Hentai and Bigger Stuff!

[Raiha]

[font=times][COLOR=DarkOrchid]I think it would be great if we could have a hentai forum for the adult or seemingly adult members to post in. Not only would we be able to talk about one more face of anime, we'd be able to share things that bring us happiness. Bible Black, Fruits Basket, and so on and so forth.

Furthermore, bigger signature banners would be awesome. Not just in a Freudian sense, or a Jungian one, but it'd be super if there was more of us to love. Bigger is always better! [/COLOR][/font]

[Charles]

I have to agree with both of these suggestions. The banners we use right now are currently sickly small. A huge size increase would surely attract more members because big banners send a message of big fun.

Also, we constantly stress that this forum is also for adults but we don't offer basic services related to adult anime, like hentai.

[MadHat]

[color=scarlet]oh i agree. theres nowhere to post my extensive collection of yaoi pics. this is a travesty. we need to bring more mature cultre to these boards!

and it is certainly far too little. i had to cut out scarlets dress, and thats her best feature! i suggest we triple the size limit of the banner (up and down), and double the size for avatars.

its only fair.[/color]

[Nomurah!]

[COLOR=HotPink][B]These are some of the best ideas I've ever heard...I know my friend Ikillion will totally help create this hentai forum, as I am so excited about the idea.

And I've always wanted to have bigger siggys. Yeah.[/B][/COLOR]

[Guest Copycatalyst]

In our societies we love to propagate various instilled memes into our progeny. One such one is called "the Taboo of Sex." The ToS concerns that nakedness is an immoral "sin" and that sex is also an immoral act unless one is "married." The truth of the matter is that all humans are married by being humans to each other, and that nakedness is how we would naturally be--and is nothing to be necessarily ashamed of. Now, I am not asking for those who want to be naked, or want to not be ToSers, to bother other ToSers. I'm not asking for some Greece where men bathe together in baths like lovers--though that would perhaps be neat. All I'm asking, and the OP is asking, is that there be a special forum that is for a special, often crude--yes--form of anime, which is a perfectly rational proposition to ask for consideration because this is [i]Otakuboards[/i], and part of being an otaku who is eighteen or older is hentai. It is my proposition that this forum should be locked/ hidden to the not-18-year-old-or-older, and that one must first take a test of age--perhaps developed by Charles as a means of having to directly PM him, or James in order to join the hentai forum. This way the adult-oriented material which would find itself in this forum or sub-forum of the anime forum wouldn't meet the aspiring eyes of some sixteen-year-old nerd who wants some whoopee action, Japanese cartoon style.

Concerning the bigger avatars: yes. Of course. Bigger is better, for better or worse--as we know; it's time we give our members more enjoyment of the hilarity of images one can put in a sig or avatar. Currently the sizes we have are pretty conservative, and could be enlarged; I am not asking for it to be as large as a one-ton obese American but it would be nice if it could be something like half of that, or something more practical in a progressive means than currently. Just think: would you rather get spammy suggestions in this forum for bigger avatars, as if receiving E-mails concerning "enlargement" of a certain aspect of the male anatomy, or would you rather let that enlargement exist, and ban those whose are too large?

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][size=1]Three easy steps:

1. Change the required age of registration to 18.
2. Ban all current members under 18. (Apologies to Nonentity, Not Nomura, Madhat, Premonition, etc. We'd love to grandfather you in, but laws are laws, and the OB can't afford the consequences that might come with distributing pornographic images to minors.)
3. Party (18+) in the new hentai lounge![/size][/color]

[desertphoenix]

Plain and simple, Americans are getting bigger thus needing bigger coffins, bigger avatars and bigger banners. But seriously, I would love to see bigger avatars allowed or even varied dimensions than the current 150 by 80. I cried when I found stuff I wanted to use that were 175 by 50 or 145 by 100 and so on.

As for the hentai, I say why not. I don't care if this forum already knows my age, I would still support it. lol

[Charles]

[QUOTE=Sara][color=#b0000b][size=1]Three easy steps:

1. Change the required age of registration to 18.
2. Ban all current members under 18. (Apologies to Nonentity, Not Nomura, Madhat, Premonition, etc. We'd love to grandfather you in, but laws are laws, and the OB can't afford the consequences that might come with distributing pornographic images to minors.)
3. Party (18+) in the new hentai lounge![/size][/color][/QUOTE]

It's not pornography--it's cartoon art that is shared freely in Japan.

