Hermit Children

[musiQ_Q]

This is known as the 'phenomenon' that only occurs in Japan. Basically, kids just snap under pressure and lock themselves away in their rooms for years. They do not come out, are fed through cat flaps, live in piles of rubbish, and in the worst case scenarios, finally come out of their rooms in their mid 20's, only to murder their whole family. Japan keeps this a secret. Parents keep it a secret.

Why does this happen? and only in Japan...? it's a little bit interesting...and also a little bit sad.

[ma_tenshi]

Yeah... i heard that they contact other hermit children and exchange information. It's actually a conspiracy of a secret company, they leave after their 20s cuz that's when they're offically allowed into the group. The cases where they murder their family is usually just when their family gets in their way.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=musiQ_Q]This is known as the 'phenomenon' that only occurs in Japan. Basically, kids just snap under pressure and lock themselves away in their rooms for years. They do not come out, are fed through cat flaps, live in piles of rubbish, and in the worst case scenarios, finally come out of their rooms in their mid 20's, only to murder their whole family. Japan keeps this a secret. Parents keep it a secret.

Why does this happen? and only in Japan...? it's a little bit interesting...and also a little bit sad.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Not to doubt you musiQ_Q, but could you provide a link that might offer some corroborative evidence of this. I'm not calling you a liar or anything, I just find the whole concept a bit hard to believe.[/SIZE]

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Gavin, I think they're reffering to a phenomenon called [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori]Hikikomori[/URL], also known as Acute Social Withdrawl. It is real, and there are cases of the Hikikomorites killing their families.

It's hard to say how come this happens almost exclusivly in Japan. The most probable reason is that, in Japan, a lot of pressure is placed on the male children by their parents and society as a whole; they are always being pushed to be better or work harder, and society's expectations are often rediculous. As a result, a lot of people find it easier to just cut themselves off from it all. I don't blame them; life in Japan isn't all it's made out to be. So damn crowded, too.[/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=HedonismBot][COLOR=Sienna]Gavin, I think they're reffering to a phenomenon called [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori]Hikikomori[/URL], also known as Acute Social Withdrawl. It is real, and there are cases of the Hikikomorites killing their families.

It's hard to say how come this happens almost exclusivly in Japan. The most probable reason is that, in Japan, a lot of pressure is placed on the male children by their parents and society as a whole; they are always being pushed to be better or work harder, and society's expectations are often rediculous. As a result, a lot of people find it easier to just cut themselves off from it all. I don't blame them; life in Japan isn't all it's made out to be. So damn crowded, too.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Thanks for the link HD, having read the article, I have to admit I feel truly sorry for people who are subject to this "Hikkomori". The idea that in Japan it's not dealt with because it may bring shame to the family is deeply unsettling, but then as the article stated there is such pressure on children to succeed in Japan that it's not hard to believe that this kind of problem could develop. I know it detailed other similar phenomena in other countries, but seeing as this article is on the one specific to Japan, I'll stick to discussing the Japanese variant.

As for the most extreme cases "killing their families" I don't recall reading that, just the bus incident, which was tragic if indeed the child was Hikkomori.[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] Sad, but not surprising. The Asian education/society system in general puts so much pressure on young kids that some of them are bound to snap. I mean, I've heard plenty of cases from my mom where kids just go crazy and buckle under the pressure, either committing suicide or killing their parents. I think that's why Japan has the highest suicide rate, too.[/color]

[visualkei]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] Sad, but not surprising. The Asian education/society system in general puts so much pressure on young kids that some of them are bound to snap. I mean, I've heard plenty of cases from my mom where kids just go crazy and buckle under the pressure, either committing suicide or killing their parents. I think that's why Japan has the highest suicide rate, too.[/color][/quote]

Hm. Does Japan really have the highest suicide rate? I mean, I wouldn't be that surprised, even not that surprised after reading about the Hikikomori, but it's still really sad. They put so much pressure on school kids in the "developed" Asian countries, they're bound to snap in one way or another.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]Yes, this is a statistic I've heard much about. Many Japanese kids buckle under pressure or are bullied and jump off their school roofs. It's a common theme in some anime, too.

I don't blame the kids... I also don't blame the parents for being at least mildly strict... take a look at America's schoo system - we don't put much pressure on our children at all, and we have TONS of dropouts. In Japan, dropping out is a big deal, while here it's commonplace.

Like most things in life, the boundary is blurred and common people just don't realize or don't know how to change whats wrong. It's a pity, really.

