China Orders Mass Slaughter of Dogs

[Morpheus]

All I know is: I am not going to lose any sleep over this.

[Charles]

[quote name='Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]It's in the past, and, if I recall properly, I didn't like History class. I just don't share your feelings on such subjects, I don't share your 'sense of humanity' as much as I used to. People are hippocrites - they may say they care, but tell me, deep within you, you still feel anger, don't you? When someone harms another you 'care' for, you do feel anger towards that individual, right? So, as long as you bear those feelings for such people, you really can't say much to others regarding the subject of 'caring'. That is my logic, and it, too, is not open for criticism. Love thine enemy, right?[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

I understand that you have your own angst-ridden agenda, and you are entitled to it however wrong it may be. But, this pointless philosophy you are spewing has little merit. With all due respect to your opinion, it seems as if you have little to back up your stance, save for unintentionally funny drama.

Boba Fett was pointing out how flawed your logic is--and he is correct. How can you simply say that we have no right to criticize China's sadistic and unethical way of dealing with rabies outbreaks? You can play with semantics all you want, but we, as human beings, generally do not act instinctively based on some vague concept of what is "right." On the contrary, we act upon what is reasonable. We are not living in the stone age anymore, where it's simply okay to solve our problems by clobbering someone with a stick. When Chinese officials slaughtered dogs despite the fact that rabies can be warded off with injections, they were not acting reasonably.

I am sure that the pet owners who were walking their dogs, only to have them beaten to death right in front of them did not find their government to be very considerate either. The Chinese government should be taken to task for this and we have a right to crticize them; I don't see why you believe they are so infallible and above public criticism. The day you are in a situation where you are not free to criticize government is the day when you really have something to be upset about.

And yes, I am sure the dog owners were angry and hurt. As a compassionate human being, I can feel for them. I am sure that the massacre was painful for them to endure. And of course people feel angry when they lose a loved one, be it a pet or a family member. What is your point? Aren't people allowed to feel a variety of emotions when facing a difficult situation? This isn't some crappy George Lucas flick where people turn to the dark side because they are angry at a loss, baby boy. I just do not see where you were going there.

By the by,in cae you haven't noticed, we are sitting here complaining about this BS because this is a message board! That, in part, is what this place is for--reflection!

[quote][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]- the world is in a downward spiral, and there doesn't seem to be much that's going to change that.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Stop being so emo and go buy a puppy or something.

[quote name='Morpheus']All I know is: I am not going to lose any sleep over this.[/quote]

[CENTER][IMG]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8563/colbertyd5aj4zp0.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] I'm not agreeing, disagreeing, or stating some definite opinion here, but saying you don't feel bad for the dogs at all is sort of sick. Ok, dogs don't have souls. Does anyone really care that question here? No. But they can feel pain. Being beaten by clubs and dying slowly and painfully is something you should consider while you're sitting at home typing away at your computer.[/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][quote name='Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]Regardless of what people might feel, the fact of the matter is that the Chinese were faced with a problem and did what they saw fit, and no one has the right to pass judgement on those people - they did what they thought to be right. In the end, do we not all act upon what we believe to be right? So, again, what right do we have to point fingers and cast stones?[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]It?s already been mentioned, but just because we think it?s right doesn?t mean that an action is. Ignoring the more obvious example of the Nazi?s... people think nothing of speeding or driving drunk and yet such actions kill people every single day. So just as I have the right to say I feel that what they did was wrong, so do they in complaining over something I did that they feel is wrong.

Somewhere down the line judgment has to be passed, the idea that no one has the right to judge is also short sided as in many areas we have already decided that certain actions are considered crimes. Whether or not our judgment towards them is correct is another matter. But it shouldn?t stop people from speaking out against acts they feel are wrong. [quote name='Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]Another thing - why the hell are "we" sitting here complaining about an action that has already been executed? [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]Because as Charles put it, this is a forum and discussion is why we are here, otherwise why even bother to log in and post? [QUOTE=Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]Do you think whining about it will bring back those dogs? [/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]Don?t be silly, bringing back the dead is beyond our scientific ability, especially when the body in question has been ruthlessly damaged when it was killed. But sitting on one?s butt doing nothing will ensure that the next time around it will most likely happen again. As it said in the article:

[INDENT]People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals called such killings a "hideously cruel response," in a statement on its Web site.

