Death and the Heartless

[DaSilva]

I've felt a certain way for a while and I just wanted to know what you guys think of my opinion on death.

Whenever someone I know has a friend or family member that dies, I couldn't care less. Sure I feel sorry for my friend, but I didn't know the person who died. Why should I care? Thousands (or millions, I dunno) of people die every day that I don't know, and I don't care. Why should this case be any different? My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?

[kalon]

If you aren't caring about your friends, I think it's heartless. If someone dies, and you don't know them, it's normal to not really feel any loss. You can't lose what you never had. But if you have a friend who is upset over the death, and you're not caring about that friend, then to me, that [i]is[/i] heartless. And even then, it's normal to not feel "loss," but I would hope that as humans we all have some universal sympathy that lets us care when someone is hurting.

For instance, my English teacher's father died not too long ago, and many of his students went to visit him (our teacher) at the funeral. It wasn't that we even knew the deceased, but that we cared about our teacher, and could sympathize or empathize with the loss of a loved one. So I didn't feel too broken up about the man having died, but I felt sad because Mr. Walker was having a hard time.

But [b]DaSilva[/b], you might just want to keep quiet about not caring when a friend's loved one dies. It's plain rude to say, "I like you and all, but I really don't care if your grandma's dead."

[Cat]

I wouldn't say your being heartless at all. Your friend is going though a hard time and is draging you down with them because you aren't at the same level as them at that moment. Its not your friends fault for doing this either. They see it as some nasty joke has been played on them and you don't care as much as they want you too or thought you would.

If it was me that had a friend that loss someone. I would look at it the same way you do, DaSilva. Many people die every day and if you feel sympathy for all of them you'll never feel happy again. That in its self I feel would be even worse then not caring about your friends dead loved one.

[Aaryanna_Mom]

[quote name='DaSilva']I've felt a certain way for a while and I just wanted to know what you guys think of my opinion on death.

Whenever someone I know has a friend or family member that dies, I couldn't care less. Sure I feel sorry for my friend, but I didn't know the person who died. Why should I care? Thousands (or millions, I dunno) of people die every day that I don't know, and I don't care. Why should this case be any different? My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?[/quote]You're not suppose to care about the person who died, especially since it's usually someone you don't know. What you [I]are[/I] supposed to care about is your friend who is affected by the loss.

You've missed the whole point in even feeling sorry about the situation in the first place. If you really feel nothing or could care less that your friends lost someone they love, then they are correct you are heartless.

Realistically it's not possible to really care for someone you don't know dying. It[I] is[/I] realistic to feel bad for your friend and to offer them your condolences for [I]their[/I] loss. Telling them you couldn't care less or why should you care just shows how much you don't care for [I]them[/I], not the person who died.

[Guest rubyslasher]

It's good that you feel bad for your friend. Cause I mean, if you weren't sympathetic, some friend you'd be. Anyhow, what everyone else has said, it's perfectly normal to not feel anything for someone dying. Lots of people die, yeah. And as mentioned earlier, it's completely impolite to tell the person "they died, but I pretty much feel nothing about that. Sorry."
A good way to avoid fake and questionable grieving on your part is to relate with your friend, like be all "ooh... I felt bad when I lost my grandpa. I can't even imagine how you feel right now, but I recall feeling pretty bad myself. And I'll be there for you through this." or something.

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Aaryanna_Mom]You're not suppose to care about the person who died, especially since it's usually someone you don't know. What you [I]are[/I] supposed to care about is your friend who is affected by the loss.

You've missed the whole point in even feeling sorry about the situation in the first place. If you really feel nothing or could care less that your friends lost someone they love, then they are correct you are heartless.

Realistically it's not possible to really care for someone you don't know dying. It[I] is[/I] realistic to feel bad for your friend and to offer them your condolences for [I]their[/I] loss. Telling them you couldn't care less or why should you care just shows how much you don't care for [I]them[/I], not the person who died.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Nothing more I can really add to this, A_M has really summed it up to a tee. If the grandmother or God-forbid parent or sibling of a friend of mine died, while I'm mightn't be in mourning for that person, I would sure as hell tell my friend I was sorry for his/her loss and be there for him/her.

