Saddam Hussein Sentenced to Death

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#656446]
Ah, I just want to add the fact that the US government was instrumental to Saddam's acquisition of military and political control over Iraq back when Charlie's Angels was still the "in" thing. It's not a conspiracy theory thing, they favored (and aided in) the transfer of power to Saddam (who had amicable relations with the US then).

[center]~*~[/center]

I am rather appalled at how the general public was misinformed about the US administration's agenda. Survey says: 1) hunt for al Qaeda; 2) war against terrorism; 3) "liberation" of Iraq; and 4) Bush's compensation for Bush the Elder's, ehrm, faux pas.

If history really is "the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon" as Napoleon put it, I wonder how this [i]event[/i] will appear on books printed half a century from now.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Yes you have to love the all American strategy of replacing one dictator with another then waiting a few years to attack the country where we placed him. As I recall we did that in Cuba as well.

The entire administration is a farce (Can't spell today) especially where Iraq is concerned. At least when we invaded Afghanistan in 2002 the members of the military knew what they were after, Al Quieda and hopefully Bin Laden. But troops were lied to for Opperation Iraqi freedom in March 2003. There has NEVER been any proof what so ever of Saddam having connections to Al Quieda or weapons of mass destruction. And to be completely honest, in May 2003 when Bush declared Mission Accomplished I was in my apartment in Killeen Texas (one of the towns surrounding Fort Hood) supressing my urge not to throw the bedroom TV out the window.

Finally as we know history is written by the victors. But we have yet to see who those victors will be. So I guess only time will tell.[/color][/font]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Delta][COLOR=#656446']Sorry to hear that, chief. Just to level the playing field for Saddam, kindly Google the Panama invasion of the early 90's or, if you prefer to read about something more recent, what happened to Haditha about a year ago.[/COLOR][/quote]
[size=1]Dubya wasn't involved with the Panama invasion, so I'm not sure how bringing that up helps your argument.

Haditha is more beneficial to your argument, but by numbers alone, I'm going to say that the 25 or so murdered does not equal the genocide of Saddam. It's tough to compare Dubya, foolish though he may be, to such an evil man.[/size]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']It's tough to compare Dubya, foolish though he may be, to such an evil man.[/size][/quote]

[SIZE=1]I think in reality Alex the only way we'll really be able to make an accurate description of Saddam's governing abilities is twenty/thirty years down the road once we see what state Iraq itself is in. As I've said before I think there were far better targets for President Bush's Operation ___ Freedom and that Iraq simply became a scapegoat built up on a completely false argument of Weapons of Mass Destruction and his links to Al-Qaeda.

If we're to call it as it is, President Bush has caused the deaths of over 150,000 people in order to remove a relatively-moderate Muslim leader in a country which did not harbour or tolerate militant extremists. Compare that with Iran or Syria and I think that simply labelling Saddam as an "evil man" is inaccurate, or at least saying it's tough to compare "Duyba" to Saddam, Dubya just has U.N. permission to go tear-assing around where he pleases.[/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']If we're to call it as it is, President Bush has caused the deaths of over 150,000 people in order to remove a relatively-moderate Muslim leader in a country which did not harbour or tolerate militant extremists. Compare that with Iran or Syria and I think that simply labelling Saddam as an "evil man" is inaccurate, or at least saying it's tough to compare "Duyba" to Saddam, Dubya just has U.N. permission to go tear-assing around where he pleases.[/SIZE][/quote]
[size=1]I'm going to argue that a genocide of the Kurds by mustard and nerve gas is evil. Look up the figures yourself -- I'm glad to say that Bush hasn't gassed anyone like that. Now, Iran or Syria might be evil as well, but Saddam has committed disgusting acts as well.

I agree with you for the most part, just not the fact that Bush is as bad as Saddam.[/size]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']I agree with you for the most part, just not the fact that Bush is as bad as Saddam.[/size][/quote]

[SIZE=1]My bad, I never actually meant to imply that he was, simply that there are people out there more evil than Saddam who should have been removed from power instead of him. The way the operation has been conducted, we'll be seeing the effects for decades to come as Iraq tries to rebuilt itself without become a base for Muslim terrorists everywhere.[/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1']My bad, I never actually meant to imply that he was, simply that there are people out there more evil than Saddam who should have been removed from power instead of him.[/SIZE][/quote]
[size=1]Oh, right on. I definitely agree with you here. Invading Iraq was a grand f**k-up on our part, and it's something we'll have to live with for quite a while.[/size]

[Box]

This has probably been brought up before in the thread(I've been keeping puppies from chewing on the walls instead of reading), but he keeps asking to be killed by firing squad, and not hanging. Why would execution by firing squad be so different from hanging? Why wouldn't they see him as more of a martyr if his death were more humiliating?

[Zidargh]

[quote name='Box']This has probably been brought up before in the thread(I've been keeping puppies from chewing on the walls instead of reading), but he keeps asking to be killed by firing squad, and not hanging. Why would execution by firing squad be so different from hanging? Why wouldn't they see him as more of a martyr if his death were more humiliating?[/quote]

I assume it's due to the fact that death by firing squad would be a lot less painful (hanging involves the deliberate breaking of the neck) as two bullets are aimed at your heart by marksmen. Whereas hanging, not only being humiliating, will ensure he'll be forever remembered next to those such as Mussolini - a representation of the failure of his authority.

