Astral Projection

[cancer]

I've heard a good deal about astral projection, but most of it comes from articles and other untrustworthy sources. So I'm curious to know what people on here think of astral projection. Also, have you ever experienced this phenomenon, and how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body?

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]First let me notify that I am a hardcore skeptic about most spiritual things, but if it appears to be true, I don't see why it wouldn't be.

My father is a very spiritual man. Not really a christian at all, but he definitely has beliefs which tie into Christianity.

My dad, whom I trust as he is a very honest man, claims to be able to astral project. There have been multiple times where he will sit on the couch in silence reading a book and then close his eyes and go into a trance-like medetative state.

Once when he came out of this state after about 20 minutes I asked what he had been doing. He told me that he was astral projecting himself and I think he said something about something across the world. Then he claimed to have seen me in the future (though Im fairly certain he was making fun of me at that part.)[/COLOR]

[cancer]

Hmm, I would love to be able to astral project myself. You should ask your father how he goes about doing this, for I am very curious.

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid][quote name='cancer']I've heard a good deal about astral projection, but most of it comes from articles and other untrustworthy sources. So I'm curious to know what people on here think of astral projection. Also, have you ever experienced this phenomenon, and how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body?[/quote]To be honest, I think it?s a bunch of nonsense. And to answer the next question, no I have not experienced it. And since I think it?s not possible, I doubt I ever will experience it.

So how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body? They don?t. If it was something that was really possible I think it would be something that pretty much everyone knew how to do. Since if it were really possible I would imagine that lots of people would want to do it. I?m sure that?s part of why people believe in it. They want to think that it?s possible for their spirit to roam freely. But that?s just me. [/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkOrchid]To be honest, I think it?s a bunch of nonsense. And to answer the next question, no I have not experienced it. And since I think it?s not possible, I doubt I ever will experience it.

So how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body? They don?t. If it was something that was really possible I think it would be something that pretty much everyone knew how to do. Since if it were really possible I would imagine that lots of people would want to do it. I?m sure that?s part of why people believe in it. They want to think that it?s possible for their spirit to roam freely. But that?s just me. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Can you offer any counterproof aside from "I don't believe it"? Considering spirituality and religion are usually not grounded in scientific principle and/or logic, there is no way we can confirm or disprove the existence of astral projections.

I have a friend who claims he can astral project. I'm skeptical about it, but that doesn't mean anything.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I don't think it's possible. Like Aaryanna said, if it was real more people would be doing it - and on top of that, those who say they've done it just sound dodgy. They spend hours meditating then suddenly coming back and proclaiming they'd seen something wonderful; I'm more inclined to believe they just had a particularly lucid dream than actually forced their soul out of their body to go tripping in a winter wonderland. In any case, astral projection gets the thumbs down from me.

Oh, and Retribution?

[quote][b]Opinion[/b]: a personal belief or judgment [I]that is not founded on proof or certainty[/I];[/quote]
Keep it in mind.[/font][/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='DeadSeraphim][size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I don't think it's possible. Like Aaryanna said, if it was real more people would be doing it - and on top of that, those who say they've done it just sound dodgy. They spend hours meditating then suddenly coming back and proclaiming they'd seen something wonderful; I'm more inclined to believe they just had a particularly lucid dream than actually forced their soul out of their body to go tripping in a winter wonderland. In any case, astral projection gets the thumbs down from me.[/font][/color'][/size][/quote]
[size=1]How do you know they haven't? How is astral projection any less valid than religion? Both are based on little to no scientific evidence. Born-again Christians claiming to have seen the divine light of Jesus Christ are on the same level as self-proclaimed astral projectors. Both are claiming the unprovable.

Just because not many people are doing it means absolutely nothing. Perhaps there is certain criteria for an astral projector and it just so happens most people do not fit that criteria? Saying the divine is possible, impossible, dodgy, or incredible means nil.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]How do you know they haven't? How is astral projection any less valid than religion? Both are based on little to no scientific evidence. Born-again Christians claiming to have seen the divine light of Jesus Christ are on the same level as self-proclaimed astral projectors. Both are claiming the unprovable.

