Asiaphilia, or Count to Ten Before You Post, Please.

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][size=1]Please read the article, take a deep breath, and calm the **** down before you post, mmkay?

The quote below is from a blog called Reappropriate. It's about cultural appropriation: specifically, the appropriation of East-Asian culture by white western kids.

My question is: what do you think about it? Do you think Jenn (the original poster) is overreacting? Do you feel attacked? Do you recognise that some people really [i]are[/i] nuts for all things "exotically Japanese?" Does it kind of creep you out?

Where do you think the line should be drawn (or is drawn) between appreciation and appropriation?

[quote=Jenn of Reappropriate][size=1]What is it with young White Americans who can't seem to get enough of the culture of the East? What is the appeal of the ninja, the anime, the manga, the geisha, the karate, the tae kwon do, the teas, the ceremonies, the lion dance, the yakuza, the curry and the chopsticks?

Why can't the "otaku" get it? There's nothing cool about sticking a "-chan" or "-kun" after every name. You don't get a cookie for writing "yaoi" fanfiction or perusing the Japanese comic books at Borders instead of the American ones. Sorry, kids, DBZ just isn't that good.

And you know, it wouldn't even be so bad if the kids doing the taking and bastardizing were able to defend their actions in the court of me-about-to-kick-your-***. I'd love it if the next White boy wielding homemade tonfa and worshipping Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do fighting style were able to address accusations of Asiaphilia. I'd even be okay with the Asiaphile if they knew about Vincent Chin, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and Japanese Interment. I'd love to have a conversation with the Asiaphile about his (re)birth after watching Full Metal Jacket.

But, no. The Asiaphile doesn't understand the politics or consequences of his fetish. He knows all about the Meiji Restoration and has memorized the Art of War by heart, but actually defends Hiroshima and Nagasaki (200,000+ killed in a brutal act of terrorism, but to the Asiaphile, it was a necessary act to defend the people who [i]really[/i] matter). He knows nothing about the Asian American movement even though he organizes endless anime, sushi and karaoke nights at his college campus. He doesn't even see his interest as a fetish, he sees it as his God-given right to take and take and reappropriate my culture because he feels denied somehow that his mixed-up part-Greek, part-English, all-European-American, totally of the Caucasian Persuasion *** doesn't have a native tongue that's quite as "different" or an American culture that involves bladed weaponry. [/size][/quote]If you are interested in reading more (including [i]lots[/i] of comments on the original post), [url=http://www.reappropriate.com/2006/04/im-mad-as-hell-and-im-not-going-to.html]the full article may be found here.[/url] [/color][/size]

[2010DigitalBoy]

Sounds like someone's just being mean. honestly, if you hate otaku so much just ignore them >_>

Anyway, I don't see what the problem with this stuff is. I'm sure Japanese otaku are the same way anyway.

:animeswea On the one hand, I want to say this person is looking at otaku too extremely, but on the other hand, otaku's can be quite obsessive hehe...

Anyway, my opinion stands that 'to each their own' but really, why are we gunna let one angry jerk get us down?

[Raina]

[COLOR=Blue]
I'm Japanese, and I don't care who reappropriates my culture. Actually, I welcome it. Japanese watch American films, and the Americans watch Japanese films. So what's the big deal? It's globalisation and we otakus are the pioneers!
So what if some people don't like the films made on Japan in America! There are crappy American films made in Japan too. That Jenn has her own opinion, and we have ours!
We otakus make friends from around the world, regardless of their culture. Isn't that what it's all about?

[/COLOR]

[Derald]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=Navy]Wow...those are indeed some biting comments...

I do understand that some people are a tad bit over the edge, so to speak, but this is simply a generalized statement that attacks, what I see to be, virtually anyone who would take a simple interest in one form or another of Japanese culture.

I do enjoy the occasional anime (as you can see by my avi/banner set), and many times prefer it over an American show, but that's just because I grow tired of the reality shows and other shallow entertainment programs that America has to offer. However, just because I do so does not mean that I'm some anti-American heralding in some new age of Japanese rule. This, in many ways, bothers me.

