Let's Abolish Profanity in Adventure Square/Reform thread

[Charles]

First of all, I expect opposition to this idea; I do not expect this suggestion to be very popular at all. I don't even expect this suggestion to be used. However, I think it makes a lot of sense to introduce this idea and get people thinking about it. In my opinion, we should eliminate vulgarity from Adventure Square. First of all, I think that vulgarity is just pretty needless in Adventure Square. Others, such as Alan, have pointed out how it seems like almost every single RPG is rated "M". I think this image he provided speaks volumes:

[CENTER][IMG]http://a6.vox.com/6a00c225232604f21900cdf7ea686e094f-pi[/IMG][/CENTER]


Although this image is outdated, all one needs to do is visit the forum and it's pretty much the same story.

Before vulgarity was allowed on the boards we saw awesome RPGs like Meteo City and Maverick Hunters flourish. Now, we have a forum littered with needless profanity--and I think that the allowance of profanity has contributed to the decline of quality in the forum. I do not blame profanity alone for the decline in quality and I do not think that reducing profanity will automatically improve things--but it will be a start.

There's no reason why a "Star Wars vs. Halo" RPG needs cussing or sex. There's no reason why a Digimon RPG should feature a "mature" warning. I think that members are abusing profanity and using it as a crutch instead of being truly creative. Quite frankly, I think that the content of Adventure Square clashes sharply with the rest of the site in a very bad way. Adventure Square comes off as "trashy" compared to the rest of the site.

If profanity was being used artistically and only when necessary, I do not think it would be a problem, but it has clearly overtaken the forum and offers absolutely nothing positive to most of the RPGs it is featured in. You could take out the profanity in 99.9 percent of those RPGs and they would read [i]better[/i] than they did with it.

If I had a child who visited this site, I definitely would not want them visiting Adventure Square due to its content (which ironically is frequently written by youngsters). OB Anthology isn't bad at all actually, but it would probably be best if we at least rebooted Adventure Square and required people to write creatively without using profanity as a crutch.

[Boo]

[size=1]Here comes the Boo, dooweedoowee.

As often as this has been said, I don't think the ratings make much sense anymore anyway. I'm not sure whether people create these Mature ratings because they want to look cool, or maybe to avoid people not joining because they can't cuss in the RP, or just because they want to avoid regretting their PG or E rating later on.

That aside, I must agree that people are a being way too fond of adding gore to their RPs, though there have always been quite a lot of RPs with gore in them. Now, some might not agree with Charles' remark that it used to be less and start talking about 'seniors being nostalgic again', but it might be time that we start paying attention to it then. The over all grammar quality has improved obviously since three years ago, but well... Sometimes that's all that has improved.

People, Pikachu can't even talk, let stand curse.[/size]

[Semjaza]

The first response I think quite a few people would have would be in the vein of "oh no, I'm being censored!!"... but I do think a lot of the issues there now are more than simple coincidence.

I never read a lot of RPGs to begin with, but I surely read far less now than I would have before. However, I think certain RPGs call for the problem in question in some regard. Kill Adam would have been lackluster without it, certain horror RPGs almost require it to even exist. At the same time, the examples you list (and more) almost make me feel like I've wandered into Super Happy Tree Friends or a non-witty South Park fan-fiction wormhole.

I wonder how successful actually splitting the forum between general and "adult" ratings could work out? I'd personally lean against it, but I suppose it is a topic for discussion.

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

Ummm, Wow never thought about that! I beleive that perhaps more RPG's should have lower rateings and too much cursing can turn something sour. Acually I don't really see a reason to allow sexual content on the Adventure boards. Although I do add it to my threads when I make one I usually only use it to crack jokes. Even those aren't that neccessaryand I don't use it often. Curseing? Senser it. Violence. Some threads involve lots of gore and blood. Take mine for example.(see list) It's a vampire RPG. Without gore it's bleak to make my thread. I joined here to get away from the too clean extremely unorganized Neopets RPG'ing. I wanted free'er type. If you get rid of to much than RPG'ing will become too.....Boring. Or so I think. I do however think that the creative part is right and that there should be limits.

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1]*Raises hand* Uh, in defence of my own RPG, I was actually going to make it a PG. It's a good job I didn't, though, as everything in the rating has, so far, been used. I know you don't mean all the RPGs up there, but still, I feel a tad paranoid about my game being on the list even if it's there just because it's on the first page >_>;;

I think the reason most people have an M rating is because they're scared of their RPG going over-board and getting closed. The only reason I think that is because up until awhile ago I was always afraid that I might add a bit too much violence and the game would be closed for an improper rating. That being said, perhaps some of these threads should be changed for an improper rating (and I'm not saying the Arena staff don't do their job, either, because they clearly do. It's awkward to read the content of every single RPG when it's been posted in to make sure it's in check, isn't it?).

