human cloning(Debate help.)

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

O.k. Say that, in the future, scientists create a way to clone human beings. Would you be for it or against it? What would your reasons for being for/against it be?

At this point I'm nutreal about cloning. I however need to be on one side of this bridge for Debate class and need help choosing.

[Sojiro47]

At one point in time, I would have said "hell yes" to this. But now...My answer is no clone. No offence to any clones out there. Here's one of my reasons. If we go around cloning people, we have a chance of insest. I mean let's say I die, but my clone's still around, and my sister has a clone. Well, assuming that neither myself or my sister tell the clone that they, we, us, are related, and they decide to have sex, those kid's will be messed up. That's just me.

You also have to see where your religion stands on this. If you're Christian, you have to be against it, because Man doesn't have the right to play God by creating life. Before you take a side, consult your local religion expert and see where you should stand.



[SIZE=1]How do you curcumsize a Redneck?[/SIZE]

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray]Debating over the clone issue in a classroom would be tough. It brings up the old science vs. moral/faith argument, which is a lose-lose situation to begin with. If you're just looking to pick a side, I say go with your instinct. When you think "human clones", do you think positive or negative? I know you said you're neutral, but just try it. [/color]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=Sojiro47]At one point in time, I would have said "hell yes" to this. But now...My answer is no clone. No offence to any clones out there. Here's one of my reasons. If we go around cloning people, we have a chance of insest. I mean let's say I die, but my clone's still around, and my sister has a clone. Well, assuming that neither myself or my sister tell the clone that they, we, us, are related, and they decide to have sex, those kid's will be messed up. That's just me.

You also have to see where your religion stands on this. If you're Christian, you have to be against it, because Man doesn't have the right to play God by creating life. Before you take a side, consult your local religion expert and see where you should stand.



[SIZE=1]How do you curcumsize a Redneck?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Ok that makes sense but the religion thing dosen't. If god doesn't want it to happen than he would stop it but he allows us to so what does that mean?(Both kittens and sheep have been successfully cloned.)

[eleanor]

[quote name='lostvoice']Ok that makes sense but the religion thing dosen't. If god doesn't want it to happen than he would stop it but he allows us to so what does that mean?(Both kittens and sheep have been successfully cloned.)[/quote]

[color=dimgray] This is what I'm talking about. This debate goes nowhere, and hypothetical questions like these don't belong in a true debate tournament/forum.[/color]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] This is what I'm talking about. This debate goes nowhere, and hypothetical questions like these don't belong in a true debate tournament/forum.[/color][/quote]

He's not a good teacher, ok? In fact if I knew he was the debate teacher I wouldn't have joined. If it helps the paper he gave us with the topics said: Should human cloning be banned? We're acually writing nine persuasiv e essays for this ****ing class. I'm way behind.

[eleanor]

[quote name='lostvoice']He's not a good teacher, ok? In fact if I knew he was the debate teacher I wouldn't have joined. If it helps the paper he gave us with the topics said: Should human cloning be banned? We're acually writing nine persuasiv e essays for this ****ing class. I'm way behind.[/quote]

[color=dimgray] If it's a paper, then you can stop worrying and pick a topic out of a hat. I was under the impression you would actually have a oral debate on this.

If you're neutral, then you don't care what side you get, right? [/color]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=Lunox][color=dimgray] If it's a paper, then you can stop worrying and pick a topic out of a hat. I was under the impression you would actually have a oral debate on this.

If you're neutral, then you don't care what side you get, right? [/color][/QUOTE]


Wow! Sorry if that was any trouble. I feel dumb! :animeshy: :animeswea

Anyway any supporting details for no? I need three. Most likley something easy to grasp.

[Retribution]

[size=1]It is essential to ask yourself what these clones will do or what they will be used for. If they're cloned to be slaves or a bag of replacement organs, certainly not. Personally, I'm not sure what use a human clone has aside from showing we can.

But the ability to clone only specific organs might be developed through our efforts in cloning, so I would say leave open a path science can explore for solutions in the real world.[/size]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]It is essential to ask yourself what these clones will do or what they will be used for. If they're cloned to be slaves or a bag of replacement organs, certainly not. Personally, I'm not sure what use a human clone has aside from showing we can.

But the ability to clone only specific organs might be developed through our efforts in cloning, so I would say leave open a path science can explore for solutions in the real world.[/size][/QUOTE]


no in betweens I'm afraid. I'm either for it all together or against it, for this paper.