Would you expect your own friends to be equally cold if you lost someone you cared about DaSilva ?[/SIZE]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed][quote name='DaSilva']Sure I feel sorry for my friend, but I didn't know the person who died. Why should I care? Thousands (or millions, I dunno) of people die every day that I don't know, and I don't care. Why should this case be any different? My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?[/quote]How hard is it to simply say I'm sorry you lost your friend, and nothing else? No one expects you to mourn someone you don't know, but to say you could care less that they are dead, just shows a lack of tact and compassion towards your friend. The person who actually is upset and hurt over their death.

Is it really that hard to keep your mouth shut? There's absolutely no need to say "I don't know them so why should I care?" It changes nothing and only makes you look like in insensitive jackass. When you said it yourself that you actually do feel sorry for your friend.

You?re confusing being realistic with being tactful. You are realistic in that it isn?t necessary to care, but your method of making a point of telling them is not only stupid but also unnecessary. And more importantly why do you feel the need to even make that point? If you really do feel sorry for your friend, why cause them even more pain? [/COLOR]

[Hanabishi Recca]

[quote name='DaSilva'] My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?[/quote]

When my grandfather died, I didn't really feel bad in any way. I didn't know him that well. Though one of my brothers was crying, because he knew him more and was older and knowing what the whole thing was about (That it was going to be the last time we see him and such).

When my grandmother died, my Father let us know, he was crying and feeling sad. But, I didn't really feel bad. There was nothing that was really sad about it. If one of my family members die, I might feel bad about it, because I know them more than I knew my Grandfather/Grandmother.

Now if one of my friends died, I wouldn't feel bad. I have no reason to.
So, you know that if one of my friend's - friend die I wouldn't feel bad for them. It wouldn't mean much for me to know that someone died that I knew, nor if I didn't know them. I wouldn't feel bad for them, because I would expect the exact same response from them If I was feeling bad that someone died. I don't think they would care (Even though I would probably care less).

Dae

[ziopheth]

[quote name='DaSilva']I've felt a certain way for a while and I just wanted to know what you guys think of my opinion on death.

Whenever someone I know has a friend or family member that dies, I couldn't care less. Sure I feel sorry for my friend, but I didn't know the person who died. Why should I care? Thousands (or millions, I dunno) of people die every day that I don't know, and I don't care. Why should this case be any different? My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?[/quote]

To me, life is simply flesh dieing day by day... It doesn't effect me, either...

[Rachmaninoff]

Your friends are correct you are heartless. Not because you don?t care, how could you? And as you said it?s unrealistic to care for people you don?t know who died.

But to coldly tell your friend, ?I don?t care that they are dead.? Only shows that you don?t care that they are hurt by their friend?s death. It?s not necessary to tell them you don?t care about the person who died because they already know that. They are looking for you to comfort them, not be sad that the person is dead.

I?m amazed that you even feel that it?s necessary to point out that you don?t care. Or why you feel you have to. Unless you really don?t care about your friend being hurt either.

[John]

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']I?m amazed that you even feel that it?s necessary to point out that you don?t care. Or why you feel you have to. Unless you really don?t care about your friend being hurt either.[/quote] But flippant indifference and lack of social aptitude are all the rage! D:

[Boo]

[size=1]First for everyone:[/size][quote name='DaSilva']... Sure I feel sorry for my friend ...[/quote][size=1]Now that that's taken care of...[/size]
[QUOTE=indifference][COLOR=DarkRed]... but to say you could care less that they are dead, just shows a lack of tact and compassion towards your friend. The person who actually is upset and hurt over their death.

... There's absolutely no need to say "I don't know them so why should I care?" ...

You?re confusing being realistic with being tactful. You are realistic in that it isn?t necessary to care, but your method of making a point of telling them is not only stupid but also unnecessary. ...[/COLOR][/QUOTE][size=1]Don't put words in his [strike]mouth[/strike] post. He never said that he said anything in the direction of "I don't care that your mother died". He only said that his friends thought he was heartless if he doesn't feel bad about the person that died. This could have been said to him during a regular conversation for all we know. I can understand if the guy would?ve first discussed this same subject with his friends, before asking people who he doesn't know.