Just because not many people are doing it means absolutely nothing. Perhaps there is certain criteria for an astral projector and it just so happens most people do not fit that criteria? Saying the divine is possible, impossible, dodgy, or incredible means nil.[/size][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]How do you know they have? What you're asking me to do is give you proof when the counter argument offers no proof except for anecdotal evidence to begin with, which doesn't work. It's an opinion. I don't think it's a real thing, just like atheists don't believe Christ is real and I don't see you jumping down their throat about it. Think of it like faith - I don't give Hinduism the time of day because I have faith Christianity is right. I don't know [i]for certain[/i] that they're wrong, but I don't have to, since I have utter faith in Jesus Christ. Similarly, I don't give this the time of day for the same reasons. I don't know for certain that they aren't leaving their bodies, but hey, I'm pretty certain in myself that I don't believe it and don't think it's possible from any perspective, and all the semantics you bring up in the world isn't gonna make a difference to that belief.[/font][/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='DeadSeraphim][size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]How do you know they have? What you're asking me to do is give you proof when the counter argument offers no proof except for anecdotal evidence to begin with, which doesn't work. It's an opinion.[/font][/color'][/size][/quote]
[size=1]An opinion, like Jesus Christ is the world's savior. You can't back up the fact that Jesus is actually the savior without falling back on faith and ultimately, the lack any 'real' evidence.

[QUOTE][size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I don't think it's a real thing, just like atheists don't believe Christ is real and I don't see you jumping down their throat about it. Think of it like faith - I don't give Hinduism the time of day because I have faith Christianity is right. I don't know [i]for certain[/i] that they're wrong, but I don't have to, since I have utter faith in Jesus Christ. Similarly, I don't give this the time of day for the same reasons. I don't know for certain that they aren't leaving their bodies, but hey, I'm pretty certain in myself that I don't believe it and don't think it's possible from any perspective, and all the semantics you bring up in the world isn't gonna make a difference to that belief.[/font][/color][/size][/QUOTE]
I honestly would've had no problem with this had you not been so brusque with me.[/size]

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=F.O.Y.][COLOR=DarkOrange]First let me notify that I am a hardcore skeptic about most spiritual things, but if it appears to be true, I don't see why it wouldn't be.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I like this argument, Dark Orange. ?If it seems true it cannot be false,? or, if I address it contextually, ?If it is true, then it must be true.?

Astral projection? I don?t know. Obviously, one can?t disprove it. But I would like to see the rational argument for it. It?s really pointless for me to make much of a decision about it considering how little it has affected my reality. This is where my distinction differs from most; just because I have no experience in the subject doesn?t qualify me in carrying much of an opinion. Perhaps some of these people who are in this debate should consider this point.

I guess to play devil?s advocate, Dead Seraphim, can we be certain of anything? I think we can, but I would like you to justify your claim. Tell me what it means to prove something.

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth]I like this argument, Dark Orange. ?If it seems true it cannot be false,? or, if I address it contextually, ?If it is true, then it must be true.?

Astral projection? I don?t know. Obviously, one can?t disprove it. But I would like to see the rational argument for it. It?s really pointless for me to make much of a decision about it considering how little it has affected my reality. This is where my distinction differs from most; just because I have no experience in the subject doesn?t qualify me in carrying much of an opinion. Perhaps some of these people who are in this debate should consider this point.

I guess to play devil?s advocate, Dead Seraphim, can we be certain of anything? I think we can, but I would like you to justify your claim. Tell me what it means to prove something.[/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I consider 'proof' in the scientific sense, something that can be tested and observed. It's pretty impossible to get proof for anything involving spiritual concepts or religion, so it's up to the individual to believe what they feel is true and right for them. The end.[/font][/color][/size]

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][size=1]To recap:

