Advice Requested (relationship issues)

[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]Alright. I'm fairly certain you guys would be bored with this sort of thing, but I'm going to put it out there for the sake of hopefully getting advice.

Alright, there's this girl (there always is) who I shall call Sue. There's this guy (how cliche) who I will call Andy. Ok. Andy and I have been friends for over a year and a half. I heard at the beginning of the year that he kind of liked Sue. I was cool with it, since I hadn't the foggiest idea who she was. He and a friend (Bob) hung out with Sue and her friends throughout the year. Around the time I got back from Christmas, I started casually hanging out with a group of people that she hung out with. I noticed that she's something of an artist. I'm something of an art critic. I casually critiqued some of her pictures, and I realized that I was beginning to like her. I told myself that we would only be friends, because Andy likes her. I couldn't do that to a friend. So I still hung out with her and we got along great.

Here's the thing. After a couple weeks of telling myself no, I gave in and told myself yes. I thought that Andy had gotten over his crush and I was going to make a move. Then I noticed that he kept hanging around her, almost like her was guarding her or something. Sue got all confused, because she thought that Andy was leading her on, but she needed some kind of sign. I could see that he was going to make his move, and I dreaded the day. The day happened to fall on Valentine's Day. Andy sent Sue a rose. She went head-over-heels. She asked all of her close friends (about 5, including me) if she should go talk to him, because he was showing signs, but wasn't doing anything. All of her friends said "GO FOR IT." I told her the opposite, but I seem to be ridiculously persuasive, especially where dating is concerned (but mostly because they have nothing in common). Regardless, she gave him many obvious hints. Incredibly obvious hints. He didn't catch on to any of them.

Nothing has happened between the two of them. Andy knows that I'm out for himself, and treats me accordingly, though he's still nice towards me in private company. In public, he's semi-hostile towards me, which is a suicidal move at best. Sue and I are still good friends, and I think she may like me. I'm not sure about her feelings for Andy, but spring break is in a couple of weeks, and I'm fairly certain that she'll totally lose interest in him in that time. Most of the people I've talked to have pondered why she likes him. My friend Evan basically told me that he doesn't deserve her, since he's basically wasted the opportunity. My ex-girlfriend, who is a flaming lesbian (she was that way before, and don't ask) and an adamant supporter of Andy+Sue is also starting to question him.

This is the point where I start asking questions. What should I do? Do I betray a friend, or let him keep trying? Friends of females? Any advice as to how to go about it (if you think I should continue)? In general, is this situation screwed up, or what? Basically, anything is good. Any reaction or advice or similar experience is welcome. Thanks.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[TheResplendent]

[FONT=Tahoma]The worst thing you can do is make a decision based off of limited knowledge, when you HAVE the capability to expand it. Talk to your friend and make it very clear that you want to know if he intends on taking his relationship with Sue, and if not if he would care if you tried. See what his response is.

If he says he wants to keep it up, let him have some time. Maybe a month, use your judgement based on how many times they hang out and how many opportunities she seems to give him. If he just shows no signs what so ever of moving on, then try it for yourself and if your friend can't understand the effects of waiting too long when his friend is being patient then perhaps it's best he learns the hard way. If you really want to avoid losing him as a friend over this though, then you have to decide which one is worth prioritizing. A good friend, or this girl. I think the answer is obvious due to many reasons (which i've probably mentioned on multiple occaisions in past threads) but everyone has their own preferences, so do what's right for you.

If he says he isn't sure he wants to pursue her anymore in that way, then his indecision will cost him just as badly. The point is, you want to make sure if you make a move on her, you have a logical reason for doing so. By logical I mean a decision that everyone must adhere to in order for everything to make sense, including your friend. Unless he gives you some kind of special case or special request...like "I need 4 months and 23 days to gather my chi so i can focus it into my date asking cortex" (obvious sarcastic example, meant to convey a concept) then it's up to you if you deem him a worthy enough friend to honor it.

So ask yourself:

-Would this be worth possibly losing a friend over?
-If my friend being logical about this?
-Is SHE worth going through this extensive deliberation for?