But, you know, ratings came in not so long ago (I think), and I've gotten to actually [I]like[/I] ratings in a thread title. I don't think abolishing the ratings would make the Arena decline again, nor do I think the constant view of 'M' rated threads makes it look tidy, either. But, eh...[/SIZE]

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=Generic NPC #3]The first response I think quite a few people would have would be in the vein of "oh no, I'm being censored!!"... but I do think a lot of the issues there now are more than simple coincidence.

I never read a lot of RPGs to begin with, but I surely read far less now than I would have before. However, I think certain RPGs call for the problem in question in some regard. Kill Adam would have been lackluster without it, certain horror RPGs almost require it to even exist. At the same time, the examples you list (and more) almost make me feel like I've wandered into Super Happy Tree Friends or a non-witty South Park fan-fiction wormhole.

I wonder how successful actually splitting the forum between general and "adult" ratings could work out? I'd personally lean against it, but I suppose it is a topic for discussion.[/QUOTE]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I think a lot of people would just post in adult, if that was the case. We need to make it so expletive filled RPs, are an exception, not the rule. I think if you modded them harsly - like, I'm talking an interview to justify language and sexual content - you could still manage to have them. This might make people inundate mods with "I wanna say **** and ****!!!" requests, though, so it's hard. I agree some threads do manage to pull it off (like Kill Adam, or Torment [though that never got off the ground]), but otherwise the Arena's use of 'mature' concepts is a joke, and a new standard has to be set.[/font][/color][/size]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=Vicky][SIZE=1]
I think the reason most people have an M rating is because they're scared of their RPG going over-board and getting closed. The only reason I think that is because up until awhile ago I was always afraid that I might add a bit too much violence and the game would be closed for an improper rating. That being said, perhaps some of these threads should be changed for an improper rating (and I'm not saying the Arena staff don't do their job, either, because they clearly do. It's awkward to read the content of every single RPG when it's been posted in to make sure it's in check, isn't it?).

SIZE][/QUOTE]


I kind of agree with her. That's true, too. I think though that there (again) should be limits. just have a mod post that curseing must be censored and that Sexual content isn't allowed unless they get permission in the beginning of the thread. It would lower requests to use profane language since it would be stared out and how many threads acually have sex in them.

[Shy]

[size=1]Kill 'em all.

Being the creator of Thread Ratings, I have to acknowledge that they once served a very important purpose. With Kill Adam and the various rip-offs, writers were pushing adult content into their stories and RPGs like never before. We had expected that these ratings were going hand-in-hand with a new level of sophistication and maturity in the forums, but that day never came.

Years later The Arena has become a joke; a place where not even established members can launch a successful [PG] or [E] RPG. Everything has to be [M-LSV,] although actually reading most of the crap proves that it is anything but mature. I agree with Charles that this expectation for [M] RPGs ultimately hurts the forum. Simply removing thread ratings isn't going to be enough, though.

Tastes have changed on the boards, and our method for organizing creative writing feels outdated. The Anthology forum and Underground are basically dead, and The Square seems to become decreasingly active as time goes on.

In the olden days we combined all of these things into a 'Games and Stories Forum.' Currently game threads have proven to be incredibly popular, and it would be irresponsible to continue letting them clog up General Discussion. I propose closing The current Arena and Anthology, replacing it two new forums (minus Thread Ratings, of course...)
[indent][b]Arena Games and Stories:[/b] RPGs, Games and creative writing will go here. Old threads will be archived in 'Classic OB,' although currently active threads can be moved to the new forum. It will have an active moderating staff and a swear filter to help enforce the rules. Adult content can still be presented in the forum, only it must be done [i]tastefully[/i].

Sign-up threads for games and RPGs can be placed in a new Adventure Inn.

[b]Arena Discussion:[/b] Underground threads and creative writing discussion can hand-in-hand with broader literary threads from Anthology. Old Anthology threads will be archived.[/indent]
Only by starting over can we really hope to change anything. I'm not proposing killing off RPGs as a whole, I simply think we need to reevaluate what we want from these forums. Currently The Arena is an eyesore to the entire boards. Poor implementation of the original rules have degenerated the forum into the mess that it is. This is not meant to slight the current moderating staff, I just think our expectations and standards in these forums need to change along with the rules.

