Homosexuality: Discussion of

[Sandy]

[quote name='Gavin']
[SIZE="1"]You mean like men loving women and women loving men ? ;) I'm just kidding Sandy.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Heh, more like bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, transsexuality, transgenderism and hermaphroditism, just to mention a few... ;P

[Fyxe]

[quote name='Sandy']
Because homosexuality, and you can take this as a fact from a person who is a homosexual himself, is NOT just a sexual thing, it's NOT just an act. It really, truly is a way of life.

I'm not satisfied with just banging my boyfriend, not by far. I want to share my life with him, move in together, visit each other's families on holidays, see the world with him, and grow old with him by my side.

Now if someone would please tell me what's so wrong with wanting that with another person? And no, I won't take "because you both have penises" for an answer. ;P[/QUOTE]

[size=1]:)

Exactly. See, when people find out that I'm in love with a girl, they look at me and say, "But why?" That is honestly the dumbest question in the world to me. It would be exactly like me going up to a straight couple and saying, "But why? How can you love one another?"
But then, of course, people need to bring in the whole "it's a sin" thing. But how can loving someone be a sin? No matter who you are, you should be able to love who you love. Gender, race, appearence... none of that should matter. It's not an "unnatural sexual lust"... if you find a gay couple, they're there for the companionship and day-to-day relationship, not just the sexing. Just like heterosexuals.

But I guess, some people will never understand that. It's foreign to them, and different from what they consider normal. So of course that gives birth to fear or hatred. That's just human. Someone saying they don't understand homosexuality is exactly like me saying I don't understand religion. And I'm fine with that, as long as no one starts a riot on my doorstep. :p[/size]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][quote name='Sandy']Like Raiyuu has been noting in this thread already, people are posting oxymorons and paradoxes about hating homosexuality but having homosexual best friends. And [I]that[/I] is weird. How can you be friends with someone who lives in a way you think is appalling?

Because homosexuality, and you can take this as a fact from a person who is a homosexual himself, is NOT just a sexual thing, it's NOT just an act. It really, truly is a way of life.

I'm not satisfied with just banging my boyfriend, not by far. I want to share my life with him, move in together, visit each other's families on holidays, see the world with him, and grow old with him by my side.

Now if someone would please tell me what's so wrong with wanting that with another person? And no, I won't take "because you both have penises" for an answer. ;P[/QUOTE]It's not an oxymoron if you really think about it. For some getting past the I hate everything about homosexuality to [I]even though I don't like it I don't dislike the person [/I]is just another step on the path to true tolerance and acceptance of those who are different than you. ^_^ In other words they are trying to see beyond your sexual preference if you will.

Eventually I would like to see the acceptance become more broad and inclusive, but personally I'm just happy to see that people aren't just instantly disliking someone for being gay. I mean that is how you overcome such a difference of opinion right? You learn to on some level at least look the other way and quit trying to force your values on someone else.

Though I've long since left that behind. And sometimes I wonder why I even accepted that it was wrong to begin with. It all seems so silly now. lol [/COLOR]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Sandy']Heh, more like bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality, transsexuality, transgenderism and hermaphroditism, just to mention a few... ;P[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Of those six Sandy, three at max fall into somewhere between men loving men and women loving women. As for the other three, well asexuality falls completely out of bounds, and hermaphoritism and transgenderism are social movements. [/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="goldenrod"]It's not an oxymoron if you really think about it. For some getting past the I hate everything about homosexuality to [I]even though I don't like it I don't dislike the person [/I]is just another step on the path to true tolerance and acceptance of those who are different than you. ^_^ In other words they are trying to see beyond your sexual preference if you will.

Eventually I would like to see the acceptance become more broad and inclusive, but personally I'm just happy to see that people aren't just instantly disliking someone for being gay. I mean that is how you overcome such a difference of opinion right? You learn to on some level at least look the other way and quit trying to force your values on someone else.

Though I've long since left that behind. And sometimes I wonder why I even accepted that it was wrong to begin with. It all seems so silly now. lol [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]To quote every shonen anime ever 'they may not accept you, but if you refuse to accept them then you are just as bad'. So, to be a good person, you have to accept the beliefs of those who dislike you and stuff, right? And, like, you can't get mad at them for not being accepting, cuz then you're not being accepting.

