Money- Root to all Evil?

[Chiyasha]

Heya guys! Thanks for taking the time to read what am I gonna say! Alright, here goes!

This is one of my wonderings. A wondering that still roam in my mind. A wondering known as '[B]MONEY[/B]'. In [B]religious [/B] view, [B]money is root to all evil[/B]. In [I]materialistic yet modern [/I] view, [I]money can bring you happiness[/I]. So, lemme get this straight. We know that we need money. Not just for basic needs. Not just for luxuries. Money can buy whatever you desired! :love: Who thinks (or not) money should be the most important thing ever? In my opinion, money is the most important thing ever and therefore can buy me happiness :D and lastly not really root to all evil (depends on the usage).

Anybody have anything to say? Well, feel free to speak up!

[captain linda]

There's this "mathematical formula" for money being the root of all evil, but I forgot it. It's funny how money buys things that bring you or someone else happiness... Buying a cake for someone and making them happy makes you happy too, right? :catgirl:

[Sara]

[size=1][color=#b0000b][quote name='Chiyasha']Money can buy whatever you desired![/quote]I would have to disagree with that, m'dear. I mean, for goodness sake... even [i]Mastercard[/i] disagrees with you on that.

The Bible passage in question: [quote name='1 Timothy 6: 7-10][size=1][color=#b0000b]For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. [b]For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.[/b] Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.[/color'][/size][/quote]The translation is NIV. [/color][/size]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]So to add on to what [B]Sara[/B] said, [I]love of money[/I] is the root of all evil. Money itself is neither good nor evil - it is a standard of measurement. Just as inches measure distance and minutes measure time, dollars, pounds, yen, marks, and euros all measure value.
[quote name='Chiyasha']We know we need money. Not just for basic needs.[/quote]
That's not true. We only need money for essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, and, some might say, utilities, though the last can be viewed as a luxury itself. Since luxuries are (obviously) nonessential items, we do not need money in the same sense. Oh, and this is in no way a sermon saying we should all become Puritans or Amish. I like my luxuries very much, and I would be loathe to part with them. The point, though, is that they are not [I]necessary.[/I] We could live without them, even if the idea is less than pleasant. The only reason we would need money for luxuries is that now, since the abandonment of the barter system, money is the only accepted payment option. I can't walk into Office Max and say, [B]"I want a brand new Dell, and I'll pay you in these here livestock and produce."[/B] It doesn't work anymore. Money is required on order to obtain luxuries, but since we don't really [I]need[/I] the luxuries, we don't need the money.


The evil is wholly human. When a person desires money itself, they are essentially looking for happiness.
[QUOTE=Chiyasha]...[I]money can bring you happiness[/I].

Money can buy whatever you desired![/QUOTE]
Here, the person in question is looking for happiness through material fulfillment. The unfortunate aspect of this line of thinking is that the only way to continue in one's money-bought happiness, one must have a continually renewed supply of money. Once one spends money, it's gone, period, and more must be obtained. This cycle is self-perpetuating, meaning one event leads to another leads to another leads back to the initial event. Or rather, one desires item, must get money for item, spends money, aquires item, desires another item, etc. You get the idea. However, this cycle unchecked can also lead straight to greed. If one is never satisfied with one's possessions (dissatisfaction also involves out of date items, like cars and electronics), one will inevitably be wanting more, and more and more. In order to stay happy, people will begin searching for ways to make more money faster, and some will be unafraid to go through illegal and/or immoral channels to get the money they desire. Thus we now have evil, not caused by money itself, but out of a person's desire for it.
[QUOTE]There is one who makes himself rich, yet has nothing, and one who makes himself poor, and yet has great riches.
-Proverbs 13:7[/QUOTE]
This verse is basically saying that it's not what or how much you have that makes you happy, but how content you are with what you [I]do[/I] have. It is [I]not[/I] saying to go be a beggar, just that money and possessions don't have that big an impact on true happiness.

