Vice or Virtue

[Rachmaninoff]

This is a thought that?s been running through my head lately, one that can be blamed on one of my classes at school. Basically I?ve been thinking about the [B]Seven Deadly Sins[/B]:

[CENTER][B]Lust[/B] [excessive sexual appetites]
[B]Gluttony[/B] [over-indulgence] ~ [B]Greed [/B][avarice]
[B]Sloth[/B] [idleness] ~ [B]Wrath[/B] [anger]
[B]Envy[/B] [jealousy] ~ [B]Pride[/B] [vanity][/CENTER]

And the [B]Seven Holy Virtues[/B]:

[CENTER][B]Chastity [/B][purity of soul]
[B]Temperance[/B] [self-restraint] ~ [B]Humility[/B] [humbleness]
[B]Charity[/B] [giving] ~ [B]Diligence[/B] [zeal/integrity]
[B]Forgiveness [/B][composure] ~ [B]Kindness [/B][admiration][/CENTER]

And how either one of them could be considered excessive. I was required to write up a paper and be extremely blunt about each area and how it relates to myself and to how I felt the different aspects helped to balance the other.

For example take Lust, I?m sure many of you can relate to seeing a fine looking member of the opposite sex and on some level having what could be considered impure thoughts. Though that?s purely subjective. But in my paper I explained how yes I am attracted to beautiful women and that on some level it was normal since it was balanced by what I would consider the Temperance [self-restraint] side of myself. The side of myself that doesn?t seek dates with women only for personal gratification though I?m not claiming I?m a saint in that respect, only that I don?t sleep around at any opportunity.

Another one and this is hard for me; I get envious when a girl I like is dating someone else. And yet I try to counter it with forgiveness or rather composure. Not that the girl needs to apologize, but rather that I need to let go and forgive myself for feeling selfish instead of thinking that the feeling is acceptable. When the person in question has every right to see whom they please.

So in the end I like to think that for the most part the aspects of myself that could be considered sinful is kept in check by the part that could be considered selfless. Though I'm sure there are some that are excessive and either I don't see it or I am fairly well balanced. [I'm not holding my breath though] How about the rest of you?

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Well I haven?t really thought about comparing vices I have to virtues I think I have or how they might compensate for one another. But looking at the list briefly, the one thing that does stand out as one I?ve had to deal with would be Wrath. Ever since my brother was killed, that sort of thing really angers me quite easily. It?s gotten better, but sometimes it surprises me at how deep my anger can run towards others who kill innocents. All it took was the recent shooting event here in Salt Lake City for me to realize that I've still got a long ways to go on not letting things like that upset me as much as they do.

I?ve always thought that I was forgiving, but it?s been a struggle to really understand that forgiveness isn?t so much as forgiving the person but rather the act and letting go of the feelings of anger since they do you more harm than the person who hurt someone else. But it doesn't change the fact that part of me feels like forgiveness should only come after the person responsible for harming someone else has been dealt with. Not very charitable I suppose. But then you did say you were expected to be blunt for the paper right? So I guess it's only fair if I'm as equally as blunt here.

Other than that, I couldn?t really say. I?d have to actually think about the other ones to see how they relate to me and if I think the opposite virtue in some way balances it out.[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[size=1]I never really understood why pride was a sin, or why chastity was a virtue.

In any event, I think I'm mostly an envious and vain person. I don't see it as a problem though, because those sentiments don't really rule my behavior to the point of negativity. And everyone is very restrained and composed. It's a social status-quo we tacitly uphold.[/size]

[TheResplendent]

[FONT=Tahoma]When comparing the sins and the virtues, while it's ideal to have a proper balance between them (as both are near impossible to be completely devoid of at some point in life), one will always be stronger than the other. It may seem like there's a balance, but the only reason it may seem that way is because of circumstance, or variables out of our control. An opposing virtue to a vice, will always either be strong enough to counter the vice, or too weak to do so and only succeed to an extent. The whole battle is one fought mostly within the mind, as part of the battle to know onesself and to accept the truth and limitations of yourself.

I personally am afflicted by 2 of the deadly sins above all other ones. One being [b]lust[/b] and the other being [b]pride[/b].

I will be the first person to admit that I am easily attracted to a member of the opposite sex that fulfills my personal tastes. Whether this can succesfully be counteracted by [b]Temperance[/b] depends on the situation however. This is also what I talk about when I say circumstance. It appears to be an even balance on the outside because quite obviously, I'm not a rapist and I don't go up to every hot girl I see and grope the hell out of them and try to screw em. It's a mix between self-restraint and respecting the boundries between situations that allow for such actions (and no, i don't mean rape, i mean consentual sexual activity or touching), and do not allow it. I will not act on primal desires if it is a girl I do not know what so ever, and especially not if they are with somebody else (out of respect).

However, if given the go ahead, or if involved with this person in some way whether it be boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, friends with benefits, flirting, etc etc...as long as it is consentual I will pretty much indulge myself. When in this state, it seems as if my lust is more than apparent. My self-restraint goes out the window unless something happens to stop us or if she needs to stop for some reason.

In this case, self-restraint really only plays half a part on the side of knowing when not to give in to lust. Where as my lust plays every part in satisfying those desires when able to. It's more about knowing the boundries and being respectful. In this case i'd say my lust is stronger because when able and allowed, temperance tends to fight a losing war. Take note though that this doesn't mean i'm horny every hour of every day, the only time I tried to uphold a relationship based off of sex with hardly any compatibility in any other category was so mentally anguishing I thought I came out of it with a significant loss of brain cells. It cannot be done, and make you completely happy at the same time. It's that simple. I always prefer to know who it is i'm trying to start a relationship with before I even consider sex. A type of relationship built off of just sex is known as a ****-buddy or a booty-call, another situation where lust can bloom to it's heart's content.