Though if they never do come to acceptance, then you are forever pushed under, and if you aren't willing to wait you strike back. And thus war springs up and in the end the minority may be silenced or just struggle forever...

>_< human relations suck...[/COLOR]

[SunfallE]

[COLOR="goldenrod"][quote name='2007DigitalBoy'][COLOR="DarkOrange"]To quote every shonen anime ever 'they may not accept you, but if you refuse to accept them then you are just as bad'. So, to be a good person, you have to accept the beliefs of those who dislike you and stuff, right? And, like, you can't get mad at them for not being accepting, cuz then you're not being accepting.

Though if they never do come to acceptance, then you are forever pushed under, and if you aren't willing to wait you strike back. And thus war springs up and in the end the minority may be silenced or just struggle forever...

>_< human relations suck...[/COLOR][/QUOTE]Not exactly, I'm just saying that accepting others, especially when the difference is so profound, at least for some people, it does take time and more than an[I] instant total acceptance moment[/I]. ^_~ So even if it sounds bad, starting by not see a person as bad for being homosexual is a big step towards that total acceptance.

So if people are moving past the total dislike and towards the learning to like, then human relations don't suck after all. ^_~ Especially since you've moved beyond the [I]they must be bad for being gay [/I]to realizing they aren't any different than you are. At least not in a way that really matters. It really is a step by step process at times. And so long as people aren't stepping backwards, I think it's a good thing.[/COLOR]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="goldenrod"]Not exactly, I'm just saying that accepting others, especially when the difference is so profound, at least for some people, it does take time and more than an[I] instant total acceptance moment[/I]. ^_~ So even if it sounds bad, starting by not see a person as bad for being homosexual is a big step towards that total acceptance.

So if people are moving past the total dislike and towards the learning to like, then human relations don't suck after all. ^_~ Especially since you've moved beyond the [I]they must be bad for being gay [/I]to realizing they aren't any different than you are. At least not in a way that really matters. It really is a step by step process at times. And so long as people aren't stepping backwards, I think it's a good thing.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]True. There is a glimmer of hope, after all. Though this is also a small, mostly liberal internet forum - a poor representation of the country's opinion! There will always be those who are moe accepting, and those who refuse till their grave. There can never be 100 percent agreement. Conflict goes on eternal!

[IMG]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/MetalSonic700/zetsubouword.jpg[/IMG][/COLOR]

[Zen]

[color=darkred][size=1]

Atleast we now accept homosexuals people to be befriended instead of lynched. Things could be much worse. But then again, since homosexuality harms no one, I can't 'dislike' it or find it wrong in any sense. But I do understand how some people can find it wrong and still be friends with a homosexual. Just like I have friends who drink far too much and experiment with hard drugs. I'll be their friend, but I can't agree with some of the things they do. But then I'd be comparing homosexuality to harmful substance abuse, and I really can't do that, it's not even the same ball park.

Sandy's arguement makes the most sense. Homosexuality is more than just sexuality, but a way of living, just like being straight is a way of living for heterosexuals. It'd be like me saying in my previous statement that I was friends with crackheads and wife-beating alcoholics, which in reality, I never would be. So how can you disagree with a person's way of life and still be their friend, a true friend?

And for people still using the Bible as a reason, I still uphold that the Bible contradicts and argues against itself. For every reason you pull out that is religious, a person could bring up another one and say "well, here it says this". I'm sure there are other reasons that you feel the way you do beyond religion, and you'd find that they are illogical ones.[/color][/size]

[Dagger]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Of those six Sandy, three at max fall into somewhere between men loving men and women loving women. As for the other three, well asexuality falls completely out of bounds, and hermaphoritism and transgenderism are social movements. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Just wondering--and perhaps this is for both of you--why does something have to have a name & a specific definition in order to be real/valid/recognizable?

~Dagger~

[Gavin]

[quote name='Dagger']Just wondering--and perhaps this is for both of you--why does something have to have a name & a specific definition in order to be real/valid/recognizable?