So I'll try using chopsticks instead of traditional silverware - by God! I'm now a bastardized Japanese enthusiast! No. I'm simply someone who wanted to try something new, and found it to be interesting.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I think there's degrees to fandom. There's a difference between the kids who watch YuGiOh before school and occasionally discusses it with mates and the kids who watches every anime they can get their hands on good or bad, starts to spout random Japanese facts and assumes an attitude of superiority over those who don't share their obsession. I'd say most of the board falls into the former category, honestly, and even the second category isn't so bad as long as they keep it within their cliques. I mean, there's no harm in a kid enjoying a certain style of animation, right? People assume the same attitudes about comic books and X-Men and don't get assaulted for being Marvelphiles.

It's when kids start to make assumptions about Japanese culture from anime, and start basing their entire life around going to Japan and become a great mangaka or whatever the hell they're called that it's Asiaphilia. They appreciate the culture, sure, but they only appreciate one aspect of it - the art and animation (and only the relatively good animation at that, like Western cartoons 90% of anime doesn't leave the country of origin). A lot of the time their understanding of the Japanese language isn't nearly adequate enough, they don't truely understand Japanese culture and practices, and they have this idealised view of Japanese life that really doesn't hold. That's when an interest in Japan becomes harmful and Asiphilia, in my eyes.

I think the OP really did overreact in her post, though. I mean, even if these kids do get a bit obsessed with their cartoons, they're just cartoons, and learning about another culture isn't an especially bad thing, even if they're learning about only a small percentage. A kid loves Dragonball despite the lack of quality? Go for it, it's a kid's show. They might get into the hype of it for a while, but, for the most part, it passes, just like the trend of anime would if it wasn't so visciously marketted. I could almost guarantee that if Cartoon Network and co stopped advertising anime programs as the next big thing, and instead focussed on western animation (made in Korea, irony) public interest in anime would trickle off till it was largely an internet phenomenon again, which is pretty much where it started as well.[/font][/color][/size]

[TheResplendent]

This is like admonishing somebody for liking Italian food, or german cars...there isn't a thing wrong with being interested in things because you enjoy them. This person seems to believe that everyone in america has ulterior motives to taking a liking the eastern culture. Like we're looking to be accepted into some "cool asia club" or whatever.

For one, i am 50% asian...so that contributes much to my interest in asian culture, more so chinese culture since most of japanese culture is from desired acquisition. The rest of my interest simply comes from the facination. It [b]interests[/b] me, it [b]captivates[/b] me, but for no reason do I feel that i need to be interested in it because it makes me "cool".

I watch anime because it stretched the limits of the human imagination and it produces more interesting storyline, characters, and plotlines then most "western" (as in america, not texas or new mexico) media offers. Even more so then most "eastern" media. But i too am a very big fan of martial arts movies. It's something for my own enjoyment, it's not because I get a feeling of accomplishment from it or because i wish to convert myself to a japanese citizen.

Whoever wrote that piece is exceptionally narrow-minded. Some of his/her points are subjective while the others are irrelavent to the whole issue. Being a fan of something does not always have to involve turning it into a status establisher. I think it's great that people nowadays are even this open minded to appreciate other cultures other than their own, regardless of whether or not they have a complete comprehension of it. According to the person that wrote this, everyone is to stay within their own borders and be happy with knowing that there other cultures out there but we have no right learning about it let alone immersing ourselves in it.

Hell, i guess this means everyone that owns a playstation or a toyota hates themselves for not being japanese and it's their way of proving themselves. Not to mention someone should probably tell this person that asian's did not originate the "bladed weapon".

[TheShinje]

[color=crimson]
Jenn needs to take a better look at what's happening before deciding to react this way. Because watching anime and applying chan or kun to the end of someones name isn't going to bastardise her culture, heck, it wont even taint it. It's overreaction, plain and simple.

And as it happens, I don't think it is my God given right to (insert all that asiaphile mumbo-jumbo here) I beleive it is my God given right to watch what I want to watch, regardless fo it's origin. I'm sure anime producers feel the same way and that's why they go to great (well, maybe just good) lengths to get the stuff imported over to the US market. Do they feel bastardised by it? I doubt it. I'm sure they feel more honoured that their work is appreciated across the cultural spectrum.

Jenn wants you to know everything about asian culture before you can be allowed to appreciate it. That is pathetic.

And how exactly does Hiroshima factor into this? Appreciation for asian culture doesn't mean you have to disagree with Hiroshima. I happen to fully agree with what happened that day. America showed Japan that they needed to stop pulling this **** (Pearl Harbour) and it was soon over.

Japan today is not the Imperial Japan of yesteryear that wanted to, you know, take the pacific for all it's worth. Where would they be today without Hiroshima?

