Sicko

[Guest Copycatalyst]

I have not seen the film yet. However, I was always of the opinion that there is obviously many things wrong with the state of America as it stands today. Whatever political alignment Moore has, or whatever overbearance and hyperbole of the facts which he is stating within this film is not is what is to be seen. This film does not per necessity offer solutions to the problems as they are. It does not cast blame in any certain direction. It is merely meant to bring our attention to matters of greater interest than if it's okay if someone is gay and black at the same time. The point of this film is to expose the blatant disregard our country has for its own people. The message it casts may be distorted in so many ways by the filmmaker's own soul put into it; aside from this, there is actuality and truth to what is being said in this film, and to deny the fact that there are many whom are in pain or whom need care, and do not receive it, is to, to say it bluntly, be an asshole. It's to completely devalue the life of a human being and put your own ego and your own petty concerns above it.

We medicate ourselves with medicines which do not heal us; we have created an entire culture of fear, and we feed this fear into a money machine. This money machine is found in pharmaceutical companies and the gross overdiagnosis of various disorders, many illusionary and merely manifest in the way our country chooses to make itself function. It is most often in the case of the diagnosed not the diagnosed who is in disorder but in fact the environment in which they exist. This society is built to condition itself to consume and consume and consume vast quantities of heavily processed foods, to overwork to the point of exhaustion, and then we cannot consider why we are obese, or why we have such health problems, or why we are so "depressed" or "disorderly."

Our health care system is a sick care system existent to take care of cattle we raise and put in harm's way. These cattle, these human beings, so degraded from the truths of what it is to be a human being, then use the wealth they obtain by putting themselves in harm's way to help heal their harm. It is a circuitous system which is degradent of the very fabric of our lives. It is a system which uses the capita of the human being as a machine to feed its own hollowness and its own oligarchy, which we still seem to call democracy, and to feed its vast and teeming monopolizers of various economic sectors; that which we call corporations.

The facts are there. There are cases which prove the depths of the depravity of our culture, specifically in this instance of the utter disgustingness that is our medical field. It is teeming with largeness, with misdiagnosis, with "professionals" whom seemingly do not even know how to do their jobs. The facts are here. If you want to obfuscate small miscalculations of numbers, or cast hate onto the "spin" Moore might place into this, that is your problem. But the [i]real[/i] problem is still here. And it is that something needs to change.

[Shy]

[size=1]I just saw 'Sicko' today and I thought it was great. Obviously Moore has a particular viewpoint he is trying to get across, but health care is an issue that everyone can rally behind regardless of what their political party is.

I was very relieved when the film stopped focusing on medical horror stories and turned its attention towards how medical care is handled in other parts of the world. Those scenes were very effective, but the most interesting and informative scenes took place outside of the United States. While I knew that Canada, France, etc. had superior health care systems I had no idea the level of care those governments give to their people. I found myself embarrassed by America at several points, and kinda started wondering exactly how I could go about gaining British citizenship... heh.

It should be noted that the pacing is a lot slower than 'Fahrenheit 9/11.' The film had no problem holding my interest, but there weren't any 'home run' moments that are going to make you walk out of the theater ready to change the world. This only goes to show how complicated the issue is, and what a difficult job fixing the system is going to be.

With the 2008 election coming up I only hope that this movie motivates candidates to make health care a top priority. The way a lot of major media outlets have been targeting Moore without even seeing the film is ridiculous.

-Shy[/size]

[vegeta rocker]

I have not seen it yet but i do plan to despite the fact that i despise Michael Moore.

He is a biased and manipulative man who uses deceptive editing and storytelling to lie with the truth.

No one in the industry takes him seriously and that is his own fault.

That being said:

I think he has a great idea with Sicko and i know it is a problem here in the US but i hope he gives a legitimate view of the problem.

As for him taking the victims to Cuba for healthcare thats just utter crap and movie magic. Yeah he took them, and they got stellar care. Unlike all the Cubans that die every year due to lack of government funds in health care. The same goes for Canada.

Michael Moore won't show you that, because it doesn't suit his purpose. I'm not saying Cuba is horrible, but they have problems just like we do.

[Semjaza]

I'd like to know what facts you're citing for these issues in Canada and Cuba. There's been surveys and other information for Cuba specifically that show that a vast majority of people there have no problem getting their health care and it costs them a total of $251 a year.

Cuba is also listed 39th on the WHO's best health care systems list. The US is 37. We're higher than Cuba... which sounds nice at first, but we're higher than [I]Cuba[/I] by two rankings. A practically third world country with a crazy dictatorship and we're two points away from it? Come on.

The thing about US health care is that a lot of people are never actually getting to "patient" status because they can't afford to. If you want to talk about people dying [I]in [/I]a system, what about all of the people who don't even get to that point?

I don't think the point of the scene is simply a "movie magic" (although obviously somewhat of an exaggeration, I suppose, and definitely meant to prove a point), but I think it also servers as a direct comparison that should make people realize what a serious problem this is. I mean, to most people, Cuba is considered dirt under our shoes.

It's not a question of who doesn't have problems, it's a question of why "the best country in the world" is that damn comparable. How that doesn't sicken anyone is beyond me.

[Billy Shears]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][size=1]I haven't seen [B]Sicko[/B] either, but it definitely looks like it isn't going to sort of exploit people like [B]Farenheit 9/11[/B] did. That was the only part about [B]Farenheit 9/11[/B] that really irritated me. I felt that Michael Moore took these families tragedies and used them as 'sob stories' to further whatever political agenda Moore is affiliated with. I did feel bad about those people who did experience those losses, but it felt like it was too close to home the way Moore filmed their stories, you know? Michael Moore isn't a respectable man in my book because of that, but he has to make his point in his films somehow.

