk reaction when South Park ridiculed Tom Cruise's downright and mind-numbingly stupid "belief" system.

The (despicable) trend today is summed up rather succinctly:

"Something is questionable? BAN IT."

And no matter how anyone may try to argue for that rationale...they can't, because it's a stupid rationale to begin with.

Don't get me wrong. Protecting kids is important. But for the love of all that is holy and unholy...protect kids intelligently. A library blocking websites themselves? Fine.

The government making a law to make it a national requirement, just because a few boneheaded teenagers were stupid enough to fall for some craptacular internet lure?

Pardon the language, but are you ****ing kidding me? Get with the ****ing program, people. Pull your head out of your rectums and take one long, strong, healthy whiff of reality. Clean the **** out of your ears and eyes, and start thinking with your head. You know what that is. It's that lump that should be three feet above your ***.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Did you just say something that can hurt anothers feelings? Did you just speak without regards to everybody else's moral codes and attitudes? Did you just mention facts tinged with the pungent odor of "reality" that may rip away the fragile little fantasy land where everyone's opinions matter? And you call yourself an American?! Why I'd never!

This far into the thread, I vote Papa Smurfs' post the sanest.

Boo-hoo, they're banning MySpace in libraries and school.

Wah, you don't like the term "second-class" when dealing with people without internet.

Cry yourself to sleep because you're ice-cream analogy sucked, and so did the rebuttle to it.

Honestly, it's [I]MySpace[/I]. You guys argue like Congress is allowing the apocalypse to happen.

It's not an excersise of power. There is no conspiracy, so take off your tinfoil helmet.

It has nothing to do with AIDS, ice cream or Net cafes, so stop using lame examples.

The government is wasting their time, so let them. I'm sure George W. Bush isn't an OtakuBoards member reading this thread and all your asenine posts, so stop fighting about it.

All in favor of closing this useless thread to prevent further conflict, say 'Aye'.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][I]Quite Possibly The Most Useless Piece Of Legislation, 2006?[/I] I don?t know about that, I?d have to see all the other things they are attempting to do. Our government seems to be pretty good and tackling useless issues instead of the more important ones. However I can on some level see why they would want to do it. But if they aren?t paying for it then they need to leave it to the local government. I know that in a town south of where I live the city wanted high speed Internet for all the businesses and town, including the library.

What happened? The federal government didn?t want to pay for it (not that I think they should mind you) so they charged several million in taxes to the citizens without giving them a chance to refuse it. So now the businesses and the library have the access courtesy of the citizens paying for it. So at this point banning myspace or other places even though I don?t use the library really ticks me off since it?s the taxpayers money that paid for the connection to be installed in the first place.

So if for some reason I do go to the library and I want to browse a place like myspace, otakuboards or any other social place since it?s my tax money that partially funded it, why shouldn?t I be able to do it if I want? Occasionally I check in here at the boards when I?m at school when my homework is done. I attend college and I pay a fee in order to have access to the computer lab so it?s not like I?m getting it for free. Unless this bill doesn?t affect colleges, in which case ignore what I just said.

Still the whole idea is kind of ridiculous as I think it should be handled at a local level. I know plenty of teachers who allow students who work hard and finish their assignments to browse online as a reward for their dedication. And for the rest of the time, I always understood that when setting up a network you can choose to limit your access keeping the students away from sites if you wanted to. So pushing for a ban is just doesn?t make any sense to me. [/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Billy Shears][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Wah, you don't like the term "second-class" when dealing with people without internet.

Cry yourself to sleep because you're ice-cream analogy sucked, and so did the rebuttle to it.

Honestly, it's [I]MySpace[/I]. You guys argue like Congress is allowing the apocalypse to happen.

It's not an excersise of power. There is no conspiracy, so take off your tinfoil helmet.

It has nothing to do with AIDS, ice cream or Net cafes, so stop using lame examples.

The government is wasting their time, so let them. I'm sure George W. Bush isn't an OtakuBoards member reading this thread and all your asenine posts, so stop fighting about it.

All in favor of closing this useless thread to prevent further conflict, say 'Aye'.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1]So I guess you didn't really have any worthwhile opinion to contribute then?

How about instead of just ridiculing what everyone else said, you try making a few of your own points? I guess that'd be about as pointless as knocking what everyone else said in the first place, though.

The entire point of these topics is for an exchange of ideas on the given issue. After all of this arguing, I now know why people are in favor of this bill, as opposed to a week ago when I was in the dark about that. If you don't care for it, kindly hit the "back" button.[/size]

[Billy Shears]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]So I guess you didn't really have any worthwhile opinion to contribute then?

How about instead of just ridiculing what everyone else said, you try making a few of your own points? I guess that'd be about as pointless as knocking what everyone else said in the first place, though.

The entire point of these topics is for an exchange of ideas on the given issue. After all of this arguing, I now know why people are in favor of this bill, as opposed to a week ago when I was in the dark about that. If you don't care for it, kindly hit the "back" button.[/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]So I guess you didn't read the rest of the thread. I already contributed my opinion. And you can read it, so [I]you[/I] kindly hit the "back" button.

