Smoking in Movies

[Charles]

I am going to start smoking because of this thread.

[DeadSeraphim]

[quote name='Charles']I am going to start smoking because of this thread.[/quote]
[size=1][color=indigo][font=arial]I'm so proud of you. The peer pressure finally payed off.[/font][/color][/size]

[Delta]

[COLOR=#656446]I've taken the initiative to compile a list of popular movies and their expected ratings after the rule in question is enforced:

[indent][size=1][b][i]Snow White and the Seven Dwarves:[/i] R[/b]
Can't have Doc and the Queen's cauldron get away with it now, can we?

[b][i]An Inconvenient Truth:[/i] R[/b]
Shots of smokestacks, emissions and every conceivable incinerator in the world: Check.

[b][i]The Lord of the Rings:[/i] XXX[/b]
Meritous show of smokers, the most notable of which include Gandalf, Bilbo, Sam, Frodo, Aragorn, and the whole of Minas Morgul

[b][i]Sin City:[/i] NONE[/b]
If they edit the cigs out, I doubt there will be enough film left to even stand in for an infomercial.[/size][/indent]
Ah, and I think Snake will have to do without his smokes for a while. We want the movie remake of [i]Metal Gear Solid[/i] to sell, yeah?[/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Nerdsy][color=deeppink']Which makes me curious; do any of you naysayers think that we should abolish the ratings system entirely because movies don't influence people? That's what the entire thing is for; to keep things like sex and violence from influencing kids. [/color][/quote][size=1]I think you all are ignoring this very valid point Nerdsy brings up. I'd like to see people argue against this instead of talking around it or failing to address it at all.

[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial]Actually, I'd like to abolish the rating system because it's just plain ineffective, mostly due to ambiguous messaging present in the [strike]scores[/strike'] scripts?which brings up another thought: there is a marked difference between realistic smoking and advertising smoking.[/FONT][/quote]
Don't be silly. Are you saying that a parent should not know that Sin City and The Incredibles are on two totally different planes of existence in terms of violence and maturity? Are you saying that a parent should not know that, despite it's moments of animation, Kill Bill is not intended for children?

Ratings aren't censorship, folks. They're advisory and are intended to give you a vague idea of how mature the material within them so that you don't have a 7 year old walking into A Scanner Darkly because it looks like a cartoon.[/size]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Retribution][size=1']Don't be silly. Are you saying that a parent should not know that Sin City and The Incredibles are on two totally different planes of existence in terms of violence and maturity? Are you saying that a parent should not know that, despite it's moments of animation, Kill Bill is not intended for children?[/size][/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Of course not.
[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial']Essentially, I blame the audience's lack of discretion for any influencing that may occur or may have occurred. The only thing crying "foul!" about it will accomplish is ridiculous rating protocol that will most likely be ignored anyway.[/FONT][/quote]
That's what I mean by ineffective. Ratings are pretty much cursory right now, and I would think that previews are quite sufficient for a parent to decide upon a movie's suitablilty or lack thereof.[/FONT]

[Nerdsy]

[QUOTE=Delta][COLOR=#656446[indent][size=1][b][i]Snow White and the Seven Dwarves:[/i] R[/b]
Can't have Doc and the Queen's cauldron get away with it now, can we?

[b][i]An Inconvenient Truth:[/i] R[/b]
Shots of smokestacks, emissions and every conceivable incinerator in the world: Check.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]It's an automatic R rating for the consumption of tobacco, not the prescence of smoke. :rolleyes: [/color]

[quote=deeppink][b][i]Sin City:[/i] NONE[/b]
If they edit the cigs out, I doubt there will be enough film left to even stand in for an infomercial.[/size][/indent][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]So let me get this straight... the producers are going to take a movie that's already rated R for extreme violence, nudity, sex, and foul language, and cut out the smoking because they don't want an R rating? That's some interesting logic.[/color]

[quote name='Charles]']I am going to start smoking because of this thread.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]See? This is why we need this! To protect the weak-willed![/color]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][QUOTE=Nerdsy][color=deeppink]Besides, they're not cutting smoking from movies. They're just going to rate them differently.

Which makes me curious; do any of you naysayers think that we should abolish the ratings system entirely because movies don't influence people? That's what the entire thing is for; to keep things like sex and violence from influencing kids. [/color][/QUOTE]I'm of two minds about this. The first I can see how it would be considered an influence on teenagers or minors since often they want to look cool, they want to fit in, and if their friends and favorite stars are smoking, it just might influence them to do so too.

On the other side, if we are educating these kids and they know the dangers, then there's really no need to rate smoking in movies. Since in the end they'll make their own choice as to whether or not they decide to smoke. I know when I was a teenager I could have cared less if someone smoked. In fact since I was still living at home and required to attend church, anyone who smoked was looked down on by me and my friends. It was considered way uncool to smoke. Though now I don't really care if someone does, so long as it's not in my house.

Now as for your statement about removing ratings...ratings, at least for me, are a way to know what to expect when I get a movie or decide what to go and see. So even if we decide that violence, sex and smoking doesn't really influence people, ratings are still useful. Though I doubt you'll be able to convince a fair amount of parents that they don't influence minors.

