Dawson School Shooting

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Earlier today, at an unconfirmed time, a man dressed in a black trench coat and sporting a Mohawk haircut entered the lunchroom of Dawson College, Montreal, and opened fire. It is unknown who this man was, or what his motivation for the shooting was, but there are at least 12 people in the hospital with gunshot wounds as of the latest update (Reports range up to as many as 20 people). The gunman has been killed by a police Sharpshooter, and unconfirmed reports say that one other has died, although nothing is known for certain.

This is another school shooting in a city that is known, interestingly enough, as one of the safest in the world. It is at this time unknown how many people are dead, but Le Hopital de Montreal is reporting that 6 people are in critical condition, 3 are in serious condition, and 4 other are stable. Other less seriously wounded people have been admitted to the Montreal Jewish and another hospital, but still, nothing can be confirmed.

I live about an hour outside of Montreal, so this event happened very close to me. It really boggles my mind that there are people who will pick up a gun and, whatever their motivation, walk into a crowded school and just start shooting at random. I loosley know a few people who go to Dawson, but as far as I know none of them were there today. I just... can't believe it.[/COLOR]

[Fyxe]

[size=1][color=slategray]My school just had an assembly today about how bullying can make kids mentally snap. A few examples were of these school shootings that were carried out by targeted students that were bullied every day.
Even though I knew those things happened, and that was unsettling enough... just having a man walk through a school's doors and open fire, that's terrible.

Schools have fire escape routes and tornado-safe rooms. But... what about protection against shootings? I think it's ridiculous that we lose so many lives to shootings, in a place where you are supposed to have comfort in being safe. I know it's a hard thing to stop, but generally, I don't see much of an effort to stop it.[/color][/size]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Bláse][size=1][color=slategray]I know it's a hard thing to stop, but generally, I don't see much of an effort to stop it.[/color'][/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]If given the authority, what actions would you take to 'stop it'?

Question can be answered by anyone interested in doing so, my curiosity was just piqued.[/color]

[Adahn]

[font=Verdana][size=2]Since anybody who attempts to hijack a plane in the next 100 years will probably be beaten to death by the passengers, why not take some of the money going to airport security and use it to increase school security? It might be a hassle for everyone, but I'll take a hassle over getting shot at anyday.[/size][/font]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]This is terrible, just terrible. I was brought to tears reading about this tragedy. What a sick, twisted individual that gunman was.

It makes me so angry that someone would actually do that, just walk into a building and open fire at innocent people. It's because of these types of people than none of us can ever truly feel safe. Can you imagine the feeling of helplessness those students had, being trapped in a building with a gunman sporting a semi-automatic? If he had a regular hundgun or pistol some of the bolder students might have been able to subdue him. But those poor students didn't stand a chance.

So far it has been confirmed that one female student died, and 18 year old girl named Anastasia De Souza.

The police have been doing an ivestigation on the gunman. His name is Kimveer Gill and he was 25 years old. He's obsessed with goth culture and had an online diary at vampirefreaks.com, where he posted some disturbing journal entries and pictures.

The following quote is from cbc.ca:

[QUOTE]In his profile on vampirefreaks.com, a website devoted to Goth culture, Gill called himself "Trench," and wrote: "You will come to know him as the Angel of Death."

"Work sucks ? School sucks ? Life sucks ? What else can I say?" he wrote. "Metal and Goth kick ***. Life is like a video game, you gotta die sometime."

A photo gallery accompanying the profile includes pictures of Gill brandishing a Beretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic rifle. In the last seven photos, he is wearing a black trench coat and holding the rifle. The caption below the last photo reads, "Ready for Action."[/QUOTE]

Here are some pictures he posted on his profile, showing off his weapons:

[IMG]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2006/09/14/gill-gun-web_cp_10739827.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2006/09/14/top-gill-knife_cp_10739848.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/14/n091407A.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/14/shooter02-300.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/13/shooter05-500.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/13/shooter04-500.jpg[/IMG]

What a cowardly disgusting person. He killed people for the joy of it. I hope he rots in hell.

One thing that bothers me is that "police dismissed the idea that terrorism played a role in the gunman's attack". What that gunman did is nothing but terrorism. He wanted to kill and terrify people, and worse still, for no reason at all.

Is terrorism only attributed to those who commit it for political, religious or ethnic reasons? It makes no sense.[/COLOR]

[Ellerby]

[COLOR=DimGray][FONT=Tahoma]Actually they weren't trapped or helpless. The doors to the Cafeteria were all open, it was just a matter of getting to them. Anyway...