So don?t act all bitchy and stop attacking the lad over things he has never said. If DaSilva has the tiniest bit of subtlety in his brain, your whole post is useless and makes you look like a complete hypersensitive fool.[/size]
[quote name='DaSilva']... My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. ...[/quote][size=1]"Being realistic" is a very relative statement and I strongly discourage anyone from using it. "Being realistic" is obviously different from your friends? point of view.[/size]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkRed][QUOTE=Boo][size=1]Don't put words in his [strike]mouth[/strike] post. He never said that he said anything in the direction of "I don't care that your mother died". He only said that his friends thought he was heartless if he doesn't feel bad about the person that died. This could've been said to him during a regular conversation for all we know. I can understand if the guy would?ve first discussed this same subject with his friends, before asking people who he doesn't know.

So don?t act all bitchy and stop attacking the lad over things he has never said. If DaSilva has the tiniest bit of subtlety in his brain, your whole post is useless and makes you look like a complete hypersensitive fool.[/size]
[/QUOTE]Uh, Boo, before you put your foot into your mouth even further...[quote name='DaSilva']My friends see it as me acting heartless, but I see it as being realistic. What do you guys think?[/quote]That part means they have said something or else their friends wouldn't be telling them that they are heartless. :animesigh

It's a pretty safe assumption to think that they did indeed say something along the lines of "I don't care your mother died." as that's exactly what I thought when I read their post. I did not get the impression that this was a general conversation but rather one of an actual recent event of them dealing with a friend who has lost someone recently.

And if someone in a casual conversation were to tell me that they didn't care someone I knew died, it wouldn't have the same impact that it would if someone I knew had died recently. It would just be a conversation about how it's hard to feel anything for someone you don't really know.

So if you want to clear that up DaSilva, by all means do. Is this just a general conversation, or one that happened when one of your friends was currently mourning? That makes all the difference in the world as to how it might be taken as far as being heartless goes.[/COLOR]

[Boo]

[quote name='Aaryanna][color=DarkRed']Uh, Boo, before you put your foot into your mouth even further...[/color][/quote][size=1]Where does your quote help at all to explain myself putting my foot in my mouth? Your quote just proves what my last post was about, as it's the part that people are so freely interpreting.[/size]
[quote name='Boo][size=1']He only said that his friends thought he was heartless if he doesn't feel bad about the person that died.[/size][/quote][size=1]And well...[/size]
[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkRed']It's a pretty safe assumption to think that they did indeed say something along the lines of "I don't care your mother died." as that's exactly what I thought when I read their post. I did not get the impression that this was a general conversation but rather one of an actual recent event of them dealing with a friend who has lost someone recently.[/color][/quote][size=1]I don't know about you, but I have more friends than the select few that have lost people that are very close to them. I'd find it good for myself to know what others think of me not caring whether someone who I don't know died. If a friend of mine just told me their grandmother died, and I wouldn't care, I could just go to an other friend to discuss wether that's normal. A reaction of 'that's heartless' is a possibility.[/size]
[quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkRed']So if you want to clear that up DaSilva, by all means do.[/COLOR][/quote][size=1]Here we agree.[/size]

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Before we turn this into a pointless spat over people putting words into other people?s mouths and calling other?s bitchy?I?m more than willing to admit I may have misunderstood your intent with your opening post DaSilva as I got the impression that your friends were giving you a hard time because you have said something along the lines of ?I could care less that your friend died.? When they have just lost someone they care for.

So as Aaryanna said: [quote name='Aaryanna][COLOR=DarkRed']So if you want to clear that up DaSilva, by all means do. Is this just a general conversation, or one that happened when one of your friends was currently mourning? That makes all the difference in the world as to how it might be taken as far as being heartless goes.[/COLOR][/quote]Please do clear that up because if you did say something like that then you are heartless, but if it was just a simple conversation or rather observation, then I take it back since I agree. I feel bad when people I know lose someone they love, but I don?t share the feelings of loss that they do as I never knew the person in question.[/COLOR]

[Aaryanna]

[COLOR=DarkRed][quote name='Boo][size=1']Where does your quote help at all to explain myself putting my foot in my mouth? Your quote just proves what my last post was about, as it's the part that people are so freely interpreting.[/size][/quote]My point was that people were interpreting what DaSilva meant differently, myself included and your response was along the same lines of misinterpreting things in that you assumed indifference was being bitchy when her response was based on what [I]she thought[/I] DaSaliva meant.