[desertphoenix]

[quote name='Charles']It's not pornography--it's cartoon art that is shared freely in Japan.[/quote]

That being said, I guess I won't be under aged then. Hey, you know any way I get a job overseeing all the hentai that comes in? [spoiler] I'm kidding[/spoiler]

[Shy]

[size=1]I have to disagree with the idea of larger banners/avatars because they would inevitably lead to slower loading times. While my connection is relatively fast by today's standards, I know there are a lot of members who still use dial-up and 56k. OB has always prided itself on quick loading times and even a minor change in banner sizes could lead to severe lagging. Even most of the current threads in the art studio load slowly for me, and if the entire boards were like that it would definitely discourage me from visiting.

The last thing we want to do is exclude members because of their slow connection speeds. The current banner/avatar limits are more than generous, and I think you'll find that most patriotic members feel the same way.

As for hentai: TheOtaku.com and OtakuBoards are family sites. While we occasionally dabble in more 'adult' content in RPGs and discussions, we are always clear about putting up a disclaimer to warn younger members. Having an entire public forum devoted to cartoon porn seems unneccessary, and it would put us in direct conflict with the family-friendly environment we try to promote on the boards.

If you want to discuss hentai so badly you can always create a thread about it in the Anime Lounge, just be sure to put up a disclaimer of some kind. Anything more than a handful of threads about the subject would hurt the forum, and attract the wrong kinds of members to our little community.

Are you trying to invite sexual predators and deviants to OB?

-Shy[/size]

[Guest LadyMacaiodh]

Hentai would provide flesh. The beast demands that flesh. If the beast is denied the flesh then it will take it. None shall survive.

[Guest Copycatalyst]

[QUOTE=Shy][size=1]I have to disagree with the idea of larger banners/avatars because they would inevitably lead to slower loading times. While my connection is relatively fast by today's standards, I know there are a lot of members who still use dial-up and 56k. OB has always prided itself on quick loading times and even a minor change in banner sizes could lead to severe lagging. Even most of the current threads in the art studio load slowly for me, and if the entire boards were like that it would definitely discourage me from visiting.

The last thing we want to do is exclude members because of their slow connection speeds. The current banner/avatar limits are more than generous, and I think you'll find that most patriotic members feel the same way.[/quote][/size]

While your reasoning and admonitions in these paragraphs is honorary, it is not the best use of reason in a gestalt sense. No matter what one does one cannot cater to anyone. One can just as easily turn the logic in the paragraphs above upside-down and inverted and say:

I have to agree with the idea of larger banners/ avatars because they would not lead to slower loading times for those with highspeed--and those with 56k are using a crude, reprehensible way of accessing the net when one can find cable or DSL for pretty much the same price of a good 56K ISP at this point in time. I know there are a lot of members who use dial-up or 56K but there are also many members who use cable or a more high-speed form of internet, and it is my [i]knowledge[/i] that the amount of those with 56k vs. the amount with cable is not equal, and that there will be more with cable than 56k; thus to be more even and equal in our laying of load times, one would have to let the majority rule with minority rights. Thus, I have just obliterated your logic above by inversion and coin-flipping of its tracings of your reason, and implemented an even stronger, more gestalt sense of reasoning into my assertion and debunkment of your own.

[quote=Shy][size=1]As for hentai: TheOtaku.com and OtakuBoards are family sites. While we occasionally dabble in more 'adult' content in RPGs and discussions, we are always clear about putting up a disclaimer to warn younger members. Having an entire public forum devoted to cartoon porn seems unneccessary, and it would put us in direct conflict with the family-friendly environment we try to promote on the boards.

If you want to discuss hentai so badly you can always create a thread about it in the Anime Lounge, just be sure to put up a disclaimer of some kind. Anything more than a handful of threads about the subject would hurt the forum, and attract the wrong kinds of members to our little community.[/quote][/size]

The logic you are using here is pretty hard to destroy. I was considering that perhaps a reorganization of the very way we categorize Otakuboards is in order, if that is such with Otakuboards. What should be done is a subcategorization of the main categories of OB.

The main categories of OB are at this time: An anime forum, a video game forum, a "lounging" forum, a music forum, a writing forum, [i]etc[/i]. There are many threads made which are merely repetitions of past-made-threads only relevant for their chronology, or time-creation-event; which is to say only relevant because the past threads which are mostly the same are "dead" or "forgotten" are only "nostalgiacly" remembered.

What could be done is a categorization within these categories.

So, for example, in the Anime Forum we could do something like such--user clicks into anime forum--and sees something like this:

[list]
[*]Hentai
[*]Harem
[*]Ecchi
[*]Shojo
[*]Shonen
[*]Action/ Adventure
[*]Horror
[/list]

One could do this to any category currently existent on OB: I could just as easily fashion one for the OL, or the Anth forum, or any other at all: even this very forum itself. Thus, in a sense, we can receive what we want--a hentai forum--but in a more reasonable matter, that also makes hentai and OB, even moreso, to be viewed as a [i]professional source of anime and a forum which deserves respect instantly simply by how it is organized[/i].

