A decline in humanity?

[desertphoenix]

A lot of people say today aint what it used to be. When it seems like more conflict is rising, more people are starving, and nobody is caring. Do you think humanity is still trying to preserve itself? People in general do a lot of harm to the environment, and partly because they don?t care. I mean, have you ever seen trash on the ground only feet away from a trashcan? Are we looking generations into the future or are we trying to only look for what makes us happy now?

I wrote this piece in hate for humanity for reasons I still can?t figure out. I know the world isn?t perfect and that you shouldn?t just focus on the negative things. There are a lot of acts of kindness such as shelters for the homeless and organizations feeding the starving in other countries. I still wonder what percent of the money owned by the top wealthy would make a huge difference if given to help the poor.

I guess most people say they try to live a moral and honest life. I still think humanity might basically kill itself off. Will it be by war or careless care of the earth? Or will we come to peace? I think peace is possible since in the past we addressed and tried to end things such as inequality and slavery, so I guess it would just take time. As far as wars, have we lost are will to forgive? Not to be walked over or disrespected, but i mean to immediately resolve conflicts. Why can?t every conflict be settled peacefully? And I don?t just mean the war.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]It's been like this for millennia. Except now we have TV. If anything, humanities gotten better. Do you see slavery? Do you see widespread accepted pedophilia? We've got rid of all these things in the last hundred years or so.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Kei]

[color=darkblue][size=1]Alan makes a fairly valid point there. Also with regards to the environment, word is starting to spread more about global warming and its effects, so people are starting to become worried. With a bit more pressure, the United States should start actively trying to start doing things to combat it (like maybe actually signing the friggin' Kyoto Protocol like most of the rest of the world already has).

Yes, it is true that there is still room for improvement in the world, but the fact is that the world will never be perfect. The only thing we can do is stay informed of what's going on and try our best not to make things worse, really.[/color][/size]

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='DeadSeraphim][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]It's been like this for millennia. Except now we have TV. If anything, humanities gotten better. Do you see slavery? Do you see widespread accepted pedophilia? We've got rid of all these things in the last hundred years or so.[/FONT][/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]

Alan is correct. People have pretty much always sucked.

[Cat]

humanity still has away to go. I feel that slowly we are learning but it not fast enough. If you want to get into really we haven't got rid of slavery. For example there are still sweat shops in New York City and the United States has other such shops around the world. These sweat shops have mostly children working in them as well, being payed around 30 cents or less per day.

The United States are after money. The only thing is United States is just creating bigger debt. The third biggest lender to the United States is Mexico!! We are taken money from Mexico to support our country in certain areas of the budget. The United States tried to keep them out with a wall idea but we will take money from when they should be the ones using the money.

As for the Global Warming issue the United States isn't going to do anything for a while. In fact they cut back I think it was half a billion on the environment to put into the war in Iraq. About Every 3 seconds the United States is spending about 10,000 dollars on the Iraq war. That is alot of money that could be put into education, environment, and Aid to other countries.

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][quote name='Cat14']humanity still has away to go. I feel that slowly we are learning but it not fast enough. If you want to get into really we haven't got rid of slavery. For example there are still sweat shops in New York City and the United States has other such shops around the world. These sweat shops have mostly children working in them as well, being payed around 30 cents or less per day.[/quote]
That's ********. Are they OWNED by their employer? Of course not. They have options, and they can be replaced as quickly as they leave. There's another issue of child labour there in some cases, but that's less an issue of slavery and more a byproduct of capitalism. Even in sweatshops, people have options, and in most places of the world, if their options are removed, their is some semblance of law and justice to protect them and save them. Granted, the third world has a way to go in almost all departments, but even they're progressing in **** like this, albeit slowly (it's hard to abolish the concept of sweat shops in countries so poor even 30c is a fortune).[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Cat]

The employer does own these people in away though. If a company can own water that falls from the sky (which has been done) whats to stop them from own other humans in a different way. Most people can't leave a job for they need the little money they get. However the company can take away all health care, if the people wanted to create a Union they will threaten them by saying we will take away your jobs if you do. Some companies have been know to hire assassins to kill labor union leaders. Isn't that not a type of slavery where you can't do anything that the company controls all the strings and can take away your hope. Its either do what they want or have your children starve. Wal-mart makes its employs stay and do over time (3 or more hours) and not pay them at all. What would you choose? I know that I would give up my rights and freedom to a company if it means keeping my family from starving.