You got on her case about being bitchy when you were also being bitchy toward her on what [I]you thought[/I] she was misinterpreting in regards to what [I]you thought[/I] DaSaliva meant.

Which is why I asked for DaSilva to clarify what they meant as they are the only one here who really knows what happened, whether it was an observasion or they were being called heartless for actually saying to their friends face. "I could care less that your friend died." Which if they are currently mourning, I think is rather heartless and cruel to say.[quote name='Boo][size=1']If a friend of mine just told me their grandmother died, and I wouldn't care, I could just go to an other friend to discuss wether that's normal. A reaction of 'that's heartless' is a possibility.[/size][/quote]True and at that point your moving into person opinion as everyone is going to think differently on that. I personally don?t care a lot of someone I don?t know dies. But I do at least notice it more if the person who dies is at least known to my friend. I may not be sad, but I do care that it affects my friend. Whether or not I care about the unknown person is kind of irrelevant in my opinion since condolences are usually meant to help the person who is still alive.[/COLOR]

[DaSilva]

[QUOTE][B]Kalon:[/B] ?But DaSilva, you might just want to keep quiet about not caring when a friend's loved one dies. It's plain rude to say, "I like you and all, but I really don't care if your grandma's dead."?[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Courier New][B]To Kalon:[/B] That?s not the case at all. I was just discussing the matter with my friends one day and they called me heartless. I wouldn?t broadcast it like that. Now that [I]is[/I] cold.[/FONT]

[QUOTE][B]Gavin:[/B] ?Would you expect your own friends to be equally cold if you lost someone you cared about DaSilva ??[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Courier New]
[B]To Gavin:[/B] I have a big history of loss, and whenever it happens I don?t even talk to my friends about it. They didn?t know the person, so I shouldn?t drag them down with me just because I?m feeling blue. However, when they do eventually find out, I want them to treat me equally ?cold? as you put it.[/FONT]

[QUOTE][B]Rachmaninoff:[/B]?Your friends are correct you are heartless. Not because you don?t care, how could you? And as you said it?s unrealistic to care for people you don?t know who died. But to coldly tell your friend, ?I don?t care that they are dead.? Only shows that you don?t care that they are hurt by their friend?s death. It?s not necessary to tell them you don?t care about the person who died because they already know that. They are looking for you to comfort them, not be sad that the person is dead.?[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Courier New]
[B]To Rachmaninoff:[/B] That is not the case at all. I didn?t say that, I wouldn?t. Sure I?d think it, but I wouldn?t say it to someone?s face.

[B]To Boo:[/B] Merci. You hit the nail right on the head.
[B]
The General Public:[/B] That would be a general conversation. None of this has happened recently. Just events over time have caused me to question the way I reason. I apologize for not being clear at the beginning of my post.[/FONT]

[Rachmaninoff]

[QUOTE=DaSilva][FONT=Courier New]
[B]To Rachmaninoff:[/B] That is not the case at all. I didn?t say that, I wouldn?t. Sure I?d think it, but I wouldn?t say it to someone?s face.
[B]
The General Public:[/B] That would be a general conversation. None of this has happened recently. Just events over time have caused me to question the way I reason. I apologize for not being clear at the beginning of my post.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I'm glad you cleared that up, because Crystia was not the only one guilty of thinking you were being rude. She was more vocal about it but I was thinking the very same thing.

And for that I'm sorry, I have seen many people say thoughtless things along the lines of I don't care that so and so died or you need to quit being such a baby and move on. So my first thought was that you had done that without bothering to ask. My mistake.

I too agree that expecting others to care about someone you don't even know has died is unrealistic. And I think you shouldn't. When you care that someone dies, it's because they had a personal connection to you one that is different from a stranger. Yes you can feel sad that someone you don't know died, but I don't think it's the same at all. And far from being heartless, rather a case of you never had the chance to get to know them to form those attachments that would make you care.