Also by doing so one would stop many of the repetitious threads that have been mostly the death of OB to this point. Also by doing such, one will garner much more respectable members: for the organization and level of coherency in that organization will endlessly make its members post respectable, powerful posts; and spam will be further minimalized--as well as a considering-member of OB would see its organization, and what a strong community of personalities it is--and join themselves because they are as strong of a personality too.

By doing this one will attract better members by being true to anime--for hentai is a valid genre of anime just as valid as any other--which is what I thought this whole forum was about: [i]being true to anime[/i].


[quote=Shy][size=1]Are you trying to invite sexual predators and deviants to OB?

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE]

No. Read above for reasoning.

[Charles]

[quote name='Shy][size=1']I have to disagree with the idea of larger banners/avatars because they would inevitably lead to slower loading times. While my connection is relatively fast by today's standards, I know there are a lot of members who still use dial-up and 56k. OB has always prided itself on quick loading times and even a minor change in banner sizes could lead to severe lagging. Even most of the current threads in the art studio load slowly for me, and if the entire boards were like that it would definitely discourage me from visiting.[/quote]

I do not think they would. If we are talking about basic large image with a requirement still placed on the memory of the image, we could still get away with allowing the increase without sacrificing speed. Furthermore, members have the option of disabling signatures if they do not wish to view them. So, if someone is behind-the-times enough to be using 56k, they should have no problem sacrificing signatures in favor of speed. Basically, the options allow them to decide what is practical or not. We should not have to suffer because someone has a slow connection speed.

I visit many forums that allow big banners and none of them load slowly; keep in mind that these are far more active forums. So, I doubt that OtakuBoards would be affected too much.

[quote]As for hentai: TheOtaku.com and OtakuBoards are family sites. While we occasionally dabble in more 'adult' content in RPGs and discussions, we are always clear about putting up a disclaimer to warn younger members. Having an entire public forum devoted to cartoon porn seems unneccessary, and it would put us in direct conflict with the family-friendly environment we try to promote on the boards.

If you want to discuss hentai so badly you can always create a thread about it in the Anime Lounge, just be sure to put up a disclaimer of some kind. Anything more than a handful of threads about the subject would hurt the forum, and attract the wrong kinds of members to our little community.[/quote]

We could easily put a disclaimer up in the forum description--and the forum could be collapsed in one's user settings. I think that it is obvious that the membership here at OtakuBoards has grown up. Most RPGs and fiction stories deal with very mature adult content and themes. I think the point here is that we view hentai as a form of artwork--not porn. We view sex as a beautiful expression of human emotion and that expression, combined with the anime' art style we all love so much, seems like it could be a great contribution to what the site has to offer.

Many members have clammored for a yaoi forum over the years, so the interest is there.

So, while I think we should still keep our family-friendly forums going strong, it would be great if we went off and explored other avenues for a change so that the forums do not become stagnant. This is OtakuBoards and we need to cater to all forms of anime in order to live up to that name.

[quote]Are you trying to invite sexual predators and deviants to OB?[/quote]

Come now, Shy. Is stereotyping really necessary? Does Raiha look like a predator or a deviant to you? Nomura? Mitch? Myself? Sara? Desertphoenix?

I think that ordinary people can enjoy this form of art. It could be said that any messageboard is capacble of attracting deviants, but we all know that the moderating staff is capable of dealing with that issue.

I do not think that we should live in fear of predators and deviants; they are all over the place on the Internet and we cannot restrict features just because they may be "out there." But, we can always keep an eye on things and deal with them if need be. I mean, by the same token, myOtaku could be a window for sexual predators to contact children, couldn't it? And that site is much larger in scope and difficult to moderate.

[Sara]

[color=#b0000b][b]Point: Organisation of hentai makes sites respectable and spam-free.[/b][QUOTE=Copycatalyst]What could be done is a categorization within these categories.

