The REAL problem with Harry Potter

[vegeta rocker]

I myself love the Harry Potter books, i think they are well written fiction and can't wait for the last one to come out. The reason this thread is in the Music, Movies and Tv section is because this is primarily about the media and cultural views of Harry Potter.

There is yet another mom who wants to ban Harry Potter; saying we are growing up in a Columbine taited world bascially. Witchcraft and evil things that would screw us up, and Harry Potter is too full of violence.

So i got to thinking; there has to be something that is driving such stupid arguments; it can't just be the Wicca angle. Thats impossible; no one is that incompetent, and i was right i did indeed find a common thread in Harry Potter books that would certainly disturb many adults.

Tolerance and Equality.

All the kids in Harry Potter are very diverse, diffrent races are effortlessly interwoven into the stories. Example, when Cho Chang is introduced there is no line about where she is from or anything slightly Asian. She is just introduced by her name and that is all.
She is a Quidditch Chaser and that is all we need to know.

All the children grow up together at Hogwarts and don't fight about religion and race. They are all united and face a common enemy.

Now i understand why adults fear these books, they may just open childrens eyes to just how wonderful it is to be equal.

With so many people being killed in the name of religion; why would you seek to ban a series of books that tells us how blissful equality is?

Not saying they are doing it on purpose, they probably dont even know it.


[URL=http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061004/NEWS/61004009/-1/ENTERTAIN]article[/URL]

[De-Lor]

[SIZE=1]With such a great point, I can do little but agree with you. But Id also like to point out that parents aren't afraid of that(unless they themselves were brought up to believe in White-supremacy.). What most parents that I know object too is that kids at the ages of 12 and 13 are reading about a 17 year old boy and the phases of independence associated with that age. They believe that the books are influencing kids to grow-up a bit too fast.

But what they really don't like is exactly what you stated. Violence. And the Infamy that comes with it. Parents believe that kids will read about these acts of violence and start to head down that path. In order to be as 'Cool' as Voldemort. I believe that this is really a stupid fear among Adults.

One example. Violent Games. Parents thought that GTA and various other murder and violence games have influenced teens to be criminals. On the contrair, ever since the original Playstation came out in stores, crime-rate, homicides, and even suicides have gone down.

So if anything, i think that violent media has become an alternative to violent life.

Basically in the end I agree with you entirely.[/SIZE]

[Papa Smurf]

No, I don't think it's anything to do with her not wanting her child to be exposed to diversity. She's just a self-righteous twatty bimbo who needs to get burned at the stake. It would be a rather fitting end, as well, considering what she's bitching about here.

[Justin]

The weak are often lonely in their weakness. And they seek shelter from the world that would force them to toughen up. If the magical element of fantasy stories makes this woman cringe, that's acceptable.

But it's her idea that it should make everyone cringe that's ignorant. I doubt she knows enough about Harry Potter to know that it has a good angle on social equality. She's probably just doing what she was raised to do: Shout at the devil.

-Justin

[Semjaza]

I read the other day about some lady trying to ban the book in some southern state in the US, which I assume the opening post was referring to. Some specific town. It's funny because previously they decided to not spend any money on books in Spanish for their library because it might "help" illegal immigrants in some remote capacity. It was later shot down for being anti-Hispanic, but it's kind of clear that the problem isn't the book's content as much as it's simply general intolerance.

I've not understood any of this stuff anyway. Harry Potter deals with fantasy magic. It doesn't deal with Wiccan belief systems or anything else. And even if it did, I don't know that that's necessarily something government agencies (even small-town ones) should be "protecting" anyone from... last I heard the US has freedom of religion laws in place. I could be wrong.

Should someone of Hindu belief be upset that there's Christian books aimed at children? I mean, where does that begin and end? I suppose that's another idea altogether.

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='Generic NPC #3'] I suppose that's another idea altogether.[/quote][COLOR=maroon]... What? No, that's the same principle! It works perfectly, lol, and shows the problem with these types of complaints.[/COLOR]

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Generic NPC #3']Last I heard the US has freedom of religion laws in place.[/quote]

Nope. They claim this, but it's absolutely not true. Christians dictate everything. If there really was religious freedom, gay rights and abortion wouldn't even be an issue. But [I]noooo[/I], according to Christianity, both those things are morally wrong and therefore should be illegal. Oh, and not only that, creationism being taught in schools shouldn't even be conisdered. But hey, let's just throw the whole "seperation of church and state" nonsense out the window. What they really meant when they said that was "seperation of church and state, unless that church is a Christian one".