In any case, I will disregard Jenn's comments, and continue to be a casual Asian cinema and anime watcher. Got to go, I hear Rashomon calling my name.[/color]

[John]

Let me be the first to say that perhaps being obsessively [i]against[/i] something or someone isn't really as great a counter as you'd think to someone who's obsessively [i]for[/i] it.

And other cultures are just plain interesting. Japanese culture just so happens to have the necessary qualities to be the most interesting to a demographic of people that are likely to take their interests very extremely, compared to others. Think they're defiling your culture by misinterpreting it? Well, that's not really their fault. They know only whatever they can find, and most of them (most of the worst cases, at least) are generally teenagers, so they're not going to use their noggins to max capacity all the time. But the important thing is that [b]they're obsessing because they love the culture[/b]. Is that something you should really be posting a long-winded blog hissy fit about?

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] Her argument is based on truth, but she's taking it overboard. Her biggest mistake is generalizing all anime/manga fans into these "Asiaphiles", which is certainly not true. But there are a lot of people out there who irritate me. I realize that [i]most[/i] anime fans are nothing like this, and just enjoy anime and manga.

However, the specific group she's talking about really [i]is[/i] annoying.

I'm generally talking about the fanboys/girls who, after watching/reading anime/manga, think Japan is amazing and can do no wrong. Whenever I see people randomly insert Japanese phrases into their writing and add in "-chan" or "-kun" after peoples' names and random proclamations of love for all Asian girls, it's just very bleh.

Once I saw two fanatics fighting over whether or not taking off your shoes is a Japanese or Chinese custom. A bunch of Japanophiles were getting all riled up. For god's sake, shut up! That custom belongs to most if not all Asianic countries.

Appreciation means you like parts of the culture (such as its forms of entertainment), and appropriation comes when the fans unwittingly adopt everything about the country as good. [/color]

[Papa Smurf]

I can't see how anyone can realistically, honestly, and intelligently take issue with what Jenn has said in the article. In fact, the only two truly relevant replies here have been from Lunox and DeadSeraphim. Theirs are the only posts I see that address the actual issue and point of Jenn's article: that the extremists are downright stupid.

This article wasn't about a passing interest being stupid. I don't see how anyone can't conclude that from the article, especially the full version. Jenn's focus the entire time are the so-called "Asiaphiles" who know absolutely nothing about the actual culture in Japan, and whose obsession with Japan stems from brain-dead, sub-par anime, and thus, is horribly, horribly skewed...and then it pisses people off.

The "-chan" and "-kun" for example? A few of my former friends found it necessary to do that all the time. They dreamed of going to Japan, because [i]they'd convinced themselves they'd be happier there[/i]. Why? Because they think anime is the reality over there.

That's like people looking at Leave it to Beaver and thinking that's what the 1950s were like in the United States. It's stupid idealism.

No, that's not even a strong enough term.

It's [b][i]RETARDED[/i][/b] idealism.

Yeah, that's more accurate.

See, having an interest is one thing. I have an interest in British history, and eventually, spending a year or two in Great Britain is something I'm looking to do. I want to make a pilgrimage to William Wordsworth's house. I want to stand upon the bridge Oscar Wilde wrote of in Impressions du Mautin (I believe that's the title). I bust out a British accent here and there because it's fun and goofy. "Good show ole chap" may slip out here and there, as might "jolly good." Even "no worries." But do I think myself to be more British or Australian? Hell no. I'm a bloody yank and proud of it.

I may have some weird international language quirks, and my sense of humor may have been shaped in part by Monty Python, but never will you ever hear me say that British culture is so much better than American culture, simply due to some morsels of British entertainment.

The focus of Jenn's article is not an interest; it's a retarded idealistic obsession.

More power to her. She's saying something that needs to be said. I know I'm tired of hearing stupid giggly fangirls.

Incidentally...there's a reason why people around here don't invite me to join them at anime conventions. I'd go around choking as many cosplay bitches as I can. Hell, I'd even dress up like Darth Vader for the full effect. "I find your lack of rationality disturbing."

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][QUOTE=Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]My question is: what do you think about it? Do you think Jenn (the original poster) is overreacting? Do you feel attacked? Do you recognise that some people really [i]are[/i] nuts for all things "exotically Japanese?" Does it kind of creep you out?