[DeadSeraphim]

[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]No, that's the reality of being employed in a capitalist society. Slavery is implicit owning of another person as property, and furthermore demoting them to subhuman in the eyes of the law. Don't get the concepts mixed up with philosophical posturing.[/font][/color][/size]

[TheResplendent]

[quote name='Cat14']For example there are still sweat shops in New York City[/quote]

[font=tahoma]That's really not as abundant as you think it is, trust me.

In any case, in response to the initial post...it is true that the negatives aren't the only thing we should focus on. There's a lot of great things that people as individuals can be capable of, it's people as a group that tend to get on my nerves. Ultimatley, humanity is far from lordable now, and has always been. It's unfortunate to think in such a way where we have to try harder to find our virtues then our faults, but far too much has happened for us to completely ignore that humans are quite the ****** breed.

It makes finding happiness and something to live for all the more special though when you can manage to find something in the midst of all that has been going on in the world.

People always have choices though, something leads to another and it's our responsibility to have the foresight to tell how things will turn out in the long run when it concerns the path of our own lives. There are a lot of variables and events out of our control, of course...but 8 times out of 10, if people want to point fingers at the potential source for their misery, all they need to do is look in the mirror. There's a lot of killing, racism, just tons of things in this world that will remain constant as much as we'd like to believe that it will not. All of it is by consequence of a poor choice somewhere down the line though, so as much as people may be willing to help, it seems they are just as caught up in providing the need for help.[/font]

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Kei']With a bit more pressure, the United States should start actively trying to start doing things to combat it (like maybe actually signing the friggin' Kyoto Protocol like most of the rest of the world already has).[/quote]The good news is that George W. Bush recently made concessions to the effect that actually, maybe there is something to this Global Warming malarkey after all, and that maybe the USA has a responsibility to do something about it.

The bad news is that he reckons he'll solve the problem with [url=http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1999968,00.html][u]giant space mirrors[/u][/url]. :animesigh

[eleanor]

[color=dimgray] Every generation of every time period thought that their successors were going to further pull down the morals of their society. Except... it never really happened. Humanity never 'died', morals and ethics just evolved. I wouldn't worry too much.[/color]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Shinmaru']Alan is correct. People have pretty much always sucked.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]I'd tend to agree with that statement Mike, the fact as Alan pointed out is that humanity has become a lot closer in the last few decades than it ever was before. We've gotten worse ? The last major war involving Western powers has not lead to the deaths of fifty million people and the use of nuclear weapons as the case sixty-five years ago.

As for the environment, I'd love to send a few eco-warriors back to England in the Industrial Revolution and just watch their reactions as the damage occurring there. [/SIZE]

[desertphoenix]

[quote name='desertphoenix'] I think peace is possible since in the past we addressed and tried to end things such as inequality and slavery, so I guess it would just take time.[/quote]
Sorry, badly worded that sentence. Kind of meant tried to end inequality and actually ended slavery. Though I wouldn't exactly count sweat shops as slavery but exploiting people through loops holes. Still an inhuman crime though.

[QUOTE=Gavin][SIZE=1]We've gotten worse ?
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
That question is what I was wondering. I'm not really sure if good out weighs the bad or the other way around. Too many good points on both sides to get a clear answer.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]This reminds my of [url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=f2wsuRTagJg][B][COLOR=DarkOrange]Bad Religion's Punk Rock Song[/COLOR][/B][/url]. (click that)

I agree with the guys on the 'it's always been ****** up' beach, and I'd like to throw in a 'it will always be ****** up, get used to it.' And I apologize for my language, but those are the absolute best words I can use to describe the view in my eyes. I'm a pessimistic idealist -- I do think there's a way that the world could be at peace but I know it will never happen, and I'm glad some day I get to die and forget about all this bull.[/COLOR]

[Dodeca]

[SIZE=1]I think I'll go with; humanity's gotten better, if only marginally.

Let's not forget the days of old, when invading armies would sweep through towns and villages, sparing neither civilian nor soldier. When the phrase 'all's fair in love and war' was taken a little too literally - a bit o' rape here, bit o' pillage there... oh, look, that guy we set on fire's [i]still[/i] running around screaming. When armies would cut down anyone who stood in their way for the belief that God wanted them to. Good times.

Oh, and then the times where anyone showing any sign of, or believing in something that couldn't be explained by the knowledge of the time would be marked a heretic or a witch and killed pretty much on the spot.