If you (or anyone, for that matter) have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll answer as best I know how, and if I can't answer then I'll find someone who can.[/FONT]

[thepinkprincess]

huh, some topic u guys got going, i wouldnt say money is 'THE ROOT OF EVIL'.
...but it could be, depending on ur life and how u use money....
just dont let money get to ur head, some ppl are over-powered with envy..... :rolleyes:
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][INDENT][SIZE=1][B]thepinkprincess[/B] please improve your posts, here at OtakuBoards, we greatly emphasize the concept of having clear, easy to read posts. This includes correct use of spelling, grammar and punctuation. So please use something like word or hotmail as they both have a spell check feature. ~SunfallE[/SIZE][/INDENT][/COLOR]

[Hanabishi Recca]

[quote name='Chiyasha] A wondering known as '[B]MONEY[/B]'. In [B]religious [/B] view, [B]money is root to all evil[/B'].[/quote]

The Bible doesn't say that at all. The Bible says, "The love of money is the root of all evil." Not that money is the root of all evil. If money was the root of all evil then not even churches would be able to stay preaching the word to the world. Amazing isn't it?


[quote]lastly not really root to all evil (depends on the usage).
Anybody have anything to say? Well, feel free to speak up![/QUOTE]

Heh heh, doesn't matter on the usage now ;)

Seriously its the love of money that is the evil not using money period. That would be stupid of God if he actually said that because in the old testament he blessed Abraham with alot of things and one of them was riches and that would be agaist what he said later. God doesn't lie or do something against his will.

With that being said, money is a good thing. Because no one would be able to live with it. Even some of the things this world has going gives money to the poor (Foodstamps and every such thing). I actually agree with this because it does help poor people get better in life (Even though once you get a good job they cut down the payments so you won't be able to even get enough and your back in the same thing). Of course, I thing that if people are going to use foodstamps then they shouldn't live off of it forever!

Thanks for your time (and get the scripture right next time! (Its all in fun my friend))

Dae

[vegeta rocker]

Yeah, LOVE of money is the root of all evil and in a sense i think it is true.

Most bad things stem from greed.

[Box]

Well actually, it seems to be the love of [I]things[/I], or maybe just love in general. It could also be the need or desire of things. Annoyance, envy, and anger(for no reason) also seem to be causes. You know that you'd just love to slap some person you just can't stand - some people just decide to blow them up with a bunch of other innocent people...but I guess they might have been taught that by their parents because their parents [I]love[/I] them. I believe that love in general(money, people, things, etc.) is the cause of most evil, but after that, it gets extremely technical.

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed]How easy life would be if we could just claim money is the root to all evil. Then all we would have to do is get rid of money and the world would be saved! But then as others have already pointed out, you stop and think for a moment and realized that the evil is not in the money, but rather in the person who loves the money.

This type of thing is a flaw in the person, not the money. Or whatever object it is that they desire. It?s the greed; lust, jealousy or what ever may drive the person to obtain money or any other thing that is evil. And even then a certain amount of desire for such things is normal, as you need it for the very basic things, like food, clothing, shelter, etc.

And even then I think it?s not quite the same as true evil. Desiring money or other things I believe only becomes evil when you are willing to destroy or harm another person in order to obtain more. Like the corporation that crushes a smaller one in the name of more profits, (and by crush I mean they do so through illegal methods) or the spouse who murders the other one to get the insurance money. Now that in my opinion is evil, not the money. But the person who desires it and is willing to do anything to get it.
[/COLOR]

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Chiyasha, your post slightly disturbs me. It seems like you're implying that money can buy you love. Also you plainly said that you believe it's the most important thing ever. Both beliefs, in my book, are absurd. Money is important to me, but it certainly isn't the most important thing in my life.

Like the mastercard commercial says, some things are priceless. I believe that's true. I also believe those things that can't be bought with money are the best things in this world.