[b]OP[/b]: What is your opinion on astral projection?
[b]Aaryanna[/b]: Opinion: I don't think it's real.
[b]Retribution[/b]: Yeah, well you can't [i]prove[/i] that it's not real. You have no proof to back up your opinion. (P.S. I don't think it's real, either.)
[b]Dead[/b]: Um, opinions don't need proof. That's why they're opinions.
[b]Retribution[/b]: Yeah, well how is astral projection less valid that religion? Religion doesn't have proof.
[b]Dead[/b]: That's the point. Opinions do not require proof. That's why they're opinions.
[b]Retribution[/b]: You don't have proof that it's not real! Plus, like, you have no proof that God [i]is[/i] real. Why are you being mean to me???[/size][/color]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Returning to the actual topic at hand, personally I don't believe it is possible to astral project, because as cancer and F.O.Y. said that would require the removal of the spirit from the body. From my own religious point of view, I believe that the only time one's soul leaves the body is at death, when one goes on to face judgement in the afterlife. Now working from that line of belief, that would in my mind make it impossible to get back in one's body after the soul has left, because you or your body, whichever way you look at it is dead. That's just my perspective on the subject, religious proof is a different issue, but in the end it all boils down to faith, you either believe or you don't.[/SIZE]

[Ikillion]

[color=#56995e][SIZE=1][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Woah I just realised something. For someone to believe in Astral Projections they should also believe in ghosts. Since what is a ghost but nothing more than a spirit with no body to go to? And like Gavin said, Astral Projection is pulling the soul out of a body. So in otherwords if someone was able to Astral Project themselvs. The would be able to see ghosts as well... Intresting.

As for the topic at hand. I don't believe in it, the only think I can think of that is even close to having an out of body expirence would be dreaming, and that in itself is streaching on a rather thin line. Besides, ghosts don't exist.

'Cept for the one that wonders around the house at night. She's nice though.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid][QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Can you offer any counterproof aside from "I don't believe it"? Considering spirituality and religion are usually not grounded in scientific principle and/or logic, there is no way we can confirm or disprove the existence of astral projections.

I have a friend who claims he can astral project. I'm skeptical about it, but that doesn't mean anything.[/size][/QUOTE]Yes as what I?m saying is more than just an opinion. It?s also based on what I read in this book: [B]LUCID DREAMING[/B] by Stephen LaBerge.

In the book he describes what a Lucid Dream is and to put it simply, it is a dream state in which one is conscious enough to recognize that one is in the dream state and which stays in one's memory.

So the conclusion in part of the book is that Astral projection is just another form of a Lucid Dream. And they aren?t just basing that off of a speculation, but off of actual research that was done. Here?s a bit of the section of the book.[quote=Stephen LaBerge]Are there any scientific data that might allow us to arrive at a verdict on the claim that OBE vision is valid? There is in fact a good deal of relevant evidence available and there have been a number of studies of OBE vision that meet the standards of rigorous control required by exact science.

There are two ways of broadly viewing the results of these studies. First of all, we have the summary of Karlis Osis, Director of Research at the American Society for Psychical Research (A.S.P.R.). This society, in an effort to produce evidence for survival of death, undertook an extensive investigation of OBE perception. [13] In the course of this study, approximately 100 subjects, all of whom believed they were proficient in inducing OBEs and possessed paranormal perceptual abilities during these OBEs, were tested under controlled conditions. While confined to one room at the A.S.P.R., the subjects induced OBEs and "visited" a distant target room, attempting afterwards to describe in detail what they had "seen" while there. A comparison of their reports with the actual contents of the target room revealed, in all but a few cases, absolutely no indication of any correspondence whatsoever. In other words, in the great majority of these cases, there was no evidence supporting accurate OBE perception, nor for the validity of the subjects' convictions that they had actually left their bodies. Moreover, these subjects were described by Osis as being "the creme of the claimants" of OBE. I believe the results of this study strongly supports the "OBE as misinterpreted lucid dream" interpretation offered above.[/quote]So in the end they couldn?t reliably produce anything that supported the theory that astral projection or Out of Body Experiences were real. If they were real, then one would think that the experiment would have had a high rate of success. And further in the book it explains that though a few did describe some of the things in the room, not one could reliably do it every time they thought they were out of their body. And even among those, none of them could accurately describe everything in the room, leaving them to believe that it was more of a case of guessing what was in the room, or seeing something in their Lucid Dream state that was also in the room, a coincidence and nothing more. [/COLOR]