After last week's slaughter, the group canceled about $300,000 orders for merchandise made in China and called for a boycott of Chinese-made products to protest what it calls widespread cruelty to animals in the country.[/INDENT]
So there?s in immediate difference right there in that China just lost business for what other?s perceive as barbaric and inhumane behavior. Who?s to say that other?s won?t boycott them as well? If you don?t complain, nothing changes. Even if for the most part it?s beyond our ability to change, by saying nothing you are passively agreeing with the behavior and I for one do not agree with it. [quote name='Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray] Oh, and one more thing, as a very basic thing in this, and in many other things, I [U]am[/U] entitled to my opinion, and not once did I pick at anyone else's.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]No but you did imply that the only reason it was even mentioned was because people see animals as other people and then proceeded to explain why that view was stupid. It wasn?t directed at one person but instead at anyone who loves their dog like it?s a member of their family.

So just as you are entitled to your opinion anyone else is entitled to disagree. Overall I really don?t have a problem with you having a different opinion, but I find your lack of sympathy a bit appalling. [/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Derald][FONT=Lucida Console][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]No, I was not making the assumed claim. As a matter of fact...I am starting to believe that people are becoming like these dogs. Look at the news - all the perversion in the world, all caused by people's inability to restrain their own primal urges.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

[color=crimson]Hahaha.[/color]

[quote name='SunfallE][COLOR=RoyalBlue']It?s beyond cruel and really puts the whole country in a bad light to the rest of the world.[/quote][/color]

[color=crimson]Pretty sure that China could be viewed poorly for more reasons than beating dogs to death.

You know, like, the stuff they do to humans might be slightly more important.[/color]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=SeaGreen']Unless you are talking about people. I honestly don?t see how we can claim we are the top species on the planet and then turn around and use such barbaric methods to dispose of dogs who may be infected with rabies.[/quote][/color]

[color=crimson]Does civility have anything to do with power?[/color]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][COLOR=Orange][FONT=Century Gothic]I trust the Chinese government made the best choice for their people even if i don't agree with it.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=crimson]*weird grin*

Yeah, the PRC has a long history of doing what is best for their people doesn't it?[/color]

[quote name='Derald][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]In whose eyes? Certainly not theirs.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

[color=crimson]After the slaughter the vice health minister came out and recommended that a better and more efficient solution to reduce rabies cases would be to simply vaccinate them instead of killing thousands of dogs.

Maybe it's just my offbeat sense of humor but you do all realize how absurdly amusing your 'discussion' has turned out to be, don't you?

Dog souls, society's imminent melodramatic destruction, how cost effective beating dogs to death is, choosing 'slaughter of thousands of dogs' as something to chastise China for over it's human rights abuses.

Delightful.[/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]After the slaughter the vice health minister came out and recommended that a better and more efficient solution to reduce rabies cases would be to simply vaccinate them instead of killing thousands of dogs.

Maybe it's just my offbeat sense of humor but you do all realize how absurdly amusing your 'discussion' has turned out to be, don't you?

Dog souls, society's imminent melodramatic destruction, how cost effective beating dogs to death is, choosing 'slaughter of thousands of dogs' as something to chastise China for over it's human rights abuses.

Delightful.[/color][/QUOTE]And we all know how good China is at actually doing something to improve rights, whether it?s for a dog or a person. Saying there is a better way and actually doing it is another thing. This isn?t the first time they?ve slaughtered dogs, which is probably part of what has people so angry about it.

Besides, as you already know the news often focuses on the point that will get the most attention and virtually glosses over the part where the health minister recommended a better solution. It still doesn?t change the fact that many people found it appalling that they even made such a choice to begin with. Or should I say made the choice yet again.

As for amusing you?well we all come here to have fun so if our discussion has entertained you, all the better. ;)

If anyone?s curious I pulled up a few more articles on the subject, just take a look.