The woman trying to ban Harry Potter probably also thinks that the world is 6,000 years old and that God put dinosaur fossils on Earth to test our faith.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Do most suburban moms have this little to do that they try and get kids books banned because they contain scenes of a nature which she finds alarming, God it's not as if Harry and Hermione were have underage sex and then aborted the child. The whole series is based around Good vs. Evil where Good is generally winning, at least over the first few books. I wonder if she's petitioned to ban Star Wars in case a bunch of kids go around in brown robes trying to manipulate their teachers using the Force and beating one another with coloured sticks.

Get out of the suburbs or better yet, take Papa Smurf's advice.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Papa Smurf']No, I don't think it's anything to do with her not wanting her child to be exposed to diversity. She's just a self-righteous twatty bimbo who needs to get burned at the stake. It would be a rather fitting end, as well, considering what she's bitching about here.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]Officially the funniest thing I've read this week. God help us all if you should ever enter a high position of political power with the right to hand down the death sentence PS. [/SIZE]

[vegeta rocker]

I'm not saying thats directly why adults dislike Harry Potter, i guess i am saying it seems like more of an ironic situation if any.

They don't care about the fact that the kids pretty much get along, i guess i would understand if Harry Potter was a self promoting Wiccan, but he isn't.

But like someone said if you banned Harry Potter what about all the Christian themed books?

You ban Harry Potter than you should ban The Chronicles of Narnia.

Bored housewives, they will be the end of us all.

[Kitchen Sink]

Nuts like this lady jumo to conclusions way too easily. She has obviously seen some fantasy magic here and gone ape over it because it's not the "christian" thing.

But has she read any of the book she claims to be defending here?

The Bible recounts, among other miraculous stories; God floods the earth, empowers a donkey to talk, rescues Shadrach, Meschach and Abindego from a fiery furnace, Drowns the egyptian army in the Red Sea, and that's after parting it to allow the Israelites passage across. There's the birth of the church age, where tounges of fire rained down upon the believers and through the Holy Spirit. they were able to speak in foreing languages here.

Not to mention, the most important one of all. Raising the dead, as seen in both Lazarus and Jesus himself.

The Holy Spirit works miracles through this book. Yet fantasy magic is something that has to be so railed against?

Radicals: They make me grit my teeth.

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Arial][size=2]Look, I'm going to let you in on a centuries old secret; the Cult of Tepfordsae Iveswae. It's very much like the stonemasons, but actually secret and for women. For generations, women have grown up, moved into the suburbs, had children and attempted to join this secret membership. Unfortunately, one of the requirements to join this group is that you have to accumulate points to gain membership, much like one would frequent flyer points.

Getting books banned is one of the activites that will gain you points. The Tepforsae Iveswae have a 'hit list' of sorts out, and on the top of that list is the Harry Potter books. My theory is that this woman has not been able to complete any of the other activities [such as justify your racial prejudice by hating only [i]all[/i] minorities, rather than just one], and so she must of course go for the 'big book ban' in order to gain membership.

Other books on this hit list are ones such as "To Kill A Mockingbird".

Now, I must ask that you don't tell anyone outside of this thread that I've divulged such secrets to you. [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]The Cult of Tepfordsae Iveswae are dangerous about their secrecy.

So how would I know? Because really I'm a 37-year-old member of the Cult, sent to keep an eye on what the youth are thinking, rather than the 18-year-old Australian I've led you all to believe.

[color=Silver][size=1]Seriously, though, I think when we consider those in history who have burnt books: Machiavelli, Hitler (I think...at the very least he restricted what you could read), Mao, most dictators in general...it's easy to see that there's really very little credibility to be given to someone who wants to burn a book they've probably never read anyway.

Personally, I think people who want to burn children's fantasy books are hicks who have nothing better to do. If we're following that train of thought: why have the stories of camelot, or even Halloween, or Santa Claus or ...well, anything remotely unnatural?

Also -- there's a talking donkey in the bible?!?!
[/size][/color][/size][/font]

[Kitchen Sink]

[QUOTE=Lady Asphyxia][font=Arial][size=2][color=Silver][size=1]

Also -- there's a talking donkey in the bible?!?!
[/size][/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]Yep. Though the donkey is a minor character and speaks only once. It's one of my favourite stories from the good book.

Numbers chapter 22 from verse 22-30

[NashvilleDream]

Honestly I don't understand how people can think that just because thre's somebody or something that shows views that they disagree with, that they think it's "evil".
Harry Potter is far from evil, it's a story about someone saving the world. Sorry, but how's that evil again?
I'd have to completely disagree with her.