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Perhaps I should have added a smiley to my last post, it was just a joke Dagger. :p[/SIZE]

[Dagger]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Perhaps I should have added a smiley to my last post, it was just a joke Dagger. :p[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
I can't say I get it, but each to his own. :whoops:

~Dagger~

[Gavin]

[quote name='Dagger']I can't say I get it, but each to his own. :whoops:

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Heh. Honestly on the whole labelling thing, I don't know if it's the sign of a rather mechanical mind, which I apparently have, but I normally find it easier to deal with concepts that have a set name and parameters.[/SIZE]

[Identity]

[quote name='Tombstone'][font=comic sans ms][color=blue][i]Leviticus 18:22. (Laws of Sexual Morality) You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.[/i] And if you flip ahead to 1st Corinthians 6:18 (Principles of Married Life), it says [i]Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.[/i]

I'm not going to act like I know all, but that really speaks for itself.[/font][/color][/QUOTE]
Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

These two verses are widely misunderstood. In this particular part of the bible, the Isrealites had just been liberated from 400 years of slavery and ventured to the land of Canaan under the leadership of Moses. Many Canaanites worshipped a diety known as Baal. Many Baal-worshippers regularly performed Male homosexual sex as a fertillity ritual. Apparently, the Isrealites werent supposed to take on any one elses religious practices. In any case, these two verses were intended to convey to the ancient Israelites that they were to be pure in their worship of their God (that is, they were to avoid taking on anybody else?s religious practices), no extraordinary meaning in today?s society can be found here. Finally, these verses make no mention whatsoever of lesbian sex, any true condemnation of homosexuality from God Himself would obviously include lesbians as well as gay men

So there you have it. Eating Shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed materials,Tattoos, Shaving your sideburns, and eating meat with blood in it (Im sure some of you fundamentalist Christians occasionaly enoy a rare steak) are also condemned in Leviticus, but no ones gives a **** about them.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Identity']So there you have it. Eating Shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed materials,Tattoos, Shaving your sideburns, and eating meat with blood in it (Im sure some of you fundamentalist Christians occasionaly enoy a rare steak) are also condemned in Leviticus, but no ones gives a **** about them.[/QUOTE]

[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Hey, you forgot the verses about menstrating women and not touching the skin of a pig. So that means that all (American) football players are sinners... not just that one who was arrested for dog fighting.[/color][/font]

[Identity]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman'][color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Hey, you forgot the verses about menstrating women and not touching the skin of a pig. So that means that all (American) football players are sinners... not just that one who was arrested for dog fighting.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]
Well, I would've included those verses, but I actually believe that part of leviticus, everyone knows natural bodily functions and emissions such as menstration are disgusting and unclean. :laugh:

[Metalcore501]

I have a question and would like to know your views and thoughts on my past.

I'm Bi-sexual and about 6 months ago my boyfriend and I broke up, know like any other relationship I took it very hard for we had been intamite with each other and he being my first it made it even harder for me. So time went on and he began saying things like "I was never Bi" and "I'm a homophobe", now many of his friends and I alike thought he was trying to cover himself up for what he did and get on with his life. I can accept that but what I cant accept is the way he had treated me afterwards, about 2 months after our break up he started seeing this other girl. He said he loved her more than anything els in the world, which of course tore me apart inside. None the less he and I tried to become friends, so I went over to his house to hang out and about 2 hours or so he and I were having sex! Then at school the next day he treated me even worse than before, now he and I are friends and trying to restore ouir friendship and I don't say anything to him about our past togeher well at least I don't try. But in my heart I still believe he is the same way.

So what do you guys think?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Identity']Well, I would've included those verses, but I actually believe that part of leviticus, everyone knows natural bodily functions and emissions such as menstration are disgusting and unclean. :laugh:[/QUOTE]


[color=#9933ff][font=lucida calligraphy]Yeah I'd better cancel that trip to Toronto in October. Wouldn't want to make it a double sin. :animeblus[/color][/font]

[Fyxe]

[quote name='Metalcore501']I have a question and would like to know your views and thoughts on my past.

I'm Bi-sexual and about 6 months ago my boyfriend and I broke up, know like any other relationship I took it very hard for we had been intamite with each other and he being my first it made it even harder for me. So time went on and he began saying things like "I was never Bi" and "I'm a homophobe", now many of his friends and I alike thought he was trying to cover himself up for what he did and get on with his life. I can accept that but what I cant accept is the way he had treated me afterwards, about 2 months after our break up he started seeing this other girl. He said he loved her more than anything els in the world, which of course tore me apart inside. None the less he and I tried to become friends, so I went over to his house to hang out and about 2 hours or so he and I were having sex! Then at school the next day he treated me even worse than before, now he and I are friends and trying to restore ouir friendship and I don't say anything to him about our past togeher well at least I don't try. But in my heart I still believe he is the same way.