[URL=http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/10/news/dogs.php][B][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][U]Outrage[/U][/COLOR][/B][/URL]

[URL=http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/press_releases/hsus_offers_china_alternative_mass_dog_killing.html ][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][B][U]Offer of assistance[/U][/B][/COLOR][/URL]

[URL=http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060814/OPINION02/608130311][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][B][U]Let?s do it again[/U][/B][/COLOR][/URL]

If they follow through like it says in the last article, then I?d say the statement by the minister is just that, a statement, and a rather empty one at that. Only time will tell.[/COLOR]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][quote name='DeathKnight][color=crimson]Does civility have anything to do with power?[/color][/QUOTE]One would think it should, but unfortunately it seems those who are rich or powerful often feel they can do what ever they want. After all they probably are thinking I have the power so I should be the one to make the decision. [QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue']If they follow through like it says in the last article, then I?d say the statement by the minister is just that, a statement, and a rather empty one at that. Only time will tell.[/COLOR][/quote]Yeah, I?m certainly not going to hold my breath that?s for sure. I still think it?s disgusting and I sincerely hope they take the offer of assistance. They can?t honestly say there was no other option.

I guess I?m just glad I don?t live in China. [/COLOR] :animesigh

[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]The way they kill them is truly barbaric. Throwing them, beating them with sticks? Why not make a meat-car, stop in an alley, and kick it in forward. I'm sorry, I kid. I truly feel for those dogs. Their means of execution is terrible. But how would they be killed cheaply and humanely? Firing squad isn't an option. Gas chamber? Well, at leas the dogs will be going to good use...in chinese food, where they have traditionally been.

Again, I'm sorry. I'm showing tremendous restraint by not saying some of the terrible things that come to mind.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][quote name='Farto the Magic][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen] But how would they be killed cheaply and humanely? [/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]I'm not sure about the cheap part, but lethal injection is suppose to be a more humane way of putting a dog down. Though unlike sticks and brute force, it does cost more money. Though I would imagine if they were to take in account how much they had to pay the people who rounded up the dogs to kill them it might not be as expensive as they thought it would be. Sure they get paid anyway since they are just doing their jobs, but it still leaves the question of how much time was paid for doing that particular task that could have been spent elsewhere. So they might have been better off just paying for lethal injections. Especially since other humane services have offered them financial assistance in vaccinating the dogs if they abandon the policy of beating them to death.[/COLOR]

[TheResplendent]

Injections is most certainly more humane, but not cheaper then simply beating them to death. That couldn't be more obvious. It's as i already stated in one of my last posts...whether it be through domestic or international means acquiring the injections or establishing clinics to give them in if the supply isn't the issue will cost a good mount of the government's money.

As for alternative means to killing them, as far as i'm concerned i don't see any method of murder of these dogs as "humane". My opinion and feelings wouldn't change much if the method of killing were gas chamber OR lethal injection...it's still mass killing and it's still cruel and unnecessary. But the beating them to death (especially with those pictures that were with the article) did strike a very bad nerve. Again as i've stated it makes it look like some sick game.

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue']And we all know how good China is at actually doing something to improve rights, whether it?s for a dog or a person.[/color][/quote]

[color=crimson]You catch on quickly.[/color]

[quote name='indifference][color=DeepSkyBlue']Besides, as you already know the news often focuses on the point that will get the most attention and virtually glosses over the part where the health minister recommended a better solution.[/quote][/color]

[color=crimson]Sensationalism sells.[/color]

[quote name='indifference][color=DeepSkyBlue']If they follow through like it says in the last article, then I?d say the statement by the minister is just that, a statement, and a rather empty one at that. Only time will tell.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=crimson]Some issues China deals with in a rather impressively draconian way.

I don't expect much to come from the minister's words but a picture was being painted of most of China's administration being horrid dog-killers, lol. There are disagreements within their own ranks about the issue.

I guess it's ironic, but I own a little shih tzu. I'm convinced she could kick a lot of Chinese butt before being taken down, lol.[/color]