[11100000101]

My school has the annoying habit to give us useless papers, with calendars, notes and sometimes, texts of psychologists (or something like that) directed to our parents. The last one was really funny (tragically funny) and this discussion has remembered me of it. It was called "Educating younger's liking" and said something like that:
[I]
"The parents have been complaining a lot about the interests and preferences that children demonstrate to have regarding various itens of life, and teachers agree to that. That's true, children and young's liking has been very strange lately.
(...)
Nowadays, parents seek less authoritarian educative practices and more involved ones [involved with who's beeing educated]. But this aspiration has been a source of many mistakes, such as to give yougers the chance to make their own choices and have their own opinion..."[/I]
Mrs. Rosely Sayão, psychologist and author of "How to educate my son?"

I'm sorry for the poor translation.
Let's just not consider that my school was extremely hypocrite -- I have Philosophy classes once in a week! I'm suposed to "learn how to think and be a critic person", isn't that right?
But I think that people who can't accept Harry Potter's readers (and RPG players, etc) are just like Mrs. Rosely.

[Jayna]

Oh brother...now Harry Potter books?! Children in America are becoming way to sheltered. I remember the good old days when we could knock eachother down and throw snow in the other's face. Now kids can't do that before a parent runs out, practically suffocates them with clothes to keep them warm and forbids them to play rough or else they'll catch a cold. (Nooo! Not a cold! I'm diieeing!)

But I digress. If parents are so concerned with what their children are reading why don't they just not let their kids read that book? Why do they need to spoil it for everyone else? Or better yet, educate their children that violence in books and movies is good, but in real life it's a no-no. Kids aren't as dumb as their given credit for, they'll understand if you take the time to teach them. I think it's because parents are LAZY. They don't want to handle their kids hands on, but if they get rid of the problem entirely they won't have to sit down and talk with their own flesh and blood. Oh goody!

[Boo]

[size=1]Are becoming way too sheltered? The whole world has been sheltered for lots of things for eons with only a slight exception for the past fifty years or so in a limited set of countries. There are just some slight idiots who still refuse to be a little more open minded about things than others.

The real problem with Harry Potter is that I don't like them, and that is enough to ban them anyway. It's a pity that there's so many good books out there and that such a majority chooses for the series that are about a young geek on a magic school. As a protest, I only watched the first three movies (... the prisoner one is the third, right?). Ha![/size]

[WONDERlicious]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][CENTER]I'm sorry but who could honestly think of Harry Potter as evil? Sure, there are some words and violence in the movies and books but it's a wonderful series. If the idea of sorcery is scary, who cares? It's your problem if you believe in witch-craft or not. Parents are scared of the fact their children might actually begin to live in a reality like "Harry Potter".

That's just imagination people. Not evil witchary.And sooner or later, the child might actually grow out of the series (when its over) and then move on to something else that hopefully won't killover their parents. ^_^

All in all, Harry Potter is not evil.[/FONT][/SIZE][/CENTER]

[Tekkaman]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]Hah, this is so funny; Harry Potter, evil?[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]Stupid Muggles; Someone's putting lies in 'The Daily Prophet' again.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]Anyway, I was recently at work today and I came across a locked bathroom door. I really had to go (I had my 'Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince' with me) so I tried yanking on the door feverishly followed by saying 'Alohomora'. To my surprise, the lock actually clicked![/color][/size][/font]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]A man on the other side laughed out loud; he'd apparently heard me while walking out.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]But yeah, I love Harry Potter and since my wife has gotten me into the books I haven't been able to put them down. I've already stated that i'm on my sixth book and i'm waiting for the fifth movie now.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=2][color=gray]I must say, i'm quite impressed with the stories; this is my best read so far (Next to my personal all-time-favorite, 'Where the Red Fern Grows').[/color][/size][/font]

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Harry Potter isn't evil... it's just an average series that, for whatever reason, has become rediculously popular. Nothing special about it, nothing to set it apart. That's the only problem with it. [/COLOR]

[Rachmaninoff]

And here I thought people objected due to the witchcraft and wizardry aspect of the series. There wasn't as much of an uproar about it where I live. Utah may be a Christian state, but it's not quite as hard-core as some of the Bible belt states in the USA. I mean those backwards idiots tried to ban Barney because he would say lets do magic instead of lets pretend! :laugh:

Besides not all parents are convinced that Harry Potter is evil, mine have a copy of all of the books and movies out and I know of others who like it as well.