This is a useless thread. I want it closed so you don't start any more fights. It's for your own good.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Papa Smurf]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']So I guess you didn't really have any worthwhile opinion to contribute then?[/size][/quote]
Not to sound glib, but as if you did have something worthwhile to contribute? I'm sorry, Retribution, but I read your posts (in fact, I read the entire thread, sadly enough) and you had absolutely nothing worthwhile to say, because you either failed to say it well, or you just missed the entire issue completely. Dude, you have the absolute least room here to criticize anyone else's posts, given how inane your previous replies have been and how downright absurd your most recent post is. lol

[quote][size=1]After all of this arguing, I now know why people are in favor of this bill, as opposed to a week ago when I was in the dark about that.[/size][/QUOTE]
Oh no, you just got bothered by something on the internet to the point where you understand why people support a bill banning a website? Dude, are you serious? I'm sorry, but you really, [i]really[/i] need to get with the program. Do you know why?

Because your hypersensitivity here is the precise reason why downright stupid legislation like this is proposed in the first place. You see something superficially negative and then have a completely superficial reaction to it. Your reaction now is neither well-founded nor logical.

In fact, it's the same type of knee-jerk reaction we see crapping from misguided, uninformed, mindless politicians who propose bills and laws for little more than political clout rather than because they've actually taken the time to understand an issue and have by their own mental acuity, concluded the bill or law will benefit people.

Don't believe me? Myspace has been featured in how many news stories now, and for how long? And how recently has the government started harping on it?

I'm sorry, but that's too timely to be a straight-up coincidence.

I support protecting children, absolutely. But I do not and will never support protecting stupidity....and both the tweenies Myspace "victims" and this law are utterly stupid.

Oh, wait, now I offended you yet again, right, so you're going to reply and say how it's the people like me that give the government a reason to ban websites? Yes, that's entirely appropriate, because someone like me, who doesn't feel the need to pretty something up when something needs to be said is the same type of person who preys on tweens on one of the hundreds of thousands of matchmaking/networking/profile sites out there. :rolleyes:

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I?ve decided to re-open this thread. First of all because upon re-reading it I realized that [B]Papa Smurf?s[/B] comments were directed more towards the government instead of other members, so I?d like to apologize for misreading their intent. And secondly because [B]Billy Shears[/B] apologized and explained that they didn?t intend to be so harsh, and I probably read a little more into that as well, especially since the debate had been pretty heated already. So please accept my apology for being harsher than was necessary when dealing with the heated debates going on in this thread.

However, I do want to remind people that flaming, even if it is directed at the government instead of members is still discouraged. OtakuBoards uses a censor in its software to protect against most inappropriate language. However, it is not acceptable to use special characters in order to bypass the censor. Swearing and offensive words, in any format, are considered spam at this site. So lets please keep it civil as I would hate to have to turn around and re-close this thread due to more flaming. [/COLOR]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='JT Darkfire]Your statement in that quote is COMPLETELY irrelevant. I'll straight out say it. I agree, if it's something you'd feel ashamed to view while at home, don't look at it. But that has NOTHING to do with this. And if you don't want to be misinterpreted, try not to use terminology that can be so easily misconstrued. Even using the term "second class" creates an air of superiority and, to be honest, your use of "speaks volumes" was degrading and was SUCH a stereotype.[/QUOTE][COLOR=maroon]How is "speaks volumes" a stereotype? O_o [QUOTE]But before I get considered off-topic, here we go. The ice cream argument and a nationwide ban on viewing specific websites at libraries is like comparing apples and nuclear explosives. Visiting Myspace at a library...it is not always an attempt to view porn or plan your next weekend orgy. Thinking like that is just plain ignorant. I'm not defending this on my behalf. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of myspace myself. I'm just even less of a fan of politicians wasting money on a policy that is completely pointless. There's no real reason to do this. Tell me one solid reason[B] without analogies[/B] why. [/QUOTE]I did not use analogies in my first post. Pay attention to the thread if you are going to argue in it, please. [QUOTE]Oh yeah, I'd give you this point...EXCEPT that vehicular safety and recreational activities are COMPLETELY unrelated topics. That's like comparing apples and...nuclear explosives. Talking on the cell phone while driving is dangerous; chatting on myspace is unnecessary.[/QUOTE] So every other analogy is useless because it uses things that have a little bit of difference in them. [QUOTE]and who says that myspace at the library is a problem, really? Oh, it's SUCH a hassle to have increased traffic in the library, which in turn increases government funding in that venue, thereby providing those research computers you love so dearly and adding a decent supply of books to the otherwise dwindling ammount that you see today.[/QUOTE] Government funding, to my knowledge, is a meeting-agreed-upon decision. Just because something accrues more "traffic" doesn't necessarily mean the funding will increase. [QUOTE]Umm...I'm PRETTY sure that this affects more than just Retribution.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point. It's that it's inconvenient, not that it's just affecting him. [QUOTE']Is it just me, or did the names of the cities that you named sound pretty familiar? Oh, that's right. It's probably because they're BIG CITIES. Of course they are going to be a little more convenient when it comes to internet availability. Assuming otherwise would be just stupid. But what about people who don't have the convenience of living in (or in your case, visiting) a big city? That library could be the only place for miles that offers free internet availability.[/quote] What is this? English 101? Toronto [B]THROUGH[/B] Aurora (and I can bet you not many people have heard of Aurora). You're not amazing for having heard of them, because that was the intent: using places people know of so they have a scope of how far I went and still had access. Duh.