So, for example, in the Anime Forum we could do something like such--user clicks into anime forum--and sees something like this:

[list]
[*]Hentai
[*]Harem
[*]Ecchi
[*]Shojo
[*]Shonen
[*]Action/ Adventure
[*]Horror
[/list]

Thus, in a sense, we can receive what we want--a hentai forum--but in a more reasonable matter, that also makes hentai and OB, even moreso, to be viewed as a [b]professional source of anime and a forum which deserves respect instantly simply by how it is organized.[/b]

Also by doing such, one will garner much more respectable members: for the organization and level of coherency in that organization will endlessly make its members post respectable, powerful posts; and spam will be further minimalized.[/quote][b]Counterpoint:[/b] 4chan.[/color]

[Guest Copycatalyst]

[quote name='Sara][color=#b0000b][b]Point: Organisation of hentai makes sites respectable and spam-free.[/b][b]Counterpoint:[/b'] 4chan.[/color][/quote]

Rebuttal: Point was [i]organization of a website to its maximum of ease of use and staying true to its material (which having hentai or discussing it is "staying true to its material") will make a site's quality respectable and spam free[/i]. Counterpoint judged point incorrectly and did not put a single hole in its logic.






Revision of point for means of clarity to Sara: [i]Let us not forget that there would be mods filtering out spammous comments as well--mods who actually do their jobs[/i].

Thus the logical statement I am saying is thus, in synthesis:

"Organization of a website to its maximum ease of use, and the maximum amount of discussion allowed, even for judgmentally-said-to-be by replying poster Sara to be 'porn' will allow a messageboard to flourish rather than cater itself into oblivion. Further, if mods actually do their duties, and the site is organized as best as possible, the quality will not lessen due to speaking of hentai within sub-categorization of such if such was made."

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Charles']It's not pornography--it's cartoon art that is shared freely in Japan.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Ooh, semantics. Lovely. Shall we consult a dictionary?

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, pornography is "Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal." Every other (non-archaic) definition is extremely similar to this.

Hentai, my friend, fits this description like a glove. And what does it matter whether or not it's shared freely in Japan? We're not all Japanophiles here, Charlie boy, we don't model our practices after them.

Hentai is restricted the same as live-action porn is in most countries, correct? I know that every time I've seen one in the stores, it's had one of those "must be 18 to buy" stickers on it. That being so, we would have to change the age restriction as Sara recommended. However, there are a lost of places where 18 is not old enough; therefore, to truly comply with all laws, we'd have to set a restriction of 21. Now, I'm not 21 yet, and I'd hate to be banned after well over 6 years of model behavior. this isn't even taking into account the fact that many of our mods (and even an admin!) is not 21.

While the Blue Bomber does bring up a point, in that hentai may bring fresh meat to the boards, is that really the type of userbase we want? As Sara has said, has anyone here actually [i]been[/i] to 4chan? Slippery slope, my friends. Slippery slope.

Copy's post, though eloquent (I expect nothing less from a poet of Copy's calibur), hinges on this idea that hentai is somehow part of OBs "material;" pornography has never been part of the material of this network of sites. Adam himself has even stated even refused in the past to make a shrine to ranma 1/2, despite that not being the worst that would be posted. We are strictly an anime website; that is, anime that is [i]not[/i] pornographic.

In the end, every argument for hentai is moot when there's no chance in hell Adam will allow it.

As for signature restrictions; there are those that enjoy looking at banners that are still on a 56k, and just saying "well, you can turn it off" is a bit callous. Has anyone seen the boards with the sigs off? [i]Boring.[/i] We'd be encouraging desertment among the memberbase.

I know on my old 56k, even the current restrictions it took a while to load. This is a simple matter of not giving the "technologically advanced" members a distinct advantage, and trying to avoid giving our 56k members the shaft.[/color]

[Guest Copycatalyst]

The word pornography in its connotation is what it is; its denotation is another matter altogether, and is not some mere semantical squabble. Its connotative use is often [i]tinged[/i] with Christian morality or some moralism of dichotomic ends--which is therefore limited in its ends.

As far as your reply to hentai: it is a respectable aspect of anime if viewed from without the dichotomic "good and evil" viewpoint which you follow, since it was memeated into you. Sex is not bad; nakedness is not bad; and if OB wants to remain true to its source material--it will show [i]all aspects of that material or it might as well not be showing any at all[/i].

As far as your dissertation on 56k vs. highspeed: [i]majority rules with minority rights.[/i] Which is to say a compromise could be made there, but it would be more towards the sovereignty.

[Shy]

[quote name='Copycatalyst']The word pornography in its denotation is what it is; its connotation is another matter altogether, and is not some mere semantical squabble.[/quote]
[size=1]What would you rather call it? Smut? We're not arguing semantics here, we're arguing about obscenity. While your points are well-written, it is absurd to think that we'd ever promote such a dangerous and controversial form of entertainment on this site.

The arguments to create a Yaoi forum were meant to be humorous, and it was ultimately concluded that the subject simply couldn't support its own forum. Despite the fact that we are a part of an anime-related network of sites, even the Anime Lounge is fairly inactive. Manga, a much broader subject, has a dedicated sub-forum and is hardly posted in at all. What makes hentai so special or popular within our community that it would require its own forum?