A new Arena G&S can be a fun, welcoming place to meet new members and participate in games and stories - just like The Arena was supposed to be.

-Shy[/size]

[Charles]

Yeah, completely rebooting with Games and Stories is something we've been discussing that I think would be the ideal solution here. I think that every forum goes through its phase and we need to keep up with the times by recognizing that role-playing games have kind of given way to the popularity of games. OB Anthology obviously doesn't cut it on its own, so streamlining everything and acknowledging the increased popularity of games on the site would help bolster the entire area.

Make it happen!

Shy and I are old so we know what's best.

[John]

Just censor it for an undisclosed amount of time. Get people used to the idea of making creative RPGs without fallbacks, and then reintroduce it when you think they can handle it.

[Aberinkula]

[QUOTE=Shy][size=1]Kill 'em all.

Being the creator of Thread Ratings, I have to acknowledge that they once served a very important purpose. With Kill Adam and the various rip-offs, writers were pushing adult content into their stories and RPGs like never before. We had expected that these ratings were going hand-in-hand with a new level of sophistication and maturity in the forums, but that day never came.

Years later The Arena has become a joke; a place where not even established members can launch a successful [PG] or [E] RPG. Everything has to be [M-LSV] although actually reading most of the crap proves that its' anything but mature. I agree with Charles that this expectation for [M] RPGs ultimately hurts the forum. Simply removing thread ratings isn't going to be enough, though.

Tastes have changed on the boards, and our method for organizing creative writing feels outdated. The Anthology forum and Underground are basically dead, and The Square seems to become decreasingly active as time goes on.

In the olden days we combined all of these things into a 'Games and Stories Forum.' Currently game threads have proven to be incredibly popular, and it would be irresponsible to continue letting them clog in General Discussion. I propose closing The current Arena and Anthology, replacing it two new forums (minus Thread Ratings, of course...)
[indent][b]Arena Games and Stories:[/b] RPGs, Games and creative writing will go here. Old threads will be archived in 'Classic OB,' although currently active threads can be moved to the new forum. It will have an active moderating staff and a swear filter to help enforce the rules. Adult content can still be presented in the forum, only it must be done [i]tastefully[/i].

Sign-up threads for games and RPGs can be placed in a new Adventure Inn.

[b]Arena Discussion:[/b] Underground threads and creative writing discussion can hand-in-hand with broader literary threads from Anthology. Old Anthology threads will be archived.[/indent]
Only by starting over can we really hope to change anything. I'm not proposing killing off RPGs as a whole, I simply think we need to reevaluate what we want from these forums. Currently The Arena is an eyesore to the entire boards. Poor implementation of the original rules have degenerated the forum into the mess that it is. This is not meant to slight the current moderating staff, I just think our expectations and standards in these forums need to change along with the rules.

A new Arena G&S can be a fun, welcoming place to meet new members and participate in games and stories - just like The Arena was supposed to be.

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DimGray]I myself, just made a new [/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]RPG[/COLOR].[COLOR=dimgray] It took me about an hour and a half to make. May not seem long but that's the longest I've ever taken to make one. And I'm proud of myself.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=DimGray]As for the subjesct.[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=Blue]Shy's[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=DimGray]idea is a good one. One question though. Will these subjects be in subforums? Aside from that the drop of ratings is a good idea. Because hardly andybody cares what the rating is. They just read it or join it.[/COLOR]

[Shy]

[quote name='ForgotteÑ-HerÖ][COLOR=DimGray]As for the subjesct.[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=Blue]Shy's[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=DimGray']idea is a good one. One question though. Will these subjects be in subforums?[/COLOR][/quote]
[size=1]Nope. There would only be two forums: Games and Stories and Arena Discussion, and one sub-forum: Adventure Inn.

[color=blue][b]-Shy[/color][/b][/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE=ForgotteÑ-HerÖ][COLOR=DimGray]I myself, just made a new [/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]RPG[/COLOR].[COLOR=dimgray] It took me about an hour and a half to make. May not seem long but that's the longest I've ever taken to make one. And I'm proud of myself.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=DimGray]As for the subjesct.[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=Blue]Shy's[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=DimGray]idea is a good one. One question though. Will these subjects be in subforums? Aside from that the drop of ratings is a good idea. Because hardly andybody cares what the rating is. They just read it or join it.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo][font=arial][size=1]It'd all be in the same forum. You'd have the different threads marked though, so at the start you'd have tags like [Poetry], or [Game], or [RP]. Maybe roll the signups back into the actual playthreads too, for RPs, to keep things clean.[/font][/size][/color]

[Charles]

I was talking with Alan and he introduced the idea of just indicating what each thread is by tagging it with [Game], [Story], etc.