I live about 5 hours away from Montreal and it really troubled me when I heard that someone would do this. Did he even attend the school?

Blase, I realize what your trying to say about the School Security, but what can you do? I know with my school we have some police officers regularly check up on us from day to day, and we have specific "safe" locations for a Code Red (someone has a weapon and is in the school) all over the school.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#038000][size=1][quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']What a cowardly disgusting person. He killed people for the joy of it. I hope he rots in hell.[/COLOR][/quote]I think it's more of curiosity than joy in this case. The boy [i]was[/i] interested in the implements and methods of the business. Add to that his fascination with death as an aspect of Goth culture and the fact that he was able to acquire weapons and you've got one nasty cocktail. They should've kept him alive, though. There's probably nothing that could make a man feel shittier than scoring his first kill.

BTW, how was he able to build up his weapon stash (if that could be called a)?[/size][/COLOR]

[Adahn]

[size=2]I don't know if keeping him alive would have been a good idea. If he's still got bullets in his gun, he's deadly. The quicker you take someone like that down, the better. Only one person died on site? We should all just be thankful that he's much better posing with a gun than shooting one. Can you imagine what it would have been like if he was [i]trained[/i] with it?[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]I think the whole thing is just sad. I don?t understand why anyone would want to go in and kill other people. I?ve had my rough days and such, but I?ve never felt the urge to take it out on others, even if they are part of why I?m having a rough day.

I feel bad for students these days as the getting shot at by someone while at school was something I never had to worry about. So it must be hard wondering if your school is going to be the next place it happens. [QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]If given the authority, what actions would you take to 'stop it'?

Question can be answered by anyone interested in doing so, my curiosity was just piqued.[/color][/QUOTE]The only thing I can think of that might help, though it?s certainly no guarantee, is to have some sort of class on the psychological impact of harassing other students and how depression and constant harassment can really hurt someone. I often wonder if other students even think about how much it can hurt someone?s feelings when they are mean to them. Or if they understand that their feelings are a result of depression which is treatable.

The only problem with this idea is that I?ve no idea if it would really address the issue at all. It might only help reduce the harassment of other students or be completely useless. But I think it?s something that should be considered, especially since there are other areas it might help as well, like for students who feel so helpless that they commit suicide. For some just learning a little about depression and that there is treatment might be the step they need to get over it. Or to at least seek some help for how they feel.

I feel like I?m grasping at straws though. But we have to start somewhere right? Any other ideas on how to stop it? [/COLOR]

[Albert Flasher]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#038000][size=1]

BTW, how was he able to build up his weapon stash (if that could be called a)?[/size][/COLOR][/QUOTE][COLOR=Sienna]

As far as I can tell, he aquired all his weapons legally. He had no past history of violence or misdemenor, and Canada's gun laws are very lax. We almost never have problems like this, so the Baretta CX4 Storm (For example) is only considered 'Restricted.' That means that if you have no criminal record you can aquire one perfectly legally. The CX4 is basically a semi-automatic pistol with a stock; it's got little stopping power and uses tiny little buttles, luckily. That's why there were 20 injured but only one dead; we're very, very lucky that he didn't go underground and aquire something more powerful, or it could have been a lot worse.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]One thing that bothers me is that "police dismissed the idea that terrorism played a role in the gunman's attack". What that gunman did is nothing but terrorism. He wanted to kill and terrify people, and worse still, for no reason at all.[/QUOTE][COLOR=Sienna]

It's because 'terrorism' has come to mean, basically, 'Muslim' in the Mediaverse. It's stupid and ignorant of facts, but it's true - unless it's somehow connected to the Mid East or the Muslim religion it's not considered terrorism. Kinda like how a hate crime is just a regular crime unless it's againts a minority.[/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I'm really sure what to make of this, except for the fact that the title immediately made me suspect another American High School shooting, though I'm even more surprised to hear it happened in Canada. Honestly I really don't know what to make of it all, another nutcase gets his hands on a semi-automatic weapon, walks into a school and nearly kills a bunch of people and we all wonder how stuff like this could happen. Maybe it's Canada's proximity to the U.S., maybe not, but seriously, semi-automatic weapons, hell any gun bar hunting rifles and shotguns should be police and army-only weapons, this whole "armed and safe" concept is a crock.