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]An informed opinion! [i]Plot twist.[/i][/font][/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkOrchid']So how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body? They don?t.[/COLOR][/quote]
[size=1]That sounds more like a statement of fact than the presentation of an opinion. It's the only reason I posted in this thread. Sure, there is a "But that?s just me" tossed on at the end, but it's a mere afterthought. The entire point of my subsequent post was to say that you can't say that "They don't" astral project.[/size]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid][quote name='cancer] So I'm curious to know what people on here think of astral projection. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkOrchid]So how does one go about detaching their spirit from their body? They don?t. [/COLOR][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Retribution][size=1']That sounds more like a statement of fact than the presentation of an opinion. It's the only reason I posted in this thread. Sure, there is a "But that?s just me" tossed on at the end, but it's a mere afterthought. The entire point of my subsequent post was to say that you can't say that "They don't" astral project.[/size][/quote]Retribution, the original poster asked what I think of astral projection. Since I do not believe in it then it?s only natural that my opinion is going to be that a person?s spirit doesn?t detach from their body. To be frank, you are splitting hairs here when the whole point of this thread was to simply say what you thought of astral projection. Not to nitpick others because perhaps their English isn?t perfectly clear. Though I thought I was being clear in answering with [I]my opinion[/I] on the suject.

Of course I'm going to say, ?[I]but that?s just me[/I]? because my entire post was just that; me and my opinion only. I was saying that I spoke only for myself and no one else. [/COLOR]

[cancer]

[QUOTE]So in otherwords if someone was able to Astral Project themselvs. The would be able to see ghosts as well... Intresting.[/QUOTE]

Well, Ikillion, one would actually not be able to see ghosts I think, just because they can astral project. Ghosts and astral projection would exist in a parallel plane, the astral plane. That's a plane that our physical self can't see. (This is all just what I believe of course).

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][quote name='Retribution][size=1']That sounds more like a statement of fact than the presentation of an opinion. It's the only reason I posted in this thread. Sure, there is a "But that?s just me" tossed on at the end, but it's a mere afterthought. The entire point of my subsequent post was to say that you can't say that "They don't" astral project.[/size][/quote]If the statement of ?they don?t? was all by itself, then I would agree. But when it?s part of an entire post which is saying the person doesn?t believe in something, then yes they can say it. Because in that context it?s an [I]opinion[/I] and not a statement of fact.

As for the topic, I don?t believe in Astral Projection either, and for pretty much the same reason Aaryanna already stated. Having read the book she mentioned I?m inclined to agree with the author, that Astral Projection is actually a form of a Lucid Dream. I?ve had a few very vivid, lucid dreams where I realized I was asleep and if you don?t wake up immediately, things in your dream have a very real feel to it. So I can easily understand how someone would mistake such a state as being out of their body. Or as visiting a different plane of existence altogether.[/COLOR]

[DarkFactor]

Okay now everyone will think I'm crazy.... darn...

I believe astral projection is highly plausible. I believe that the human spirit is more than just a object of faith, but a metaphysical entity which is to some degree measurable, and observable though not by eye nor is it tangible, though it can be under certain circumstances. If you understand anything about Charkas and the "third eye" you know that in order to accomplish divination, astral projection, and communication with the dead you know it is important to practice awakening the 7th charka or third eye. I believe that people have a higher consciousness or a spiritual energy that can feel, think, see, hear, and record thoughts on a different plane. It is not a sixth sense, but an integral part of our being which we can send out....

Now before I creep people out let me just say that I do not maintain any of this as a central part of my religion, I am in fact Christian. My family is protestant and I just sort of followed suit, and I have no problem with that, because a person's religion should be a comfort, and identify with their culture. It a very important part of who you are.