*edit: as he just said above me.

I also think that people can put in special requests for M-rated RPGs to the staff before they create an RPG. They would make a "pitch" telling the staff of the area why their writing needs to be "M" rated and they could decide whether to allow it or not.

We'll also have to make sure that the word "game" doesn't become a euphemism for "spam." Overall, I think that this redesign is much-needed and will promote creativity.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=Charles]
I also think that people can put in special requests for M-rated RPGs to the staff before they create an RPG. They would make a "pitch" telling the staff of the area why their writing needs to be "M" rated and they could decide whether to allow it or not. [/QUOTE]
Just to be clear--would the specially requested "M" rating also allow for profanity, or are you suggesting automatically censoring profanity and using that rating for RPGs with a lot of violence or sexual content?

[quote name='John']Just censor it for an undisclosed amount of time. Get people used to the idea of making creative RPGs without fallbacks, and then reintroduce it when you think they can handle it.[/quote]
I have trouble imagining this being effective. Not to be nonsensical, but the RPG/writing forums were censored before they were uncensored. Even if there were improvements during a new period of censorship, I can't help but feel that they would vanish once the filter was taken off. Also, members who joined after the censorship was removed again wouldn't have that experience to learn from.

~Dagger~

[Aberinkula]

[COLOR=DimGray]I love the idea all-together. I've noticed if someone has an interesting story sometime's nobody reads it. So putting them together woul increase the number of replies. If this makes out perfectly, I see the Arena's popularity[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]skyrocket.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]Maybe some people just put the [M-VLS] ratings just to attract people. Since not many people say[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]'huraa'[/COLOR] [COLOR=DimGray]to [E] or [PG] rated threads.[/COLOR]

[Charles]

[quote name='Dagger']Just to be clear--would the specially requested "M" rating also allow for profanity, or are you suggesting automatically censoring profanity and using that rating for RPGs with a lot of violence or sexual content?~Dagger~[/quote]

We could do two things here:

1) Reimplement the swear filter and allow people to request an "M" rating for graphic violence or sex scenes.

Or

2) Keep the swear filter turned off and require people to get permission before including it and other "adult" material.

I think that the first option would probably be more effective and easy to moderate.

[QUOTE=ForgotteÑ-HerÖ][COLOR=DimGray]I love the idea all-together. I've noticed if someone has an interesting story sometime's nobody reads it. So putting them together woul increase the number of replies. If this makes out perfectly, I see the Arena's popularity[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]skyrocket.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]Maybe some people just put the [M-VLS] ratings just to attract people. Since not many people say[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]'huraa'[/COLOR] [COLOR=DimGray]to [E] or [PG] rated threads.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yep. Also keep in mind that once the profanity is eased up, people who have been avoiding the forum because of its offensive nature might be interested in visiting it. I've always preferred the theme of "fun" and inclusiveness over senseless profanity.

[Shy]

[QUOTE=Charles]I was talking with Alan and he introduced the idea of just indicating what each thread is by tagging it with [Game], [Story], etc.

*edit: as he just said above me.

I also think that people can put in special requests for M-rated RPGs to the staff before they create an RPG. They would make a "pitch" telling the staff of the area why their writing needs to be "M" rated and they could decide whether to allow it or not.[/QUOTE]
[size=1]James has discussed 'hardwiring' Thread Ratings into threads in The Arena, meaning that you couldn't post a thread without first attaching a Thread Rating to it (much in the way you can attach a smiley icon to a thread's title.) Instead of forcing members to attach Thread Ratings, we can simply force them to attach an icon indicating what type of thread it is (Game, Story, RPG, etc.)

As for the 'M' Rating Tribunal,' or whatever it is... I don't agree with that idea neccessarily. There are tasteful ways to tell quality stories about vampires, assassins and sex that don't involve being graphic.

We're not trying to limit the kinds of stories people are able to tell, we just want them to be more mature in the way they handle certain subject matter. Putting the swear filter back on those forums would be one of the easiest and most effective ways to do that.

-Shy[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]I don?t have a problem with removing profanity from the Adventure Square, because in the end I think the rating system is on the confusing side. At least for me that is. Some of this is due to my age. I remember when the push for the PG-13 rating was done due to how movies were having more and more elements that before you only saw in a rated R movie. I believe one of the biggest examples cited at the time was the movie Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

So though for the most part the RPG I started is more of a PG-13 rating, it will have a few moments in it that based on what I grew up with, would be considered rated R for the violence and sexual content, even if it?s only a small part of the overall story. The swearing is something that is more of an occasional thing and not the norm in how the story flows. But in the end, the rating fits what I consider a more mature movie, today?s standards seem out of whack to me as if the shows and stories are relying more on the gore, violence, sex and language to draw in an audience instead of a story line that only has the occasional swearing, violence, sex and language. Which at that point are used to emphasize a point and not just needless profanity and such.