So what do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

[size=1]It sounds like he is unsure of himself. Perhaps the fact that being attracted to other men is an unpleasant thought to him, and he doesn't want to admit to his own sexuality. He doesn't want to be ridiculed, and is apprehensive about accepting it. This can be very frustrating, so it sounds like he is taking it out on you.

It seems he is attracted to you, and cares for you, but is uncomfortable to admit it. So he is making excuses and saying it was a mistake.

I am sorry, that must be hell to deal with. :( But, if my assumptions are correct, he's going thru hell himself, even if he looks like the selfish one getting out worry-free.[/size]

[Gavin]

[quote name='Identity']So there you have it. Eating Shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed materials, Tattoos, Shaving your sideburns, and eating meat with blood in it (I'm sure some of you fundamentalist Christians occasionally enjoy a rare steak) are also condemned in Leviticus, but no ones gives a **** about them.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Wow, out of all five of those, I'm not in breach of any of them as:

[list][*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]I'm allergic to shellfish, finding that out the hard way in Australia last year.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Haven't got any tattoos.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Always have meat cooked to "well done", especially steak.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Haven't shaved in about a week.[/SIZE][/FONT][/list]

And

[list][*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Am currently wearing only a cotton shorts and t-shirt set (Homer Simpson FTW).[/SIZE][/FONT][/list]

Hah, better luck next time Levictus.[/SIZE]

[Nerdsy]

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"][*][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]Haven't shaved in about a week.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[color=deeppink]If you've done it even once, it still counts. Leviticus wins.[/color]

[KingEarthEater]

Wow... we live in the new testament. Which means that we are under a new covenent... So the old testament is there to see where Christianity came from. Not to take the rules from then and bring them into today. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Jesus in the new testament to die for our sins that we couldn't have done anything about in the old testament. Gah, thought this was common knowledge (just kidding... a little).

Just thought it was right to say that.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Nerdsy'][color=deeppink]If you've done it even once, it still counts. Leviticus wins.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="1"]Bah. Well four out of five isn't bad.[/SIZE]

[Darren]

[quote name='Identity']So there you have it. Eating Shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed materials,Tattoos, Shaving your sideburns, and eating meat with blood in it (Im sure some of you fundamentalist Christians occasionaly enoy a rare steak) are also condemned in Leviticus, but no ones gives a **** about them.[/QUOTE]
But Leviticus is in the Old Testament... Of course the verse provided in 1 Corinthians is very much "up to date" so to speak. As far as eating shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed materials, etc...

Forgive me, I've been absent for 3 days, I haven't had a chance to chatch up, but where did you get that out of those verses? Meh, I guess that's why religion gets so screwed up; translation throws a loop at everyone.

Not to mention, there's the whole conspiracy that some books were left out and certain verses omitted. (And I'm not talking about The Davinci Code) And it's believable considering that it was only written by humans...

[Identity]

Well I [I]was[/I] gonna tell you were I got those verses, but I'd rather you go and read the book of Leviticus yourself and find out. And besides, were I got them is beside the the point, I was just saying, Christians shouldn't condemn Homosexuality because of the statement made in Leviticus 18:22, because they don't follow anything else in Leviticus. And, like KingEarthEater said, Christians aren't even supposed to follow what was said in the old testament. Now, damn all of you to hell for making an atheist read the bible. :)

[Sojiro47]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]I'd rather that nobody here got damned to Hell, even if it's for making an atheist read a Bible. But I agree, Christians have no place in the condemnation of anything. Christians are told in the Bible that the only humans permited to pass judgement on others are those given the duty by the law of the land. They (Christians) may not tell people that they are going to Hell, because they do not have the authority to decide who goes where. What they [I]may[/I] do, however, is tell homosexuals that they don't condole their actions and sexual preferances, abd then explain why. But they shouldn't condemn or discriminate against [B]anybody[/B], including homosexuals.[/FONT]