Anyway, for a good look at the pressure on students in japan, go read [B]Boogiepop And Others[/B], in which its a major subplot.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='2006DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange']I don't blame the kids... I also don't blame the parents for being at least mildly strict... take a look at America's schoo system - we don't put much pressure on our children at all, and we have TONS of dropouts. In Japan, dropping out is a big deal, while here it's commonplace.[/COLOR][/quote]
[size=1]You don't blame the parents? They're the ones paying for their child, and often they feed and house their child well into young-adulthood. I read the wiki entry on it, and it said that lower class children with this disorder eventually leave their room because [i]they have to work to feed themselves![/i]

What I'm trying to say is that they're funding their child's problem, which is the wrong approach to take.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]You don't blame the parents? They're the ones paying for their child, and often they feed and house their child well into young-adulthood. I read the wiki entry on it, and it said that lower class children with this disorder eventually leave their room because [i]they have to work to feed themselves![/i]

What I'm trying to say is that they're funding their child's problem, which is the wrong approach to take.[/size][/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]It's a cultural thing. If they admitted the kid had a problem and brought in a psychiatrist or something, it'd bring shame upon their family, and dishonour, and that's not a good thing in Japanese society. It may be the wrong approach to take from a Western perspective, but this isn't a Western country or a Western problem, and they deal with it the only way they can to save face. And really, with the lower class kids, is that really helping them? Forcing them to leave just to survive wouldn't help [i]any[/i] of their psychiatric problems, and instead would just suppress them, which in the grand scheme is about as bad as pampering the issue, as it's not given the time to run its course.

Basically, I don't think you should be blaming the parents in a society you're not familiar with about an issue Western countries have never faced. Honestly, the extant of your knowledge about the issue is Wikipedia - does that really give you the credentials to lay blame?[/font][/color][/size]

[musiQ_Q]

i don't think it is as simple as 'who's to blame' in a situation like this. it is more of a 'build-up to the inevitable'. when children fall prey to school pressure, society, parents, or even their own dark thoughts, the natural human response is to hide. i am sure these issues are not new to any of us. hence, we have no right to alienate them, yet, it is also hard to relate to them.

[ma_tenshi]

[quote name='musiQ_Q']i don't think it is as simple as 'who's to blame' in a situation like this. it is more of a 'build-up to the inevitable'. when children fall prey to school pressure, society, parents, or even their own dark thoughts, the natural human response is to hide. i am sure these issues are not new to any of us. hence, we have no right to alienate them, yet, it is also hard to relate to them.[/quote]
i agree, i think we shouldn't find someone to blame, but instead do our best to reach out to them. to help them come out of their 'shells'. we need to send them a message that the world is not such a horrible dark place and that they can trust the people around them... and that they can trust us to accept them back into this world.

[visualkei]

[QUOTE=2006DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange]
I don't blame the kids... I also don't blame the parents for being at least mildly strict... take a look at America's schoo system - we don't put much pressure on our children at all, and we have TONS of dropouts. In Japan, dropping out is a big deal, while here it's commonplace.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Well, we don't put much pressure on our children-- compared to the Japanese. I haven't been to school in Japan, or have first hand observation, so all I have to say is based on second hand information. As far as pressure, I think it's a parental thing. In the US whether you're under pressure is usually because your parents have high expectations of you regarding school. I think that having high expectations is good, but you shouldn't force kids to do and worry about adult things. Kids should have time to be kids.

In Japan, I don't know. It seems like everyone has to go to school and keep doing better and better. It sounds like in Japanese schools, it's quite competitive. Your names are publicly posted from the most successful student to the least. Then you have all these middle schools and high schools that group you based on standardized test performance scores. Then there's this ideal track that you're expected to keep going on, and you better not fall off the choo-choo tracks.

In the US, I think people generally have the impression that there more choices. If you don't graduate high school or if you don't go to college, you can always do [this other alternative]. I was always like WTF?!?! when my peers in high school casually said they weren't going to college and go to beauty school or something like that, but now that I think about it, college isn't for everyone. They didn't like school in the first place, they just wanted to work, and that choice is readily available for them, and their parents also think it's a decent choice. Where as in Japan it seems like authority figures drill into kids' minds that you're doomed if you don't succeed in schools. I can understand why parents there would put so much pressure on their kids, they just want the best for them... but this isn't always the best considering all the pressure there is.

[Cyriel]

[SIZE=1]It's not only about the pressure of schooling, but as was mentioned before, the whole Japanese culture places a lot of expectations on the members of their society. Many of the hikikomori initially shut themselves away because they feel that they have failed at succeeding or fulfilling those expectations. Especially in Japan, where there is a strict norm of society that people are supposed to follow, divergence = failure. I can understand because it's similar to the culture of Korea, but Korea is a little bit more lenient, and they have adapted many Western influences as well. [quote name='DeadSeraphim']It's a cultural thing. If they admitted the kid had a problem and brought in a psychiatrist or something, it'd bring shame upon their family, and dishonour, and that's not a good thing in Japanese society. It may be the wrong approach to take from a Western perspective, but this isn't a Western country or a Western problem, and they deal with it the only way they can to save face.[/quote] I'd have to agree completely, because in Japanese culture this is how it is. By being found out to be a hikikomori, you can ruin your future chances of landing a job or being hired, and it can even affect the chances of your relatives as well. Businesses and those companies hiring in this extremely competitive market put prospective employees under a microscope, and if you have something shady or even a little bit off in your history or family, you won't be hired.