But dang do i want an xbox 360 and a sweet leather jacket....I just gotta get the green. :grumble:


[/FONT][/COLOR]

[black rurouni]

Money is not the root of all evil the love of money is the evil of all evil, also I'll add the fact that greed is one of the deadly sins.( love of money= greed)

[neomonkey]

:animeknow Yeah, in a way it is the root of all evil. But only when it's used irresponsibly.

When used corectly it isn't the root. :animeknow

[Demoness Satoe]

[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=1][B]It can be; depending on the user or needers usage. Money is something everybody wants, because it can buy even more money, in a sense, and they want it to seem powerful.

But "The Root of All Evil" term I can't agree with. People do bead things for many other reasons, not just money. But yeah, a major cause is.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[James]

[font=arial]Money itself is neutral...I don't think it has any inherent good or bad element. As with many other things, it entirely depends on [i]how[/i] the money is used.

So it really comes down to the individual and how they choose to take advantage of the tools available to them - whether that's money or something else.[/font]

[Andy]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]
But dang do i want an xbox 360 and a sweet leather jacket....I just gotta get the green. :grumble:
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkRed]I second that motion. I'd love to have both of those. Anyway's, I really dont think money is the most important thing in this world either. I mean, have you never heard the saying "The best thing's in life are free"? And I have to agree with that, because you can't buy true love no matter how you look at it. A person should love you for who you are and not what you have, at least that's what I believe. Because, truthfully, I would hate to have someone love me just because I just acquired a large sum of money. So, i'm gonna have to say that money is not the most important thing in this world. But it may very well be the root to all evil...maybe. But seriously, I really want an xbox 360.:animesigh[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Chiyasha]

... somehow money is linked to religion. I can't agree money is root to all evil! Wait, is this belief had something to do with the past? Consider this:- During the Reformation times, Catholic priests would like peasants to donate money in order to build a new cathedral. Well then, how come the Head of the Church back then were so prosperous that he didn't use some of his money to build it? That'll solve everything right? You know back then peasants were mostly poor.

It's true that money cannot buy 'real' happiness but to me, money CAN! Consider this as well: Do you think money can regulate a certain action from you? For example, when you have sufficient amount of money, you feel happy because you can purchase things that you desired. What do you think?

Another example can be when, say your secret has been known by person x. The best way is to bribe person x with money, which it's at least the fairest way to end a scandal straightaway. From that, can you say money is still root to all evil? Or else?

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]Somehow I'm not quite sure you got what we all just essentially repeated to you, bucko. Here, let me clear some things up fo you. (As if my [I]last[/I] post wasn't enough! ^_^ )[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha']I can't agree money is root to all evil![/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Good. Neither do I. And most of the others who posted her don't agree with that statement either. (I don't think any of them do, actually.) What almsot all of us responded to you with was a correction to that statement: [I][B]love of money[/B][/I] is the root of evil, not money itself. I can't stress enough to you how important that disctinction is. Money is incapable of causing evil, since it possesses no will of its own. The evil - as I stated earlier - is human; we cause the evil, not inanimate objects or abstract concepts.[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha']... somehow money is linked to religion.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Uh, no. Money is independent of religion - as I also said earlier, it is only a measure of value. Right and wrong, and thus good and evil, are concepts taught to us by a Higher Power (why [I]that[/I] is important is a rather lengthy discussion itself, and one I shall not post here), but it is [I]evil[/I] that is linked to religion, not money.[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha']Consider this:- During the Reformation times, Catholic priests would like peasants to donate money in order to build a new cathedral. Well then, how come the Head of the Church back then were so prosperous that he didn't use some of his money to build it?[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Greed. That's all. Just greed.