My theories about the astral plane and higher consciousness are maintained by allot of eastern religions, pagans, neo-Wicca, eclectic-witches, new-agers, and various other religious groups. Though in fact I differ from most of these in my theory because I believe that the spirit is just one more mechanism in our body. Just in the way you can separate hearing from your other senses by closing your eyes and pinching your nose, so can you separate spiritual energy. Which is in fact actually form of energy it produces heat and what not.... Okay now that I've said all that you can feel free to or to not dissect it all and make me sound like a loon.... but its okay because I'm positive I'm nuts anyway. I know there are varying contradictions but if you want to waist your time with more of my theism and theory feel free to pm me.

And before this escalates and what not, let me just say. "I know that you are all aliment (sp?) About your spiritual beliefs, faith, religion, whatever you call it... But seriously, pass the bong, take a chill pill, poor a one, drag a *** ((by the way "F" "A" "G" in this context was not a sexual slur, but a reference to the butt of a cigarette... I know the software does that automatically, but it's a British colloquialism, idiom. Anyways not important.)), or whatever you do to chill, and stop worrying about it. Because this is a very subjective topic (as has been pointed out vehemently by certain people) these things get locked because people feel the need to convert people to their ideology. No one here wants you ideology, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular so don't take offense and throw it back me. Okay, I've asserted my self enough for one post. :animestun

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=DarkFactor]Okay now everyone will think I'm crazy.... darn...

I believe astral projection is highly plausible. I believe that the human spirit is more than just a object of faith, but a metaphysical entity which is to some degree measurable, and observable though not by eye nor is it tangible, though it can be under certain circumstances. If you understand anything about Chakras and the "third eye" you know that in order to accomplish diviniation, astral projection, and communication with the dead you know it is important to practice awakening the 7th chakra or third eye. I believe that people have a higher conciousness or a spiritual energy that can feel, think, see, hear, and record thoughts on a different plane. It is not a sixth sense, but an intergral part of our beying which we can send out....

now before I creep people out let me just say that I do not maintain any of this as a central part of my religion, I am in fact Christian. My family is protestant and I just sort of followed suit, and I have no problem with that, because a person's religion should be a comfort, and identify with their culture. It a very important part of who you are.

My theories about the astral plane and higher conciousness are maintained by alot of eastern religions, pagans, neo-wiccan, ecllectic-witches, new-agers, and various other religious groups. Though infact I differ from most of these in my theory because I beklieve that the spirit is just one more mechanism in our body. just in the way you can seperate hearing from your other senses by closing your eyes and pinching your nose, so can you seperate spiritual energy. Which is in fact actually form of energy it produces heat and what not.... Oky now that I've said all that you can feel free to or to not disect it all and make me sound like a loon.... but its okay because I'm positive I'm nuts anyway. I know there are verying contradicitons but if you want to waist your time with more of my theism and theory feel free to pm me.

And before this escalates and what not, let me just say. "I know that you are all adiment (sp?) about your spiritual beliefs, faith, religion, whatever you call it... But seriously, pass the bong, take a chill pill, poor a brusky, drag a *** ((by the way "F" "A" "G" in this context was not a sexual slur, but a referance to the butt of a ciggerete... I know the software does that automatically, but it's a brittish coloquialism, idiom.. anyways not important.)), or whatever you do to chill, and stop worrying about it. because this is a very subjective topic (as has been pointed out vehemently by certain people) These things get locked because people feel the need to convert people to their ideology. No one here wants you ideology, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular so don't take offense and throw it back me. Okay, I've asserted my self enough for one post. :animestun[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Two things about your post DarkFactor, and really the first one is more so in relation to the collective of people out there who claim to be Christian and yet belong to no particular Church from which to draw knowledge. Once you start adding outside beliefs to the mix, for instance chakras and neo-Wiccan theology then you need to stop referring to yourself as Protestant, because I'm pretty sure your local Reverend or depending on the denomination, Pastor would have issue with your beliefs. But hey your beliefs are your beliefs, I just have an intense dislike when people use the term Christian for an all-encompassing spirituality that they find convenient to latch their own beliefs onto.

Secondly, for the love of God please use some form of spell check before you make a post, as there are rules pertaining to grammar and spelling here.[/SIZE]

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Indeed, spell check is your friend.