In the end I'm simply left wondering, how can we keep letting things like this happen ?[/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='Delta][COLOR=#038000][size=1]BTW, how was he able to build up his weapon stash (if that could be called a)?[/size'][/COLOR][/quote]

Ever seen Bowling For Columbine?

There are a million blames to be placed here, and a million things to say about how messed up this was... a million responses and a million sugestions. Overall, what can we do?

[Albert Flasher]

[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I'm really sure what to make of this, except for the fact that the title immediately made me suspect another American High School shooting, though I'm even more surprised to hear it happened in Canada. Honestly I really don't know what to make of it all, another nutcase gets his hands on a semi-automatic weapon, walks into a school and nearly kills a bunch of people and we all wonder how stuff like this could happen. Maybe it's Canada's proximity to the U.S., maybe not, but seriously, semi-automatic weapons, hell any gun bar hunting rifles and shotguns should be police and army-only weapons, this whole "armed and safe" concept is a crock.

In the end I'm simply left wondering, how can we keep letting things like this happen ?[/SIZE][/QUOTE][COLOR=Sienna]

Well, the thing is, like I said before, this is rarley a problem in Canada. We have the occasional nut - as we had here - but in general Canada doesn't have a problem with guns. Our gun laws are, as a result, very lax. But this can be looked at in two ways. Let's say we step up our gun restrictions and make only rifles and shotguns legal. What does that create? A black market. A black market for guns is a very, very bad thing. People who want a handgun or a semi-auto or a full-auto will get them, but we won't have any records and the weapons won't have any of the legal restrictions that they would have if legally purchased. The CX4 Storm, for example, has two versions - the small calibur kind used by Kimveer Gill, and a much larger, illegal version. If he had gone underground, which version do you think he would have gotten? We'd have 20 bodies on our hands right now instead of one.

You might say "Well, why can't they just crack down on the Black Markets?" Well, simply because we can't. Canada especially. We simply don't have the resources to police any major black market activites. We have trouble with drugs already, can you imagine guns?

It's a very difficult situation [\COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']Maybe it's Canada's proximity to the U.S.[/quote][/size]

[color=crimson]I hear public drunkenness is on the rise in the U.K. Maybe it's the U.K.'s proximity to Ireland that's to blame.

Oh, sorry. That sounded stupid. I withdraw that statement.[/color]

[quote name='Tical Blue']Overall, what can we do?[/quote]

[color=crimson]Millions of things. Millions of people can do millions of things especially when the millions of people have been given the ability to affect the politics of their government on multiple levels.

But millions of them are complacent and apathetic, asking questions like "What can be done", "How does this keep happening", "Wow this is a serious problem" etc. and then promptly returning to their everyday lives within a few seconds because it's pretty cumbersome to take action.[/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Red 6][COLOR=Sienna']Well, the thing is, like I said before, this is rarley a problem in Canada. We have the occasional nut - as we had here - but in general Canada doesn't have a problem with guns. Our gun laws are, as a result, very lax. But this can be looked at in two ways. Let's say we step up our gun restrictions and make only rifles and shotguns legal. What does that create? A black market. A black market for guns is a very, very bad thing. People who want a handgun or a semi-auto or a full-auto will get them, but we won't have any records and the weapons won't have any of the legal restrictions that they would have if legally purchased. The CX4 Storm, for example, has two versions - the small calibur kind used by Kimveer Gill, and a much larger, illegal version. If he had gone underground, which version do you think he would have gotten? We'd have 20 bodies on our hands right now instead of one.[/COLOR][/quote]

[SIZE=1]I'm not going to try and argue against anyone saying that black markets develop when there are harsh anti-gun laws, as Ireland definitely has that problem when it comes to trying to tackle drug gangs and paramilitary organisations. That said however, a black market usually cuts off 95% of the population from these weapons, as most will have no idea where to get them, or have the money to purchase them, because lets face it, black markets aren't like supermarkets. Guns are more expensive because they're harder to acquire and bring into the country.

I just feel that if such weapons as at CX4 Storm were illegal then this guy wouldn't have been readily able to get his hands on one, as seemingly the one he got was perfectly legal to buy.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]I hear public drunkenness is on the rise in the U.K. Maybe it's the U.K.'s proximity to Ireland that's to blame.