Where do you think the line should be drawn (or is drawn) between appreciation and appropriation?[/color][/size][/QUOTE]On some level I think she has a point as I?ve run into a few of those over obsessed fans of anything Japanese, and others obsessed with other cultures as well. However, the strength of her reaction is putting her in the same light as she is being just as obsessed with being irritated over it as they are with being obsessed with the Japanese culture. And in all honesty I?m not sure why it really bothers her as it just seems pointless to get so upset over something like that when your anger over it isn?t going to change their opinion however sad and misguided it may be.

Do I feel attacked? No. She was referring to those who are obsessed with the culture, not those who find it interesting and enjoy aspects of it. There?s a big difference between liking Japanese stuff and being obsessed with it and since I?m not obsessed her rant was not directed at me.

Does it creep me out? Not really, I don?t understand such obsession or getting so upset over someone else having an obsession, but I don?t find it creepy. As for drawing a line, if the obsession is interfering with your regular life, then yes a line needs to be drawn. I?ve known a few college students who attended school, got the loans, dropped out, but kept the money to buy tons of anime stuff to fuel their obsession with Japanese culture. So if their obsession has reached that level they definitely are taking it way to far. [/COLOR]

[Charles]

Reading this article, the only thing that comes to mind is "who ******' cares?" The next worse thing after being an "Asiaphile" is being someone who write articles for the purpose of complaining about them. I say that otaku nerds are much more obvious targets for bullies than intellectual nerds, so let them play their vital role in society by distracting the bullies while our furture leaders toil away at their studies undisturbed. Meanwhile Jenn should write articles that actually matter or release her aggression on Asiaphiles physically like the rest of us.

[Retribution]

[size=1]It's interesting to note that she's ranting about how those obsessing over Asian culture are taking something that's not theirs as Europeans and "bastardizing" it, when in fact she is Asian and [I]lives in Canada[/I].

Last I checked, "Asians" in Canada are in no way, shape, or form related to the currently prevailing Western culture. I honestly have no problem with Asians living in Canada, but when she's screaming to white people to leave her culture alone, she looks like a fool. Her blanket statements and assumptions are equally ridiculous.

People like her are the reason racism still exists.[/size]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#D55555]In case anyone misses it, I'd like to point out that "Asia" is actually a continent with a number of island peripheries. I pity individuals whose idea of "Asia" is limited to Japan and China.

Perhaps the proper term for what the child was ranting about is "Japanatic" or something like that 'cause strictly speaking, one could consider a Peruvian gamelan enthusiast who obsesses over Bali an asiaphile, yeah?
[/COLOR]

[TheShinje]

[quote=Papa Smurf]
The "-chan" and "-kun" for example? A few of my former friends found it necessary to do that all the time. They dreamed of going to Japan, because they'd convinced themselves they'd be happier there. Why? Because they think anime is the reality over there.[/quote]
[color=crimson]On closer examination I can see she is targeting those obsessive types. Yeah, I can understand that.

This example makes me cringe. I was thinking of adding "-chan" and "-kun" to names more casually, in the same vein as you're british examples. Using them all the time? Probably out of context and applied in all the wrong ways? I can see how that would get downright annoying, frustrating even.

I'm more inclined to Jenn's view now, after re-reading what she was actually saying. It makes a lot more sense when you step back and tackle the same article with a fresh perspective. Hiroshima angle included.[/color]

[Fasteriskhead]

[SIZE=1]As if "culture" only means anything kept in a box, well away from any gaijin interlopers. As if anyone had any kind of specific idea what the hell "culture" was supposed to be, aside from something vaguely valuable and requiring protection and upkeep. As if anyone's ever bothered taking the time to think, [i]really[/i] think, about what "culture" means, where that term is coming from, what kinds of assumptions it makes, and what our using it so constantly says about our current understanding of the world. Are we completely sure about what we're talking about here?

I can't respond to this much, but I'll go ahead and say: criticism of "asiaphiles" misses the point. True, they grasp everything about Japan (or whatever) only in an extremely superficial way. True, they completely misunderstand almost everything. The most inane way to investigate something, ignorance par excellence, is to just [i]imitate[/i] it (trying to replicate all the right moves and gestures) and throw oneself in without ever asking the question: "Is [i]Japan[/i] really what I'm throwing myself into? If so, am I doing so with honesty and care? Or am I throwing myself into some mocked-up [i]caricature[/i] of Japan that happens to fulfill some need for me?" But pointing out how absurd this is, telling the people who do it to get a life, accusing them of "fortune cookie-ing my heritage" - none of this considers the problem in any further depth at all, it just takes it as a bunch of adult children living in their own fantasy world making a mockery of someone's "culture" without anything else to it. And neither agreeing with the article for "telling it like it is" (or whatever) nor dismissing it as hateful xenophobic whining really think about what's going on either.