No one is free from the temptation of sin, not even those in, oh, let's say 'holy' positions. The Catholic Church at this time was very corrupt; church members were allowed to 'pay' for their sins buy purchasing [B][URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgences][COLOR=Blue]indulgences (click me)[/COLOR][/URL][/B], but the practice, while well intentioned, was [B][URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuses_of_Indulgences][COLOR=Blue]abused (click me)[/COLOR][/URL][/B] more often than not. This money generally went straight into the pockets of higher-ranking priests. There was also the issue of power involved, but I feel that somehat irrelevant to the discussion.[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha']It's true that money cannot buy 'real' happiness but to me, money CAN! Consider this as well: Do you think money can regulate a certain action from you? For example, when you have sufficient amount of money, you feel happy because you can purchase things that you desired. What do you think?[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Well, if you're content with temporary happiness, then go for it. I'm just saying that there's more out there.[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha']Another example can be when, say your secret has been known by person x. The best way is to bribe person x with money, which it's at least the fairest way to end a scandal straightaway. From that, can you say money is still root to all evil? Or else?[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Oh boy. This suggest to me that the secret that Person X is now aware of is a rather dangerous one to yourself. In that case, the [I][B]absolute best[/B][/I] way out of that situation is to resolve the secret so that it no longer plagues you. Mistakes can be dealt with quickly, and people will at least look at you favorably for admitting it openly. Accusations are much more destructive to your image and reputation, and those are extremely hard, if not impossible, to build back.

I hope this clarifies some things for you. And again, I'm always open for a good discussion, so if you don't agree with some (or all) of what I've said, please say so, and explain why.

-A[/FONT]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkOrchid]I would have said desiring things that you do not need is perhaps the root to all evil. And even then it would depend on the desire. Money is simply a means for purchasing what you desire and saying it is the root of evil is off since money is an inanimate object that does not have a will of it?s own.

It is the human who uses it to further their desires that is evil. And even then as others have pointed out, the desire to have what you don?t need isn?t necessarily evil. I think there are various degrees of sin/evil. From the more extreme like indifference mentioned where one person will kill another just to get money to where say a parent works more than needed and ignores their children because they want to purchase a more expensive car.

And when I say ignores their kids, I mean they only care about getting another car. Or whatever thing they are working to get. My mom knew someone who even when her kid was taken from school to the hospital for a severe allergic reaction to something, she wouldn?t leave work to go to the hospital since she didn?t want to miss out on getting paid. And it wasn?t a case of needing the money; her and her husband were very wealthy. So obviously wealth meant more to her than her own kid did.

Also, there is nothing wrong with wanting more; I think the problem lies in people so caught up in the want part that they neglect the things that are needed. Or they think that only if they had more money things would be better instead of appreciating the things in their life that are good. [/COLOR]

[The13thMan]

[QUOTE=Allamorph][FONT=Arial]Somehow I'm not quite sure you got what we all just essentially repeated to you, bucko. Here, let me clear some things up fo you. (As if my [I]last[/I] post wasn't enough! ^_^ )[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Good. Neither do I. And most of the others who posted her don't agree with that statement either. (I don't think any of them do, actually.) What almsot all of us responded to you with was a correction to that statement: [I][B]love of money[/B][/I] is the root of evil, not money itself. I can't stress enough to you how important that disctinction is. Money is incapable of causing evil, since it possesses no will of its own. The evil - as I stated earlier - is human; we cause the evil, not inanimate objects or abstract concepts.[/FONT][/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Root is the key word here. In the sense that the word is used here suggests that there are things that branch forth from the root, and also there are things that can go deeper down past the root, in the opposite direction. Maybe an older piece of the root or the dirt perhaps. In that sense, then maybe the dirt is indeed money. Therefore the statement money is the root of all evil is indeed true. It's just the next step up that most everybody agrees with is that the love of money is the root of all evil. Well, without money there can be no love of money.

Let's even go further though. Who or what created money? Man created money. Therefore man is the root of all evil. And then if you want to get into religion, would not the creator of man be the absolute root of all evil? Or maybe it's the free will that the creator gave to man? Who knows?

You say that money itself is incapable of causing evil, right? Well, how exactly is the love of money any more capable of directly causing an act of actual evil? Is it not the person that actually commits this act of evil? Of course it's the person. Also, i believe the love of money is an abstract concept.