You can make judgement calls after you've cleared up what the situation is really like from his POV.[/FONT]

[Retribution]

[size=1]Let him keep trying if you're confident she has no feelings for him. Does Andy know you dissuaded Sue from liking him? If not, just be the neutral party so that he can't really harbor animosity towards you when Sue goes for you. If so, well, you've already screwed that friendship up and you've got nothing to lose.[/size]

[Whiteblaze]

[FONT=Arial]If I were in your shoes, I'd be real-talk with Andy and tell him if he is interested in Sue then he'd better act like it or I'm going to make a move. Something around there.

Not trying to offend, but if you are Sue's close friend then there should be some kind of communication between the two of you. The two of you should have some idea of how you feel about each other. Not, "I think, I think", but "I know".[/FONT]

[The13thMan]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]If you and Andy are still friends, talk to him. Tell him that since you knew he liked her for a long while that you'll give him a bit more time, and be specific with how long but not harsh. Then if he doesn't do anything, jump on it man.

If you two are no longer friends, then go for it and eff Andy.


[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Andrew]

[SIZE=1]At the end of the day (It's night by the way), the decision is out of your hands. You can play it cool and let him try but if Sue wants to choose you or him (or either of you for that matter), there's little you can do about it. I suppose she'd be more inclined to choose you if you gave her the signs that you like her and what not.

Personally, in my own girl chasing experiences, even my closest friends will actively persue girls I like and generally out in the open with no concern for my well-being. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there (I really hate that saying ¬_¬) and from what you've been saying he has had a fair length of time at trying to snag her.

I say go for it, albeit subtly. He doesn't need to know about your advances and, as Retribution said, if he doesn't know about it and she chooses you, there's little grounds he can attack you on.

And you did say she was an artist. I've haven't met many female artists in my time (let alone good ones) so that's a plus for you.[/SIZE]

[Rachmaninoff]

If I?m understanding you correctly, your friend has let you know that he likes her well over a year ago and yet even after all that and sending her a rose he has yet to actually make a move? Unless you are dead set on keeping your relationship with the other guy, then by all means find out what she thinks of you and make your move.

You say that spring break is coming up and that you think by then she will have lost interest. You can either give your friend a heads up that you intend to talk to her once spring break is over, or you can just wait and actually talk to her after spring break.

The deciding factor is similar to what BKstyles already mentioned. Is this worth losing your friendship over or rather is the friendship with your friend worth keeping? And is the girl in question worth it?

Decide which one is more important, current friendship or the girl and go from there. Because if he really is a good friend, I'd definitely talk to him first. If not, he's had more than enough time to make a move.

[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]This is good adivce, and its helpful, but if I talk to him, it will obviously alert him and spur him to action. In such a scenario, I probably lose a friend, and definately the girl. So, talking to him is out of the picture. He and I were loosely associated before, and he's been increasingly hostile (and annoying). He only ever talks to me when he wants to have me add on to one of his inane jokes. Somehow though, she new sees either of the two traits.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Andrew]

[SIZE=1]In that case I'd say there's no doubt about it. Work that Farto magic on her when he isn't around and go for it! And if he is annoying you this much then it shouldn't really matter if he finds out, but for the sake of peace until you get the girl.[/SIZE]

[Retribution]

[size=1]How is the guy's personality? If he's as annoying as you say he is to everyone, then you [i]want[/i] him and Sue to spend more time together. Odds are she'll see how much of a prick he is, and will be repulsed. That tactic never fails for me.

But you have to be sure she's not going to like him. If you don't want to take that gamble and instead want to hop into the action now (I personally think you should wait, but if you have an itchy trigger finger...) then you [b]really[/b] need to talk to this other fellow. Tell him the following things.

- You still want to be his friend, and he's a really cool guy. Stress this.
- You like the same girl as him.

He'll invariably ask what you want to do, and be upfront about your motives. Tell him that if he doesn't get his **** together, you're moving in because like it or not, he has zero ownership of or entitlement to Sue. Depending on how mature he is and how you phrase it, you could either murder your friendship or strike understanding.