Nudity is present throughout all art, but hentai and pornography objectify women and the human body. Unless we are going to go so far as to restrict/ban members under 18 years of age, I think having a hentai forum sends a dangerous about what kind of message board community this is.

-Shy[/size]

[Guest Copycatalyst]

[QUOTE=Shy][size=1]What would you rather call it? Smut? We're not arguing semantics here, we're arguing about obscenity. While your points are well-written, it is absurd to think that we'd ever promote such a dangerous and controversial form of entertainment.

The arguments to create a Yaoi forum were meant to be humorous. Despite the fact that we are a part of an anime-related network of sites, the Anime Lounge is fairly inactive. Manga, a much broader subject, has a dedicated sub-forum and is hardly posted in at all. What makes hentai so special or popular within our community that it would require its own forum?

Nudity is present throughout all art, but hentai and pornography objectify women and the human body. Unless we are going to go so far as to restrict/ban members under 18 years of age, I think having a hentai forum sends a dangerous about what kind of message board community this is.

-Shy[/size][/QUOTE]

Not if it has both a man and a woman naked.

Also, there is no "obscenity" in our sexuality, or the barbarity of our natures that is present in it. It is how it is and if you want to deny it. . .you deny being human.

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Copycatalyst]The word pornography in its connotation is what it is; its denotation is another matter altogether, and is not some mere semantical squabble. Its connotative use is often [i]tinged[/i'] with Christian morality or some moralism of dichotomic ends.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Oh no, not Christian morality! Clearly there's nothing redeeming about Christian morals!

And sorry Copy, but in the eyes of the law, denotation is irrelevant. Only connotation matters, and that is the impenetrable roadblock here. Hentai is still restricted from minors (whether or not it's fits in with my personal so-called "good and evil" mentality is irrelevant, because it is still illegal), and we would have to set up some sort of system. As we all know, no system like that is foolproof; we'd still have them little minors lying and getting in to see all kinds of naughty things. The scamps.

The source here is, ignoring the irrelevant forums related to video games and writing, [i]non-pornographic anime.[/i] Read the rules. No adult content, and hentai is legally adult content, whether or not it's good or evil.

And you fail to address the most important point of all: Adam doesn't want it, and I'm positive James would agree. With absolutely no chance to convince them, you're just blowing hot air.

As far as the compromise goes; I believe such a compromise was made years ago. I remember a time when enormous images were often included in signatures; multiple images per signature, in fact. The "minority," as you called them, complained and thus the current rules came to be. We're at a nice compromise right now; why ruin a good thing?

You're a brilliant poet, a worthy heir to Shakespeare himself, but I doubt you'd cut it as a lawyer, Copy my boy. [/color]

[JJ]

[QUOTE=Copycatalyst]Not if it has both a man and a woman naked.

Also, there is no "obscenity" in our sexuality, or the barbarity of our natures that is present in it. It is how it is and if you want to deny it. . .you deny being human.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with denying it. It has to do with the fact that not everyone cares, nor do they want to be exposed to it, or have it rubbed in their faces. It's like religion, you can do as you please, but don't force it upon other people.

[Dagger]

What's all this stuff about [i]human[/i] sexuality? Please, won't someone think of the tentacle monsters? I can guarantee that they're thinking of you...

~Dagger~

[Raiha]

[font=times][COLOR=DarkOrchid]I'm trying to see how tentacle monsters are a bad thing. They have feelings too you know.

Anyway, I'm almost shocked that you're all so interested in the proclivities of hentai viewers. Not all of us are sexual deviants just because we enjoy things that others find questionable. [/font][/COLOR]

[Nerdsy]

[QUOTE=Neuvoxraiha][font=times][COLOR=DarkOrchid]I'm trying to see how tentacle monsters are a bad thing. They have feelings too you know.

Anyway, I'm almost shocked that you're all so interested in the proclivities of hentai viewers. Not all of us are sexual deviants just because we enjoy things that others find questionable. [/font][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]We are not interested in your proclivities, as long as you don't bring them here. We are not judging you, nor are we telling you not to look at such drawings. We are merely worried about the consequences to OB itself, both in terms of the diminished user base and legal ramifications.[/color]

[Dagger]

[quote name='Neuvoxraiha][font=times][COLOR=DarkOrchid]I'm trying to see how tentacle monsters are a bad thing. They have feelings too you know. [/font'][/COLOR][/quote]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/DaggerIX1/e44dc906121b995.gif[/IMG]