Do you understand what i'm getting at? To say the love of money is the root and that money itself is not is a little hypocritical.


[/FONT][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Allamorph]
[FONT=Arial]Well, if you're content with temporary happiness, then go for it. I'm just saying that there's more out there.[/FONT][/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]What happiness is truly absolute? Is there any source of happiness that can last forever?
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Allamorph]
[FONT=Arial]Oh boy. This suggest to me that the secret that Person X is now aware of is a rather dangerous one to yourself. In that case, the [I][B]absolute best[/B][/I] way out of that situation is to resolve the secret so that it no longer plagues you. Mistakes can be dealt with quickly, and people will at least look at you favorably for admitting it openly. Accusations are much more destructive to your image and reputation, and those are extremely hard, if not impossible, to build back.

I hope this clarifies some things for you. And again, I'm always open for a good discussion, so if you don't agree with some (or all) of what I've said, please say so, and explain why.

-A[/FONT][/QUOTE][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Eh, i don't like that you say it's the absolute best way. It's really just an opinion, therefore it's not really absolute. It's relative.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Chiyasha]

[quote name='The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Let's even go further though. Who or what created money? Man created money. Therefore man is the root of all evil. And then if you want to get into religion, would not the creator of man be the absolute root of all evil? Or maybe it's the free will that the creator gave to man? Who knows?[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]

[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkOrchid']It is the human who uses it to further their desires that is evil. [/COLOR][/quote]

Yeah, man can be a root of all evil. But, I was thinking about this as well and consider this: I think man created money to encourage fairness in trading (or other legal matters), therefore to [B]avoid stealing[/B] (and other crimes). Whaddaya think?

I guess money can put you off sometimes. We are now living in a materialistic society where work is essential for people to get income for their needs and probably care less about poverty today. Lemme tell you something: I came from a family where money is the number 1 basic need (although we are a middle-class family). I suppose what I learned from my dad (mostly, he's the one who always lecture about the importance of money. Please argue to this.) has fixed my way of seeing money as a primary need.

[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial]No one is free from the temptation of sin, not even those in, oh, let's say 'holy' positions. The Catholic Church at this time was very corrupt; church members were allowed to 'pay' for their sins buy purchasing [B][URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgences][COLOR=Blue]indulgences (click me)[/COLOR][/URL][/B], but the practice, while well intentioned, was [B][URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuses_of_Indulgences][COLOR=Blue]abused (click me)[/COLOR][/URL][/B] more often than not. This money generally went straight into the pockets of higher-ranking priests. There was also the issue of power involved, but I feel that somehat irrelevant to the discussion.[/FONT']-A[/FONT][/quote]

Thank you for highlighting the word 'indulgences'! I was struggling to remember while typing down yesterday's reply. Ok, this stuff may be irrelevant but it has at least something to do with this discussion, where money is the root of all evil... from most of the replies I read, it is the love of money is evil, not the money itself.

[Darktactic]

Whether money is evil in itself or not, it seems to me that all things requiring money are negative (money is in war, politics, corrupt people, etc.). Even if there are instances where money isn't necessarily negative, I can't think of any time when it has a positive effect.

[Sara]

[QUOTE=The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Root is the key word here. In the sense that the word is used here suggests that there are things that branch forth from the root, and also there are things that can go deeper down past the root, in the opposite direction. Maybe an older piece of the root or the dirt perhaps. In that sense, then maybe the dirt is indeed money. Therefore the statement money is the root of all evil is indeed true. It's just the next step up that most everybody agrees with is that the love of money is the root of all evil. Well, without money there can be no love of money.

Let's even go further though. Who or what created money? Man created money. Therefore man is the root of all evil. And then if you want to get into religion, would not the creator of man be the absolute root of all evil? Or maybe it's the free will that the creator gave to man? Who knows?