Oh, sorry. That sounded stupid. I withdraw that statement.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]I must admit that made me laugh when I read it Ken, as it's probably true. Ireland's binge drinking culture among young people has gone beyond all levels of belief, it really is saddening to hear someone say they're going to get polluted drunk to celebrate their [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Cert]Junior Cert[/url] results.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1'] Maybe it's Canada's proximity to the U.S., maybe not, but seriously, semi-automatic weapons, hell any gun bar hunting rifles and shotguns should be police and army-only weapons, this whole "armed and safe" concept is a crock.[/SIZE][/quote] [QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]I hear public drunkenness is on the rise in the U.K. Maybe it's the U.K.'s proximity to Ireland that's to blame.

Oh, sorry. That sounded stupid. I withdraw that statement.[/color][/QUOTE]And here I was all ready to bonk you for that one Gavin. Looks like DeathKnight beat me to it. ;) Though I have to agree on the limiting what people can get gun wise. I can understand hunting, but I just don?t see a need for people to have the more lethal weapons.

As for stopping this type of tragedy, I would think that what SunfallE already suggested would be a good start. Even if it didn?t help the shooting issue it would certainly help with others. It reminds me of how teen pregnancies are so prevalent here in Utah, one of the highest in the US. And yet they still won?t teach the kids how to protect themselves.

Now I know this is a terrible comparison, but depression like sex ed is often treated like an untouchable topic here in Utah as well, as if there is something wrong with you if you are depressed. And if there is any age group that is not going to understand that they are depressed, I would have to say kids and teens would be the ones. Though I've run into plenty of adults who don't understand it either. So some sort of class along those lines would probably be useful in so many ways.[/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue'] And here I was all ready to bonk you for that one Gavin. Looks like DeathKnight beat me to it. ;) Though I have to agree on the limiting what people can get gun wise. I can understand hunting, but I just don?t see a need for people to have the more lethal weapons.[/COLOR][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Chalk it up to just another one of our humoured exchanges on the nature of gun-control ;). I have great respect for Americans, just not a lot of faith in the idea that arming one's self to the nines will provide the protection most people are looking for. Better to leave it to the trained professionals, the police to do their jobs.[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']Chalk it up to just another one of our humoured exchanges on the nature of gun-control ;). I have great respect for Americans, just not a lot of faith in the idea that arming one's self to the nines will provide the protection most people are looking for. Better to leave it to the trained professionals, the police to do their jobs.[/SIZE][/quote]I agree. It just makes no sense paying money for an expensive gun that other than warfare really has no use. But then I'm not into guns at all so I've never understood the attraction to them. It's not like most people have to worry about being attacked by a bear or some other large animal, even when you are hunting. And though I do believe people have the right to bear arms and all I have to wonder if making it harder to get the more powerful guns would help to cut down on such shootings. Though I suppose then they would just use the black market. If they knew where to go to get one that way that is. [/COLOR]

[Albert Flasher]

[quote name='indifference][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue']I agree. It just makes no sense paying money for an expensive gun that other than warfare really has no use. But then I'm not into guns at all so I've never understood the attraction to them. It's not like most people have to worry about being attacked by a bear or some other large animal, even when you are hunting. And though I do believe people have the right to bear arms and all I have to wonder if making it harder to get the more powerful guns would help to cut down on such shootings. Though I suppose then they would just use the black market. If they knew where to go to get one that way that is. [/COLOR][/quote]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Well, the thing is, what he was using was not heavy weaponry. The legal version of the Storm in Canada is chambered to hold 9mm bullets, and only has semi-auto capabilties. Which basically means that the only difference between it and a small-arm are clip size and the stock. There are versions which use larger bullets and ones that use full auto, but they are not legally available in Canada. As far as I know, auto weapons in general are banned, but I'm not too sure on that rule. The reason that we had 19 wounded and only one death is either because he was a terrible shot, or because he was using such a pea-shooter of a gun.

I still think, though, if a relativily light fire-arm wasn't available to Kimveer, then he would have aquired bigger, illegal weapons from seedier locations, and we'd have 20 dead kids on our hands right now instead of just one. It's kind of like those clinics that supply clean needles to heroin addicts; if you can't stop it from happening, you have to make the problem less severe. [/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]Like indifference I?m not into guns either so I wouldn?t have known what you just stated unless I took the time to look it up. I was assuming it was a more heavy type gun as well. Which considering what you just said makes sense. He probably would have killed a lot more people if he had one of the more powerful guns.