Like I said, I can't really get into this at length (sorry to be kind of a tease, but I've slept about five hours in the past two days and I need to go lay down). Some basic questions to ask: 1) [i]Why[/i] do "asiaphiles" feel the need to go drown themselves in the other culture without making the effort to consider what they're doing more deeply? What draws them to it, culture itself or something else? 2) Assuming we can even understand what "culture" is in a clear way, how is it possible for the asiaphiles to "rape, pillage and reappropriate" culture? And what does "rape" mean in this sense? 3) What relation do [i]we[/i] have to culture such that it becomes our concern when it's raped, pillaged, and reappropriated? 4) Doesn't the fact that that the defenders of asian culture object to the foreign interlopers on the basis of the "reappropriation" of that culture [i]presuppose[/i] that, though the foreigners understand the culture incorrectly, by doing so they must have [i]already identified and understood the culture in a more basic sense[/i]? If the gaijin were obsessing over something [i]completely[/i] different from the culture in question, there would be no "rape" of that culture and hence no need for internet rants. If so, what separates the understanding of the defenders from the aliens? 5) What does it mean that both the defenders and the gaijin first understand "the ninja, the anime, the manga, the geisha, the karate, the tae kwon do, the teas, the ceremonies, the lion dance, the yakuza, the curry and the chopsticks" in a cultural sense (that is, as various "aspects" of Asian culture), but without really being able to identify Asian culture [I]itself[/I] as anything more than the [i]sum[/i] of all these items, activities, ideas, etc.? 6) What does it mean if such a sum, and nothing else, is understood to be what "culture" really is? And does all the superficial white fanboyism, as well as all the cries of cultural rape against this fanboyism, always contain such an understanding of culture from the start?[/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[size=1]The thing is, her rant isn't just targeting the obsessive types.

[QUOTE]I wonder if the ninja knew, when they took to rebelling against the samurai, that their true impact on history would not be guerilla warfare, political statements, money or power, but the birth of a long, icky tradition of pimple-faced White boys living a continent away wrapping themselves in black bedsheets, twirling fake-jewel-encrusted and elaborately decorated steel sai, and trying to scale the brick wall of their college dorm building.[/QUOTE]
I thinks she needs to grow a sense of humor.

[QUOTE]What is it with the New Age incorporation of Confucian-Buddhist-Yin-Yang-Feng-Shui tenets into White women practicing yoga and tai chi trying to get in touch with their inner energy?[/QUOTE]
Could someone tell me what the problem is with White women practicing yoga and tai chi trying to get in touch with their inner energy? If that's something they ascribe to, that's their business. This girl needs to accept (and embrace) cultural diffusion as a fact of life. Yes, there are Chinese Christians, and yes, there are American Taoists. It's not cultural bastardization.

I'm sure there are people in Asia who enjoy American and European culture just as much as we do some of theirs. No one's marching around calling it cultural bastardization if they are somehow 'defiling' our culture by enjoying it.

And honestly, she's an Asian living in Canada and claims we're bastardizing her culture? What?[/size]

[James]

[font=arial]The point about Hiroshima and Nagasaki seems more than a little off - which is ironic, because the poster is talking about the ignorance of a group of self-professed "asian experts". She herself is claiming to have some sort of insight, but she kind of loses authority with that statement. I mean, it doesn't exactly demonstrate a deeper understanding of history or the politicial issues at the time of the event.

Anyway, I think her overall point is somewhat true - I definitely see a lot of anime fans and self-proclaimed Japanophiles who, apart from having some knowledge of anime, have no real knowlege of Japan itself, other than some vague stereotypes centered around popular culture.

But I think it's that way with everything; almost any subject you can imagine.