So it has it's place even with no collar on, but it isn't because of restraint, it is the absence of desire at that time or a desire for things not sexually related. It's as I already said, sex should be the last thing to try and build a real relationship on top of, maybe only next to hatred.

As for [b]Pride[/b], it's probably my most obvious social negative. One i've significantly improved on in the last couple of years however, but one that will probably never be gone for good. I can tend to be very arrogant about my abilities, my intellegence, my talents...whatever they may be. I have a lot of pride in myself, and what I can do. Most people are lucky enough to be able to express this with simple confidence, but it seems as if I must take it one more step ahead in order to make it known. Why? I don't know...it seems almost out of my control most of the time. What is not out of my control however is my capacity for [b]humility[/b].

I can easily recognize when someone is better at me at something, or when someone is legitimately intellegent, or when someone deserves praise for how well they are at their respective trade or knack. If I make claims implying otherwise, it is most likely because I am friends with that person, or on good terms with that person, and am doing so in a joking fashion and obviously do not mean to degrade. It is exceptionally hard to impress me in categories I am strong in myself though, as it's just as easy to feign proficiency. When proof of actual efficacy is shown though, the respect I hold for that person is incredibly strong.

My pride is really only significant in matters of competition though, or in a situation where I aim to prove something. And note that competition doesn't only mean sports and such, it can be anything in which you are doing it in order to prove your the best, or exceedingly good at it. I can recognize my faults, I can recognize my strengths, and I've no reason to lie about any of them. That I believe contributes as much to humility as my ability to praise others when it's due.

I tend to enjoy a more peaceful and humble atmosphere more often nowadays though. I've noticed that my pride really doesn't hurt me as much as I always think it does, though I still call it my greatest social negative.

As for the virtues in themselves, I feel that I contain each of them in proper proportion and rather enjoy it at times. The only one that is a bit of a pain in the *** to uphold is [b]forgiveness[/b], as i've been put in many situations in my life that required MY forgiveness, even when I didn't want to give it or knew I was not required to give it. Other then that, I feel the 2 strongest virtues within me are [b]Diligence[/b] and [b]Kindness[/b]. Mostly because the sins that oppose those virtues are near non-existent within me. I didn't say completely non-existent...just near >.> . But aside from that I find them both essential to the way I want to live my life.

Anyway, I do consider myself lucky to have it the way I do as far as my personality type goes. Nobody is without their negatives, while mine are strong in their respective categories, I find that they don't really hinder me as badly in terms of being able to be sociable and keep my friends. Friends bein as important to me as they are, I am quite greatful. [/FONT]

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]I never really understood why pride was a sin, or why chastity was a virtue.
[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] By 'pride' they most likely mean arrogance, and chastity was pretty much demanded from women during the time of Jesus.

I'm guilty of all of the sins, although most of them I keep to myself and try not to show. The only prominent one that people I know see is probably sloth. It's not a major problem, I just prosrastinate on most everything. It's balanced with diligence, though, because when I start something I work hard on it. (i.e. I put off studying for my calc test until the night before, but when I actually begin, I'll re-do and study every problem we ever did in that specific chapter multiple times no matter how long it takes.)

I actually think pride is the worst sin of all. It's such a marring quality for anyone to have; the people I dislike the most are arrogant and condescending.

I used to have a huge problem with being too self-centered and egocentric, but I've learned to quell that. I view humility as one of the most valuable virtues; the willingness to learn and be grounded in who you are is the greatest groundwork for hard work and success. So yeah, having both humility and diligence is the best combination in my book. [/color]

[Johnny Justjohnny]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=Gray][B]"I'm very well aquainted with the seven deadly sins
I keep a busy schedule trying to fit them in
I'm proud to be a glutton, and I don't have time for sloth
I'm greedy, and I'm angry, and I don't care who I cross."[/B]

Excluding the angry part, Warren Zevon pretty well captures me in Mr. Bad Example... I'm a glutton, I'm quite proud of that fact, I'm lazyer then a three-toed sloth, and I don't care what anyone thinks about it. I'm not especially greedy, but I'm like Homer Simpsons - helping people? For free? What's the deal? I'm just generally not very charitable.

The song fails to mention lust - well, that takes a back seat to gluttony and sloth, but that's right up there, although that probably has more to do with being a giant nerdlanger with virtually no shot of ever having a girl-friend then anything else.

There's no real balance to me. I don't work hard to make up for my sloth, I usually give up as soon as something becomes frustrating, and would much rather sit around doing nothing then doing busywork. I indulge a lot, and I don't control what I indulge in - I can't get enough of deicious food, so I eat a lot of it, it's that simple with me, there is no self restraint.

I guess on the virtue side of things, I don't really hold a grudge at all, so I guess that adds points in the forgiveness and kindness columns, and I'm not an angry person at all... so it's not all sin-and-sun with me, but that's certainly the way I like living. Also, I don't think I can ever recall being really enyous - I have dialup amongst a sea of highspeeders, but don't really hate them for it, most of my friends have Wii's or PS3's or whatever, but I don't get on their case about it... I'm just generally happy with my lot in life, I guess. [/COLOR][/SIZE]