For the love of god, don't talk to him. Just sit back, be nice to her, and let him have his chance. If you can be sure he'll make a fool of himself and she won't like him enough to consider him romantically, then let it go for now. Once he has his chance and messes it up, he has no right to be mad.[/size]

[AzureWolf]

[COLOR=maroon]I've been in this situation (going through a similar one right now, in fact, although I'm only involved indirectly). At this point in time, you won't be able to get both: you get the girl, you lose your friend. You keep your friend, but in order to do so, you'll have to forget the girl.

There's an old saying, "Bros before hoes." The reasoning is that girls will come and go (minus "the one" that is special to you), but your friends, thick or thin, will always stick around with you (well, unless you tried to date them, haha).

The only way to get both is to wait your friend's crush out, and if it never runs out, then you won't be able to get her without losing him. Things might patch up between you two, but it'll always be different.

Look at the worst scenario and go from there. Think about everything carefully and see if [B]a girl[/b] is worth your friend since she isn't [b]the girl[/b] (i.e., assuming worse-case scenario).[/COLOR]

[Harry]

You need to teach your friend a lesson. The "you snooze you lose" lesson.

[The13thMan]

[quote name='Farto the Magic][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]This is good adivce, and its helpful, but if I talk to him, it will obviously alert him and spur him to action. In such a scenario, I probably lose a friend, and definately the girl. So, talking to him is out of the picture. He and I were loosely associated before, and he's been increasingly hostile (and annoying). He only ever talks to me when he wants to have me add on to one of his inane jokes. Somehow though, she new sees either of the two traits.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]
[COLOR=DarkOrange][FONT=Century Gothic]Dude, go for it.

And uh... i wish you the best of luck . =D
[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Funny Girl]

[COLOR=Magenta]Well, I think that if your willing to lose a friend that isn't very nice or at all the least bit annoying then go for it. If your too scared or maybe shy or whatever that he might come and beat you up for taking his girl then you should just say, "You had your chance and lost it."

There are some things that you just have to know when it comes to girls. I'm a girl for one thing and not being able to notice any hints that I like the guy or anythinng means that he's a total loser and doesn't deserve anything from me. That's probably how she feel now and I don't think that having him as her bo is a the last thing that she wants.

I've had this same problem and it drove me mad that I had to talk to my friend and say, "I really like this guy and if you don't make you move soon then I'll take my chance."

Evidentally, he didn't like her and then I asked him and he choose me.

So what I'm saying is, take a chance and don't be afraid. It's your life and if "Andy" isn't happy about it then he must be in really bad shape.[/COLOR]

[Farto the Magic]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen]Just so everyone's caught up. Nothing has happened. They're sitting in a relationship purgatory, where nothing gets accomplished. Its draining both of them and all of their friends. All of their friends are attempting to persuade them otherwise, but none have succeeded. (My arguement was so convincing, people who hadn't even heard it agreed.) Both see through rose-tinted glasses. I'm mentally and emotionally drained. My frustration knows no bounds. No one thinks it'll work between them. Some even suspect that she knows deep-down that it won't work, but is hellbent on dating him nonetheless. He's still moving at a glacial pace and she still sees him for what he's not.

I'm at the end of my rope. The only option I can think of is to push them together and hope for failure. Any other options anyone can think of?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Farto the Magic][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=DarkGreen] I'm at the end of my rope. The only option I can think of is to push them together and hope for failure. Any other options anyone can think of?[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]
[size=1]No one said this was going to be fast or fun.

I would recommend not pushing them together, and just playing the nice guy to Sue. Be there for her, listen to her frustrations, sympathize, hang out whenever you have time. Just in general aim to be a good friend. Odds are, when these two break up (it will be eventually if it's as crazy as you say it is) she'll look to the next man in line, ideally you.

Don't appear to be jealous or frustrated. Don't appear ambitions or manipulating for your personal gain. Those will only repel her.[/size]