Then the times when full-scale slavery was all the rage. When nobody gave a damn about racism, sexism, or any of that bad stuff. When a group could be blamed for a nation's troubles and murdered en masse.

Sure, we have our problems, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the world was any more 'humane' in the past.[/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[QUOTE=Dodeca][SIZE=1]I think I'll go with; humanity's gotten better, if only marginally.

Let's not forget the days of old, when invading armies would sweep through towns and villages, sparing neither civilian nor soldier. When the phrase 'all's fair in love and war' was taken a little too literally - a bit o' rape here, bit o' pillage there... oh, look, that guy we set on fire's [i]still[/i] running around screaming. When armies would cut down anyone who stood in their way for the belief that God wanted them to. Good times.

Oh, and then the times where anyone showing any sign of, or believing in something that couldn't be explained by the knowledge of the time would be marked a heretic or a witch and killed pretty much on the spot.

Then the times when full-scale slavery was all the rage. When nobody gave a damn about racism, sexism, or any of that bad stuff. When a group could be blamed for a nation's troubles and murdered en masse.

Sure, we have our problems, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the world was any more 'humane' in the past.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict][COLOR=DarkOrange]Where[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide] [COLOR=DarkOrange]the[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war] [COLOR=DarkOrange]hell[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history] [COLOR=DarkOrange]you[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide][COLOR=DarkOrange] been?![/COLOR][/url]

[COLOR=DarkOrange](click each word)[/COLOR]

[Dodeca]

[QUOTE=2007DigitalBoy][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict][COLOR=DarkOrange]Where[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide] [COLOR=DarkOrange]the[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war] [COLOR=DarkOrange]hell[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history] [COLOR=DarkOrange]you[/COLOR][/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide][COLOR=DarkOrange] been?![/COLOR][/url]

[COLOR=DarkOrange](click each word)[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]You missed my point, namely the [I]marginal improvement[/I] bit. I wasn't trying to point out that the past was all dirty and that modern society is all clean, my point was that the human race has been a fairly rotten one since the beginning. If you think that we're any worse, or a whole lot better, than we were in the past, think again. [You don't think that, I know. : P]

In fact, my opinion's fairly similiar to yours, at least in the sense that I highly doubt that humanity will ever be able to sort itself out as much as it'd like too. True peace, as far as I'm concerned, is simply beyond our grasp - we can try as much as we like, but greed and selfishness will always resurface to tear our attempts apart. It's human nature.

However, people [i]do[/i] actually seem to [i]care[/i] about things these days. We don't just follow blindly [well, most of us don't], but instead we choose to ask questions. If someone goes to war, we want a reason. And a good one. If someone wants to kill for no reason, people won't just sit back and let it happen, they'll protest against it. [COLOR=DimGray][And, on the most part, people in power don't kill anyone who dares to question their decisions these days either. Unless they're tyrant dictators, naturally.][/COLOR] [I]That[/I]'s the marginal improvement. : P[/SIZE]

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Yeah, humanity has always been imperfect. To view that as some horrible condition is missing the unfortunate fact that, well, that is all that there can be on this earth for any living creature or system. The checks and balances within nature are not perfect. They exist because excesses are inevitable. Too much rain, too many plants, too many herbivores, too many carnivores.

Human sentience has given it a much more powerful effect on it's surroundings and each other but we are still subject to nature's innate imperfection. Beyond natural reactions to our excesses, humans often put each other in check when things are considered to be out of control.

We aren't monsters, lol. I don't see how anyone can easily look at something so diverse and filled with independent creatures as humanity and say "all of us are horrible". It's a deeper, vaster picture than that. The complicated systems of legislation which affects the passage of measures to help the environment, the amount of support needed, the sheer mass of people across the globe you have to make aware of things, the divided nationalistic states that block the way to any sort of global peace.

Humans aren't evil creatures. Humans are complicated creatures with complicated systems organizing their economies, their governments, their nations and many other things. To try to challenge global issues takes a great lot of maneuvering and time.

And honestly some people in this thread are just kids. Stuff is ****** up! It'll be ****** up!

Life really sucks when you purposefully limit your point of view to that. [/color]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[QUOTE=DeathKnight][color=crimson]And honestly some people in this thread are just kids. Stuff is ****** up! It'll be ****** up!