So if it seems the rating I gave the RPG I started is excessive, well I just want people to understand that from my prospective, it makes perfect sense.

In the end I really don?t have a problem with removing profanity or in being more strict on more mature ratings, I do have one concern and it has to do with what Shy has said here: [quote name='Shy][size=1] It will have an active moderating staff and a swear filter to help enforce the rules. Adult content can still be presented in the forum, only it must be done [i]tastefully[/i'].[/size][/quote]People?s ideas as to what they will consider tasteful is going to be very hard to define. Again I?m going on what I grew up here, as things that many of the teenagers and kids I know think are normal, I consider to be trashy and not worth watching. The same goes for reading as well. I guess I worry where the line will be drawn in terms of what?s considered acceptable or what?s considered tasteful. Because in my opinion that line is going to differ depending upon who you talk to.
[/COLOR]

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

*Just censor it for an undisclosed amount of time. Get people used to the idea of making creative RPGs without fallbacks, and then reintroduce it when you think they can handle it.*( Wanted to quote it but I screwed up)

If a dog can't be off a leash without wandering and causing trouble than don't let it off a leash.

I mean to say keep it censored and don't let the filter off. It will dimalish the cursing problem for sure. Even new comers will get the drift and requests for M rated RPG's would be fine with a good reason as to why. I think it would be a change for the better.

Honestly I probably shouldn't say much. I haven't been a member for as long as most of everyone else here i'm sure. I'm not sure what it was like before even just last summer but it sounds like many poeple enjoyed it more in the past than now.

[John]

[quote name='Dagger']I have trouble imagining this being effective. Not to be nonsensical, but the RPG/writing forums were censored before they were uncensored. Even if there were improvements during a new period of censorship, I can't help but feel that they would vanish once the filter was taken off. Also, members who joined after the censorship was removed again wouldn't have that experience to learn from. [/quote] If people change their entire style of writing and creative thinking, it's not going to disappear in a puff of smoke when the restraints come off [img]http://otakuboards.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Perhaps much later (if no subsequent quality requirements are enforced) people will slack off, but that's unavoidable and will happen no matter what the situation.

Any new member creating an RPG will probably (should I just say definitely?) take strong influence from everything else they see around the forum, and imitate their style. So that's not a problem.

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=John]If people change their entire style of writing and creative thinking, it's not going to disappear in a puff of smoke when the restraints come off [img]http://otakuboards.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Perhaps much later (if no subsequent quality requirements are enforced) people will slack off, but that's unavoidable and will happen no matter what the situation.

Any new member creating an RPG will probably (should I just say definitely?) take strong influence from everything else they see around the forum, and imitate their style. So that's not a problem.[/QUOTE]

If you can't control your dog keep it leashed.

Have the filter perminant for reassurance. (Yes and I do repeat myself alot.)

[John]

[QUOTE=lostvoice]If you can't control your dog keep it leashed.

Have the filter perminant for reassurance. (Yes and I do repeat myself alot.)[/QUOTE] It's ok, I missed your last post.

Keeping the filter on forever and unconditionally like you're saying wouldn't maximize the benefit for anybody. Eventually, it gets safe enough that it's worth the risk to take it off.

[Cicatrice Du Adieu]

[QUOTE=John]It's ok, I missed your last post.

Keeping the filter on forever and unconditionally like you're saying wouldn't maximize the benefit for anybody. Eventually, it gets safe enough that it's worth the risk to take it off.[/QUOTE]

But you stated that if it improves that newcomers who come will be influenced. That wasn't so for me. I worked off the sticky and prior knowledge of Rp'ing. Like I said I came here for more writing freedom. I wasn't influenced by anyone. I just found what I liked and did it. How are you sure that most newcomers won't be like me.

[Doublehex]

Personally, I think the ratings need to be revamped. The M threads seem to be more along the lines of something I'd see in a T rated videogame. The reason for this is probably because the only thing below it is PG, and that is something that is not even close to being for teens. PG and G is for kids, whereas M is teen and adult. Since most of the RPers and writers write for teen and adult audiences, thats what they go for.

If you really want to change things, start with the rating. Replace PG with T or PG-13. You'll definatley see a decrease in M rated threads.