[Retribution]

[quote name='lostvoice']no in betweens I'm afraid. I'm either for it all together or against it, for this paper.[/quote]
[size=1]An absolute position is foolish. The world is not black and white.[/size]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']An absolute position is foolish. The world is not black and white.[/size][/quote]

but this paper has to be.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='lostvoice']He's not a good teacher, ok? In fact if I knew he was the debate teacher I wouldn't have joined. If it helps the paper he gave us with the topics said: Should human cloning be banned? We're acually writing nine persuasiv e essays for this ****ing class. I'm way behind.[/quote]I see, so this is actually a paper and not a debate. I?m going to be a bit mean here and your following post here will explain why: [QUOTE=lostvoice]Wow! Sorry if that was any trouble. I feel dumb! :animeshy: :animeswea

Anyway any supporting details for no? I need three. Most likley something easy to grasp.[/QUOTE]The idea of writing a persuasive essay is for [I]you[/I] to present your own thoughts on the matter, not the ideas or supporting details of others. If we give you several valid reasons and the supporting details as well, then your paper is no longer your own. You yourself said that you are neutral so pick a side and then choose some reasons as to why. [quote name='lostvoice']no in betweens I'm afraid. I'm either for it all together or against it, for this paper.[/quote]Then make an in-between. Take points and argue that you can?t be all for it or against it. A stance that says if I had to choose I would be for or against and say why . If you lack the information to make these choices, then use the Internet to look up information on the pros and cons of human cloning. Don?t ask for a few points and details and then present it to the teacher. It will look sloppy and you will have learned next to nothing.

That?s all the advise I have to offer you since in all honesty this thread looks more like an attempt to get us to do your homework for you, instead of a discussion on human cloning. And before you get upset over what I have said, this is the very same advice I have given my own children when they were stumped on a homework assignment. And it would be the same if your assignment was for a debate and not a paper as well.

The time you have spent on this thread is time that could have already been used to look up the information and start choosing your points.

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Aaryanna_Mom]The idea of writing a persuasive essay is for [I]you[/I'] to present your own thoughts on the matter, not the ideas or supporting details of others. If we give you several valid reasons and the supporting details as well, then your paper is no longer your own.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]If I may add something to that statement ? [COLOR=DarkRed]lostvoice[/COLOR], you're really shooting yourself in both feet here. Not only is [COLOR=DarkRed]Aaryanna_Mom[/COLOR] right, but by not coming up with and thinking out your own arguments you lose the ability to defend them thoroughly. You'll honestly sound more impressive if you follow your own logic instead of bits and pieces and snatches of others' statements.

Also, look at this from the teacher's perspective. He may or may not care about what [I]your[/I] opinion and stance actually are ? he probably designed the assignment to measure how well you can defend a point of view. Whether or not you actually agree with that point of view is irrelevant. If you can defend it against multiple counterattacks, you're more likely to get a higher grade.

I'm not trying to be a snot, here, even though it might sound like it. I'm just telling you what I do when I get crap assignments like this one. I play the game. And every time I've been forced to 'play the game' I've come out on top. I hate it, but it gets me by, and right now that's what counts.[/FONT]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]Screw morals, I need a clone. Maybe for once someone can agree with me on something. And knowing myself we'd probably fall in love... I wonder if it's possible to make your clone the opposite gender...

Anywho, I see nothing wrong with cloning except that the world is already rediculously overpopulated as it is without clones everywhere.[/COLOR]

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I'm sorry, but without knowing the purpose of making these clones there's no way you can really choose a side. If these clones were made to replace loved ones or something like that, then maybe it'd be ok. If they were going to be grown for organ transplants and the sort, then it most likely wouldn't be ok.

If i were you i would tell your teacher just that. And also, tell him he's a moron if he still says that you have to choose a side without that information.

Yeah...that's all i got, especially since i'm distracted by the Simpsons...
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=Red][quote name='lostvoice]Ok that makes sense but the religion thing dosen't. If god doesn't want it to happen than he would stop it but he allows us to so what does that mean?(Both kittens and sheep have been successfully cloned.)[/QUOTE]Sure it does, I?m not religious myself, but there are a lot of things that supposedly God does not approve of, like sex outside of marriage, but it happens all the time. If you believe in religion it?s called free will. You?re allowed to make choices whether they are good or not. And that includes things like killing others or attempting to make clones of them. [QUOTE=lostvoice]He's not a good teacher, ok? In fact if I knew he was the debate teacher I wouldn't have joined. If it helps the paper he gave us with the topics said: Should human cloning be banned? We're acually writing nine persuasiv e essays for this ****ing class. I'm way behind.[/QUOTE]Actually he sounds like a fine teacher as it looks like he?s forcing you to think out of the box. You may not like his teaching methods, but the whole idea is to get you to dive into areas you normally wouldn?t even think about. [QUOTE=lostvoice']Anyway any supporting details for no? I need three. Most likley something easy to grasp.[/quote]I?m not even going to get into this as both my Mom and Allamorph covered it quite well. But I will add this, it?s obvious to me that on some level the teacher is trying to force you to think about a topic instead of just being neutral. Being neutral, isn?t bad, but it does leave you in the position of being lazy on the topic. You don?t have to have a stance since you aren?t for it or against it.