Anyways, I'm pretty certain that astral projection is, like most things of this nature, complete bunk. There is simply no reason to believe that it IS possible, unless you happen to believe the testemony of some wacked out hippie who likes Pink Floyd for reasons other then their musicianship. There is simply no reason to believe that people can have out of body experiances. Even if there was a spirit, why would it willingly leave the body?

Defenders of such paranormal whatbits typically refer to the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" quote when faced with the above logic; well, that's true, but the complete and total lack of evidence, combined with the fact that natural laws and even logic scream their disaproval of astral projection, certainly doesn't lend credibility to the supporters of astral projection.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE][quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']Two things about your post DarkFactor, and really the first one is more so in relation to the collective of people out there who claim to be Christian and yet belong to no particular Church from which to draw knowledge. Once you start adding outside beliefs to the mix, for instance chakras and neo-Wiccan theology then you need to stop referring to yourself as Protestant, because I'm pretty sure your local Reverend or depending on the denomination, Pastor would have issue with your beliefs. But hey your beliefs are your beliefs, I just have an intense dislike when people use the term Christian for an all-encompassing spirituality that they find convenient to latch their own beliefs onto.[/quote]
[COLOR=Sienna]
Gavin, I'd just like to point out the fact that Christianity, as a religion, has been heavily influenced throughout the years by paganism and other forms of spirituallity, to the point that the modern incarnation is almost completely different from the one that existed when the religion was first concieved. Even such Christian staples as Christmas are heavily based on pagan celebrations (Ever wonder what a Yule Log is supposed to be?). It's pretty hypocritical to say someone isn't really part of their church because the want to integrate other religions into their spirituality.[/COLOR]

[DarkFactor]

Gavin said-[QUOTE]Two things about your post DarkFactor, and really the first one is more so in relation to the collective of people out there who claim to be Christian and yet belong to no particular Church from which to draw knowledge. Once you start adding outside beliefs to the mix, for instance chakras and neo-Wiccan theology then you need to stop referring to yourself as Protestant, because I'm pretty sure your local Reverend or depending on the denomination, Pastor would have issue with your beliefs. But hey your beliefs are your beliefs, I just have an intense dislike when people use the term Christian for an all-encompassing spirituality that they find convenient to latch their own beliefs onto.[/QUOTE]

I understand very thoroughly the theological differences between my central beliefs and the Assemblies of God (my denomination) I do not intend to cause people to confuse my loose spiritualism for the kind of Christianity you speak of. However, there are many great Christians and mystics throughout history who have reconciled their views internally. I do not believe in relativism. I do not believe that just because you can reconcile your beliefs with your own "ID" that they are intrinsically unquestionable. However the great Master of existence and psychology Eckhart Tolle writes much on the subject of Christianity interplaying with other forms of spiritualism. I do not wish to lead anyone astray from his or her beliefs. My intention is only to express my own.

I apologize for the offensiveness of my spelling. I corrected the errors. That should serve to make the reading of my post less arduous.
:rolleyes:

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]Two things about your post DarkFactor, and really the first one is more so in relation to the collective of people out there who claim to be Christian and yet belong to no particular Church from which to draw knowledge. Once you start adding outside beliefs to the mix, for instance chakras and neo-Wiccan theology then you need to stop referring to yourself as Protestant, because I'm pretty sure your local Reverend or depending on the denomination, Pastor would have issue with your beliefs. But hey your beliefs are your beliefs, I just have an intense dislike when people use the term Christian for an all-encompassing spirituality that they find convenient to latch their own beliefs onto.

Secondly, for the love of God please use some form of spell check before you make a post, as there are rules pertaining to grammar and spelling here.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]Man, the only prerequisite to calling yourself Christian is a sincere love of Jesus and believing that he lived, died, came back in three days and was the son of God. You don't have to belong to a specific church, or close your mind to all possibilities just to say you're a Christian, as long as you believe in Jesus [i]Christ[/i] (thus [i]Christ[/i]ianity, clever huh?) you are, by definition, a Christian.[/font][/color][/size]