However, if you can name every city, east and west, between Toronto and Aurora, then I'll believe you. Oh wait, they AREN'T big cities... -_- [QUOTE]While dating is one feature of myspace, it isn't the sole function. You'd do well to learn that, or the rest of your arguments will continue to sound as lacking in a foundation as that one did, discrediting whatever credible points you have.[/QUOTE] Bragging about all the other functions of myspace instead of the one that is the issue and why this legislation exists is so perfect. That means we can ignore why the government is doing this and just look at other things instead of the problem at hand.

Doesn't mean I'm ignorant of them, just means I see little reason to brag about the features that aren't a problem, a problem the government wants to handle. [QUOTE]Undeserved convenience? Who are you to judge if someone deseves convenience or not? Also, if someone is caught transfering porn (and dude, it's not that hard to catch an upload) they have their membership revoked. Most libraries that house a fully functional internet connection require a library card. If you have a problem with porn on a library's PC, rest assured that they do take care of it.[/QUOTE] Who are you to judge if someone doesn't deserve convenience or not. You are basically saying people should have this convenience, and I'm saying they shouldn't. I see little point is arguing who I am, aside from pointing out how unknown you yourself are, becasue you are in the same position as me. Stating your opinion and thinking other people's opinion don't matter is stupid.

Also, I've been to a few of the BIG CITY's libraries (NYC), and none of them had such a thing in place. You don't need a card to use the computers or access the net. [QUOTE]Only one of you bought a coffee? Are you trying to imply that a non-profit organization like a library is more annoyed by visitors than a Starbucks is by no-profit customers? Running that internet connection obviously costs more than that ONE coffee.[/QUOTE] I don't see what this has to do with anything. I was pointing out alternatives for Retribution and now you are complaining about the cost of coffee. I don't see what the cost of coffee versus a library's internet cost have anything to do with the topic at hand. [QUOTE]You topic-deviating hypocrite.[/QUOTE]You only wish. [QUOTE]Are you HONESTLY saying that more funding should go into the banning of a stupid website at a public library than the curing of a deadly disease? If so, you REALLY need some help.[/QUOTE]You missed the point completely, but you were too busy trying to find good insults (failed completely, but that's ok) to understand what I was saying. [QUOTE]Well now, isn't that overdramatic. I don't think posting a bulletin on Myspace is going to create total anarchy. Think before you talk next time.[/QUOTE] You'd be best to follow your own advice, eh?[/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

Im telling you guys, Myspace is evil!

It has turned Ob against itself! Quck ban it!

lol

I honestly don't see the problem here, a school can toss in a firewall here and there so i don't see why the government is getting involved.

I mean its not like our country is going down the tubes or anything, i mean our president is so awesome that he calls eco groups domestic terrorists. But who am i to talk? If it were up to this countries government i would be denied any personal choice.

The goverment just wants to look good.

Heres a suggestion, you wanna look good?

Get rid of that stuttering idiot!

[Aaryanna_Mom]

Personally I think the idea of banning sites with personal profiles, personal journals and direct communication between users is rather ridiculous. First of all it?s something that should be handled on a local level and not by the government. The problem I see with banning the sites is the places affected by the ban would then become complacent and feel that since the sites were blocked there would be no need for them to bother with taking the time to properly set up their network themselves. It?s a foolish and lazy attitude to depend on others to keep students away from such sites.

Now a number of you have mentioned that it is also a parents job. I do want to point out that for many of us our kids know far more about computers than we do and often it?s child play for them to get around any protection I have tried to put in place. So in the end I?ve had to do my best to educate them on the dangers and then trust them to be safe. Even as a parent there?s only so much you can do and you hope that your kids are smart enough to listen instead of finding out the hard way just how dangerous giving strangers your information can be.

Please don?t turn around and tell me how simple or easy it is. I?ve looked into it and for me it?s very confusing, my own daughter set up most of the protections so that simple searches don?t bring up porn. I try but it?s not that easy as until in the past five years I never had or needed a computer. The only reason I even got one was so my daughter could have access to it for school and that included being able to research things online.

Anyway back on the main topic, the only reason where I could see a ban being appropriate is if it is costing the schools or libraries a lot of extra money to allow the additional access. At that point if they find that less than say five percent of the users are going to places like myspace then it just seems stupid for them to pay for a few people to have access. And again that?s something that?s really more local as I suppose it would depend upon how they were charged for Internet usage. I?ve heard of two tier Internet, but don?t really understand it as my Internet is the same regardless of how much it gets used.