And on some level I think it does influence minors, after all, just as I was raised to think smoking was awful, my parents as well as my friends parents couldn't be bothered to teach us the basics about sex. So obviously, even though movies aren't real, seeing such stuff would have influenced us from the standpoint of it would have been the only thing we would have seen or heard about sex. But in my opinion that would have been our parents fault not the creator of the movie. [/COLOR]

[Retribution]

[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial']That's what I mean by ineffective. Ratings are pretty much cursory right now, and I would think that previews are quite sufficient for a parent to decide upon a movie's suitablilty or lack thereof.[/FONT][/quote]
[size=1]I think it's unrealistic for you to expect parents to watch trailers of movies to determine whether or not they're appropriate for their children to see. I think the good/bad for kids dichotomy we have right now is good, i.e. G - PG13 and R. At a glance, parents can see roughly how "adult" the movie is going to be, instead of having to size the film up for themselves based on a two minute trailer.

If you provide the ratings and the audience still have no discretion, then that's the audience's prerogative, but the MPAA should be obligated to provide that information.[/size]

[Rachmaninoff]

[quote name='Allamorph][FONT=Arial]That's what I mean by ineffective. Ratings are pretty much cursory right now, and I would think that previews are quite sufficient for a parent to decide upon a movie's suitablilty or lack thereof.[/FONT][/QUOTE]I'm surprised to see you say that when previews for R movies have to be edited to be suitable to be aired with movies that aren't rated R. Just take a look here:[quote=Wikipedia - Trailer (film)']A green band is an all-green graphic at the beginning of the trailer, usually reading "The following PREVIEW has been approved for ALL AUDIENCES by the Motion Picture Association of America," and sometimes including the movie's MPAA rating. This signifies that the trailer adheres to the standards for motion picture advertising outlined by the MPAA, which includes limitations on foul language and violent, sexual, or otherwise objectionable imagery. Trailers that do not adhere to these guidelines may be issued a red band, (which used to be blood red) which reads "The following PREVIEW has been approved for RESTRICTED AUDIENCES ONLY by the Motion Picture Association of America," and may only be shown before an R-rated, NC-17-rated, or unrated movie. The MPAA also mandates that trailers not exceed two minutes and thirty seconds in length, and each major studio is given one exception to this rule per year.[/quote]Previews are [I]advertising[/I], not an indication of what to expect as far as sex, language, violence or other objectionable imagery in the actual movie is going to be. That's what the [I]ratings[/I] are for.

As for the topic, if what the article states about studies showing that smoking does influence minors is true, then I don't really see the problem with including it as part of the rating process. Personally I think it's highly unlikely since minors pretty much do what they want anyway. Regardless if they've seen it in a movie or not.

[Jiazu]

As far as I'm concerned, the MPAA can rate away. Ratings and censorship aren't the same thing, and so long as they're not blurring out cigarettes like they do in some asian countries (it's really funny too.. someone puts a cigarette up to their lips.. INSTANT BLUR!! pull it away, back to normal.. :) like no one knows what they're doing...) or banning it from movies, I'm fine with it. It's not like the ratings affect what movies I can see anyway... At least not anymore.. And anyway, since you can buy movie tickets on the internet now anyway, any enterprising teen can buy themselves those 'R' movie tickets all on their lonesome (assuming they have a debit/credit card or one of those prepaid dealies you can get from drugstores)

[Gavin]

[size=1]Oooh a completely pointless move by censors, doesn't it just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Seriously I get the whole ?children see cool people in movies smoking and want to do it too? argument but anyone who comes from a family of smokers sees the real effects, cancer etc.[/size]

[quote name='Raiyuu]On a related note, every enclosed space in England is going smoke-free in the next couple of months. [b]That[/b'] will discourage smoking, when you have to excuse yourself to go stand in the rain if you want to do it.[/quote]

[size=1]Yeah you can blame that one on us Raiyuu, and really it?s not as bad as it sounds. If you?re a non-smoker you can just sit and enjoy a drink with your non-smoking friends while laughing at people you know stuck out in the rain.[/size]

[Guest DarkXBlood]

I don't think smoking should be really that included in the ratings, but the idea of seeing little kids watching a bunch of people smoking disgusts me. The same goes when I see little kids in horror movies. Previews are ads, and they don't tell much details, which is what ratings are for. Parents use ratings to get a clearer view what they were going to see
I do not believe that if a little kids saw someone smoke they shall run to get a cigar, but it may help them make the decision of actually choosing to smoke than be smoke free.

[Raiyuu]

[quote name='Gavin][size=1']Yeah you can blame that one on us Raiyuu, and really it?s not as bad as it sounds.[/size][/quote]I was quoting it as a good thing. No more "smoking or non-smoking, sir?"

[Gavin]

[quote name='Raiyuu']I was quoting it as a good thing. No more "smoking or non-smoking, sir?"[/quote]

[SIZE=1]Ah fair enough, glad to see I'm not the only one who believes the smoking bans are good things.[/SIZE]