Hanging will not result in him being regarded as a martyr. Bear in mind that 'less humane' hangings involve placing the executed in public view.

[TheShinje]

[font=Fixedsys][size=2][color=crimson][size=1]Saddam wants the firing squad because that's a millitary death. Hanging is a commoners death.

And he should know. He put many a commoner to rest during his tenure as Iraqi "president."

Regardles of exactly how he dies, the Sunni's are going to put him on the pedestan of martyrdom no matter what. However fitting his execution may be, it's anathema to the goal of a stable Iraq.

I say hang him later, when the insurgency dies down[/size] .[/color][/size][/font]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid][quote name='Shinje][font=Fixedsys][color=crimson][size=1] I say hang him later, when the insurgency dies down.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]The only problem I see with that is if they do wait, they may as well give him a life sentence as I just don?t see that type of thing dying down anytime soon. And unfortunately, if he?s still alive, it just gives those who are trying to make him a martyr an excuse to continue the violence and demand that he be released. So though I?m not keen on the Death Penalty, I can see why they have chosen to execute him. [/COLOR]

[PWNED]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkOrchid']The only problem I see with that is if they do wait, they may as well give him a life sentence as I just don?t see that type of thing dying down anytime soon. And unfortunately, if he?s still alive, it just gives those who are trying to make him a martyr an excuse to continue the violence and demand that he be released. So though I?m not keen on the Death Penalty, I can see why they have chosen to execute him. [/COLOR][/quote]
Agreed, This would only give more reason for the violence to continue. I say kill him soon so that the insurgents will have one less reason for fighting.

If my post gives you the wrong idea; No, I am not supporting the death sentence for regular sentences. I'm just willing to make an exception for a man who has caused a lot of misery for his people and other people.

[Box]

[quote name='Zidargh']he'll be forever remembered next to those such as Mussolini - a representation of the failure of his authority.[/quote]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Times New Roman]Good point, but I think Mussolini wasn't hung in public. Didn't they just find him in some gas station? Besides that, Saddam might be able to give a speech or say something dramatic that'll encourage his sympathizers before he dies; you know, like when Mel Gibson yells "FREEDOM!" at the end of Braveheart(I don't know whether or not the real William Wallace did that).[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Zidargh]

[quote name='Box][COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Times New Roman]Good point, but I think Mussolini wasn't hung in public. Didn't they just find him in some gas station? Besides that, Saddam might be able to give a speech or say something dramatic that'll encourage his sympathizers before he dies; you know, like when Mel Gibson yells "FREEDOM!" at the end of Braveheart(I don't know whether or not the real William Wallace did that).[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]

Uh... no.

He tried to flee to Austria via a plane (intending to stay in Switzerland) but it was pretty much hi-jacked by resistance forces whom of which were Communist partisans. The resistance tried to take him and his mistress, Clara Petacci, to Lake Corno but they had to settle for Mezzegra.

On April 28th, which was the day after they'd been captured, both him and his mistress were shot and were then suspended for public view in Milan. So no, he wasn't hung to be executed, but he was hung as a form of humiliation. And trust me on this one, I'm sure he would've been rolling in his grave (had he had one at the time and not been dangling in mid-air by his feet) when many spat, cursed or even shot his carcass.

So either way, a form of public hanging is a form of public humiliation, of which I'm sure Saddam's still pretty pissed off about being found looking like a hobo in a hole.

[Box]

[QUOTE]So either way, a form of public hanging is a form of public humiliation, of which I'm sure Saddam's still pretty pissed off about being found looking like a hobo in a hole.[/QUOTE]


He really did look like a hobo, didn't he? So that's what they're going to be doing to him when the bottom drops out of the gallows(or whatever they're hanging him from)...I guess that shouldn't be surprising with the way Americans think of him. Oh, what his own people must think of him then! He actually did stuff to them. Then again, a lot of us Americans are just bleeding hearts about that stuff. Thankyou very much for clarifying that. It's very interesting, and it'll be nice to know what I'm talking about when my history class gets to WW2.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Execution is soft. Lock him up in a clown suit in a publicly viewable place. That'd be a bajillion times better.[/size]

[Sara]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Oh c'mon. You know you secretly love it.

There's something about seeing a mass-murderer reap what he sows that gives me satisfaction.[/size][/QUOTE][color=#b0000b][size=1]No, and I'm more than a little disgusted that you suggest that I do.

As open questions to thread participants: I realise that this came up in the last thread about the death penalty, but where is the line drawn between justice and revenge? In cases where "an eye for an eye" isn't possible (because of the nature or sheer numbers of the crime), do you feel that punishment should be meted out in the best, fastest way possible, or do you favor elaborately extended punishment/torment/humiliation?

The fact is, no matter what [i]does[/i] happen with Saddam Hussein, his punishment will never ([i]can[/i] never) be equal to the magnitude of his actions. So what is the goal at this point in time? Are we trying to exact revenge on him, or are we trying to finally put an end to a long, painful story?