You say that money itself is incapable of causing evil, right? Well, how exactly is the love of money any more capable of directly causing an act of actual evil? Is it not the person that actually commits this act of evil? Of course it's the person. Also, i believe the love of money is an abstract concept.

Do you understand what i'm getting at? To say the love of money is the root and that money itself is not is a little hypocritical. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE][color=#b0000b][size=1]Your metaphors are breaking my mind. Also I am not sure you know what 'hypocritical' means.

The statement that [i]the love of money is the root to all kinds of evil[/i] does not:[list][*]mean that money is evil.
[*]mean that everything which requires money stems from evil.
[*]imply that love can be evil.
[*]have anything to do with dirt.
[*]say that people are evil for having created money.
[*]say that people are evil because they use money.
[*]say anything at all about free will. [/list] What it says is this: the [i]love of money[/i]?the desire, the obsession, the yearning for more, the wanting things for the sake of having them?leads to all kinds of problems.

The love of money is greed. It's wanting things, not because you need them, but because they are there and [i]they are not yet yours[/i]. This leads to problems. The love of money [i]directly causes[/i] people to lie, cheat, steal, injure, deceive, attack, kill, invade, and destroy.

Money by itself has no agency. To assert otherwise is ridiculous. Greed is also closely linked to jealousy, another major cause of human conflict.[/color][/size]

[dranixe]

[quote name='black rurouni']Money is not the root of all evil the love of money is the evil of all evil, also I'll add the fact that greed is one of the deadly sins.( love of money= greed)[/quote]


Yeah i agree... Well its really true that money is neutral. But it could be idealistic depends on how u use it. ITs like science... IT really depends on how u use it, either in a good or bad cause... Honestly its better if everything is free? haha...

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Chiyasha']Yeah, man can be a root of all evil. But, I was thinking about this as well and consider this: I think man created money to encourage fairness in trading (or other legal matters), therefore to avoid stealing (and other crimes). Whaddaya think?[/quote]
[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I don't think there's any one reason man created money. The reason you gave makes sense to me. Though i wouldn't consider it the main reason. I think it might be that they figured that not everybody wanted to trade something for a chicken. So then the chicken farmer could only trade with somebody who wanted a chicken and his options were limited. So money was invented to give the chicken farmer more options. Ya get what i'm saying?

That's right, i'm saying the chicken farmer [B]created[/B] money! Bwahahaha...
[/FONT][/COLOR]


[QUOTE=Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]Your metaphors are breaking my mind. Also I am not sure you know what 'hypocritical' means.

The statement that [i]the love of money is the root to all kinds of evil[/i] does not:[list][*]mean that money is evil.
[*]mean that everything which requires money stems from evil.
[*]imply that love can be evil.
[*]have anything to do with dirt.
[*]say that people are evil for having created money.
[*]say that people are evil because they use money.
[*]say anything at all about free will. [/list] What it says is this: the [i]love of money[/i]?the desire, the obsession, the yearning for more, the wanting things for the sake of having them?leads to all kinds of problems.

The love of money is greed. It's wanting things, not because you need them, but because they are there and [i]they are not yet yours[/i]. This leads to problems. The love of money [i]directly causes[/i] people to lie, cheat, steal, injure, deceive, attack, kill, invade, and destroy.

Money by itself has no agency. To assert otherwise is ridiculous. Greed is also closely linked to jealousy, another major cause of human conflict.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I didn't intentionally imply a single thing on that list. It's strange that a person can read my post and have no idea what i meant...but i don't blame you. I am a bit hard to understand at times, you're not the first to misunderstand me. Seriously though man, it's like i only write down half the story and expect people to read inbetween the lines or some ****...i gotta stop that! >.<

Although i do know what hypocritical means...i'm not a moron. Here, watch me become a hypocrite!

Name calling is horrible, you yankee.

See? I know!

Now i shall reply to your list in list form!