[Adahn]

[size=2]Oh, I love nothing more than taking a shot in the dark.[/size]

[size=2]DS, you were talking to your friends about whoever died, and that the person's death itself didn't really bother you, because you didn't know them. They got on your case about it, saying you were heartless. You didn't feel as if you'd done something wrong, so you defended your position to the point that what you were talking about was twisted.[/size]

[size=2]You are not wrong in feeling little for the person who died, and you are right in feeling bad for your friend.[/size]

[size=2]Whether this happened recently or not, it is not appropriate to discuss these sentiments with your friends.[/size]

[size=2]In bringing this up, you have made a mistake, not a heartless one, but a stupid one. Own up to it and apologize for speaking inappropriately. This will allow you to stop defending your position, however right it may be, and start smoothing over the ruffles you've created with your (either thoughtless or too thoughtful) comments.[/size]

[size=2]I, personally, hate the thought that I have done something wrong, and have a huge difficulty admitting my mistakes. It's a character flaw I have, and one that you may share with me. I defend myself when I should apologize, even if I feel in the core of my being that I am absolutely correct. It's the hardest thing to do, and usually the best thing one can do in a situation like this.[/size]

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=DaSilva][FONT=Courier New][B]To Gavin:[/B] I have a big history of loss, and whenever it happens I don?t even talk to my friends about it. They didn?t know the person, so I shouldn?t drag them down with me just because I?m feeling blue. However, when they do eventually find out, I want them to treat me equally ?cold? as you put it.

[B]The General Public:[/B] That would be a general conversation. None of this has happened recently. Just events over time have caused me to question the way I reason. I apologize for not being clear at the beginning of my post.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]That's fair enough, I took up what you had said wrong. I've lost plenty of relations too, and while I don't go talking to my friends about it, they usually offer their sympathies and support. However if you don't want your friends to, then that's different and I'm sorry if I seemed harsh.

Like most other people I thought your friend's relative had died recently and I formed my response from there. [/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]if a friend of mine were to have lost a loved one, no, I wouldn't care. I'd merely allow them space to work things out, or comfort them if it is their wish. That is perfectly normal, I would think.[/COLOR]

[Haibara]

Truthfully I am the same way. When there is a tragedy I become unemotional and realistic. The way I see it is people come and go in life. Once a person leaves my life, whether they died or live far away, it is like they were never there. Life goes on no matter what.

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]In a way, I can see how people were getting the wrong impression over this topic, but then I?ve lost several close family members in my life and I have had those rude people who just have to tell you they could care less and that you need to quit being a baby and move on.

But it?s not that simple, especially when it?s someone you really cared about. In time that pain does get better but at first it?s so horribly painful that for a while you think about them all the time.

However, that doesn?t mean I don?t understand what you are saying here DaSilva and I do agree. It?s hard to feel loss over someone you don?t know and honestly I think it?s rather silly to expect others to feel that way over someone they don?t know.

I do think that part of the problem here is semantics, saying you couldn?t care less or why should I care sounds heartless even if that?s not your intent. So I think the manner in which you were saying you don?t feel upset when someone you don?t know dies came across as abrasive and insensitive.

I don?t know if you used those exact words or not, but if you did perhaps explaining to your friends that you do care when they are upset would help. And the next time the discussion is brought up, simply try to be a little more tactful in how you address the question, instead of harsh statements that sound abrasive simply explain I don?t feel any sense of loss when the person who died is someone I don?t know.

It conveys the same meaning and doesn?t sound as harsh. I?m sure you care when you lose someone so another way to put it would be: it?s a pity I didn?t know them well enough to really miss them. Even if you had no intention of getting to know the person since both statements clearly explain you are not affected but sound much nicer and more diplomatic than the statements: I could care less or Why should I care? [/COLOR]

[fire_fly52]

i think what they called you heartless for is you voice your oppion like that in their time of need. they were just looking for someone to be sad with.

[Retribution]

[quote name='fire_fly52']i think what they called you heartless for is you voice your oppion like that in their time of need. they were just looking for someone to be sad with.[/quote]
[size=1]Precisely. It's always tactless to come off as apathetic in someone's time of need. Really, all you need to do is be there for the person because that's all they're looking for.

"lol idc" is the worst message you can send someone in their time of need. Next time, instead of being kind of distant, at least [i]act[/i] sad, nod a lot, frown, and say "Wow, sorry to hear that."[/size]