Saddam killed a lot of people. But some of these suggestions, jesting or not, turn my stomach a bit.[/size][/color]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed][quote name='Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]As open questions to thread participants: I realise that this came up in the last thread about the death penalty, but where is the line drawn between justice and revenge? In cases where "an eye for an eye" isn't possible (because of the nature or sheer numbers of the crime), do you feel that punishment should be meted out in the best, fastest way possible, or do you favor elaborately extended punishment/torment/humiliation?[/size'][/color][/quote]I don't think I really said one way or the other, but when it comes to execution, I think it's better to do it quickly and get it over with. It may seem like a good idea to dish out an elaborate or extensive punishment, but in the end, that seems more like revenge instead of justice. And I've always seen the execution as payment for the crimes in that it means they will never be able to do it again. Dragging out their experience through torment/humiliation just seems pointless and a waste of time to me.[/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Baron Samedi][size=1']Execution is soft. Lock him up in a clown suit in a publicly viewable place. That'd be a bajillion times better.[/size][/quote]

[color=#9339ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Hey I'm all for that on two conditions:

1.) We can change his costumes from day to day. You know Clown, Fairy Princess, G. W Bush? Everyone needs variety.

2.) Visitors to his holding cell would be allowed to throw rotton produce at him.

Throw those two into the equation and I'll join the Air Force just to go to Iraq and check that out.[/color][/font]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]No, and I'm more than a little disgusted that you suggest that I do.[/size'][/color][/quote]
[size=1]Way to take a joke.

[QUOTE][color=#b0000b][size=1]As open questions to thread participants: I realise that this came up in the last thread about the death penalty, but where is the line drawn between justice and revenge? In cases where "an eye for an eye" isn't possible (because of the nature or sheer numbers of the crime), do you feel that punishment should be meted out in the best, fastest way possible, or do you favor elaborately extended punishment/torment/humiliation?[/size][/color][/QUOTE]
In all honesty, I'm assuming a lot of people want revenge. If you don't want revenge, I'm assuming you're alright with life in jail? The line between justice and revenge is a perceived one, not one written in the ground.

[QUOTE][color=#b0000b][size=1]The fact is, no matter what [i]does[/i] happen with Saddam Hussein, his punishment will never ([i]can[/i] never) be equal to the magnitude of his actions. So what is the goal at this point in time? Are we trying to exact revenge on him, or are we trying to finally put an end to a long, painful story?[/size][/color][/QUOTE]
Perhaps exacting revenge is a way of putting an end to the long, painful story.[/size]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']Perhaps exacting revenge is a way of putting an end to the long, painful story.[/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]With the way Iraq is going it's just going to be the end of a chapter in the larger, long, painful story.[/color]

[Sara]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']Way to take a joke.[/size][/quote][color=#b0000b][size=1]Way to insinuate that I enjoy the pain and humiliation of others, brushing off my offense as simply the inability to take a joke.

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']The line between justice and revenge is a perceived one, not one written in the ground.[/size][/quote]I think the line between justice and revenge lies between a quiet death sentence and a publically televised execution so people can see him "right before he's hanged, with the noose around his neck and his bewildered face." It lies between feeling relieved that a murderer is sentenced, and taking joy in the fact that the murderer will die.[/color][/size]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]Way to insinuate that I enjoy the pain and humiliation of others, brushing off my offense as simply the inability to take a joke.[/color'][/size][/quote]
[size=1]As if my tone wasn't joking enough? Come on! I knew you were serious... was it that cryptic that I was being facetious?

[QUOTE][color=#b0000b][size=1]I think the line between justice and revenge lies between a quiet death sentence and a publically televised execution so people can see him "right before he's hanged, with the noose around his neck and his bewildered face." It lies between feeling relieved that a murderer is sentenced, and taking joy in the fact that the murderer will die.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]
Hey, for some that's part of the justice. Think of the folks whose families were gassed by the guy -- I'm sure they'd be perfectly fine with watching the man hang on TV. To you that's revenge, to them it's justice. It's an entirely subjective measure.

And cannot one derive joy from justice being served?[/size]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#656446]^ Only the one with a debauched sense of it, my good sir.

What a burlesque depiction of "justice": Plato's probably roffling in his grave . :animesmil [/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#656446]^ Only the one with a debauched sense of it, my good sir.

What a burlesque depiction of "justice": Plato's probably roffling in his grave . :animesmil [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Then tell me what is justice.[/size]

[Starwind]

I make my return to the Otaku here and now.

As a member of Americas army, I can't say how thrilled I was to here that this tyrannical monster was finally going to hang for his crimes against humanity.

The only travisty to justice in this case was the fact that it took so long to find him guilty. Anyone who's kept tabs on the news, knows that this has further divided the nation and that things are only going to get worse unfortunatly.

However, this moment will ultimately prove to be an important milestone in Iraq's history. What awaits this nation and it's fledgling government is still uncertain, but I truly believe that the sentence handed down for Saddam Hussein was the best one possible. And it's everything he deserves.