And I agree that there are those who if they can?t get the lighter guns then they go for the more illegal stuff which cause a lot more damage. I just wish there was a way to keep them from getting them in the first place, but that?s pretty much impossible as you don?t know if someone is going to use the gun they buy in that manner. [/COLOR]

[Burori]

[QUOTE=White][COLOR=DimGray][FONT=Tahoma]Actually they weren't trapped or helpless. The doors to the Cafeteria were all open, it was just a matter of getting to them. Anyway...

I live about 5 hours away from Montreal and it really troubled me when I heard that someone would do this. Did he even attend the school?

Blase, I realize what your trying to say about the School Security, but what can you do? I know with my school we have some police officers regularly check up on us from day to day, and we have specific "safe" locations for a Code Red (someone has a weapon and is in the school) all over the school.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Not sure if anyone has said this yet but to the best of my knowledge he was not a student at the school. I know a few friends who went to Dawson. One of them was a female and she was one of the many who were shot. Actually the first one. She's okay though only took a shot to the right forearm and the right flank above the hip. She recovered and was discharged from the hospital but to make matters worse her mom saw it happen as she was dropping her off.

My ex was in the building at the time but she was in the classroom where they blocked the doors with the desks and hid from the lunitic. My only wish is that he felt a lot of pain before dying.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Swedish Chef']My only wish is that he felt a lot of pain before dying.[/quote]My brother was quite pissed when he found out that the gunman died of a self inflicted wound (he shot himself in the head after being hit several times in the body by the police). The coward. He knew he was going to die painfully if the police peppered him with bullets, so he finished himself off quickly to avoid it. I know I sound vengeful, but I also wanted him to die a terrible and painful death for what he did.

There is no excuse or justification whatsoever for what he did, so he deserves a painful death. People can't take out their social problems on the world. So what if he was a loner and had no friends?

I was a loner and I was bullied and teased and always felt like an outcast in school, and the few friends I had weren't always nice, but you don't see me trying to kill people.[/COLOR]

[Albert Flasher]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]My brother was quite pissed when he found out that the gunman died of a self inflicted wound he shot himself in the head after being hit several times in the body by the police. The coward. He knew he was going to die painfully if the police peppered him with bullets, so he finished himself off quickly to avoid it. I know I sound vengefull, but I also wanted him to die a terrible and painful death for what he did.

There is no excuse or justification whatsoever for what he did, so he deserves a painful death. People can't take out their social problems on the wolrd. So what if he was aloner and had no friends?

I was a loner and I was bullied and teased and always felt like an outcast in school, and the few friends I had weren't always nice, but you don't see me trying to kill people.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Well, if it makes you feel any better, Kimveer shot himself vertically through his jaw. Considering the calibur of the gun he was using, there's a good chance that the bullet didn't kill him instantly and there were a few seconds of unbelievable pain before his death. [/COLOR]

[Aaryanna_Mom]

I?m sure that there are those who will disagree with this, but wishing pain and death on others and wanting revenge is wrong. You don?t do to a mad rabid dog what it did to you. You kill it with a clean quick shot and put it out of it?s misery or you risk catching the very disease you just got rid of. The type of person who does this sort of thing is sick. Which is why we have laws to deal justice to such people.

You can feel free to disagree with me, but through the years I?ve watched people lose loved ones to disease, drunk drivers and all sorts of different things and in each and everyone of them. Those who desired revenge were in the end destroyed by that desire. It tore apart marriages drove some to suicide, and just made things worse in the end.

So though I am glad he is gone as he will no longer be able to hurt anyone, I do not wish that his death was painful. I am a Christian and based on my beliefs, God will take care of the rest.

[Retribution]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']You don?t do to a mad rabid dog what it did to you. You kill it with a clean quick shot and put it out of it?s misery or you risk catching the very disease you just got rid of. The type of person who does this sort of thing is sick. Which is why we have laws to deal justice to such people.[/quote]
[size=1]I dunno, I think there's some merit to chaining it to a tree and letting it sit there if that dog hurt/killed someone you care about. But onto a more pertinent point...

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom']So though I am glad he is gone as he will no longer be able to hurt anyone, I do not wish that his death was painful. I am a Christian and based on my beliefs, God will take care of the rest.[/quote]
This concept never really made sense to me. We're not allowed to want this person to suffer however temporarily, but God's allowed to damn them to Hell, where they're doomed to burn in a lake of flame for eternity. I think it's a comparatively small and meek request to want this guy to reap what he sowed for a few minutes when their destination would be eternal suffering.

I wish he just commited suicide and removed his sorry genes from the human pool instead of taking others with him. People, if you hate the world, just kill yourself and die quietly.[/size]