After reading the Wikipedia article, I thought that it was a bit sparse, so here's another that I found about a year ago. It addresses the matters of culture and pressure in a different manner, so it might be easier to understand from a Western point of view:
[URL=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/magazine/15japanese.html?ei=5088&en=7b1fdacbeb794332&ex=1294981200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all][b]Shutting Themselves In[/b][/URL]

It really is a serious problem, and I believe it still has some sort of stigma attached to it. However, it's becoming more publicized now, and people are trying to help. There are also humorous adaptations sprouting from the idea of the hikikomori, like several anime and manga.[QUOTE]Yeah... i heard that they contact other hermit children and exchange information. It's actually a conspiracy of a secret company, they leave after their 20s cuz that's when they're offically allowed into the group. [/QUOTE]But this sounds kind of absurd... It is obviously not some sort of 'conspiracy,' but a serious social and cultural problem that is developing. This sounds like you read the synopsis for [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_the_NHK!][i][b]Welcome to the NHK![/b][/i][/URL][/SIZE]

[Guest Hobbit]

Wow. This may sound kind of weird, but I can sort of relate to that.

I don't think it's always the parents that put the pressure on the kids, they put it on themselves. Maybe the parents and society give them the idea, but they internalize it and it just becomes this horrible fear of ruining their lives by making the wrong choice. If you think about it, in school, there's always a right and a wrong answer to everything, but once you get out in the world and have to start making decisions for yourself, there's no way to judge whether you're doing the right thing, or where you'll end up. No one is sitting there going, "Correct!" or "Sorry, try again!" So to prevent making the wrong choice, you just don't do anything, and get stuck in limbo. Of course, success and making the right decisions is much more important in Japan and other eastern countries than in western countries, so it's only natural that it would be more of a problem there.

Toward the end of high school, all my friends were talking about college and what they were going to do with their lives, where they were going, all their awesome plans for the future, and I just had no idea what I was doing. You just feel lost, and left behind. It wasn't nearly as bad as the Japanese, but I could feel myself doing that too, shutting myself off. Honestly, I think going to college anyway was what helped the most, just forcing yourself to get back out there and keep going, before things go too far. Though I still act like a mute most of the time in public...

It's sad that a few tragic cases have caused such a stigma for the hikikomori. I don't think most of them want to cause anyone harm, they're just lost. It's great what the New Start program is doing, and I just hope parents with children like this do something, before decades have passed.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=DeadSeraphim][size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]It's a cultural thing. If they admitted the kid had a problem and brought in a psychiatrist or something, it'd bring shame upon their family, and dishonour, and that's not a good thing in Japanese society. It may be the wrong approach to take from a Western perspective, but this isn't a Western country or a Western problem, and they deal with it the only way they can to save face. And really, with the lower class kids, is that really helping them? Forcing them to leave just to survive wouldn't help [i]any[/i] of their psychiatric problems, and instead would just suppress them, which in the grand scheme is about as bad as pampering the issue, as it's not given the time to run its course.

Basically, I don't think you should be blaming the parents in a society you're not familiar with about an issue Western countries have never faced. Honestly, the extant of your knowledge about the issue is Wikipedia - does that really give you the credentials to lay blame?[/font][/color][/size][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Hm... I'm definitely a week late.

Anyway, "western doctors," the article cites them as, recommend that you just drag the kid outside their room, while the Japanese approach is to wait until they come out.

But the article also says that "Due to this stigma and the resultant shame, many families strive to keep their child's hikikomori condition a secret from those in the community, thus further delaying parents from seeking outside intervention for their child." As you said, my only resource is this article, but it sounds like leaving them in their room would be a pretty bad idea as well. They apparently lose a 'real' social frame of reference, and in reality's place comes TV and movies. Therefore, they eventually respond to life as characters in movies/TV do. Again, that sounds like a problem.

Not to say I'm qualified to say with absolute certainty that its a problem that the parents let the kid stay in the room, but the general tone of the article leads me to believe that is in fact the case.[/size]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed]I wouldn?t completely blame the parents in cases such as described in the article. After all it sounds more like it?s a combination of social pressures and even more pressure that having such a problem in your family is unacceptable to society in general. So you have the problem of being expected to succeed and when you fail or feel incapable the person withdraws from everything. And then because it?s considered ?shameful? instead of trying to seek help, the family instead hides what is happening from the rest of society.

I don?t see any real changes happening until the society as a whole starts to work on not looking at the problem as being shameful. Though I?m sure they already are. I feel bad for them since it sounds like many of them probably suffer from depression and that probably just made the whole situation worse. And the longer you hide from it, the harder it is to overcome it. And I?m sure many of them could benefit from treatment or extensive socialization to help them move back into society.

It reminds me of the stigma that use to be and still does surround psychology and getting therapy in the US. The idea that you might need help to overcome problems was and still is considered a weakness. Even though we are a highly dependant society. It's gotten better, so hopefully the same will be true over in Japan. That they will get better at helping these kids instead of being shamed by them.[/COLOR]