I think the ironic thing is that Jenn herself comes across as being oddly obsessed in her own way...perhaps moreso than many of the people she is complaining about. Funnily enough I would pretty much put her squarely in the "obsessive asiaphile" group that she's referring to.[/font]

[Corey]

[size=1]I don't know about anyone else, but all the whole article just made me laugh my *** off.
I haven't read anything this idiotic since Mein Kampf.[/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Thanks Corey, I should have known a fellow Irishman would find this as funny as I did. Seeing as so many people across the world try to do Irish and fail miserably, do we or our descendants get mad and say that people are bastardising our culture ? No, we laugh about it among ourselves and think how silly people are to still believe in leprechauns, that Irish people still live in thatched houses and all have red hair. This Jenn needs to seriously get some perspective on the world and other cultures before she can go off and make dumbass statements like that one. As James pointed out, she's angry with self professed Asia-experts when she has little grasp of her own history... all the way from Canada.

The world is getting smaller and smaller, it?s only natural that people will find things among other cultures they find interesting, people should be flattered when another culture takes on some of their traits, and not go all bitchy and aggressive. That said, some of the more extreme ?asiaphiles? scare me with their extremism, this of course coming from a devout Star Wars freak lacks impact however. Though I would pay money to see Papa choke all the cosplayers as Darth Vader.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1'] Though I would pay money to see Papa choke all the cosplayers as Darth Vader.[/SIZE][/quote]I was thinking the same thing. ;)

Anyway, upon re-reading her article, even though she?s claiming to be upset with those who are more obsessed, it?s obvious that on some level she dislikes anyone who is fascinated with other cultures and she?s just using those who are more obsessed as a platform to launch her opinion. In all honesty right now she?s more scary than those people who are obsessed with another culture. At least they don?t come across as wanting to strangle you for not liking it as much as they do. Where she sounds like she would happily throttle you to death with out a second thought. [/COLOR]

[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]Heh. My native culture has no bladed weaponry...Hehehe...My last name means "axe-man." I personally find myself addicted to the calming sensation I get from the culture. Tea slows me down. Asian food (when prepared correctly) is unrivaled in taste and health. Oh, and the music. The Last Samurai soundtrack is the only thing that helps me wind down after a tough day.

This guy is just angry because, rather than becoming skinheads, we chose asian culture to appreciate. He seems to think that we pretend to be asian (wether or not we truly are) and don't appreciate our own culture. Inuyasha would have a few things to say to this guy...
[QUOTE]
I haven't read anything this idiotic since Mein Kampf.[/QUOTE]
I thought mein kampf was kinda boring. "Daddy, I don't want to be a mailman! I want to be a dictator!"[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][size=1][quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] Appreciation means you like parts of the culture (such as its forms of entertainment), and appropriation comes when the fans unwittingly adopt everything about the country as good. [/color][/quote]Thanks, Lunox. I agree with you here, and I think this point is a large part of the reason this article caught my attention so much in the first place.

I've been part of the theOtaku community for gosh-only-knows how long now, and there have always been aspects of it that didn't sit very well with me. Read some of the comments on theOtaku's main page and you [i]will[/i] find posts like "But I love everything Japanese!! <3 ^_^," or "Anime is SO MUCH BETTER than american cartoons!"

There's a point where someone crosses a line between [b]liking something for its own merits[/b] and liking something because of what they associate with it. Say, liking green tea because you're a fan of tea, and the green stuff happens to be your thing...verses liking green tea [i]because that's what the Japanese drink[/i].

(It almost reminds me of celebrity endorsements. [i]Michael Jordan[/i] wears Nike! [i]Naruto[/i] eats ramen! Buying in to either one of those seems a little silly. I'm off the topic I meant to talk about, though.)

Again, the difference lies between liking [i]Seven Samurai[/i] because it is a classic, award-winning, influential film [i]that happens to be Japanese[/i] or watching [i]Seven Samura[/i] because it is a Japanese film [i]that happens to be classic, award-winning, and influential.[/i]

If your primary litmus test of the worth of something is "Did it originate from Japan?" then things seem a little...twisted.

Ignorant praise is just as worthless (and annoying) as ignorant criticism. [/size][/color]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082][center][img]http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9039/annamillerslogosa7.gif[/img][/center]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Miller's][u]WTF, mates?[/u][/url] ^^[/color]

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Desbreko][color=#4B0082][center][img]http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9039/annamillerslogosa7.gif[/img][/center]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Miller's][u]WTF, mates?[/u][/url] ^^[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I think that pretty much ends the debate on Jenn's side. I love the Hooters bit from the Wiki article, funniest thing I've read in a while.[/SIZE]