- I never said money was evil. I said that money is possibly the root to evil, just depends on how you look at it. The root isn't evil, the tree is! It's like an oak tree that kills babies!
- Didn't say things that require money are evil either. I honestly have no idea where you got that from....
- Of course love isn't evil. Although, just like most everything else, it can lead to evil actions.
- It's a [B]metaphor[/B]! I imagine the root being a tree root. Trees live in dirt! Get it now?
- People aren't evil for creating money. I never even said people, i said man. That's singular. Individuals are evil, not all men in general. Also, i suppose i left some personal beliefs out of the statement that would've clarified. Uhm...man have the potential for evil. There are evil men just as there are good men. It's kinda hard to explain what i mean....
- Never said they're evil for using money.
- I know the statement didn't say anything about free will. I was the one that first mentioned free will. Free will is a tangent in this discussion so i'll briefly explain why i mentioned it. God gave us free will, but without choice there can be no free will. So if there is only good in the world there can be no choice and no free will. So by giving us free will he also created a choice, that choice was the opposite of good - evil. So we were talking about how money is the root of evil blah blah and i thought of how i thought free will was the actual root of all evil. So there. ^L^

[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]Oh, wow. Looks like I?ve got some catching up to do. First, clarification time.
[QUOTE=The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic] You say that money itself is incapable of causing evil, right? Well, how exactly is the love of money any more capable of directly causing an act of actual evil? Is it not the person that actually commits this act of evil? Of course it's the person. Also, i believe the love of money is an abstract concept.

Do you understand what i'm getting at? To say the love of money is the root and that money itself is not is a little hypocritical. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[FONT=Arial]Ehh, actually, you mean [U]contradictory[/U]. You seem to know, from your following post, how to demonstrate a hypocrite, but a hypocrite by definition is a person whose [I]actions[/I] are in opposition to their stated beliefs. What I said was not inconsistent from what I believe, it was inconsistent with what [I]you[/I] believe.

Love can be one of two things, an abstract concept or an action. Now, I know is seems like I?m contradicting myself again, but please bear with me because I wish to look at both in context. Love as a concept is essentially how we as individuals are able to define a feeling we all share. We could just as easily have called it ?toad?, though admittedly it sounds kind of ludicrous. (I really toad that girl. ^_^ ) In simpler words, the concept is how we know what love actually [I]is[/I]. And yes, concepts are just as incapable of causing evil as are lifeless objects. On that we agree, at least.

Love ? the action ? is [I]what[/I] we actually feel towards some object, whether it be siblings, parents, boy/girlfriends, husbands/wives, pets, ourselves, or inanimate objects, and in spite of the fact that said object may not be able to return that love. As a feeling, or dormant action if you will, love can (please note: not does, [B]can[/B]) breed covetousness, lust, greed, anger, despair, and a myriad of other sinful emotions and thoughts. And yes, despair, along with depression (not necessarily hormonal, mind you) are counted as sins. That has an explanation and proof, but they have no place or bearing in this thread. As an outward action, love can beget hoarding, murder, bribery, blackmail ? again, the list can go on. This is what the proverb is referring to. Does that help?

Oh, and in regard to your metaphor, there, I think you either misunderstood the original ?root? metaphor or else just decided to twist it to your purposes. I?m a good guy, so I?ll assume the former.

The dirt has absolutely nothing to do with the root metaphor; it?s simply the surrounding environment. As for the root itself, you seem to be thinking of [I]any[/I] root, while, taken in context (again with the context), the word ?taproot? would help elucidate a few things. I know that is not what the proverb uses, but the meaning of ?root? there is ?source?, and ?taproot? proffers that image readily. Have you eve tried to get rid of those pesky dandelion weeds (or any weeds ? spearmint, for that matter) in your yard? Actually, I think I [U]will[/U] use spearmint plants here. My mother started growing spearmint plants in our front garden a few summers ago. Interestingly enough, spearmint seems to thrive in our soil; at one count, I totaled over 220 different sprouts, and all in a little under 70 square feet, which is a pretty small area. We attempted to pull them out once, but it didn?t work. What I discovered pulling up the hordes of little things was that there were generally ten to thirteen spearmint shoots on one root, and the root that I?d pulled up had severed somewhere underground. This meant that the parent root, or taproot, was still entrenched down there, capable of producing more plants. Which it did.