But anyway, [B]Sicko[/B] does look like it is a fascinating look at the healthcare problems the U.S. faces. I would like to see it.

@ Semjaza: Could you find a link to that story so I could read it? That is pretty goddamn bad (like you said) a near-third-world dictatorship almost has an equal healthcare system as the U.S.[/size][/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

Cuba has three types of medical care, one for the military and government, one for foreigners and one for the general population.

Guess which ones have all the equipment and fancy doctors?

Do you remember where Fidel Castro got his important surgery? He went to Spain. Why? Because Cuba botched his surgery and he had to get it done properly.

The hospital Michael Moore took them to was the one for foreigners! He is a lying fake filmmaker!

I fell for his trick too, i almost wanted to believe that for once Michael Moore had a decent thing going. Americas healthcare system does need work, but now all the government has to to do is say he is being deceptive and they're right.

He is just making it harder for people to fix the problem.

As for links on what im talking about i rummaged up one, i got my info on cuba from books but here is one that talks about this specific incident.

If you just google Cubas healthcare system i am sure you could come up with more.

[URL="http://blog.nam.org/archives/2007/06/the_real_sicko.php"]The Real Sicko is Michael Moore[/URL]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='vegeta rocker']Cuba has three types of medical care, one for the military and government, one for foreigners and one for the general population.

Guess which ones have all the equipment and fancy doctors?

Do you remember where Fidel Castro got his important surgery? He went to Spain. Why? Because Cuba botched his surgery and he had to get it done properly.

The hospital Michael Moore took them to was the one for foreigners! He is a lying fake filmmaker!

I fell for his trick too, i almost wanted to believe that for once Michael Moore had a decent thing going. Americas healthcare system does need work, but now all the government has to to do is say he is being deceptive and they're right.

He is just making it harder for people to fix the problem.

As for links on what im talking about i rummaged up one, i got my info on cuba from books but here is one that talks about this specific incident.

If you just google Cubas healthcare system i am sure you could come up with more.

[URL="http://blog.nam.org/archives/2007/06/the_real_sicko.php"]The Real Sicko is Michael Moore[/URL][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]If the effing Cubans can give foreigners better health care than America, then duh, that's still a good point. Doi.[/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

You think its a good point that Cuba lets its own people die and have little to no treatment?

That kind of system would do nothing for the failing healthcare system.

The only reasons they were treated over there was because of the documentary. Had they not been filmed the entire time they would have had to pay immense amounts of money.

They don't have enough money to get healthcare over here much less paying for Cuba.
I guarantee you any [I]effing[/I] country would do the same if a camera were rolling.

So I guess you are saying we should bascially have good healthcare for people who can either afford it or have it guaranteed by their status.

Basically Cuba is an extreme version of what we already have going on.

You do realize that the native cubans that actually do get treatment have to bring their own bed linenes, food, clothes bascially anything they will need while they are there.

Toilet paper included.

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='vegeta rocker']You think its a good point that Cuba lets its own people die and have little to no treatment?

So I guess you are saying we should bascially have good healthcare for people who can either afford it or have it guaranteed by their status.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, especially when you are drawing so many nonsensical conclusions out of a simple factual statement.[/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

If you think i am putting words in your mouth than i apologize.

It just seemed that by you saying he was making a good point you were agreeing with him about America following Cuba's example.

[Boo]

[size=1]I love that interview with Michael Moore at CNN. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKoN40K7mA][b]Link[/b][/url]. :)[/size]

[Drix D'Zanth]

Good link, Boo. I can understand why Michael was so angry, but he probably could have cooled down a bit. I think Sicko is a brilliant peice of rhetoric. Michael Moore is a master at finding anecdotes (he finds multiple examples where our system doesn't work) and drawing sweeping generalizations. Hell, he does the complete opposite in France, the UK, and Cuba (while trying to appear "suprised" whenever he hears how "good" the healthcare is in other countries). I had to contemplate my position for a while after leaving the theater, he does a very good job passionately supporting his viewpoint. I did have some gripes.

1. I'm concerned that people are going to watch this film as cannon, truth. I mean, there's plenty of truth to be found in this movie, but Moore presents twenty or thirty anecdotes of a failing healthcare system. This is sort of like me finding 20-30 UFO "abductees" (which, really wouldn't be all that difficult) and drawing the conclusion that this is sufficient evidence to conclude that UFOs are abducting people.

2. His only statistical argument is the WHO report that the US is number 37 in the world for health-care. This is a misleading statistic. The ranking is based upon criterion such as infant mortality, life expectancy, and mortality rates. Many of these have far more to do with lifestyle and social class than health care itself. As a current medical student and a former paramedic of 5 years, I have had the opportunity to work in hospitals abroad and domestic (in my case, the US). My experience has been while you can find reasonable healthcare in many westernized nations, there is nothing that the U.S. can't do as well or better. Procedurally and technologically our doctors are the most equipped, trained, and sucessful practicioners in the world. There's no mistake why 25% of Detroit receiving's emergency rooms are Canadians who are willing to pay a full price for our care.

3. He also makes the absurd claim that people are turned away from emergency treatment in the U.S. if they don't have the "right" insurance/no insurance. I've spent years in multiple hospitals defibrillating homless men out of life-threatening arrythmias, injecting narcan into impoverished narcotic overdose patients, assisting emergency c-sections on welfare mothers who certainly couldn't "afford" to pay for the procedure. Most people who need treatment will get it. And most people who can't pay wont. Hospitals loose multi-millions of dollars distributing effectively free healthcare for patients because we simply do [b]not[/b] turn away those people who have emergent needs. For Michael Moore to suggest this insults the medical professional community. He really should be ashamed of such a claim.

On the same line as boo... you should probably watch [u][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ifQj_v7va0"]this[/URL][/u]