Life really sucks when you purposefully limit your point of view to that. [/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]I agree. But that's the way I see it. Because even if I do go with your idea that human's are only naturally the way they are -- and I agree -- am I supposed to like it? No. If human nature is something I don't enjoy, i will not enjoy it. I'm not saying it's ****** up in the eyes of morality. I'm not saying 'we do all this stuff and it's wrong.' Wrong and right means nothing to me -- I only care about what effect the state of the world has on my own life. As far as I'm concerned, the world is ****** up. Yes, I'm probably shortsighted, but I don't need to look too far ahead to know that i don't enjoy what I see.[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='2007DigitalBoy][color=DarkOrange]Wrong and right means nothing to me -- I only care about what effect the state of the world has [b]on my own life[/b'].[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=crimson]Yes. Exactly.

Human nature usually makes you primarily concerned with yourself and your family- your income, your ability to care for your family, your health, what the government is doing to [b]you[/b] (taxes, health care, etc.). There is a secondary care for situations around the world, especially so if your country is involved, but those situations don't pay the bills, get you to work, help you with your paper and so on.

People present the human race as making decisions consciously as a collective with amazingly high foresight. For example, the Industrial Revolution was not intended to destroy the environment and was not even begun universally amongst the human race. It spread from Great Britain and never touched countries such as India or China which lead to many of the tumultuous events in their history. The effects that it has had on our history and environment could not be fathomed at the time.

The luck and decisions of a few ultimately cause a series of events that drastically affect situations. Usually how the series of events goes is far beyond anyone's ability to guess.

There is no grand orchestration on the whole period, let alone for evil or good means. The things that spread and affect the globe prior to this point in history were ignorant in that they were done with the present in mind.

Hindsight is 20/20.[/color]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='DeathKnight][color=crimson']Hindsight is 20/20.[/color][/quote]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]i agree with this completely, too, though I don't think people are usually completely blind to what's going on. While it is true that there are things people didn't know where going to end up the way they did, there are others where they were perfectly capable of realizing how stupid what was going on was.

I think a shining example of this balance can be seen in our country right now. When this war started a lot of people were supportive and stuff, but now in hindsight most people have come to realize how crazy this whole thing is. But when it comes to something like genocide, the people slaughtering an entire race are perfectly capable of realizing what they are doing. It's not like the annihilation of a race of people only looks bad in hindsight. But I could be misurderstanding your post entirely or something, I'm afraid I get lost in the way you write sometimes.[/COLOR]

[DeathKnight]

[quote name='2007DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange']But when it comes to something like genocide, the people slaughtering an entire race are perfectly capable of realizing what they are doing. It's not like the annihilation of a race of people only looks bad in hindsight. But I could be misurderstanding your post entirely or something, I'm afraid I get lost in the way you write sometimes.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=crimson]Granted. Some issues can be very black and white while others a bold spectrum of colors.

To follow your example though a genocidal action on the part of a regime can spiral out into a regional war not in the plans of the regime which can have a dire effect on thousands more than before.

So all things have the potential for complications the more people, governments and otherwise are involved.[/color]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Dodeca][SIZE=1']When a group could be blamed for a nation's troubles and murdered en masse.[/SIZE][/quote]
[size=1]If people are economically depressed enough, you could do it again. I know I'm splitting hairs, but I thought I'd point it out.

I think how you define "humanity" affects my answer to the OP's question. If we define humanity as human development, then I must heavily disagree. There's been a general trend towards greater techology/social freedom/economic strength in the world.

However, if we define "humanity" as compassion for our fellow man, willingness to help others, and general equitable treatment of all, then I would say that we've stayed about the same. There will always be more people apathetic to other's blights, and a [slightly?] smaller percentile of those who are compassionate.

As an interesting side note, our more developed technology gives us more sophisticated and effective ways of killing one another. Meaning genocide is easier than ever![/size]

[DaSilva]

I really don't believe that we can say that humanity has progressed one bit. To count what we have done as progress, we must first know what we are progressing towards. Until a purpose is found, no progress can be made.

Go existentialism!

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=DaSilva]I really don't believe that we can say that humanity has progressed one bit. To count what we have done as progress, we must first know what we are progressing towards. Until a purpose is found, no progress can be made.

Go existentialism![/QUOTE]
[size=1]I think "human progress" could be accurately defined as the movement towards a heightened quality of life for all.

But really, you're just being obnoxious by playing semantics.[/size]