The point of that blithering was to illustrate the whole ?source? point. The evil ?grows? outward from the ?root?, the (action) love of money. Direction is irrelevant. Up, down, sideways, above ground, in the dirt, it doesn?t matter. The point is that evil originates from the love of money, which is a [I]human[/I] action. True, it is man that makes the choice to love money, but man also possesses the ability to choose otherwise; the evil is rooted in the chosen action.[/FONT]
[quote name='The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic] What happiness is truly absolute? Is there any source of happiness that can last forever?[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial][B]Warning! Sermon Ahead.[/B]
You know what happiness I am going to tell to you. It sounds trite, it sounds cheesy, it sounds overused, but it?s still true. Absolute happiness, along with contentment, peace, joy, etc., comes from one source. God (aka YHWH, The I Am), and his Son Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Know Him (Him meaning the Trinity here ? a paradox to us), believe that Christ?s innocent death paid for your sin and accept that payment, and you will know these that I have listed. [B][I][U]Now[/U][/I][/B], with that said, I am not here to force that off on any of you who read this. This is only my statement of the truth. You may disagree, you may condemn me, but I [I][B]will not[/B][/I] interfere with your choice to do so. Believe what you will, find your own answers. That ability was given to you and is yours to exercise, and I have no right to interfere.

Okay, the sermon?s over.
[quote name='The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic] Eh, i don't like that you say it's the absolute best way. It's really just an opinion, therefore it's not really absolute. It's relative. [/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Maybe so. However, you failed to produce any competing options, so I cannot agree with you, nor can I disagree. Give me something to work with. Or did you just object to my saying ?absolute?? If so, I will defend my statement to the death, for there are such things as absolutes.[/FONT]
[quote name='Chiyasha] Yeah, man can be a root of all evil. But, I was thinking about this as well and consider this: I think man created money to encourage fairness in trading (or other legal matters), therefore to [B]avoid stealing[/B'] (and other crimes). ? I came from a family where money is the number 1 basic need ?. I suppose what I learned from my dad has fixed my way of seeing money as a primary need. [/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Okay, here I?m going to refer you back to my first post. If man invented money to avoid stealing (and other crimes), then why are we still faced with the existence of stealing (and other crimes?

I come from a similar family, but we always kept it in perspective. Money is a method of payment for basic needs. If we didn?t have money, we found another (legal) way to get our needed items.[/FONT]
[quote name='Darktactic'] Whether money is evil in itself or not, it seems to me that all things requiring money are negative (money is in war, politics, corrupt people, etc.). Even if there are instances where money isn't necessarily negative, I can't think of any time when it has a positive effect.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Although this sounds stupid, what about household trash cans? What about when I buy clothing for a homeless man? What about when I donate money to help my town?s high school band buy instruments? Don?t be so pessimistic.[/FONT]
[quote name='The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic] God gave us free will, but without choice there can be no free will. So if there is only good in the world there can be no choice and no free will. So by giving us free will he also created a choice, that choice was the opposite of good - evil. So we were talking about how money is the root of evil blah blah and i thought of how i thought free will was the actual root of all evil. So there. ^L^[/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Oooh, dangerous statement there, buddy. Free will and choice go hand in hand. Without one, we lose the other. Also, as I stated above, free will is [I]not[/I] the root, it only presents the option. (BTW, why the ?So there?? There?s no need for anger here?.)

I am terribly sorry that this post goes on like this. I just felt all of these statements deserved to be looked at, and I tend to over-defend rather than not defend enough. This discussion is extremely stimulating, though. I hope it finds a satisfactory conclusion.[/FONT]