You don?t have to believe in a stance in that respect, but writing to defend a point of view just helps you to move past that. You can still feel neutral, but when you are done you?ll understand the point you defended a little bit better and accomplished what the teacher said at the same time. You will have learned something. Which is really the whole point of education in the first place, to learn about something that normally you wouldn?t even bother to read about. Because if you did, then you wouldn?t need the education right? [QUOTE=The13thMan][COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]I'm sorry, but without knowing the purpose of making these clones there's no way you can really choose a side. If these clones were made to replace loved ones or something like that, then maybe it'd be ok. If they were going to be grown for organ transplants and the sort, then it most likely wouldn't be ok.

If i were you i would tell your teacher just that. And also, tell him he's a moron if he still says that you have to choose a side without that information. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]You missed the whole point of the assignment. lostvoice is suppose to actually research it and come up with his own points, otherwise he?s simply defending what the teacher thinks is a possible point or reason for or against cloning. And that?s hardly going to teach lostvoice to go out and seek their own answers. The teacher is there to guide you not light every step of the process for you. The students are suppose to actually look into the subject and then take what they have learned and use that to either defend making clones or defend the position of being against it.

Considering how easy it is to find information online these days, it?s not that hard to do an assignment like this. Time consuming perhaps, but then isn't all homework like that?[/COLOR]

[Fasteriskhead]

First, keep in mind that this assignment sounds like it's less about trying to determine whether cloning would be a good thing or not, and more about whether you can pull off the time-honored debate task of taking a point (no matter whether it's right or wrong for the time being) and hammering the hell out of it. The WORST thing you can do with such an assignment is waffle. Imagine you're a lawyer (defense or prosecution) at a trial where "cloning" is the defendent. You are neither supposed to win at all costs, nor offer a totally comprehensive and fair report on the case. You are supposed to make the strongest arguments possible for your side, and that's all.

Possible pro points: medical purposes, such as harvesting new limbs and organs for injured patients; creating children for would-be parents who aren't fertile; (if gene alteration is also included) removal of undesirable genetic defects.

Possible con points: ethical dilemmas, especially involving questions of what a "human being" is; medical uses may involve unacceptable destruction of human life; issues regarding the impact on overpopulation; increasing homogenization of the population, putting it at risk for outbreaks of diseases that target particular kinds of people.

There's probably lots more, but that's all that comes to mind right now. Anyways, grab some points like these, blow them up with examples and descriptions, and try to make the best case you can for whatever side you choose.


EDIT: well, Aaryanna beat me to most of this. Ah, well.

[Mythologicly]

I would be for it cause there are good advantages to having a personal clone one being if you need a transplant who better to get it from that your self. Cause its happen to my grandma before she got a transplant but her body wouldn't except the new kiddney. If it would have came from her cloned body there would be noway for the body to reject a transplant.

Another is for replacment body parts incase someone loses a leg or something it wont be hard to get that body part back.

Those are my reasons for being for cloning.

[TheShinje]

[quote] [color=DarkOrange][font=Century Gothic]I'm sorry, but without knowing the purpose of making these clones there's no way you can really choose a side. If these clones were made to replace loved ones or something like that, then maybe it'd be ok. If they were going to be grown for organ transplants and the sort, then it most likely wouldn't be ok.[/quote]
[color=Black]There is no merit in that. People who want to clone to replace a loved one who died with a clone are fools, and they only kid themselves if they think they can bring them back. All they will be doing, is creating a genetic copy. That copy will still, however, become and live it's own life. A sure fire ticket to dissapointment.

Then, think about how you would feel if your parents turned around some day and told you you were actually a clone of their deceased firstborn that the couldn't bear to part with. How would you feel knowing that they tried to re-created their firstborn out of you, instead of just dealing with it and letting you, be you?

It's unfair to the child, to grow up in a role that is essentially placing him/her as a shallow replacement for a lost loved one.
[/color][/font][/color]

[Rachmaninoff]

Well putting aside the homework aspect, I?m both against and for cloning. I really don?t see the problem with using cloning to make organs people need for transplants. And by that I don?t mean grow a human, cut out what you need and toss the rest. I mean where only the one specific item is grown, like a heart.

I do see a problem with cloning the entire person. For one thing we are already heading towards overpopulation and allowing cloning especially if the other person is still alive would really upset that balance. I also think from a psychological standpoint it would undermine the uniqueness of the human soul. If such a thing exists that is.

And though I?m not too terribly religious myself, cloning would open up so many doors that would literally set people at each other?s throats as to whether or not it was moral to attempt to do what they think God did in the first place. Or what about countries raising clones to fight their battles for them? It just seems like it would end up being a total pain in the butt in the end.